i am still trying to get over the aquarius aship 2 times the size of a large runabout and it is a destroyer in what universe maybe a raider i might by even a heavy raider or call it a gun boat but a destroyer of what exactly. yes the eclipse is a battlecruiser in all but name and lack of a battle cloak
and the intel powers make up for lack of tac consoles which hopefully will be addresed in fleet variant. but fed players for the most part believe in the current timeline it only makes sense that starfleet would make a few true warship designs
i am still trying to get over the aquarius aship 2 times the size of a large runabout and it is a destroyer in what universe maybe a raider i might by even a heavy raider or call it a gun boat but a destroyer of what exactly. yes the eclipse is a battlecruiser in all but name and lack of a battle cloak
and the intel powers make up for lack of tac consoles which hopefully will be addresed in fleet variant. but fed players for the most part believe in the current timeline it only makes sense that starfleet would make a few true warship designs
As a general rule only KDF BoPs and Romulan Warbirds have a Battle Cloak.
The KDF QiB T6 Intel Battlecruiser is the only exception to the rule at the moment, and it was only added with Delta Rising.
why not? the only things feds do not have are a battlecruiser and a warbird both with battle cloack. Give them those ships and delete kdf and romulan faction because now obsolete.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
why not? the only things feds do not have are a battlecruiser and a warbird both with battle cloack. Give them those ships and delete kdf and romulan faction because now obsolete.
That would actually make sense, and I'm not joking.
The faction gameplay has been abandoned. Just call the player faction "alliance" and join all races together in there with no restrictions on which ship they comand (KDF for feds and vice versa, and romulans for all).
No, I'm dead serious. They don't develop anything not cross faction anymore (aside from fed ships), so why bother?
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I think you KDF's and Fed min/maxers are missing the point
The Eclipse looks like a POS...............piece of salvage :P
That's why a lot of people don't like it the same way a lot dont like the avenger and both ships are to small for there power
smaller and more powerful makes no common sense to most people as is right and logical in the real world
this has always been a issue in this game created by its designers and its escort classes the first time they turned canon upside down
bop with more firepower than a Neg'Var.........patethic nonsense
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
where? I want one! (because guess what-It doesn't Exist).
Quick primer for you...
Bird of Prey: 4 weapons fore, 2 Weps aft.
Negh'var : 4 weapons fore, 4 weapons aft
Now, I CAN spike higher with a BoP-if I put everything into it. Most Bird of Prey: 3 tac consoles, feeding 6 weapons total, and unless you're a Crafting Mastah, two of those are turrets-among the weakest weapons in the game if you want that firepower going forward with the rest.
But that spike is once per decloaking pass, relies on the pilot being a Tac, using APO,plus APA, Plus Tactical Fleet, plus the Decloaking bonus.
for one shot, probably using Beam overload 2 or 3, plus CRF2 or 3, plus THY2 if it's got a torpedo on the front end, with weapons batteries if you think you can take the target in one go, or you sacrifice that for an engine battery, or you fill that second item space with Deuterium Surplus, and you'll need to be using Injectors from the Fleet Store.
Because if he gets a lock on you, you're dead before you can decloak if you don't kill him right-the-hell away..
from behind, meaning your pass is going to put your less-defended TRIBBLE in front of his main guns if he doesn't die immediately.
That's your "Greater Firepower"-it requires timing, a specific build, the right bridge officers, and there's no 'survivability' to sacrifice on a BoP.
It's either succeed, or die.
now, the Negh'var, it can take it's time, it can sit there and chew an opponent apart at leisure, with the right build. and it can take hits.
you missed my point I think good sir
A BOP should not be able to scratch a Neg'Var or even have 1/10th of a Neg'Vars firepower was my point
That's what I ment by STO turning canon upside down
I completely understand how the game mechanics work and I appreciate your feedback
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
A BOP should not be able to scratch a Neg'Var or even have 1/10th of a Neg'Vars firepower was my point
That's what I ment by STO turning canon upside down
I completely understand how the game mechanics work and I appreciate your feedback
This right here. STO is in it's basic design utterly inappropriate for a Star Trek game. A Galaxy class and it's Klingon counterpart, the Negh'Var, should be amongst the ships with the biggest frepower available and frigate sized ships like bops or defiants should not be able to face ships mch bigger than they are without support - that's better portrayed in the Academy games or Bridge Commander. STO however was designed to be an arcade shooter built around a single player campaign which was meant to be beatable with a BOP or a Galaxy class - without changing the missions *at all*, including spawned enemies.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
This right here. STO is in it's basic design utterly inappropriate for a Star Trek game. A Galaxy class and it's Klingon counterpart, the Negh'Var, should be amongst the ships with the biggest frepower available and frigate sized ships like bops or defiants should not be able to face ships mch bigger than they are without support - that's better portrayed in the Academy games or Bridge Commander. STO however was designed to be an arcade shooter built around a single player campaign which was meant to be beatable with a BOP or a Galaxy class - without changing the missions *at all*, including spawned enemies.
This is well said. Think of Star Trek Generations(terrible, I know)....The Durass Sisters would never have gone toe to toe with a Galaxy Class Starship in their BOP. They knew they were no match for them as they stated to Soran loudly. It was only by giving Laforge his visor with an implanted video stream that they were able to bypass the shields by matching a torpedo to the shield frequency. I think from that point the movie want too far. I believe Data would have realized that the shields were compromised and recommended a rotation of the frequency. This was a poor send off for the galaxy class. At least they didn't have the BOP destroy it under its own power.
I believe the Defiant is an exception. She is supposed to have a specialized hull designed to take hits. She was built to defend against the Borg. Many times the Defiant went against ships larger than herself. For her size, she was overpowered.
However, I agree with the post regarding the cruisers. The large crusier should have some of the best firepower. They have the largest warp cores and therefore have more power overall to dish out. This is also why its shields are much stronger than say a frigate.
