I think equating this with a retail environment is specious at best.
1) Face to Face communication will ALWAYS be drastically different than text on a screen
2) Dev interaction is a bonus. It is not our job to communicate, and if we all disappeared tomorrow, that would be our right. This is not the case for a retail employee. Unfortunately, some people are better at dealing with customers than others.
I think this underscores an issue with MMOs and especially microtransaction model MMOs.
Is this game selling a service or a product? Is there really consensus in the industry about that? How do customers see it? If devs and customers disagree on this point, is it productive to maintain the disagreement?
I think virtual goods are a service by necessity. I don't think the tech/product model is tenable in the very long term. It's not an instant doom issue but I think companies that approach it as a service that involves a tech product (in a sense like a nice oil change chain or marketing firm with high end graphic artists on staff) will outperform companies that treat it as a tech product with services attached.
STOleviathan, good description there. I think the customers perceive it as a product *with* accompanying service (in the form of updates, since the game always evolves).
BTW, illcadia...again without naming names I have found out in at least one instance that if you *tactfully* point out how a statement could be perceived in a way that perhaps the individual did not intend, it gets a better response than flaming back. (As in, not calling names and not assuming 100% that you KNOW the motive behind the statement.). Even if someone did intend something out of a fit of anger, if you give a person a chance to save face they just might think better of it and clarify nicely instead of the situation escalating. You may not "want" to give that leeway or feel it is "worth" defusing a situation but unless you are willing to end the relationship (i.e. Leave and don't try to speak again), trust me...this is the more productive option.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
And Leviathan, that's essentially what we used to do. We'd tell you all of the things we had planned out. And when any of them got cut, or pushed back, or altered, we were met with a chorus of "Cryptic Lied!"
My point is that the details were obviously problematic to release. I agree there.
But the broad vision/strategy has always been a little difficult to grasp. And I think that generated a lot of snark/resentment for you guys on the "exploit" issue.
I don't think we need to know everything you guys have on a whiteboard, feature by feature.
I think we do need to know how fast we're intended to level, how you want us to spend, what the value of time/gear/abilities is, and what you see yourselves as selling. Because we can't make an informed decision about spending cash or time or energy without a sense of what the philosophy is.
I think we need to stay posted on the philosophy and the philosophy needs to be something that wouldn't be off-putting if we knew what it was.
We don't need to know every tech feature or content plan because those are NATURALLY going to be unreliable, get scrapped, get pushed back, get pushed up, etc.
Take that post by Charles on the Skillpoint reshuffling. It was a giant wall of hokey pokey tech hocus pocus. It would have been much better if he'd said, "We're shifting focus away from earning skillpoints and spec points from enemy kills after realizing that the DPS spread between players made this go much faster than is intended for some players. We're de-emphasizing leveling via duty officers because we want you logged in longer. We're shifting focus towards patrol and mission completions. If people aren't keeping pace with specialization progress in time for the rollout of the next specialization, we will look at ways to keep new and less active players from being at a permanent advantage. For now, play what you enjoy and we'll keep an eye on your progress. We do want you spending your time repeating patrols but we can revisit that idea based on feedback as time goes on."
Would people blow up? Sure. But they'd trust you guys more and give your strategy a chance if it had been articulated rather than a string of confusing changes and denials.
Cool, thanks.
Not offended, just doesn't feel like a joke when every post you read includes a jab at your company/product (even if not directly at you).
You're welcome, and no I didn't take that as directed at me, even though I have been guilty of it.
I understand your side, I know how hard it must be for you to brave the horrors of this forum. I have days where I can't stand to open this site, and I don't have the investment you do.. I don't work 'here.'
For what it's worth, the small bit of communication made me re-think how I post, and hopefully others as well. I'll try and post more constructively, and keep in mind that even though something doesn't get a reply, that doesn't mean it wasn't read.
I don't care what was said or done in the past, all I care about is helping this game move forward. It's a great game.. it's not perfect.. nothing is, but I do believe that if everyone is constructive and has the right intent that it continue to get better.
Thanks for taking the time to reply in this thread, it was appreciated. At least I know have a feeling that you guys do occasionally read the forums. I can't force everyone to be civil, but hopefully people will at least try.
Taco didn't go dark but pretty much no offense but that doesn't really count because its usually geko or some lead other lead person giving out new info. Being they leads were pretty much gone dark for 2014 that is what most ppl are trying to convey.
