u mean to tell me... you can fire SSIII WHILE CLOAKED, and people still are saying it's not OP?
clearly this s**t is broke, along with other t6 TRIBBLE too.
Yeap, fully from cloak, can do an entire match without decloaking.
Also, tested SS3 with some Mk VII AP DHC, here is the result.
[4:10] [Combat (Self)] Your Antiproton Dual Heavy Cannons - Surgical Strikes III deals 53007 (43570) Antiproton Damage(Critical) to Player1.
[4:10] [Combat (Self)] Your Antiproton Dual Heavy Cannons - Surgical Strikes III deals 50485 (41497) Antiproton Damage(Critical) to Player1.
[4:10] [System] [Default] Player1 was defeated by SOB.
[4:10] [System] [Default] Player1 has left the match.
[4:12] [Combat (Self)] Your Antiproton Dual Heavy Cannons - Surgical Strikes III deals 60915 (45267) Antiproton Damage(Critical) to Player2.
[4:12] [Combat (Self)] Your Antiproton Dual Heavy Cannons - Surgical Strikes III deals 62401 (46371) Antiproton Damage(Critical) to Player2.
[4:12] [System] [Default] Player2 was defeated by SOB.
Yeap, fully from cloak, can do an entire match without decloaking.
Also, tested SS3 with some Mk VII AP DHC, here is the result.
[4:10] [Combat (Self)] Your Antiproton Dual Heavy Cannons - Surgical Strikes III deals 53007 (43570) Antiproton Damage(Critical) to Player1.
[4:10] [Combat (Self)] Your Antiproton Dual Heavy Cannons - Surgical Strikes III deals 50485 (41497) Antiproton Damage(Critical) to Player1.
[4:10] [System] [Default] Player1 was defeated by SOB.
[4:10] [System] [Default] Player1 has left the match.
[4:12] [Combat (Self)] Your Antiproton Dual Heavy Cannons - Surgical Strikes III deals 60915 (45267) Antiproton Damage(Critical) to Player2.
[4:12] [Combat (Self)] Your Antiproton Dual Heavy Cannons - Surgical Strikes III deals 62401 (46371) Antiproton Damage(Critical) to Player2.
[4:12] [System] [Default] Player2 was defeated by SOB.
like i said, our hitpoint pools are a joke, compared to even a single cycle of SS. its designed to deal with elite difficulty npcs with a million hitpoints, not player ships with 100k
It is able to be countered. Mostly with bonus defense and evade target lock vs one person but when you have a team doing it to you your team better be on the ball for healzzzzzzz <---- lots of them!
Also as much as people go eww fbp noo noob bla bla because they don't know how to watch buffs might want to slot a copy and speck into it but even that is not a I win vs it ask horizon :P I was able to use his fbp to get gdf hehe.
looks like the cannon ss is way strong though might have to nerf that one a bit cause whoa redic ha
The only thing they need to do is remove the ACC component from the ability. Players would have to rely more on ACC again and the linear power increase that comes from CrtD in conjunction with this ablility would be severely diminished.
Though SS2 and above are probably bugged. They shouldn't increase the base damage of attacks by as much as they do. Bort said that the damage increase was only to offset the loss due to fyring more slowly, but this offset clearly scales wrong with the ability's rank.
The only thing they need to do is remove the ACC component from the ability. Players would have to rely more on ACC again and the linear power increase that comes from CrtD in conjunction with this ablility would be severely diminished.
Though SS2 and above are probably bugged. They shouldn't increase the base damage of attacks by as much as they do. Bort said that the damage increase was only to offset the loss due to fyring more slowly, but this offset clearly scales wrong with the ability's rank.
SS1 does not alter the DPS in the tool tip compared to just unbuffed fireing, and cuts the number of volleys in half. so, everything delivers damage like a DHC, and as a result is simply more effective front loaded damage, and it also buffs acc and crit chance quite a bit. SS1 ends up being pretty crappy though because of that, so many shots crit anyway that you gain little.
SS2 and 3 do actually raise the DPS over base along with add even more acc and crit, they are FAR better as a result.