So this is why in general Larger is better. More hull. More power from the Warp Core. Better Class of phasers due to the necessary power to be able to use them. At the time of TNG, the Galaxy had the highest class of phaser armament. Galaxy vs Miranda...should be no contest for example. Miranda vs Romulan Warbird. Bye Bye Miranda. However, in this game I can beat a Warbird in a Miranda. A Galaxy was a match for 1 Warbird in TNG. It would not come out of that fight without some wounds.
The Eclipse doesn't interest me. So, stop saying how great it is. I don't care.
I also don't care about the "name" Cyptic gives a cruiser. It doesn't make the cruiser any better.
OP - you do need to care when you atsrt a topic like this.
By the numbers, the Eclipse *is* a very good cruiser. Matched with Intel abilities, it performs extremely well in a cruiser-like role while being able to cough out amazing amounts of firepower with pre-upgraded gear. In the hands of a skilled pilot it's likely to be apocalyptic. You shouldn't tell people in your thread to stop mentioning it: the facts speak the truth about the Eclipse.
As for the name of a ship type, that matters as well. "What's in a name..." ... everything. You would not have started this thread if the current "battlecruiser" didn't fit your schema of the type.
OP - you do need to care when you atsrt a topic like this.
By the numbers, the Eclipse *is* a very good cruiser. Matched with Intel abilities, it performs extremely well in a cruiser-like role while being able to cough out amazing amounts of firepower with pre-upgraded gear. In the hands of a skilled pilot it's likely to be apocalyptic. You shouldn't tell people in your thread to stop mentioning it: the facts speak the truth about the Eclipse.
As for the name of a ship type, that matters as well. "What's in a name..." ... everything. You would not have started this thread if the current "battlecruiser" didn't fit your schema of the type.
Of course you can have your opinion on the Eclipse. Those who love it...enjoy! I am glad you got a ship you love.
However, explain to me why the Ody is not a T6? She is the class of the Flagship. Why would the Flagship not be outfitted with the latest and greatest? It deserves more than a T5U.
In my opinion, I would rather have a T6 Ody than an Eclipse. It just looks closer to what the Sovereign would progress to and actually something Starfleet would produce. I mean it is the newest Enterprise. I believe CBS/Paramount had to sign off before they could even call it "Enterprise".
A whole new ship would be the second option. Many people support the Typhoon, for example. I don't like the default deflector dish, but usually you get a couple choices on each ship type they introduce.
Yes, looks matter to me (size/design/hull type) if I am dropping $30 of real money for a ship.
Of course, looks alone don't make the ship. It would be worthless if it looks awesome, but doesn't have the performance to match.
The name alone doesn't make the ship...if it is awesome...then it is awesome. So slapping the name dreadnought/battlecrusier/battleship won't necessarily cause me to purchase the ship. I would have bought the Avenger if that was the case.
NO..... NO MORE SHIPS FOR THE FEDS UNTIL THEY CATCH UP ON THE OTHER TWO FACTIONS.
the Fed side just got SIX (6) new ships, compared to two each for the Klingon and Romulan. The game is already over-weighted on the Fed side. Time to allow the game to re-balance post DR.
NO..... NO MORE SHIPS FOR THE FEDS UNTIL THEY CATCH UP ON THE OTHER TWO FACTIONS.
the Fed side just got SIX (6) new ships, compared to two each for the Klingon and Romulan. The game is already over-weighted on the Fed side. Time to allow the game to re-balance post DR.
May as well wish for unicorns and polite people. It'd be nice but we know it won't happen.
At the very least let us all recognize the gift the OP has given us for the holidays. Federation, Klingons, and Romulans, all coming together as one, voices in chorus, to sing "seriously OP, WTF are you smoking?"
Escorts should never deal more damage than a cruiser in canon unless the cruiser is 80 years old or something like that.
first, a lot of things are not canon... however attack ships are canon since the defiant appeared in ds9 and was presented as a ship designed to deal massive damage in a was. Cruisers in star trek were never intended to be used for war but exploration.
second, if you create "attack ships" as alternative to "cruisers" and "science vessels", if you create dhcs as alternative (dealing more damage) to beam arrays (and equippable only on attack ships), then attack ships (equiped with dhcs) shoul be exactally what the name says: attack ships, the best way for dealing massive damage.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
however attack ships are canon since the defiant appeared in ds9 and was presented as a ship designed to deal massive damage in a was. Cruisers in star trek were never intended to be used for war but exploration.
second, if you create "attack ships" as alternative to "cruisers" and "science vessels", if you create dhcs as alternative (dealing more damage) to beam arrays (and equippable only on attack ships), then attack ships (equiped with dhcs) shoul be exactally what the name says: attack ships, the best way for dealing massive damage.
But this is a - let's call it "myth" - that is brought up ever again and, once again, people are confused because of the terminology used.
Yes, the Defiant was a "warship" - now, jaws drop because "WAAAAGHship! That destwoys EVERYTHING!" - no. The Defiant was designed as a response to the Borg, that is true. But we can safely assume that a Defiant class was NOT meant to substitute for cruisers and trash Borg cubes like STO suggests. In-canon we don't see the Defiant engage ships out of it's own weightclass with two exceptions and those show that the ship can pull some magic, but not decide the battle on it's own. It is far more likely that the thought behind it was to maximize weapons and minimize crew and targetable are at the same time, since the (nu)-Borg feast on a ship's crew (the more crew the more drones) and have no problem disposing of large cruisers in short time (both original and nu-borg). So it's more likely to think of the Defiant as a Starfleet adapted B'Rel BOP. You use a swarm of those ships to engage Borg to maximize chances and efficiency - not a single Defiant to decide an entire battle.
And again, you assume that because a cruiser is an "Explorer" it means it cannot fight. Starfleet cruisers are designed to function on their own and explore deep space which houses countless unknown dangers from petty pirates to omnipotent gods with the cpability of defending itself at least until help arrives. The Galaxy class featured so much firepower that it repeatedly upset first contact aliens that thought Starfleet just put the meanest doombringer in front of them to threaten them into cooperation. Exploration in the Star Tre sense is dangerous and all those cruisers are equipped to be armed and equipped to the maximum capability and state of the art technology. Now, group those ships together and a fleet and you have a very potent force of "battleships" - after all, the UFP waged so many wars and always got out on top. Now, those ships are indeed not battlecruisers, but they are more than capable to fight with some differences. Battlecruisers, like the Klingons use them, are not designed to operate alone. With the exception of the Negh'Var, all Klingon ships operate in pairs or swarms. Starfleet cruisers are by design meant to operate alone which is why their defensive capabilities are better while their manoeuvreability lacks (the Ambassador was more manoeuvreable than Klingon ships of it's time, but the Vor'Cha most likely changed that later on). In short, a Galaxy class would be a steamroller in a combat situation while a Vor'Cha or Sovereign would probably better of flanking.