The other aspect is when we did get info from a lead like I'll use KHG uniforms and a c-store Negh'var for instance. The KHG uniforms have never been fixed since 2+ years ago when they were broken with season 7. The other thing is maybe a blessing and annoyance is that c-store negh'var we never got. The sort of blessing to that is if we ever get c-store versions of our most iconic Klingon ships odds are they will be a T6 instead of a T5-U. Although its been over 2 years since Geko originally talked about a c-store negh'var although its never come to pass being that federation content gets made first and if there is any time left over then the KDF or romulans will be thought of but never in any of their planning.
STOleviathan, good description there. I think the customers perceive it as a product *with* accompanying service (in the form of updates, since the game always evolves).
BTW, illcadia...again without naming names I have found out in at least one instance that if you *tactfully* point out how a statement could be perceived in a way that perhaps the individual did not intend, it gets a better response than flaming back. (As in, not calling names and not assuming 100% that you KNOW the motive behind the statement.). Even if someone did intend something out of a fit of anger, if you give a person a chance to save face they just might think better of it and clarify nicely instead of the situation escalating. You may not "want" to give that leeway or feel it is "worth" defusing a situation but unless you are willing to end the relationship (i.e. Leave and don't try to speak again), trust me...this is the more productive option.
I posted to the thread, attempting to clarify what I meant by a quote of mine that I saw being used out of context. I came back a few hours later to find the whole thread engulfed, many pages on, people ranting about how insulting I was, when no insult was ever intended, and I had clearly not expressed myself properly. However, if the response had been more of a "I wonder what he means by that, let's ask when he gets back" the whole fireball could have been averted.
I posted to the thread, attempting to clarify what I meant by a quote of mine that I saw being used out of context. I came back a few hours later to find the whole thread engulfed, many pages on, people ranting about how insulting I was, when no insult was ever intended, and I had clearly not expressed myself properly. However, if the response had been more of a "I wonder what he means by that, let's ask when he gets back" the whole fireball could have been averted.
You haven't ever been insulting the problem is they are lashing out at the only person who works for the company that regularly speaks to them.
I posted to the thread, attempting to clarify what I meant by a quote of mine that I saw being used out of context. I came back a few hours later to find the whole thread engulfed, many pages on, people ranting about how insulting I was, when no insult was ever intended, and I had clearly not expressed myself properly. However, if the response had been more of a "I wonder what he means by that, let's ask when he gets back" the whole fireball could have been averted.
Pretty much that.
And sometimes, it works in cases where I'd be willing to bet that 90% of the forum has written the individual off as unredeemable.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I posted to the thread, attempting to clarify what I meant by a quote of mine that I saw being used out of context. I came back a few hours later to find the whole thread engulfed, many pages on, people ranting about how insulting I was, when no insult was ever intended, and I had clearly not expressed myself properly. However, if the response had been more of a "I wonder what he means by that, let's ask when he gets back" the whole fireball could have been averted.
Thanks for your time. The thread in reference was closed. The matter of the fact is that even if you keep things "clean" or not...eventually the ill intent is that some community manager will try to shut down any dissent. I know from their end just doing their job but from here it looks like they just shutting down constructive or destructive criticism no matter what.
Lots of us encourage civil discussions but either the message gets stopped and might send wrong vibes.
I hope the big boss is at least in tune with what's going on the forums....for me like many others stopped playing and use this as a venue as end game.
That should tell you guys how awful for ALL this has become. I unite in the feeling to try to make this a much better MMO than what has become and sad to see it go this way.
The big elephant in the room not being addressed (XP nerfing) and that is causing a great divide in relationships among players and Devs.
Thanks again for listening and being involved more than your boss. I know there are really some cool people working on the other side of this message. However, just sad that due to an atrocious leadership it ALL melts together. Heck if I'm in your job...Id be concerned to say to my boss as well...he sucks...however if its told in a respectful manner probably might understand. Sooner or later the message will catch up...just hope is sooner.
Again commendable for the gesture and lending an ear to us
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
I have never said that I don't want to hear complaints. (and feedback/complaints have nothing to do with the line you quoted) I have repeated many times that complaints are fine. We WANT to know what you don't like about the game. What we don't like is when people get riled up and yell/curse/call us names, etc. If you can state your complaint in a rational manner, your ideas are much more likely to be taken into consideration. Again, listening is not the same as acting.
just, for the record, what is the spot for me/us to put down ideas/complaints/thoughts that we would like to have read
general discussion areas are great but they are way too multipurpose. venting and blowing off steam, while very valuable, tend to get in the way of discussion. sometimes REAAAALLLLLLYYYY get in the way. (lets face it, emotions are hot with the increased bugs, EDIT - and dilthium costs going up an order of magnitude
how about, say a suggestion box form? and I do know there is a hesitancy about that, people put in idea "A" and later on "A" shows up in the game and some people believe there is some kind of legal argle-bargle surrounding that. or there was, maybe that's all done with now.
