The QWW "Tides of Ice" Grind Sucks: A Ridiculously Simple Solution

sekritagent

All Cryptic had to do was make the "store unlocks" happen by giving players a choice of what to do.

"Do 10 Winter Events": Run 10 winter events in any combination of Tides of Ice, Winter Invasion, Snowball Fight, OR The Fast and the Flurrious.

How simple was that? Players "earn" the freebies (:rolleyes:) and it's not an eye-watering grindfest. I'd even be cool with doing that per character. At least you can have it over with in a couple hours and move on to an alt.

But Cryptic, being Cryptic, ruined their own event with this ridiculous grind requirement looking to "push" us to one event or another.

Listen, we all get metrics, but when your game design revolves solely around metrics for the sake of reporting and not gaming for the sake of fun, you might as well code a simulator and save yourself the trouble of "dealing" with players.

mindmage

Expecting Cryptic to use their brains is like expecting riots not to break out when the justice system makes a decision you don't like.

cptndata1

mindmage2 wrote: »

Expecting Cryptic to use their brains is like expecting riots not to break out when the justice system makes a decision you don't like.

LOOOOOL OMG hit the nail on the head!

maxvitor

We're not players, we're workers on a production line, at least that seems to be the mindset driving how they have these things arranged.

js26568

Normally this could be explained away with the logical fallacy that people spend more money if they play the game for longer, but there's no possible way this can be applied here.

It's just a failure and I don't think it was a lower level member of staff that came up with it.

kriskringle3

It's always someone who wants everything for Free.

"I've got 18 toons, so 18x10 = 180 times to get my warp cores"

WHO EVER SAID YOU NEEDED THAT WARP CORE ON EVERY TOON?

We are already getting all the ships discounted on ever toon after the first. We already grind the rep system for the space gear "Per Character". What's so different here?

Are you actually playing all these toons all the time? 10, 18, 50 toons? A doubt it., and besides how many are using the Breen space set anyway?

js26568

The difference, my strangely annoyed friend is this:

We are being told what to play.
We are being told how to play it,
We are being told how long to play it.
We are even being told WHAT TIME we have to play it.

And there is no logical reasoning behind it.

bobtheskull99

js26568 wrote: »

The difference, my strangely annoyed friend is this:

We are being told what to play.
We are being told how to play it,
We are being told how long to play it.
We are even being told WHAT TIME we have to play it.

And there is no logical reasoning behind it.

aside from the time you aren't being TOLD anything, you're given a choice, you want the shiny, do this 10 times

its a crappy choice, but there it is, if you don't think its worth it DON"T DO IT

sekritagent

kriskringle3 wrote: »

It's always someone who wants everything for Free.

"I've got 18 toons, so 18x10 = 180 times to get my warp cores"

WHO EVER SAID YOU NEEDED THAT WARP CORE ON EVERY TOON?

We are already getting all the ships discounted on ever toon after the first. We already grind the rep system for the space gear "Per Character". What's so different here?

Are you actually playing all these toons all the time? 10, 18, 50 toons? A doubt it., and besides how many are using the Breen space set anyway?

Congratulations on missing the point so thoroughly. You win...well, nothing.

I clearly stated that it's fine to have us "work" for it but the requirement is way more restrictive and alt-unfriendly than it needs to be is the point. The idea to the devs is that they should ask themselves, "If I had 10 toons, would I find this ridiculously tedious or a little grindy but still kinda fun?" and then do whatever leads them to the latter answer. The almighty metrics they see and sometimes misleadingly post indicate that most people are running multi-character accounts.

It's clear that question was never considered for Delta Rising but there's a whole series of threads (and epic signatures) on that. Moving on...

As for the specific sense of entitlement you have wrongly inferred from my post, wanting to run some low-intensity grind for having the 4-piece Breen set on more than 1 toon is not unreasonable. Who knows, you might even have the odd side-effect of having players actually enjoy the game and winter events because you haven't had to repeatedly grind the same single piece of content 180 times as you put it.

For the record I don't have 18 toons. Have a nice day anyway.

jam3s1701

Erm really? . . . . . .

js26568 wrote: »

The difference, my strangely annoyed friend is this:

We are being told what to play.

No were not I play what I want in STO so don't know who is telling you Different

We are being told how to play it,

See Above

We are being told how long to play it.

Again See Above

We are even being told WHAT TIME we have to play it.

in what context you on about?? the Winter Events well yes as the events are staggered out but the run can be done once per day soooo that's up to you when you do it

And there is no logical reasoning behind it.