Now, back to STO - of course "attack ships" should deal damage, but there had to be trade-offs. If you would be true to canon that would mean if you play a "attack ship" you would be screwed when you face a large cruiser, but if that cruiser is bound in combat by another cruiser you would flank and use all kind of strategy. STO doesn't know trade-offs. Escorts just have the same number of wapons up front as cruisers have, plus more damage potential but only a minimum of lesser survivability which, after all the power creep, doesn't even matter anymore. The plus in hull and shield a cruiser has is completely nullified by the plus in damage a escort dishes out.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
first, a lot of things are not canon... however attack ships are canon since the defiant appeared in ds9 and was presented as a ship designed to deal massive damage in a was. Cruisers in star trek were never intended to be used for war but exploration.
second, if you create "attack ships" as alternative to "cruisers" and "science vessels", if you create dhcs as alternative (dealing more damage) to beam arrays (and equippable only on attack ships), then attack ships (equiped with dhcs) shoul be exactally what the name says: attack ships, the best way for dealing massive damage.
I simply cannot believe you said that. Really. I can't. It simply amazes me. Cruisers are the backbone of real fighting strength to the various navies in Star Trek. The Constitution, Excelsior, Galaxy, Sovereign class Cruisers were the epitome of the best of Starfleet's technology and combat capability when they were introduced. Starfleet and the Federation and guys like Picard really like to talk up the Exploration aspects, but the truth is that Starfleet, it's personnel, and its ships were built first and foremost to defend the Federation. And Cruisers like those I listed were the backbone of that heavier fighting strength. Small vessels made the bulk of the fleet. You can't have the entire fleet made up of something like Sovereigns and Galaxies due to the prohibitive costs and numbers required. But the smaller vessels do the bulk of various duties as needed of any of the navies. But when things got serious, when one of the major powers like the Federation, Klingons, Romulans had to "show the flag" with strength, they sent a large ship. They sent a Cruiser.
Now, how STO goes around goofily depicting this is an entirely different matter. But in general in Star Trek, the bigger the ship, the more power overall. In terms of capability, staying power, firepower, Cruisers had them. The Defiant was the only thing that broke that tradition throughout the entirety of Star Trek. That thing was protected by Plot Armor Mk XX until the movie "First Contact" and it was WTFpwned by the Borg. It was about to ram the cube until... a Sovereign-class Cruiser comes in gloriously to save the day.
The first important thing is that the tv series and the game are totally different, even if the game is inspired to the series.
The series is just about the federation and from a "federal point of view"... the federation is not an expanding empire but an alliance and the tipical mission of captains are diplomatic and exploration. Remember the words "These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before." and in an episode of TNG (I do not remember what) Picard says that the enterprise was not intended to be used in war.
That is, all the tv series are talking about the federation as a fleet involved in exploration first of all... even if cruisers are powerfull ships.
that said, the game is a lot different... in the game we have different ships (and weapons) because when the game was designed devs wanted roles: science vessels were what in an other game are mages, cruisers were healers and tankers, escorts the warriors...
this until the introduction of ships like the scimitar and mechanics that combined to BFaW let you deal so much dps (in a so easy way) that no matter what ship you fly, no need to tank, no need to heal, no need to target, no need to be a good pilot... just click and see the magic of a scenario cleared in a few seconds. Being a good pilot, choosing a certain ship... is only required if you want to deal a never seen dps
However, we are going off topic...
IMHO if you want federal battleships, universal cruisers, or whatever you want... I do not care, but STO actually is totally unbalanced: we have 3 factions (well, the romulan one is just half a faction) but devs are developing only for one and that faction has the 95% of what there is in the game. That is IMO wrong, totally wrong... It's wrong because many players for years have spent time (and also money) to play as kdf and now are totally left behind, It's wrong because there is no need to have multiple toons if the game evolves in a way where you do not need to play a role and/or teamworking... There is no challenge when you can destroy many many ships in a while, just using one ability and a few mechanics. No fun when you, me and all the players just play the same role
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
first, a lot of things are not canon... however attack ships are canon since the defiant appeared in ds9 and was presented as a ship designed to deal massive damage in a was. Cruisers in star trek were never intended to be used for war but exploration.
second, if you create "attack ships" as alternative to "cruisers" and "science vessels", if you create dhcs as alternative (dealing more damage) to beam arrays (and equippable only on attack ships), then attack ships (equiped with dhcs) shoul be exactally what the name says: attack ships, the best way for dealing massive damage.
Very true the defiant class was a short range attack ship designed to be produced in numbers to defend earth from the borg because it packed the most in the smallest hull with the smallest crew for the least cost.
No long range supplies or crew comforts or medical needs required they were to remain at there post or warp to where needed....All of the things the ship lacked could be supplied from earth or where ever it was stationed
Like a pit Bull on a leash...............in no way other than defense duty could it hope to replace a cruiser it didn't even have the firepower or defense of a cruiser it would take several to equal one that's why there were cheep/disposable
Human cost...you could crew 8 defiants for the human cost of 1 Galaxy class.....That is a huge win right there and makes the defiant very desirable for defense
The most expensive thing on a starship is its crew and the hardest to replace in war
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
The first important thing is that the tv series and the game are totally different, even if the game is inspired to the series.
The series is just about the federation and from a "federal point of view"... the federation is not an expanding empire but an alliance and the tipical mission of captains are diplomatic and exploration. Remember the words "These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before." and in an episode of TNG (I do not remember what) Picard says that the enterprise was not intended to be used in war.