(are they employees, do we owe them anything, are we liable, yadda yadda yadda) but in truth, people just want to play something star trecky that doesn't smell funny, and they don't really care how that happens.
it would be nice if there was a separate area to drop off ideas and discuss them, I'd favor straight up calling it the suggestion/feedback box. moderate the hell out of it too if there are too many useless flaming-bags-of-poo left on the doorstep. Let general discussion be the vent area.
just, for the record, what is the spot for me/us to put down ideas/complaints/thoughts that we would like to have read
general discussion areas are great but they are way too multipurpose. venting and blowing off steam, while very valuable, tend to get in the way of discussion. sometimes REAAAALLLLLLYYYY get in the way. (lets face it, emotions are hot with the increased bugs, EDIT - and dilthium costs going up an order of magnitude
how about, say a suggestion box form? and I do know there is a hesitancy about that, people put in idea "A" and later on "A" shows up in the game and some people believe there is some kind of legal argle-bargle surrounding that. or there was, maybe that's all done with now.
(are they employees, do we owe them anything, are we liable, yadda yadda yadda) but in truth, people just want to play something star trecky that doesn't smell funny, and they don't really care how that happens.
it would be nice if there was a separate area to drop off ideas and discuss them, I'd favor straight up calling it the suggestion/feedback box. moderate the hell out of it too if there are too many useless flaming-bags-of-poo left on the doorstep. Let general discussion be the vent area.
It does kind of go with the "DON'T PANIC," doesn't it?
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
I guess I don't get how a "Suggestion Box" forum would be any different from GD?
I mean, all of the same people would be there, discussing the same things they discuss here. . . ?
I guess I don't get how a "Suggestion Box" forum would be any different from GD?
I mean, all of the same people would be there, discussing the same things they discuss here. . . ?
That or it would be little more than tumbleweed as people still go to GD as their first port of call.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
I guess I don't get how a "Suggestion Box" forum would be any different from GD?
I mean, all of the same people would be there, discussing the same things they discuss here. . . ?
I think what some people want is a place they can go to pitch suggestions and just generally be positive about the game and hopeful about it's direction without worrying/knowing that they're going to get shouted down by the people who don't like such-and-such feature they're talking about and are convinced that the Cryptic Devs hate the game and the people who play it.
little bit confused by one thing, not flaming anyone just saying,
on the forums (after you sift through 1500 "Best expansion evers"
and other assorted Doominess) you notice that as far as Devs on
the forums go... theres a lot more Taco than Smirk.
I mean i May be wrong (and feel free to correct me, i'm honestly
curious) but isn't this kinda Smirks job? granted, Tacoposts rock,
never knocking those, but isn't Smirk supposed to be here?
and by the way, flame me if you wish! I ACTUALLY LIKE DELTA RISING.
no seriously, there need to be enough missions (even assorted patrols, yes)
to fill the gap between, but i like how long it takes to level. it makes every level
feel like an acheivment.
Back in the early days (Season One, Shaka, When the walls fell) getting
promoted to any level was a big frikken deal. everyone in my fleet who was
online would warp to ESD ASAP to stand at attention next to Commander
Menn Hilo (does anyone even remember that guy? poor dude used to be one
of the important main ESD NPCs, now he's just a random guy in dress uniform
sitting on a bench.)
Now 1-50 is just push button get bacon and everyone has 35 alts, just kinda takes
the importance out of each character. yes, yes, i know the dilithium/R&D/insert
whatever thing/etc. grind, but I run One Fed, One Klink, and One Rom, and I
have all the stuff i want, without being a "whale".
I guess I don't get how a "Suggestion Box" forum would be any different from GD?
I mean, all of the same people would be there, discussing the same things they discuss here. . . ?
Well, a super heavily moderated, invite only forum where feedback wasn't subject to the "We no longer take the forums into account." (paraphrased) as a blanket statement might be an interesting idea.
Interesting, but probably a bad idea, really. You're right.
My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
I guess I don't get how a "Suggestion Box" forum would be any different from GD?
I mean, all of the same people would be there, discussing the same things they discuss here. . . ?
A Suggestion Box section would keep all the suggestions organized in one spot rather than have some in GD, some in C-Store, and some in the Shipyard sections.