Yes there is for the winter events mainly because then everyone can do them when they want to and not have to wait for groups to join them etc etc

sekritagent

jam3s1701 wrote: »

Erm really? . . . . . .

This is the kind of psuedo-intellectual "but technically" that doesn't really advance the conversation and is arguing for the sake of arguing. If you have a counterargument or assertion of your own to make that doesn't consist of "well don't do it then", please do so. But don't do this. Thanks.

jam3s1701

sekritagent wrote: »

This is the kind of psuedo-intellectual "but technically" that doesn't really advance the conversation and is arguing for the sake of arguing. If you have a counterargument or assertion of your own to make that doesn't consist of "well don't do it then", please do so. But don't do this. Thanks.

I did i edited the "Quote" with orange so it can be seen what i say.

sekritagent

jam3s1701 wrote: »

I did i edited the "Quote" with orange so it can be seen what i say.

I posted that in response to your orange text edit actually. You didn't say anything except "well you don't have to do it" which is not at all the point of the thread.

js26568

jam3s1701 wrote: »

Erm really? . . . . . .

We are specifically talking about the event mentioned in the original post. Your entire reply is irrelevant. I suppose reading before commenting has been nerfed.

daveyny

Never argue with an idiot...

They have been practicing for years, and will always assume that they have won.

:cool:

shpoks

js26568 wrote: »

The difference, my strangely annoyed friend is this:

We are being told what to play.
We are being told how to play it,
We are being told how long to play it.
We are even being told WHAT TIME we have to play it.

And there is no logical reasoning behind it.

Hammer. Nail. Head.

jornado

js26568 wrote: »

The difference, my strangely annoyed friend is this:

We are being told what to play.
We are being told how to play it,
We are being told how long to play it.
We are even being told WHAT TIME we have to play it.

And there is no logical reasoning behind it.

Yes there is.

Metrics for the annual report.

chipg7

As with any game, there are requirements to get the new goodies. To get certain items, there will be certain activities you have to do or requirements you have to meet. STO has a fairly standard play-and-reward system. And being an MMO, it often comes with a grindy component.

I agree with kriskringle3, bobtheskull99, and jam3s1701 - we are being forced to do nothing. We are being offered a reward, for optionally taking part in a given set of tasks. If not completing the Winter Event locked me out from other things (ex. if they were to block me from any queue but the Winter Invasion until I complete it), then yes it would be a situation where we're being told what to do. This is not the case.

In reality, I can go ahead and play anything else in STO, and completely ignore the Winter Event if I wanted to.

But if you want the reward, you have to do something for it.

nikephorus

sekritagent wrote: »

All Cryptic had to do was make the "store unlocks" happen by giving players a choice of what to do.

"Do 10 Winter Events": Run 10 winter events in any combination of Tides of Ice, Winter Invasion, Snowball Fight, OR The Fast and the Flurrious.

How simple was that? Players "earn" the freebies (:rolleyes:) and it's not an eye-watering grindfest. I'd even be cool with doing that per character. At least you can have it over with in a couple hours and move on to an alt.

But Cryptic, being Cryptic, ruined their own event with this ridiculous grind requirement looking to "push" us to one event or another.

Listen, we all get metrics, but when your game design revolves solely around metrics for the sake of reporting and not gaming for the sake of fun, you might as well code a simulator and save yourself the trouble of "dealing" with players.

Tides of Ice is the best winter event ever and the players love it. It's 17x better then the old winter events. BUT...don't play it too much or you're an exploiter and we will nerf rewards.

caelan82

are you kidding me?
what reward?
stupid game doesn't give a reward half the time
did it 6 or 7 times and it only shows 3 in the accolades
do they expect me to do this every full hour for the next month?

cpc2011a

Don't forget that the 10 times running Tides could easily turn into 20 if you're like me and the damn queen glitches out and you don't get credit for your runs.

bobtheskull99

daveyny wrote: »

Never argue with an idiot...

They have been practicing for years, and will always assume that they have won.

:cool:

that's why its so fun to watch 2 idiots argue with each other :P

chipg7

You don't even need an entire weekend to finish the 10 runs. Every couple hours Tide also runs at the :45min mark in the random event slot.

Just play it whenever. If you're planning to spend 2hrs in-game one night, do it twice. Next time you're on for 3hrs, do it three times. And so on. Nothing demands that you a) must finish all 10 runs in succession, or b) that you stay logged in the entire time waiting for the next event to run.

Even if you do stay logged in, there's more than enough going on in Q's Wonderland to fill the entire hour. Plus, there's everything else that's always there in STO to play through.