That is, all the tv series are talking about the federation as a fleet involved in exploration first of all... even if cruisers are powerfull ships.
[/COLOR]
You're in the same camp Gene Rodenberry was in: He insisted that Starfleet was not a military organization and its purpose is a peaceful one. That's an outright lie just going by what goes on the shows, even sticking to TOS only.
You are confusing one of the few missions that is popularized with the TV shows with what Starfleet is primarily about. Those long ranged, long endurance exploration missions are a feature mission done by Starfleet. But they're not fulfilling the primary purpose of the fleet. Starfleet, like its competing navies of Star Trek, is responsible for the defense of the Federation. They have ships patrolling their part of the varied "Neutral Zones." They have ships ready to act in case of breaches of those said Neutral Zones. You have ships patrolling Federation space to maintain security. You have ships doing exploration missions. You have ships dispatched to deal with a crisis.
Starfleet's ships are in general, ALL warships. For far too many times, Starfleet has found itself fighting the Federations wars, despite the Federation's "peaceful" talks with expansionist imperialism (hehe, that's another thread right there). Throughout the various Star Trek series, there have been many allusions to historical brush fires, skirmishes, outright wars. The Federation itself was formed originally as a military alliance against a far larger threat. In TOS, we hear of the cataclysmic "Earth Romulan War" almost a century prior to the events of TOS. In TOS, the Federation and Klingons had constantly been at odds. In one event, both powers were again on the verge of war. Starfleet diverted the Enterprise to Organia to leverage a Federation advantage there before the Klingons do, and both powers were frothing at the mouth to prepare for the impending war. In TNG there had several episodes dealing with the Federation-Cardassian War previous to the events of the show with some members of the Enterprise being veterans of that war. Also in TNG, there was an episode in dealing with the Shelliak, a power the Federation had a brief war with until peace was settled, and the Enterprise was dispatched in dealing with a crisis that could easily get into a shooting war with a ship capable of handling a fight if it needed to. In DS9 we find the Federation suddenly embroiled in a truly cataclysmic war, the Dominion War, that pushed everything into military service.
In short, the point is that Starfleet finds itself all too often in a fight. Whether it's a skirmish here, small conflicts, or large scale wars. It doesn't get the luxury of dictating when the fighting begins. All it can do is prepare for it. Just like the Klingons and Romulans traditionally had an arms race with each other, to include the larger Federation. And with fighting potentially occurring at any time, the fleet in general is prepared and capable to fight.
To say Starfleet doesn't design its ships to be ready for war at any time and only for the purpose of exploration and diplomacy is ridiculous.
You're in the same camp Gene Rodenberry was in: He insisted that Starfleet was not a military organization and its purpose is a peaceful one. That's an outright lie just going by what goes on the shows, even sticking to TOS only.
Starfleet is not a military in present days sense. It's Starfleet. It's credo is "Ex Astris, scientia", it's primary mission is exploration. It's military functions are of course also part of their profile, but Starfleet Officers function like minutemen in that regard. Defense is one of their missions, but not their primary function. The mindset behind Starfleet is different: While the US Navy for example does also conduct civil operations but is a military primarily with Starfleet it's the other way around. It's just the mindset you need your head wrapped around.
To say Starfleet doesn't design its ships to be ready for war at any time and only for the purpose of exploration and diplomacy is ridiculous.
That however is true, every Starfleet ship is armed to it's teeth, relative to it's class and function. Because neither Exploration, nor Diplomacy is a "safe" business. Exploration is NOT a peaceful, pacifistic mission, it's hilariously dangerous venturing into deep space, that's what all the guns are for.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Starfleet is a general service organization, and has several missions; exploration, diplomacy, humanitarian aide, intelligence gathering, colonization, pure research, law enforcement, and yes military defense. It carries out those missions simultaneously and many of those missions require a ship to be able to defend itself or others. So of course ships are armed, but that doesn't mean that Starfleet is "primarily" a military organization.
The fact that there are so few purpose built ships (the Oberth and Defiant are the only canon examples I can think of) shows that none of Starfleet's missions are mutually exclusive. That's why cruisers are the main vessels employed by Starfleet. They have the size and resources to handle whatever circumstances a particular missions might require and then move on to the next mission that may well require a whole new set of requirements. A Galaxy class is a warship...and an explorer...and a hospital ship...and a research vessel...and a mobile conference center...etc.
Given that we are currently in a pro-specialist/anti-generalist age that philosophy is sometimes hard for people to understand. That appreciating is made even harder in STO when when the lore is so at odds with the game experience. Starfleet's purpose is to do whatever the Federation needs doing, but unfortunately all STO really requires is "pew, pew."
You're in the same camp Gene Rodenberry was in: He insisted that Starfleet was not a military organization and its purpose is a peaceful one. That's an outright lie just going by what goes on the shows, even sticking to TOS only.
You are confusing one of the few missions that is popularized with the TV shows with what Starfleet is primarily about. Those long ranged, long endurance exploration missions are a feature mission done by Starfleet. But they're not fulfilling the primary purpose of the fleet. Starfleet, like its competing navies of Star Trek, is responsible for the defense of the Federation. They have ships patrolling their part of the varied "Neutral Zones." They have ships ready to act in case of breaches of those said Neutral Zones. You have ships patrolling Federation space to maintain security. You have ships doing exploration missions. You have ships dispatched to deal with a crisis.
Starfleet's ships are in general, ALL warships. For far too many times, Starfleet has found itself fighting the Federations wars, despite the Federation's "peaceful" talks with expansionist imperialism (hehe, that's another thread right there). Throughout the various Star Trek series, there have been many allusions to historical brush fires, skirmishes, outright wars. The Federation itself was formed originally as a military alliance against a far larger threat. In TOS, we hear of the cataclysmic "Earth Romulan War" almost a century prior to the events of TOS. In TOS, the Federation and Klingons had constantly been at odds. In one event, both powers were again on the verge of war. Starfleet diverted the Enterprise to Organia to leverage a Federation advantage there before the Klingons do, and both powers were frothing at the mouth to prepare for the impending war. In TNG there had several episodes dealing with the Federation-Cardassian War previous to the events of the show with some members of the Enterprise being veterans of that war. Also in TNG, there was an episode in dealing with the Shelliak, a power the Federation had a brief war with until peace was settled, and the Enterprise was dispatched in dealing with a crisis that could easily get into a shooting war with a ship capable of handling a fight if it needed to. In DS9 we find the Federation suddenly embroiled in a truly cataclysmic war, the Dominion War, that pushed everything into military service.