I guess I don't get how a "Suggestion Box" forum would be any different from GD?
I mean, all of the same people would be there, discussing the same things they discuss here. . . ?
I think a lot of our general crankiness comes from dealing with eachother.
Poster A says something. Poster B tells Poster A to shut up or subtly tweaks them. Thread gets closed or sane people stay away.
Eventually, Poster A ends up screaming his point every time he posts as a defense mechanism against the Poster Bs and starts to suspect that Cryptic employees are Poster Bs.
Imagine it as flamewar induced PTSD.
Whereas if we could just blog or submit comments, it would be gentler feedback and the garbage could be filtered easier.
The downside is that back and forth can generate better quality feedback sometimes. But that generally requires all participants in the back and forth be somewhat likeminded.
I also suspect this is why I'm seeing a trend in forum moderation where likeminded people get grouped together and immunized from outside views.
For example:
A PvP forum where nobody can say PvP is a waste of resources/shouldn't exist.
A PvE forum where "Thou shalt not mention PvP."
A forum where mentioning the Federation is off-limits.
A forum where mentioning Klingon content shortages is off limits.
Forums defined by what you can't talk about in them.
Including a forum that is all STO positivity and you get hit with major infractions for being negative.
But also:
A forum that is all STO negativity and moderators issue infractions to keep POSITIVITY out.
This actually has a certain kind of logic to it and I do see places where it seems to work. It's a very recent trend in how moderation and forums get approached.
But where would that leave someone if they see both bad AND good? That could actually be very polarizing to force people to choose a side that way--as in, more so than things are already polarized.
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But where would that leave someone if they see both bad AND good? That could actually be very polarizing to force people to choose a side that way--as in, more so than things are already polarized.
Well, we have a discussion forum for the in between views, and you're sitting in it. Doesn't quite work, as you can tell.
I think it may be like the description of democracy, though: the worst solution out there except for all of the others. I think if you enforce that sort of strict separation things will go from bad to worse.
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I think it may be like the description of democracy, though: the worst solution out there except for all of the others. I think if you enforce that sort of strict separation things will go from bad to worse.
I kinda like it here in GD anyway. It's fun to sit back and watch the forums burn sometimes.
On a side note, the DOOOM and Best Expansion threads are examples of opposite like-minded threads, and seem fine at policing themselves. Though of course, they're aren't for feedback either.
Comments
I think this underscores an issue with MMOs and especially microtransaction model MMOs.
Is this game selling a service or a product? Is there really consensus in the industry about that? How do customers see it? If devs and customers disagree on this point, is it productive to maintain the disagreement?
I think virtual goods are a service by necessity. I don't think the tech/product model is tenable in the very long term. It's not an instant doom issue but I think companies that approach it as a service that involves a tech product (in a sense like a nice oil change chain or marketing firm with high end graphic artists on staff) will outperform companies that treat it as a tech product with services attached.
BTW, illcadia...again without naming names I have found out in at least one instance that if you *tactfully* point out how a statement could be perceived in a way that perhaps the individual did not intend, it gets a better response than flaming back. (As in, not calling names and not assuming 100% that you KNOW the motive behind the statement.). Even if someone did intend something out of a fit of anger, if you give a person a chance to save face they just might think better of it and clarify nicely instead of the situation escalating. You may not "want" to give that leeway or feel it is "worth" defusing a situation but unless you are willing to end the relationship (i.e. Leave and don't try to speak again), trust me...this is the more productive option.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
My point is that the details were obviously problematic to release. I agree there.
But the broad vision/strategy has always been a little difficult to grasp. And I think that generated a lot of snark/resentment for you guys on the "exploit" issue.
I don't think we need to know everything you guys have on a whiteboard, feature by feature.
I think we do need to know how fast we're intended to level, how you want us to spend, what the value of time/gear/abilities is, and what you see yourselves as selling. Because we can't make an informed decision about spending cash or time or energy without a sense of what the philosophy is.
I think we need to stay posted on the philosophy and the philosophy needs to be something that wouldn't be off-putting if we knew what it was.
We don't need to know every tech feature or content plan because those are NATURALLY going to be unreliable, get scrapped, get pushed back, get pushed up, etc.