This isn't a "grab" of some type, this isn't a mandatory grind, and this isn't solely to pad metrics. It's a yearly event that's supposed to be fun, with some nice rewards for playing. People can either participate and enjoy it, or not. No biggie.

bobtheskull99

sopwithsnipe wrote: »

I said I was going to skip the event but curiosity about this tides of ice mission got to me and I caved and tried it out.

Forewarned that Cryptic has made this event grindy and unpleasant with time gates to bolster their metrics I deliberately minimized my time spent in Q's WW.

So I ventured into the zone, unlocked the vendor and took a couple of screenshots of the items for sale and immediately left the zone. TRIBBLE Cryptic and their metrics.

Once out of the zone I scanned my screenshots and decided that there were three items I'd like. I then added up how much of each holiday TRIBBLE I'd need to buy those items and proceeded to buy them from the exchange terminal on ESD. TRIBBLE Cryptic and their grind.

Knowing the tides mission only runs once an hour on the hour I waited to re-enter Q's WW until 3 minutes before the hour and went directly to the mission.

I was surprised at how much fun and fast paced the mission was. Took me back to City of Heroes. This mission would have fit in well there and been loved by all.

When tides ended I immediately logged out. TRIBBLE Cryptics time gate, and spent the time between missions watching some TV and reading. Only logging into Q's WW two minutes before the hour to run Tides 4 more times.

At the end of my fifth run I trotted over to the vendor and bought me a pair of boots, a bat'leth, and a kit module.

The only PITA about Tides is the stupid time gate between runs. The mission itself didn't feel grindy. If it weren't for the time gate I'd spend several hours each day doing that mission on different alts just cuz it's fun. As it is I'm done and not going back.

so you participated in the winter event and enjoyed yourself....good for you

you see guys, you CAN play the game your way and have fun

orangeitis

I just feel for the players who aren't on much. :<

leviathan99

sopwithsnipe wrote: »

I said I was going to skip the event but curiosity about this tides of ice mission got to me and I caved and tried it out.

Forewarned that Cryptic has made this event grindy and unpleasant with time gates to bolster their metrics I deliberately minimized my time spent in Q's WW.

So I ventured into the zone, unlocked the vendor and took a couple of screenshots of the items for sale and immediately left the zone. TRIBBLE Cryptic and their metrics.

Once out of the zone I scanned my screenshots and decided that there were three items I'd like. I then added up how much of each holiday TRIBBLE I'd need to buy those items and proceeded to buy them from the exchange terminal on ESD. TRIBBLE Cryptic and their grind.

Knowing the tides mission only runs once an hour on the hour I waited to re-enter Q's WW until 3 minutes before the hour and went directly to the mission.

I was surprised at how much fun and fast paced the mission was. Took me back to City of Heroes. This mission would have fit in well there and been loved by all.

When tides ended I immediately logged out. TRIBBLE Cryptics time gate, and spent the time between missions watching some TV and reading. Only logging into Q's WW two minutes before the hour to run Tides 4 more times.

At the end of my fifth run I trotted over to the vendor and bought me a pair of boots, a bat'leth, and a kit module.

The only PITA about Tides is the stupid time gate between runs. The mission itself didn't feel grindy. If it weren't for the time gate I'd spend several hours each day doing that mission on different alts just cuz it's fun. As it is I'm done and not going back.

Watch them counter this by making the event timer random next year.

bobtheskull99

stoleviathan99 wrote: »

Watch them counter this by making the event timer random next year.

you mean the way the dyson and undine BGs are now?

paxfederatica

My strategy for coping is to only do WW on one of my five toons, as I did for the Summer Event on a different toon. I'm also only doing the Delta Rising stuff on yet another different toom. (I'll eventually do DR on all of them, but for now just the one.)

daveyny

They've fix it.
See the new Tribble patch notes...

It is Account Unlocked now. (well.. soon will be when it hits the Holodeck)

Still have to do it 10 times to make all items available, but only once per account.

:cool:

errab

I agree with the OP.

If Cryptic needed to make us grind something 10x to unlock the new Cores then why not just make the requirement any 10 winter wonderland events?

Heck, I'd even go one further and say any 10 events not including the race itself.

It seems like Cryptic at this point is not even trying to find the common ground between hitting their numbers while trying to keep the players happy while doing it.

Who's ever making these types of decisions at Cryptic needs to really sit back and reevaluate their thought process.

If the numbers are all that matter, then sooner or later numbers will be all you have.

sentinel64

Thank Tribble Claus, the Tides of Ice 10x run will become an one-player account unlock for the vendor access. Yes, Trekkies... there is a Tribble Claus.