In short, the point is that Starfleet finds itself all too often in a fight. Whether it's a skirmish here, small conflicts, or large scale wars. It doesn't get the luxury of dictating when the fighting begins. All it can do is prepare for it. Just like the Klingons and Romulans traditionally had an arms race with each other, to include the larger Federation. And with fighting potentially occurring at any time, the fleet in general is prepared and capable to fight.
To say Starfleet doesn't design its ships to be ready for war at any time and only for the purpose of exploration and diplomacy is ridiculous.
You are both correct. Remember when Picard said in Insurrection: Can anyone remember when we were explorers? In TNG, they were primarily explorers, but ready to take the fight to anyone who challenged the Feds. The Galaxy had the best the Federation had at the time.
With the Enterprise E, it was a cruiser but she had teeth. She was sleek and more manuverable than the Galaxy. As you said, the E swooped in and save the day in First Contact. I think the Soverign is underpowered in the game. However, it has been like 30 years since the last trek movie in the game.
Starfleet used its ships until they were dead. They would refit anything that could move. The Excelsior class was used in TNG and DS9(probably because they had a working model...cheaper production). Many people love their Excelsior in game. From what people have said, it sounds like she is pretty tough and can dish it out.
The Lakota was upgraded and fought the Defiant. The Captain could have destroyed the Defiant with Quantum Torps, but let it go. Two phaser hits from the Lakota dropped the Defiant to 60% shields.
So, a 30 year old ship like the Soveign should still be a force to be reckoned with. However, I never got the feeling that it was in game. I got the Ody a while back and it really was a waste of money. I didn't think it was much better than the Sov other than the stronger hull. These issues are probably more due to the balance issues in the game than anything.
You're in the same camp Gene Rodenberry was in: He insisted that Starfleet was not a military organization and its purpose is a peaceful one. That's an outright lie just going by what goes on the shows, even sticking to TOS only.
You are confusing one of the few missions that is popularized with the TV shows with what Starfleet is primarily about. Those long ranged, long endurance exploration missions are a feature mission done by Starfleet. But they're not fulfilling the primary purpose of the fleet. Starfleet, like its competing navies of Star Trek, is responsible for the defense of the Federation. They have ships patrolling their part of the varied "Neutral Zones." They have ships ready to act in case of breaches of those said Neutral Zones. You have ships patrolling Federation space to maintain security. You have ships doing exploration missions. You have ships dispatched to deal with a crisis.
Starfleet's ships are in general, ALL warships. For far too many times, Starfleet has found itself fighting the Federations wars, despite the Federation's "peaceful" talks with expansionist imperialism (hehe, that's another thread right there). Throughout the various Star Trek series, there have been many allusions to historical brush fires, skirmishes, outright wars. The Federation itself was formed originally as a military alliance against a far larger threat. In TOS, we hear of the cataclysmic "Earth Romulan War" almost a century prior to the events of TOS. In TOS, the Federation and Klingons had constantly been at odds. In one event, both powers were again on the verge of war. Starfleet diverted the Enterprise to Organia to leverage a Federation advantage there before the Klingons do, and both powers were frothing at the mouth to prepare for the impending war. In TNG there had several episodes dealing with the Federation-Cardassian War previous to the events of the show with some members of the Enterprise being veterans of that war. Also in TNG, there was an episode in dealing with the Shelliak, a power the Federation had a brief war with until peace was settled, and the Enterprise was dispatched in dealing with a crisis that could easily get into a shooting war with a ship capable of handling a fight if it needed to. In DS9 we find the Federation suddenly embroiled in a truly cataclysmic war, the Dominion War, that pushed everything into military service.
In short, the point is that Starfleet finds itself all too often in a fight. Whether it's a skirmish here, small conflicts, or large scale wars. It doesn't get the luxury of dictating when the fighting begins. All it can do is prepare for it. Just like the Klingons and Romulans traditionally had an arms race with each other, to include the larger Federation. And with fighting potentially occurring at any time, the fleet in general is prepared and capable to fight.
To say Starfleet doesn't design its ships to be ready for war at any time and only for the purpose of exploration and diplomacy is ridiculous.
the first starfleet ship, the fist enterprise was intented as exploration ship... it had no weapon at all, just a few "marines". Only when it was obvious that explorating the deep space, contacting others civilizations was not always safe they started to install weapons on the ship.
As other players wrote, starflit is not a military organization in the way we intend in real life... lawstanz, angrytarg and papesh1 had explained this better then me, so I will not tell anything more about this.
What is important now, is that STO is based on the series, but is also very different... It's really a nonsense talking about what is canon and what not at the moment... It's important talking about what we need to have a balanced and funny game, what is currently wrong and what is good. I think we have 3 faction (2.5 to be onest, imho) and that faction should have the same attention by devs... currently fed have 90% of what we can have/do in this game, while 2 faction have really no attention... it's time to change if we do not want our toons being very similar and no difference playing as fed, kdf or romulan.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
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and the intel powers make up for lack of tac consoles which hopefully will be addresed in fleet variant. but fed players for the most part believe in the current timeline it only makes sense that starfleet would make a few true warship designs
As a general rule only KDF BoPs and Romulan Warbirds have a Battle Cloak.
The KDF QiB T6 Intel Battlecruiser is the only exception to the rule at the moment, and it was only added with Delta Rising.
With all the ships the Feds have gotten, quite a number of which are fabulous, they're not considered "warship" designs?
Can people look at the Sovereign/Regent, Excelsior, Tempest, Avenger, Intel Ship Stats, etc, and honestly tell me that they're not "warships?"
Should we rename some ships to have Dreadnought, Battlecruiser, Battleship, and Warship also? Maybe ALL those words in the same name?