Take that post by Charles on the Skillpoint reshuffling. It was a giant wall of hokey pokey tech hocus pocus. It would have been much better if he'd said, "We're shifting focus away from earning skillpoints and spec points from enemy kills after realizing that the DPS spread between players made this go much faster than is intended for some players. We're de-emphasizing leveling via duty officers because we want you logged in longer. We're shifting focus towards patrol and mission completions. If people aren't keeping pace with specialization progress in time for the rollout of the next specialization, we will look at ways to keep new and less active players from being at a permanent advantage. For now, play what you enjoy and we'll keep an eye on your progress. We do want you spending your time repeating patrols but we can revisit that idea based on feedback as time goes on."
Would people blow up? Sure. But they'd trust you guys more and give your strategy a chance if it had been articulated rather than a string of confusing changes and denials.
You're welcome, and no I didn't take that as directed at me, even though I have been guilty of it.
I understand your side, I know how hard it must be for you to brave the horrors of this forum. I have days where I can't stand to open this site, and I don't have the investment you do.. I don't work 'here.'
For what it's worth, the small bit of communication made me re-think how I post, and hopefully others as well. I'll try and post more constructively, and keep in mind that even though something doesn't get a reply, that doesn't mean it wasn't read.
I don't care what was said or done in the past, all I care about is helping this game move forward. It's a great game.. it's not perfect.. nothing is, but I do believe that if everyone is constructive and has the right intent that it continue to get better.
Thanks for taking the time to reply in this thread, it was appreciated. At least I know have a feeling that you guys do occasionally read the forums. I can't force everyone to be civil, but hopefully people will at least try.
We should all be on the same side.
The other aspect is when we did get info from a lead like I'll use KHG uniforms and a c-store Negh'var for instance. The KHG uniforms have never been fixed since 2+ years ago when they were broken with season 7. The other thing is maybe a blessing and annoyance is that c-store negh'var we never got. The sort of blessing to that is if we ever get c-store versions of our most iconic Klingon ships odds are they will be a T6 instead of a T5-U. Although its been over 2 years since Geko originally talked about a c-store negh'var although its never come to pass being that federation content gets made first and if there is any time left over then the KDF or romulans will be thought of but never in any of their planning.
I'll second this.
This thread for example.
I posted to the thread, attempting to clarify what I meant by a quote of mine that I saw being used out of context. I came back a few hours later to find the whole thread engulfed, many pages on, people ranting about how insulting I was, when no insult was ever intended, and I had clearly not expressed myself properly. However, if the response had been more of a "I wonder what he means by that, let's ask when he gets back" the whole fireball could have been averted.
You haven't ever been insulting the problem is they are lashing out at the only person who works for the company that regularly speaks to them.
Pretty much that.
And sometimes, it works in cases where I'd be willing to bet that 90% of the forum has written the individual off as unredeemable.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Thanks for your time. The thread in reference was closed. The matter of the fact is that even if you keep things "clean" or not...eventually the ill intent is that some community manager will try to shut down any dissent. I know from their end just doing their job but from here it looks like they just shutting down constructive or destructive criticism no matter what.
Lots of us encourage civil discussions but either the message gets stopped and might send wrong vibes.
I hope the big boss is at least in tune with what's going on the forums....for me like many others stopped playing and use this as a venue as end game.
That should tell you guys how awful for ALL this has become. I unite in the feeling to try to make this a much better MMO than what has become and sad to see it go this way.
The big elephant in the room not being addressed (XP nerfing) and that is causing a great divide in relationships among players and Devs.
Thanks again for listening and being involved more than your boss. I know there are really some cool people working on the other side of this message. However, just sad that due to an atrocious leadership it ALL melts together. Heck if I'm in your job...Id be concerned to say to my boss as well...he sucks...however if its told in a respectful manner probably might understand. Sooner or later the message will catch up...just hope is sooner.
Again commendable for the gesture and lending an ear to us
Only you can prevent forum fires!
-Smokey the Forum Bear
Did anybody else just imagine a black and white tacofangs replacing Steamboat Willie on that little tugboat or was that just me?
Joined January 2009
I'm stealing that.
just, for the record, what is the spot for me/us to put down ideas/complaints/thoughts that we would like to have read
general discussion areas are great but they are way too multipurpose. venting and blowing off steam, while very valuable, tend to get in the way of discussion. sometimes REAAAALLLLLLYYYY get in the way. (lets face it, emotions are hot with the increased bugs, EDIT - and dilthium costs going up an order of magnitude
how about, say a suggestion box form? and I do know there is a hesitancy about that, people put in idea "A" and later on "A" shows up in the game and some people believe there is some kind of legal argle-bargle surrounding that. or there was, maybe that's all done with now.
(are they employees, do we owe them anything, are we liable, yadda yadda yadda) but in truth, people just want to play something star trecky that doesn't smell funny, and they don't really care how that happens.
it would be nice if there was a separate area to drop off ideas and discuss them, I'd favor straight up calling it the suggestion/feedback box. moderate the hell out of it too if there are too many useless flaming-bags-of-poo left on the doorstep. Let general discussion be the vent area.
I could seriously get behind this idea.
It does kind of go with the "DON'T PANIC," doesn't it?
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Nuuuuuu! I've been dethroned from the Taconian signature!
Joined January 2009
Yeah-ahhhhh Cryptic/PWE not very good at PR. STO has become a gigantic failed PR stunt.
I mean, all of the same people would be there, discussing the same things they discuss here. . . ?
That or it would be little more than tumbleweed as people still go to GD as their first port of call.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
I think what some people want is a place they can go to pitch suggestions and just generally be positive about the game and hopeful about it's direction without worrying/knowing that they're going to get shouted down by the people who don't like such-and-such feature they're talking about and are convinced that the Cryptic Devs hate the game and the people who play it.
I know I do.
little bit confused by one thing, not flaming anyone just saying,
on the forums (after you sift through 1500 "Best expansion evers"
and other assorted Doominess) you notice that as far as Devs on
the forums go... theres a lot more Taco than Smirk.
I mean i May be wrong (and feel free to correct me, i'm honestly
curious) but isn't this kinda Smirks job? granted, Tacoposts rock,
never knocking those, but isn't Smirk supposed to be here?
and by the way, flame me if you wish!
I ACTUALLY LIKE DELTA RISING.
no seriously, there need to be enough missions (even assorted patrols, yes)
to fill the gap between, but i like how long it takes to level. it makes every level
feel like an acheivment.
Back in the early days (Season One, Shaka, When the walls fell) getting
promoted to any level was a big frikken deal. everyone in my fleet who was
online would warp to ESD ASAP to stand at attention next to Commander
Menn Hilo (does anyone even remember that guy? poor dude used to be one
of the important main ESD NPCs, now he's just a random guy in dress uniform
sitting on a bench.)
Now 1-50 is just push button get bacon and everyone has 35 alts, just kinda takes
the importance out of each character. yes, yes, i know the dilithium/R&D/insert
whatever thing/etc. grind, but I run One Fed, One Klink, and One Rom, and I
have all the stuff i want, without being a "whale".
Well, a super heavily moderated, invite only forum where feedback wasn't subject to the "We no longer take the forums into account." (paraphrased) as a blanket statement might be an interesting idea.
Interesting, but probably a bad idea, really. You're right.
A Suggestion Box section would keep all the suggestions organized in one spot rather than have some in GD, some in C-Store, and some in the Shipyard sections.
I think a lot of our general crankiness comes from dealing with eachother.
Poster A says something. Poster B tells Poster A to shut up or subtly tweaks them. Thread gets closed or sane people stay away.
Eventually, Poster A ends up screaming his point every time he posts as a defense mechanism against the Poster Bs and starts to suspect that Cryptic employees are Poster Bs.
Imagine it as flamewar induced PTSD.
Whereas if we could just blog or submit comments, it would be gentler feedback and the garbage could be filtered easier.
The downside is that back and forth can generate better quality feedback sometimes. But that generally requires all participants in the back and forth be somewhat likeminded.
I also suspect this is why I'm seeing a trend in forum moderation where likeminded people get grouped together and immunized from outside views.
For example:
A PvP forum where nobody can say PvP is a waste of resources/shouldn't exist.
A PvE forum where "Thou shalt not mention PvP."
A forum where mentioning the Federation is off-limits.
A forum where mentioning Klingon content shortages is off limits.
Forums defined by what you can't talk about in them.
Including a forum that is all STO positivity and you get hit with major infractions for being negative.
But also:
A forum that is all STO negativity and moderators issue infractions to keep POSITIVITY out.
This actually has a certain kind of logic to it and I do see places where it seems to work. It's a very recent trend in how moderation and forums get approached.
What's less intuitive is, in the DOOM thread, for a mod to say, "This is a negativity zone. Take your positivity to the positivity thread."
But doing that would probably actually level out the negativity.
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Well, we have a discussion forum for the in between views, and you're sitting in it. Doesn't quite work, as you can tell.
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I kinda like it here in GD anyway. It's fun to sit back and watch the forums burn sometimes.
On a side note, the DOOOM and Best Expansion threads are examples of opposite like-minded threads, and seem fine at policing themselves. Though of course, they're aren't for feedback either.