SS1 does not alter the DPS in the tool tip compared to just unbuffed fireing, and cuts the number of volleys in half. so, everything delivers damage like a DHC, and as a result is simply more effective front loaded damage, and it also buffs acc and crit chance quite a bit. SS1 ends up being pretty crappy though because of that, so many shots crit anyway that you gain little.
SS2 and 3 do actually raise the DPS over base along with add even more acc and crit, they are FAR better as a result.
Aha. Why are you explaining to me how the different ranks work and what does that have to do with my stance on how the ability should be changed?
Aha. Why are you explaining to me how the different ranks work and what does that have to do with my stance on how the ability should be changed?
i was clarifying what goes on with the ability, because you seemed foggy on the subject. how, if at all, it should change was not a subject i addressed.
i was clarifying what goes on with the ability, because you seemed foggy on the subject. how, if at all, it should change was not a subject i addressed.
SS1 does not alter the DPS in the tool tip compared to just unbuffed fireing, and cuts the number of volleys in half. so, everything delivers damage like a DHC, and as a result is simply more effective front loaded damage, and it also buffs acc and crit chance quite a bit. SS1 ends up being pretty crappy though because of that, so many shots crit anyway that you gain little.
SS2 and 3 do actually raise the DPS over base along with add even more acc and crit, they are FAR better as a result.
Yeah that doesn't seem right. How can you fire energy weapons from cloak? Was this like some random 1-time bug or is this how SS actually works?!?!
It's been like that since day one of DR. It's probably because cloaking against NPCs is almost useless so most people don't really care or haven't figured it out.
like i said, our hitpoint pools are a joke, compared to even a single cycle of SS. its designed to deal with elite difficulty npcs with a million hitpoints, not player ships with 100k
Maybe they could add a temporary token when you join a level 50+ pvp instance that would grant a 4x base hull strength increase while in that instance?
It's been like that since day one of DR. It's probably because cloaking against NPCs is almost useless so most people don't really care or haven't figured it out.
I'm sure it's a bug though...
If I may, I've noticed that you can use intelligence abilities while cloaked, I think that's why SS works while enhanced cloaked. Not sayin it's right, specially in this case.
The only thing they need to do is remove the ACC component from the ability.
Not really. Or at all. There are multiple proven ways to remove defense. That being the case your suggested fix would certainly stymie the lazy but no one else. I'm sure there are players enjoying large amounts of overflow though and I'm sure this contributes to the feeling that this ability is overpowered.
Players would have to rely more on ACC again and the linear power increase that comes from CrtD in conjunction with this ablility would be severely diminished.
No. Not so much. It's been pretty much accepted fact that you can't chase down defense with accuracy and even with the buff from surgical strikes there is still the possibility of being on the wrong end of the accuracy - defense equation as the attacker. And all abilities that use the non linear hit table are also...non linear. So you need to convince us that you know what your're talking about there. So far not so good.
Though SS2 and above are probably bugged. They shouldn't increase the base damage of attacks by as much as they do. Bort said that the damage increase was only to offset the loss due to fyring more slowly, but this offset clearly scales wrong with the ability's rank.
Not really sure what you're saying here unless it's "It does to much damage they must have coded it wrong.". You may want to clear that up a bit. What's your basis for saying that it clearly 'scales wrong'?
People that understand how accuracy and defense work would still be pummeling folks with this. And they'd just have to try a teeny bit harder than they do now.
It's the gobs and gobs of critical chance. Without the increase in critical chance this would be a good ability along the lines of what players were asking for as an alternative to fire at will. Or even if they toned down the buff to critical chance. Essentially though, and the developers as well as the players need to learn to live with this, the game was never designed to allow for ships to be hit 100% of the time and survive for very long. It's just the way the game was implemented. And I know that seems counter to saying that removing ACC won't fix the ability and that's because you don't need ACC, you just need your target to not have any DEF.
Or you can all go play a nice MMO like WOW with a nice simple one roll to rule them all hit table that's been so simplified over the years that now everyone is auto hit capped at level.
And anyone surprised at this ability at this late date...that's surprising.
People that understand how accuracy and defense work would still be pummeling folks with this. And they'd just have to try a teeny bit harder than they do now.
It's the gobs and gobs of critical chance. Without the increase in critical chance this would be a good ability along the lines of what players were asking for as an alternative to fire at will. Or even if they toned down the buff to critical chance. Essentially though, and the developers as well as the players need to learn to live with this, the game was never designed to allow for ships to be hit 100% of the time and survive for very long. It's just the way the game was implemented. And I know that seems counter to saying that removing ACC won't fix the ability and that's because you don't need ACC, you just need your target to not have any DEF.
Or you can all go play a nice MMO like WOW with a nice simple one roll to rule them all hit table that's been so simplified over the years that now everyone is auto hit capped at level.
And anyone surprised at this ability at this late date...that's surprising.
Remove CrtH?! Why don't we remove the ability altogether then?!
See, this is why I should stop reading here: there's no community so bent on wanting to destroy everything that is even remotely good, as the PvP community.
Remove CrtH?! Why don't we remove the ability altogether then?!
See, this is why I should stop reading here: there's no community so bent on wanting to destroy everything that is even remotely good, as the PvP community.
See, it's strawmanning like this I just can't take seriously.
His argument: Surgical Strikes' boost to critical hit chance means it outperforms any other skill/damage boost
Your claim of his argument: REMOVE CRITICAL HIT FROM THE GAME OMG HE'S OPPRESSING MEEEEEEEEE!
Yeah, I know which one I'm going to take seriously.
It's the gobs and gobs of critical chance. Without the increase in critical chance this would be a good ability along the lines of what players were asking for as an alternative to fire at will.
See, there it is!
And there's no oppressing: just PvP-ers constantly encroaching on the gameplay of others, who don't even PvP at all.
If you'd stop ASKING for broken ****, we'll stop pointing out when **** gets broke because we won't have anything TO point out.
LOL. I never asked for anything: I just played the game. And then, one day, they offered T6 ships with cool new abilities: cool enough for me to want to invest in. So, yeah, not too fond of ppl immediately wanting to destroy that, simply because they can't win in PvP any more.
See, I don't even think your PvP concerns are invalid. I just hate it when *I* get nerfed, because PvP-ers have an issue. Honestly, hand to God, I wish they'd put you guys on your own PvP server, with your own rules, not affecting everyone else. Guess that's not going to happen, though.
Like I said, I should probably just not read here, and not get upset with all the outlandish nerf proposals.
HOW many abilities that get threads (multiple sometimes) in the PvP section even WORK against NPC mobs?
Disables? don't make me giggle more-disables mostly don't work, the few that do, are spammed endlessly, but for the most part, don't work on NPC mobs-they work fine on players, just not on bots.
do you REALLY need your BFAW to run constant at max-power because it doesn't drain? seriously?
The old version of the t4 Romulan placate? did NOTHING to NPC's. didn't even stop them once. worked great on players. similarly, ionic turbulence doesn't shake cubes, and doesn't flicker probes...but works on crystalline entiteis and Other Players just fine.
Overwhelming Force doesn't actually proc against NPC's-it DOES proc against Players.
get the idea yet, Meimeitoo? the stuff we're talking about, has about a thousandth the impact on your playstyle-when it has any at all-that it does on PvP.
(well, thousandth may be an exaggeration...but not much of one.)
tbh, you should be looking here to ask yourself "Why isn't this working for me, when it's working on the PvP guys?"
^^ Those are all valid examples.
But you have to admit, removing CrtH from SS makes it an utterly useless ability (more dmg per strike, but at lower pulse rate, hence, per saldo, less power to drain with Plasmonic Leech).
And withouy SS (or OSS, which peeps also want to nerf to death, apparently), you just killed Intel entirely, really. Then you might as well go back to traditional Escort builds.
Because what kills in PvP isn't what kills in PvE.
Lemme give you an example:
I can prey on other players in Ker'rat with my bitty little BoP, and they die a LOT faster than the Borg do, especially if I use lockboxed or other unbalanced things to make it easier-most of those lockboxed things don't do squat to NPC's like Borg, Vaduar (sp?), Tal-Shiar, Elachi, etc.
this is without top-tier gear, mind, I don't NEED XIV golds to kill farmers, or go after another person at level 50 (who isn't in an Intel ship).
but, as a 'test run' in Cure showed me, while I can spike an Odyssey to death with my L54 Bird of Prey when the Oddy is piloted by a person, I'll be shooting all day to kill one, lousy, Assimilated Bird of Prey who isn't even evading on 'Advanced'.
Because he's also not using powers that can be disabled, nor does jamming his sensors TRIBBLE up his targeting.
YOu know, things that work on other players.
In simple terms, what you're suggesting has already come to pass minus the separate server-the rules aren't consistent throughout the game.
Disables don't work on NPC's, but they work entirely TOO well on other players.
I'm beginning to see what you're saying.
Ironically, then, what was meant as a pseudo server-separation actually has the reverse effect. So, basically it would seem they meant to enhance several ability for PvP (like endless forms of disables, that don't affect cheating NPC's). But then these effects are so debilitating in PvP, that the upshot is that things need to be nerfed in PvE too (where none of the debilitating powers were even present to begin with). One thing that leaps to mind then, is to remove these silly disables from PvP. No one should be able to disable an entire team for 5 secs, with just 1 ability. That's OP, even without SS. :P
Btw, thanks for not yelling at me (which I expected, and, in all honestly, had kinda coming when lighting a fuse in here), and instead just explaing things. Here's to hoping they make PvP life easier on you guys, without ruining the abilities in PvE in the process!
Ironically, then, what was meant as a pseudo server-separation actually has the reverse effect. So, basically it would seem they meant to enhance several ability for PvP (like endless forms of disables, that don't affect cheating NPC's). But then these effects are so debilitating in PvP, that the upshot is that things need to be nerfed in PvE too (where none of the debilitating powers were even present to begin with). One thing that leaps to mind then, is to remove these silly disables from PvP. No one should be able to disable an entire team for 5 secs, with just 1 ability. That's OP, even without SS. :P
Btw, thanks for not yelling at me (which I expected, and, in all honestly, had kinda coming when lighting a fuse in here), and instead just explaing things. Here's to hoping they make PvP life easier on you guys, without ruining the abilities in PvE in the process!
As an admittedly embittered PvP vet who quit the game months ago yet still forum lurks, one who long ago learned to normally scroll past the posts from the RP'ing, PVE loving Feddies dropping in to vent their rage in the PvP forums, I have only one thing to say to you sir....
a single target skill is hardly ever the go to skill for pve game play anyway, your almost always dealing with 3 to 10 targets at any given time. a nerf to FAW or CSV on the other hand would have HUGE pve implications.
and ya debuffs and disables and CC are next to useless in pve, because npcs are so basic there is nothing to debuff, there's no abilities to strip. player ships are a house of cards held up by ability cycling, interrupt that and its a total disaster. npcs are simply their base hitpoints and base resistance levels, with maybe a skill or 2 they will survive long enough to use once. this is why DPS ONLY maters in pve, because npcs are nothing like playerships. if npcs had MUCH lower hitpoints, and relied on heals and if/then statements for using skills, striping, disabling, and confusing could get them killed as fast as pure DPS would, and something besides tactical would be worth using in pve. but nooooooooooooo, just give npcs a million hitpoints, and call it elite difficulty, thats the best the devs can do, npcs that wouldn't even rate as placeholders in alpha testing, thats the garbage we have been stuck with for almost 5 years. like its any wonder pvpers can hardly stand pve gameplay.
i don't think SS needs nerfing so much as player ship hitpoints needs reevaluation. not just because of SS, CRF and BO and neutronic torp all can vap near as well if your gear is good enough.
a rebalance of SS should be one that matches the DPS boost of CRF, at all 3 levels, so they both do the same DPS but have opposite rates of fire. and since intel skills are 'premium' skills, they get some boosted acc and crit too, but not nearly as much as current. or, it should be like BO, every shot is a crit, to help eliminate all the hyper damaging edge cases and give a more consistent damage range.
Comments
Yeap, fully from cloak, can do an entire match without decloaking.
Also, tested SS3 with some Mk VII AP DHC, here is the result.
[4:10] [Combat (Self)] Your Antiproton Dual Heavy Cannons - Surgical Strikes III deals 53007 (43570) Antiproton Damage(Critical) to Player1.
[4:10] [Combat (Self)] Your Antiproton Dual Heavy Cannons - Surgical Strikes III deals 50485 (41497) Antiproton Damage(Critical) to Player1.
[4:10] [System] [Default] Player1 was defeated by SOB.
[4:10] [System] [Default] Player1 has left the match.
[4:12] [Combat (Self)] Your Antiproton Dual Heavy Cannons - Surgical Strikes III deals 60915 (45267) Antiproton Damage(Critical) to Player2.
[4:12] [Combat (Self)] Your Antiproton Dual Heavy Cannons - Surgical Strikes III deals 62401 (46371) Antiproton Damage(Critical) to Player2.
[4:12] [System] [Default] Player2 was defeated by SOB.
i kekd, hard
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
like i said, our hitpoint pools are a joke, compared to even a single cycle of SS. its designed to deal with elite difficulty npcs with a million hitpoints, not player ships with 100k
seriously... we should all do that and make a video of the match. nobody decloak. whoever pushes the button first wins.
/facepalm
Also as much as people go eww fbp noo noob bla bla because they don't know how to watch buffs might want to slot a copy and speck into it but even that is not a I win vs it ask horizon :P I was able to use his fbp to get gdf hehe.
looks like the cannon ss is way strong though might have to nerf that one a bit cause whoa redic ha
Though SS2 and above are probably bugged. They shouldn't increase the base damage of attacks by as much as they do. Bort said that the damage increase was only to offset the loss due to fyring more slowly, but this offset clearly scales wrong with the ability's rank.
Ninth Fleet Division Commander
Rom Tac - Rovath
Fed Sci - Christopher
Fed Tac - Chris Ralston
SS1 does not alter the DPS in the tool tip compared to just unbuffed fireing, and cuts the number of volleys in half. so, everything delivers damage like a DHC, and as a result is simply more effective front loaded damage, and it also buffs acc and crit chance quite a bit. SS1 ends up being pretty crappy though because of that, so many shots crit anyway that you gain little.
SS2 and 3 do actually raise the DPS over base along with add even more acc and crit, they are FAR better as a result.
firing SS while CLOAKED!!!!!!!!!!
if you don't already know... the rom ship is the only one that can do this!! you guys are aren't concerned with the implication of this?
if you don't think that is bugged\op, then there is little hope for this community.
Aha. Why are you explaining to me how the different ranks work and what does that have to do with my stance on how the ability should be changed?
i was clarifying what goes on with the ability, because you seemed foggy on the subject. how, if at all, it should change was not a subject i addressed.
So anyone tried dual cannons instead of heavies?
@rudiefix Feds: Rudiefix / Thron / Opa
@rudiefix KDFs: Lill / Xifeidur / Dehr / Ugly
@rudiefix Roms (KDF alligned): Chicita
Yeah that doesn't seem right. How can you fire energy weapons from cloak? Was this like some random 1-time bug or is this how SS actually works?!?!
@DevolvedOne
It's been like that since day one of DR. It's probably because cloaking against NPCs is almost useless so most people don't really care or haven't figured it out.
I'm sure it's a bug though...
Maybe they could add a temporary token when you join a level 50+ pvp instance that would grant a 4x base hull strength increase while in that instance?
If I may, I've noticed that you can use intelligence abilities while cloaked, I think that's why SS works while enhanced cloaked. Not sayin it's right, specially in this case.
People that understand how accuracy and defense work would still be pummeling folks with this. And they'd just have to try a teeny bit harder than they do now.
It's the gobs and gobs of critical chance. Without the increase in critical chance this would be a good ability along the lines of what players were asking for as an alternative to fire at will. Or even if they toned down the buff to critical chance. Essentially though, and the developers as well as the players need to learn to live with this, the game was never designed to allow for ships to be hit 100% of the time and survive for very long. It's just the way the game was implemented. And I know that seems counter to saying that removing ACC won't fix the ability and that's because you don't need ACC, you just need your target to not have any DEF.
Or you can all go play a nice MMO like WOW with a nice simple one roll to rule them all hit table that's been so simplified over the years that now everyone is auto hit capped at level.
And anyone surprised at this ability at this late date...that's surprising.
Remove CrtH?! Why don't we remove the ability altogether then?!
See, this is why I should stop reading here: there's no community so bent on wanting to destroy everything that is even remotely good, as the PvP community.
See, it's strawmanning like this I just can't take seriously.
His argument: Surgical Strikes' boost to critical hit chance means it outperforms any other skill/damage boost
Your claim of his argument: REMOVE CRITICAL HIT FROM THE GAME OMG HE'S OPPRESSING MEEEEEEEEE!
Yeah, I know which one I'm going to take seriously.
Strawman?!
See, there it is!
And there's no oppressing: just PvP-ers constantly encroaching on the gameplay of others, who don't even PvP at all.
LOL. I never asked for anything: I just played the game. And then, one day, they offered T6 ships with cool new abilities: cool enough for me to want to invest in. So, yeah, not too fond of ppl immediately wanting to destroy that, simply because they can't win in PvP any more.
See, I don't even think your PvP concerns are invalid. I just hate it when *I* get nerfed, because PvP-ers have an issue. Honestly, hand to God, I wish they'd put you guys on your own PvP server, with your own rules, not affecting everyone else. Guess that's not going to happen, though.
Like I said, I should probably just not read here, and not get upset with all the outlandish nerf proposals.
^^ Those are all valid examples.
But you have to admit, removing CrtH from SS makes it an utterly useless ability (more dmg per strike, but at lower pulse rate, hence, per saldo, less power to drain with Plasmonic Leech).
And withouy SS (or OSS, which peeps also want to nerf to death, apparently), you just killed Intel entirely, really. Then you might as well go back to traditional Escort builds.
I'm beginning to see what you're saying.
Ironically, then, what was meant as a pseudo server-separation actually has the reverse effect. So, basically it would seem they meant to enhance several ability for PvP (like endless forms of disables, that don't affect cheating NPC's). But then these effects are so debilitating in PvP, that the upshot is that things need to be nerfed in PvE too (where none of the debilitating powers were even present to begin with). One thing that leaps to mind then, is to remove these silly disables from PvP. No one should be able to disable an entire team for 5 secs, with just 1 ability. That's OP, even without SS. :P
Btw, thanks for not yelling at me (which I expected, and, in all honestly, had kinda coming when lighting a fuse in here), and instead just explaing things. Here's to hoping they make PvP life easier on you guys, without ruining the abilities in PvE in the process!
As an admittedly embittered PvP vet who quit the game months ago yet still forum lurks, one who long ago learned to normally scroll past the posts from the RP'ing, PVE loving Feddies dropping in to vent their rage in the PvP forums, I have only one thing to say to you sir....
Welcome to the PvP forums. Qa'pla.
btw.. nice hat... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dsut3D66QY
Kill Feddie.
Waff
and ya debuffs and disables and CC are next to useless in pve, because npcs are so basic there is nothing to debuff, there's no abilities to strip. player ships are a house of cards held up by ability cycling, interrupt that and its a total disaster. npcs are simply their base hitpoints and base resistance levels, with maybe a skill or 2 they will survive long enough to use once. this is why DPS ONLY maters in pve, because npcs are nothing like playerships. if npcs had MUCH lower hitpoints, and relied on heals and if/then statements for using skills, striping, disabling, and confusing could get them killed as fast as pure DPS would, and something besides tactical would be worth using in pve. but nooooooooooooo, just give npcs a million hitpoints, and call it elite difficulty, thats the best the devs can do, npcs that wouldn't even rate as placeholders in alpha testing, thats the garbage we have been stuck with for almost 5 years. like its any wonder pvpers can hardly stand pve gameplay.
i don't think SS needs nerfing so much as player ship hitpoints needs reevaluation. not just because of SS, CRF and BO and neutronic torp all can vap near as well if your gear is good enough.
a rebalance of SS should be one that matches the DPS boost of CRF, at all 3 levels, so they both do the same DPS but have opposite rates of fire. and since intel skills are 'premium' skills, they get some boosted acc and crit too, but not nearly as much as current. or, it should be like BO, every shot is a crit, to help eliminate all the hyper damaging edge cases and give a more consistent damage range.