Too many Feds have no clue with WTH is going on with their own ship lineup.
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
That would actually make sense, and I'm not joking.
The faction gameplay has been abandoned. Just call the player faction "alliance" and join all races together in there with no restrictions on which ship they comand (KDF for feds and vice versa, and romulans for all).
No, I'm dead serious. They don't develop anything not cross faction anymore (aside from fed ships), so why bother?
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The Eclipse looks like a POS...............piece of salvage :P
That's why a lot of people don't like it the same way a lot dont like the avenger and both ships are to small for there power
smaller and more powerful makes no common sense to most people as is right and logical in the real world
this has always been a issue in this game created by its designers and its escort classes the first time they turned canon upside down
bop with more firepower than a Neg'Var.........patethic nonsense
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
you missed my point I think good sir
A BOP should not be able to scratch a Neg'Var or even have 1/10th of a Neg'Vars firepower was my point
That's what I ment by STO turning canon upside down
I completely understand how the game mechanics work and I appreciate your feedback
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
This right here. STO is in it's basic design utterly inappropriate for a Star Trek game. A Galaxy class and it's Klingon counterpart, the Negh'Var, should be amongst the ships with the biggest frepower available and frigate sized ships like bops or defiants should not be able to face ships mch bigger than they are without support - that's better portrayed in the Academy games or Bridge Commander. STO however was designed to be an arcade shooter built around a single player campaign which was meant to be beatable with a BOP or a Galaxy class - without changing the missions *at all*, including spawned enemies.
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This is well said. Think of Star Trek Generations(terrible, I know)....The Durass Sisters would never have gone toe to toe with a Galaxy Class Starship in their BOP. They knew they were no match for them as they stated to Soran loudly. It was only by giving Laforge his visor with an implanted video stream that they were able to bypass the shields by matching a torpedo to the shield frequency. I think from that point the movie want too far. I believe Data would have realized that the shields were compromised and recommended a rotation of the frequency. This was a poor send off for the galaxy class. At least they didn't have the BOP destroy it under its own power.
I believe the Defiant is an exception. She is supposed to have a specialized hull designed to take hits. She was built to defend against the Borg. Many times the Defiant went against ships larger than herself. For her size, she was overpowered.
However, I agree with the post regarding the cruisers. The large crusier should have some of the best firepower. They have the largest warp cores and therefore have more power overall to dish out. This is also why its shields are much stronger than say a frigate.
So this is why in general Larger is better. More hull. More power from the Warp Core. Better Class of phasers due to the necessary power to be able to use them. At the time of TNG, the Galaxy had the highest class of phaser armament. Galaxy vs Miranda...should be no contest for example. Miranda vs Romulan Warbird. Bye Bye Miranda. However, in this game I can beat a Warbird in a Miranda. A Galaxy was a match for 1 Warbird in TNG. It would not come out of that fight without some wounds.
The Eclipse doesn't interest me. So, stop saying how great it is. I don't care.
I also don't care about the "name" Cyptic gives a cruiser. It doesn't make the cruiser any better.
By the numbers, the Eclipse *is* a very good cruiser. Matched with Intel abilities, it performs extremely well in a cruiser-like role while being able to cough out amazing amounts of firepower with pre-upgraded gear. In the hands of a skilled pilot it's likely to be apocalyptic. You shouldn't tell people in your thread to stop mentioning it: the facts speak the truth about the Eclipse.
As for the name of a ship type, that matters as well. "What's in a name..." ... everything. You would not have started this thread if the current "battlecruiser" didn't fit your schema of the type.
Oh come now in "canon" [ST Undiscovered Country] a simple Bop killed GOD with only a couple of shots. :P
PS can i haz that cannon please for my BoP :P:P
This game is actually full of nonsense...
captains extracting dilithium...
Cruisers dealing much much much more damage than escorts...
The valdore console...
....
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
LOL! Star Trek V was the worst of the whole series. As was Generations for TNG.
Of course you can have your opinion on the Eclipse. Those who love it...enjoy! I am glad you got a ship you love.
However, explain to me why the Ody is not a T6? She is the class of the Flagship. Why would the Flagship not be outfitted with the latest and greatest? It deserves more than a T5U.
In my opinion, I would rather have a T6 Ody than an Eclipse. It just looks closer to what the Sovereign would progress to and actually something Starfleet would produce. I mean it is the newest Enterprise. I believe CBS/Paramount had to sign off before they could even call it "Enterprise".
A whole new ship would be the second option. Many people support the Typhoon, for example. I don't like the default deflector dish, but usually you get a couple choices on each ship type they introduce.
Yes, looks matter to me (size/design/hull type) if I am dropping $30 of real money for a ship.
Of course, looks alone don't make the ship. It would be worthless if it looks awesome, but doesn't have the performance to match.
The name alone doesn't make the ship...if it is awesome...then it is awesome. So slapping the name dreadnought/battlecrusier/battleship won't necessarily cause me to purchase the ship. I would have bought the Avenger if that was the case.
NO..... NO MORE SHIPS FOR THE FEDS UNTIL THEY CATCH UP ON THE OTHER TWO FACTIONS.
the Fed side just got SIX (6) new ships, compared to two each for the Klingon and Romulan. The game is already over-weighted on the Fed side. Time to allow the game to re-balance post DR.
May as well wish for unicorns and polite people. It'd be nice but we know it won't happen.
At the very least let us all recognize the gift the OP has given us for the holidays. Federation, Klingons, and Romulans, all coming together as one, voices in chorus, to sing "seriously OP, WTF are you smoking?"
first, a lot of things are not canon... however attack ships are canon since the defiant appeared in ds9 and was presented as a ship designed to deal massive damage in a was. Cruisers in star trek were never intended to be used for war but exploration.
second, if you create "attack ships" as alternative to "cruisers" and "science vessels", if you create dhcs as alternative (dealing more damage) to beam arrays (and equippable only on attack ships), then attack ships (equiped with dhcs) shoul be exactally what the name says: attack ships, the best way for dealing massive damage.
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
That's true.
But this is a - let's call it "myth" - that is brought up ever again and, once again, people are confused because of the terminology used.
Yes, the Defiant was a "warship" - now, jaws drop because "WAAAAGHship! That destwoys EVERYTHING!" - no. The Defiant was designed as a response to the Borg, that is true. But we can safely assume that a Defiant class was NOT meant to substitute for cruisers and trash Borg cubes like STO suggests. In-canon we don't see the Defiant engage ships out of it's own weightclass with two exceptions and those show that the ship can pull some magic, but not decide the battle on it's own. It is far more likely that the thought behind it was to maximize weapons and minimize crew and targetable are at the same time, since the (nu)-Borg feast on a ship's crew (the more crew the more drones) and have no problem disposing of large cruisers in short time (both original and nu-borg). So it's more likely to think of the Defiant as a Starfleet adapted B'Rel BOP. You use a swarm of those ships to engage Borg to maximize chances and efficiency - not a single Defiant to decide an entire battle.
And again, you assume that because a cruiser is an "Explorer" it means it cannot fight. Starfleet cruisers are designed to function on their own and explore deep space which houses countless unknown dangers from petty pirates to omnipotent gods with the cpability of defending itself at least until help arrives. The Galaxy class featured so much firepower that it repeatedly upset first contact aliens that thought Starfleet just put the meanest doombringer in front of them to threaten them into cooperation. Exploration in the Star Tre sense is dangerous and all those cruisers are equipped to be armed and equipped to the maximum capability and state of the art technology. Now, group those ships together and a fleet and you have a very potent force of "battleships" - after all, the UFP waged so many wars and always got out on top. Now, those ships are indeed not battlecruisers, but they are more than capable to fight with some differences. Battlecruisers, like the Klingons use them, are not designed to operate alone. With the exception of the Negh'Var, all Klingon ships operate in pairs or swarms. Starfleet cruisers are by design meant to operate alone which is why their defensive capabilities are better while their manoeuvreability lacks (the Ambassador was more manoeuvreable than Klingon ships of it's time, but the Vor'Cha most likely changed that later on). In short, a Galaxy class would be a steamroller in a combat situation while a Vor'Cha or Sovereign would probably better of flanking.
Now, back to STO - of course "attack ships" should deal damage, but there had to be trade-offs. If you would be true to canon that would mean if you play a "attack ship" you would be screwed when you face a large cruiser, but if that cruiser is bound in combat by another cruiser you would flank and use all kind of strategy. STO doesn't know trade-offs. Escorts just have the same number of wapons up front as cruisers have, plus more damage potential but only a minimum of lesser survivability which, after all the power creep, doesn't even matter anymore. The plus in hull and shield a cruiser has is completely nullified by the plus in damage a escort dishes out.
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I simply cannot believe you said that. Really. I can't. It simply amazes me. Cruisers are the backbone of real fighting strength to the various navies in Star Trek. The Constitution, Excelsior, Galaxy, Sovereign class Cruisers were the epitome of the best of Starfleet's technology and combat capability when they were introduced. Starfleet and the Federation and guys like Picard really like to talk up the Exploration aspects, but the truth is that Starfleet, it's personnel, and its ships were built first and foremost to defend the Federation. And Cruisers like those I listed were the backbone of that heavier fighting strength. Small vessels made the bulk of the fleet. You can't have the entire fleet made up of something like Sovereigns and Galaxies due to the prohibitive costs and numbers required. But the smaller vessels do the bulk of various duties as needed of any of the navies. But when things got serious, when one of the major powers like the Federation, Klingons, Romulans had to "show the flag" with strength, they sent a large ship. They sent a Cruiser.
Now, how STO goes around goofily depicting this is an entirely different matter. But in general in Star Trek, the bigger the ship, the more power overall. In terms of capability, staying power, firepower, Cruisers had them. The Defiant was the only thing that broke that tradition throughout the entirety of Star Trek. That thing was protected by Plot Armor Mk XX until the movie "First Contact" and it was WTFpwned by the Borg. It was about to ram the cube until... a Sovereign-class Cruiser comes in gloriously to save the day.
The first important thing is that the tv series and the game are totally different, even if the game is inspired to the series.
The series is just about the federation and from a "federal point of view"... the federation is not an expanding empire but an alliance and the tipical mission of captains are diplomatic and exploration. Remember the words "These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before." and in an episode of TNG (I do not remember what) Picard says that the enterprise was not intended to be used in war.
That is, all the tv series are talking about the federation as a fleet involved in exploration first of all... even if cruisers are powerfull ships.
that said, the game is a lot different... in the game we have different ships (and weapons) because when the game was designed devs wanted roles: science vessels were what in an other game are mages, cruisers were healers and tankers, escorts the warriors...
this until the introduction of ships like the scimitar and mechanics that combined to BFaW let you deal so much dps (in a so easy way) that no matter what ship you fly, no need to tank, no need to heal, no need to target, no need to be a good pilot... just click and see the magic of a scenario cleared in a few seconds. Being a good pilot, choosing a certain ship... is only required if you want to deal a never seen dps
However, we are going off topic...
IMHO if you want federal battleships, universal cruisers, or whatever you want... I do not care, but STO actually is totally unbalanced: we have 3 factions (well, the romulan one is just half a faction) but devs are developing only for one and that faction has the 95% of what there is in the game. That is IMO wrong, totally wrong... It's wrong because many players for years have spent time (and also money) to play as kdf and now are totally left behind, It's wrong because there is no need to have multiple toons if the game evolves in a way where you do not need to play a role and/or teamworking... There is no challenge when you can destroy many many ships in a while, just using one ability and a few mechanics. No fun when you, me and all the players just play the same role
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
Very true the defiant class was a short range attack ship designed to be produced in numbers to defend earth from the borg because it packed the most in the smallest hull with the smallest crew for the least cost.
No long range supplies or crew comforts or medical needs required they were to remain at there post or warp to where needed....All of the things the ship lacked could be supplied from earth or where ever it was stationed
Like a pit Bull on a leash...............in no way other than defense duty could it hope to replace a cruiser it didn't even have the firepower or defense of a cruiser it would take several to equal one that's why there were cheep/disposable
Human cost...you could crew 8 defiants for the human cost of 1 Galaxy class.....That is a huge win right there and makes the defiant very desirable for defense
The most expensive thing on a starship is its crew and the hardest to replace in war
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
You're in the same camp Gene Rodenberry was in: He insisted that Starfleet was not a military organization and its purpose is a peaceful one. That's an outright lie just going by what goes on the shows, even sticking to TOS only.
You are confusing one of the few missions that is popularized with the TV shows with what Starfleet is primarily about. Those long ranged, long endurance exploration missions are a feature mission done by Starfleet. But they're not fulfilling the primary purpose of the fleet. Starfleet, like its competing navies of Star Trek, is responsible for the defense of the Federation. They have ships patrolling their part of the varied "Neutral Zones." They have ships ready to act in case of breaches of those said Neutral Zones. You have ships patrolling Federation space to maintain security. You have ships doing exploration missions. You have ships dispatched to deal with a crisis.
Starfleet's ships are in general, ALL warships. For far too many times, Starfleet has found itself fighting the Federations wars, despite the Federation's "peaceful" talks with expansionist imperialism (hehe, that's another thread right there). Throughout the various Star Trek series, there have been many allusions to historical brush fires, skirmishes, outright wars. The Federation itself was formed originally as a military alliance against a far larger threat. In TOS, we hear of the cataclysmic "Earth Romulan War" almost a century prior to the events of TOS. In TOS, the Federation and Klingons had constantly been at odds. In one event, both powers were again on the verge of war. Starfleet diverted the Enterprise to Organia to leverage a Federation advantage there before the Klingons do, and both powers were frothing at the mouth to prepare for the impending war. In TNG there had several episodes dealing with the Federation-Cardassian War previous to the events of the show with some members of the Enterprise being veterans of that war. Also in TNG, there was an episode in dealing with the Shelliak, a power the Federation had a brief war with until peace was settled, and the Enterprise was dispatched in dealing with a crisis that could easily get into a shooting war with a ship capable of handling a fight if it needed to. In DS9 we find the Federation suddenly embroiled in a truly cataclysmic war, the Dominion War, that pushed everything into military service.
In short, the point is that Starfleet finds itself all too often in a fight. Whether it's a skirmish here, small conflicts, or large scale wars. It doesn't get the luxury of dictating when the fighting begins. All it can do is prepare for it. Just like the Klingons and Romulans traditionally had an arms race with each other, to include the larger Federation. And with fighting potentially occurring at any time, the fleet in general is prepared and capable to fight.
To say Starfleet doesn't design its ships to be ready for war at any time and only for the purpose of exploration and diplomacy is ridiculous.
Starfleet is not a military in present days sense. It's Starfleet. It's credo is "Ex Astris, scientia", it's primary mission is exploration. It's military functions are of course also part of their profile, but Starfleet Officers function like minutemen in that regard. Defense is one of their missions, but not their primary function. The mindset behind Starfleet is different: While the US Navy for example does also conduct civil operations but is a military primarily with Starfleet it's the other way around. It's just the mindset you need your head wrapped around.
That however is true, every Starfleet ship is armed to it's teeth, relative to it's class and function. Because neither Exploration, nor Diplomacy is a "safe" business. Exploration is NOT a peaceful, pacifistic mission, it's hilariously dangerous venturing into deep space, that's what all the guns are for.
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The fact that there are so few purpose built ships (the Oberth and Defiant are the only canon examples I can think of) shows that none of Starfleet's missions are mutually exclusive. That's why cruisers are the main vessels employed by Starfleet. They have the size and resources to handle whatever circumstances a particular missions might require and then move on to the next mission that may well require a whole new set of requirements. A Galaxy class is a warship...and an explorer...and a hospital ship...and a research vessel...and a mobile conference center...etc.
Given that we are currently in a pro-specialist/anti-generalist age that philosophy is sometimes hard for people to understand. That appreciating is made even harder in STO when when the lore is so at odds with the game experience. Starfleet's purpose is to do whatever the Federation needs doing, but unfortunately all STO really requires is "pew, pew."
You are both correct. Remember when Picard said in Insurrection: Can anyone remember when we were explorers? In TNG, they were primarily explorers, but ready to take the fight to anyone who challenged the Feds. The Galaxy had the best the Federation had at the time.
With the Enterprise E, it was a cruiser but she had teeth. She was sleek and more manuverable than the Galaxy. As you said, the E swooped in and save the day in First Contact. I think the Soverign is underpowered in the game. However, it has been like 30 years since the last trek movie in the game.
Starfleet used its ships until they were dead. They would refit anything that could move. The Excelsior class was used in TNG and DS9(probably because they had a working model...cheaper production). Many people love their Excelsior in game. From what people have said, it sounds like she is pretty tough and can dish it out.
The Lakota was upgraded and fought the Defiant. The Captain could have destroyed the Defiant with Quantum Torps, but let it go. Two phaser hits from the Lakota dropped the Defiant to 60% shields.
So, a 30 year old ship like the Soveign should still be a force to be reckoned with. However, I never got the feeling that it was in game. I got the Ody a while back and it really was a waste of money. I didn't think it was much better than the Sov other than the stronger hull. These issues are probably more due to the balance issues in the game than anything.
the first starfleet ship, the fist enterprise was intented as exploration ship... it had no weapon at all, just a few "marines". Only when it was obvious that explorating the deep space, contacting others civilizations was not always safe they started to install weapons on the ship.
As other players wrote, starflit is not a military organization in the way we intend in real life... lawstanz, angrytarg and papesh1 had explained this better then me, so I will not tell anything more about this.
What is important now, is that STO is based on the series, but is also very different... It's really a nonsense talking about what is canon and what not at the moment... It's important talking about what we need to have a balanced and funny game, what is currently wrong and what is good. I think we have 3 faction (2.5 to be onest, imho) and that faction should have the same attention by devs... currently fed have 90% of what we can have/do in this game, while 2 faction have really no attention... it's time to change if we do not want our toons being very similar and no difference playing as fed, kdf or romulan.
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
Miranda
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers