How is this Cryptic's problem again? It reads to me like like you rolled with a group of high-shooters. If it was a PUG, then it's an anomaly.
I am sorry for the grethore's experience and I believe he is a victim of badly designed system.
And no, group of high-shooters in normal PUG is not an anomaly nowadays, because who wants to PUG, or who has to PUG, he has to PUG normal missions. Advanced are non-PUG-able at the moment due to mandatory optionals. With honorable exception of Infected or Crystalline. This is also nicely visible in the queue window that those are the two advanced queues that show by far the highest number of active players at any given moment.
I almost exclusively PUG. I like the randomness of PUG. I fly Phantom with XII mixed reputation (counter-command phasers) and fleet gear (AMP core and vulnerability locators). I believe I do decent damage. I need two volleys to kill regular cube in Red Alert, sometimes one volley when I crit well. Still, the Infected is the only STF mission I PUG on advanced.
Vortex I don't pug on advanced because out of last 5 attempts 4 failed due to other side letting the probes through - mind that I was always returning and covering my side in Phantom, that is without GW, which is rather tedious and boring, but someone has to do it. And as one smart OP stated some time ago in this forum - if your PUG fails, it is you who failed. And I accept this responsibility, but I simply won't accept responsibility for both sides in Vortex PUG.
Cure Found I don't pug on advanced because out of last 5 attempts 4 times we were completely overrun by enemy.
I long for those days where I could chain-PUG HSE,ISE,KSE and CSE without any problem. That was fun. Sadly fun seemed to be going away a bit recently. I don't want to whine, there's still lot of fun in the game, but it is difficult to reconcile with some things gone away.
How is this Cryptic's problem again? It reads to me like like you rolled with a group of high-shooters. If it was a PUG, then it's an anomaly.
Its cryptic's problem because this is their design and the hole in their design is the autofails which no one likes to be punished.
I had a fail yesterday in borg disconnected advanced which rewarded me exactly 0 of anything. Who in their right mind would go play such a game when they can get marks easier and faster in normal. (punishing failure does not work its a gaming no no and cryptic needs to fix this. )
This is indeed their problem because I guarantee you if the advanced was not kicking people out after 10 seconds of play in some cases (me i got half way through before we failed the second set of objectives by 1 and still got nothing) is bad bad form. It does not engage or encourage people so people who should be in advanced who are just after a daily mark bonus are hitting up normals and then not playing anything.
This is indeed their problem and they need to fix it because he would not run into this if the advanced was properly set up. Higher dps builds would be in advanced and eventually elite if they wanted to try it.
I dont think i would blame Cryptic entirely. But they do share part of the blame for the current state of pug instance queues. For the stuff that the OP just experienced here is where i would lay blame:
1) overgeared/overskilled players who belong in adv/elite mode but instead do normal
2) undergeared/underskilled players who belong in normal mode but instead do adv/elite
3) Cryptic
What is driving player #1 out of adv and elite? rewards not worth it? that is something Cryptic can fix. Trolls messing up their runs? thats something Cryptic can fix too if they would police and punish trollish behavior. Player(s) #2 messing up adv/elite runs? that is something that player #2 can fix but only if they are willing. It is something Cryptic can fix if they do something like putting an item level requirements for adv and elite (and we all know how popular that would be). Premades are an option that player #1 can take but even though it is an option i think that it is BS that they should even have to do that. They have as much of a right to be in pug queues as anyone (assuming they are in the appropriate difficulty).
Between players and devs, the devs have more power and are in a better position to change the situation. I mean i could promise to keep my geared up toon out of normal mode instances **slowly crosses fingers behind back** but what good is that when nobody else will do the same? Since i doubt that the pugging community will ever get their s**t together i will probably end up doing premades. I'm slowly getting myself ready for it...just got my Java installed and got the parser and logged an ICN and one of these days i will log an ICA run to see where i stand.
I used to regularly run all sorts of Elite STFs like many others. I don't even mind the difficulty. Cryptic nerfed the end rewards so badly that the risk/reward concerning time spent is abysmal. Far more efficient to run normal STFs and kick out a bunch of them quickly for marks/dilith. If i get a similarly expereinced/geared player in a pug, all the better but most I could solo.
I didn't ask for end reward nerfs. that's Cryptic's thing. I'm just playing the game with the rules they set up. They made Advanced/Elite a *lot* more time consuming/"harder" and cut the rewards to boot concerning dilithium.
I do feel bad for the OP, however.I get his sentiment exactly. He/she feels like they're getting the short end of the stick...just like a lot of us.
Jerk move on their part and sucks to hear, but its not like Cryptic is going to deliberately target their biggest spenders / flying powercreep advertisements. There is that Star Trek Battles channel where they deliberately dial it back for a more TV-like experience, but I think they have assorted build rules so depends what you're doing. But yeah, some people are just actively jerks and showoffs, and others don't even realize they're doing it or can't comprehend why you wouldn't be grateful for their doing everything for you. Can certainly be frustrating.
It's rare but can happen when DPS crowd gets bored.
Only way to insure you don't get the AFK penalty is to actually do more than 5% of the total damage in the map.
It's this mechanic that ruins the game for pure tanks, healers and CC players on top of these roles are completely unnecessary as well.
The Star Trek Battles channel is not intended for low DPS, however that's what happens with many of their builds. a build according to their standards can easily hit 15-20k DPS, and will cause AFK incidents behind the right players. Many of the people involved have no idea how to make a canon build, hence the reputation of a low DPS system.
Well this is a little thing that many people like to call PUGstomping. Basically, high DPS players get a team of 3 or 4 together and enter the easier queues with the sole intent of giving the pug(s) an AFK penalty. It is kind of a **** move. Though the best way to combat this is to go in with pre-made teams of people that won't do that to you. fleets are good for this. A good place to form this team is from the channel DPS-Public. the sole intent of this channel is to help boost your damage output and prevent incidints such as OP put in.
TheGrateLordeCheesus Ship build coordinator for The Breakfast Club http://WWW.TBCSTO.COM Doesn't Owe AnyoneEC Kirks Prot
You do realize all you have to do to avoid an afk penalty is about 1% of the damage for the map. Just 1%, if your not able to do that then that's your problem, no one should feel bad for you, your not ready to play even normal stfs. If I can take a brand new character with nothing but uncommon TRIBBLE gear and do 20-30k dps you should atleast be able to handle doing 1% of the total damage for the map.
Do people in the 30-40k range hit up normal? i dont know let me ask sarcasmdetector if that was her i saw in an FFAN run a few weeks ago or if there is another @sarcasmdetector in game.
It's not hard to gear for Normal queues, the problem is when you are geared for normal and a group of 2-4 Elite runners jump in for a quick mark run. That's the scenario here. They weren't insulting or harmful to the dude in any way, however he wasn't able to participate due to the DPS output of the high DPS dude's.
No-one present in that scenario is at fault. One is trying to gear up in a manner that is designed. The others are trying to gain dilithium and marks in the most efficient manner.
The only ones who can bear fault are those who setup the balance mechanics for the game. When it's more efficient to run Normal when geared for Elite, the balance is wrong. When that impacts on someone trying to gear up to get to Advanced but can't get a shot in due to it being more efficient for Elite geared players to play through Normal, how is that the fault of those players?
This... highlights the problem.... the reward v. time-investment dynamic is still off. When people are looking for marks and are pugging even a well geared player is likely to hit up normal to get them, as pugging advanced or elite many times is begging to leave you with nothing but a 10 favor thanks for trying prize and a 1hr cooldown for your trouble.
Ok, simply put. Queue for The Cure Space normal. Get in I fly out first to go attack the BoP coming from the right cube area. Two seconds later, boom cubes dead and all the gens are dead..as are all the raptors that spawn as well. About 10 seconds later, Far left cube goes up in smoke, and a few seconds later, the middle one is dead. And all this is long before I can even fly from the first to the second or 3rd cubes. Errr, ok, I'll hail the Kang. Done. Ok. I actually pulled aggro first on the assimilated carrier first, but 5 seconds later it's dead too along with the 2 spheres with it.
And this is where I get a sweet little message. "You have been assigned an AFK penalty for not participating enough." WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How the heck can I "participate enough" when people with all XIV gear and T6/T5u ships are in a NORMAL STF and kill everything faster than I can scratch their paint jobs?
So, in essense, I got the AFK penalty because I: A. was a newer character B. Am in the gearing up process. C. cannot 1 shot everything in sight.
Is that the jist of it? How wonderful that is that new characters are now punished for existing. I supposed EVERYONE is supposed to instantly have XIV gear on T6/T5u ships.
I mean, I was a little perturbed before while on my decently geared characters and there were other more geared players coming into the normal STF and 1 shotting everything, but atleast I could put some hurt on of my own. Now that I'm on a newer character, and am not even ready for the harder content, I can't do it because I won't get any Dilith or marks AND I'll get a nice fat little 2 hour STF ban.
How about forcing high geared players into the appropriate difficulty level so they can't TRIBBLE over newer players like this? Did you guys at Cryptic even think this whole thing through? At all? Talk about frustrating.
Yeah, really sorry about that. We didn't mean to afk you--truly.
We were theory testing and you got caught up. That was not our intent, so that one is on me. Come find me in game and I'll make it up to you.
This is golden !
So elites aren't doing 'their' content, they're pugging normals and complaining about afk'ers in the elite queues and forcing penalties on those playing the content that was designed for them.
Just wait OP till you get an afk penalty when you get a server boot after putting in your 15 minutes work in the stf, when you reconnect.
This is golden !
So elites aren't doing 'their' content, they're pugging normals and complaining about afk'ers in the elite queues and forcing penalties on those playing the content that was designed for them.
Just wait OP till you get an afk penalty when you get a server boot after putting in your 15 minutes work in the stf, when you reconnect.
lol why would you go into a q which is 'hard' when you can go into one where you can one shot everything. The point being everyone wants to feel powerful and be on top and what better place to be on top but in a zone where you are over geared and can kill stuff before the other guy even flies to that location cause you know he has gear that is green and white and slower engines as a result..
You do realize all you have to do to avoid an afk penalty is about 1% of the damage for the map. Just 1%, if your not able to do that then that's your problem, no one should feel bad for you, your not ready to play even normal stfs. If I can take a brand new character with nothing but uncommon TRIBBLE gear and do 20-30k dps you should atleast be able to handle doing 1% of the total damage for the map.
Good, someone else said it first!
I agree with this statement, as the required amount of dps/dmg to avoid an afk penalty is very little.
So little in fact, I have to wonder how someone could get a penalty if they are actually contributing and, not sitting there doing virtually nothing but flying around looking pretty or, worse yet leeching the whole time.
As an experiment, I put a T3 ship (with whatever random white->blue X to XII gear I had lying around) on 'autoattack', and 'target enemies who have attacked you', put engines to full, and set it to /follow another ship in CCA.
After that input, I stayed entirely away from my keyboard.
To my surprise, not only did I avoid the AFK penalty, I also got fourth place.
This... highlights the problem.... the reward v. time-investment dynamic is still off. When people are looking for marks and are pugging even a well geared player is likely to hit up normal to get them, as pugging advanced or elite many times is begging to leave you with nothing but a 10 favor thanks for trying prize and a 1hr cooldown for your trouble.
I do not understand this. Players that can clobber a STF in 3 min can do an advanced for twice the dil in no worse than 2 times the time AND there is a blasted STF cooldown anyway.
It makes more sense to me to run the advanced for the extra dil and better crafting mats (EC if nothing else) and a higher (is it 100%?) chance of a rep-item that can be converted to dil as well. Normals across the board seem to be less efficient if you can DO the advanced quickly, and a group that can do this one fast enough to get the new guy an AFK penalty is surely going to be able to accomplish them on advanced at a good pace.
I do not understand this. Players that can clobber a STF in 3 min can do an advanced for twice the dil in no worse than 2 times the time AND there is a blasted STF cooldown anyway.
It makes more sense to me to run the advanced for the extra dil and better crafting mats (EC if nothing else) and a higher (is it 100%?) chance of a rep-item that can be converted to dil as well. Normals across the board seem to be less efficient if you can DO the advanced quickly, and a group that can do this one fast enough to get the new guy an AFK penalty is surely going to be able to accomplish them on advanced at a good pace.
If all they ran was normals then yes it wouldn't make a lot of sense BUT to occasionally go into a normal to wow the mortals is fun.
As an experiment, I put a T3 ship (with whatever random white->blue X to XII gear I had lying around) on 'autoattack', and 'target enemies who have attacked you', put engines to full, and set it to /follow another ship in CCA.
After that input, I stayed entirely away from my keyboard.
To my surprise, not only did I avoid the AFK penalty, I also got fourth place.
So, no, the AFK penalty really isn't too harsh.
Thing is the OP is clearly new and still learning. Most of us are vets here who yes can run Normal in a team of Mirandas and still do just fine, but he's not there yet. Its just a courtesy thing and remembering that everyone was a newbie once.
Hey there, I can understand your frustration and I'm sorry to hear about ur experience.
I have the fortune that all my toons are at lvl 60 and are fully geared. After DR I doubt I ever bother with a new toon again.
Tention in endgame queues are pretty high atm because of the fail criteria. In order to contribute you have to.
- bring in DPS pre-requirenments not explained anywhere.
- Do not make mistakes that lead to instant fails.
- play after a community self evolved strategy not explained in game.
You are right the way the advanced/elite contend is handled endgame queued contend is a tough place to be for either new players or even veterans with new chars. The afk penalty is a joke the way it is implemented.
My advice for the time being is to play under the backup of the community you are in. So do we. I wish I could give you better advice but I have none to offer. At the moment almost are all queues are hardly playable in pugs because of fail risks and even reward poorly for pre-made teams. If i pug with a friend we only do so with high dps map cleaner builds. Suppose those u fell a victim to.
Excellent advice.
To the OP - yes, we share your frustrations. Imagine our shock when a previously elite builds and decent captains struggled during the first few days of the launch. Not to mention those of us who tried to upgrade everything in a day.
It's been a month and I finally feel competent in advanced queues. Cryptic is still 'adjusting' the game. In time you'll find the process easier to accept. Now please report to your assigned alcove for regeneration.
I do not understand this. Players that can clobber a STF in 3 min can do an advanced for twice the dil in no worse than 2 times the time AND there is a blasted STF cooldown anyway.
It makes more sense to me to run the advanced for the extra dil and better crafting mats (EC if nothing else) and a higher (is it 100%?) chance of a rep-item that can be converted to dil as well. Normals across the board seem to be less efficient if you can DO the advanced quickly, and a group that can do this one fast enough to get the new guy an AFK penalty is surely going to be able to accomplish them on advanced at a good pace.
There are much longer wait times getting into advanced queues due to lack of player involvement. Combined with higher failure rates in pugs due to blown optionals. Those factors drive puggers, even all geared out ones into doing content which guarantees finishing with a number of marks and dil, rather than being left with a small number of marks and no dil as a consolation prize along with the cooldown. I really do not fathom how you can not understand it.
Thing is the OP is clearly new and still learning. Most of us are vets here who yes can run Normal in a team of Mirandas and still do just fine, but he's not there yet. Its just a courtesy thing and remembering that everyone was a newbie once.
That's the thing though. I wasn't even using boff powers, rep equipment, or captain abilities.
I didn't even have control of my ship.
And somehow, I was still out-performing another player.
Yeah, there's being new at the game, but it seems like you'd have to actively try to be worse than literally not pressing a single button.
When you see one or more folks in a Normal that are obviously rocking DPS outside what others or yourself are doing...do you adjust your play though? Do you try to anticipate where you can best get in some shots and participate or do you throw your hands up in the air thinking about the thread you're going to start on the forums about it, eh?
I figure you more for looking at what you could do before running off to blame Cryptic...
So basically you are saying that it is the responsibility of the 'normal queu' level players to adjust their tactics when confronted with an unexpected group of level 60's doing a stomp run? Wow!
The gear stat difference alone between a fresh geared 50, who is in the correct instance for level, and the level 60 geared stomper just trying to farm is massive, even with the level reduction. You know the numbers, which is why I'm suprised you are jumping over this guy. Add to that new ship traits and specialisations and Its a pretty clear cut situation, especially if the lowbie isnt prepared for it. While I understand your earlier comment about perceived time, the speed at which a geared 60 can get on target compared to a fresh 50 makes a big difference, add an alpha style attack and yeah.. Boom!
The whole idea of the normal instances is to allow new characters to progress and learn 'the tactics' while they gear up and progress. The fact it is used to farm is secondary to intent, so I do believe this is a problem for cryptic to resolve. Running normals should not require players to adjust for the stomp runs of 60's. Why should a fresh 50 have need to think outside of the box or make adjustments for them, and they certainly shouldnt be penalised for it.
I dont have an issue with farming the runs, do them myself, however, until seeing this post, I was completely unaware of the unintentional effect it was having on some players. Another reason why this thread is, in my opinion, very valid.
*Didnt read all the way forward so not sure if these points have been said/answered/argued/re-answered or not? Sorry if they have Virus, having reading difficulties this evening, so just dropped my thoughts early
I hate to even mention this, but you could always report the stompers to the GM's. It's not an ideal solution but after enough reports are generated I'de guess the GM's might refer the problem to the devs for a possible solution.
So basically you are saying that it is the responsibility of the 'normal queu' level players to adjust their tactics when confronted with an unexpected group of level 60's doing a stomp run? Wow!
The gear stat difference alone between a fresh geared 50, who is in the correct instance for level, and the level 60 geared stomper just trying to farm is massive, even with the level reduction. You know the numbers, which is why I'm suprised you are jumping over this guy. Add to that new ship traits and specialisations and Its a pretty clear cut situation, especially if the lowbie isnt prepared for it. While I understand your earlier comment about perceived time, the speed at which a geared 60 can get on target compared to a fresh 50 makes a big difference, add an alpha style attack and yeah.. Boom!
The whole idea of the normal instances is to allow new characters to progress and learn 'the tactics' while they gear up and progress. The fact it is used to farm is secondary to intent, so I do believe this is a problem for cryptic to resolve. Running normals should not require players to adjust for the stomp runs of 60's. Why should a fresh 50 have need to think outside of the box or make adjustments for them, and they certainly shouldnt be penalised for it.
I dont have an issue with farming the runs, do them myself, however, until seeing this post, I was completely unaware of the unintentional effect it was having on some players. Another reason why this post is, in my opinion, very valid.
*Didnt read all the way forward so not sure if these points have been said/answered/argued/re-answered or not? Sorry if they have, having reading difficulties this evening, so just dropped my thoughts early
The point is you have to do so little damage to avoid that afk penalty that even a poorly equiped person who is relatively new to the game should be able to avoid it. You have to do roughly 1% of the total damage for a map to avoid being afked, its been tested. If you can't manage to do 1% of the damage even with a bunch of high dps players your either not trying or bought a character preleveled from one of those places. I cannot see how anyone who played the content up to level 50 could manage to not pull 1% of the damage.
I will give you this is poor design on cryptic's part, but really what do you expect, they are always terrible with this kinda filter. Just remember the fiasco a year or so ago when they where auto banning people for saying a certain word in chat, but then there banning bot started hitting people for all kinds of random things. By cryptic standards they probably think this afk filter is well built.
I hate to even mention this, but you could always report the stompers to the GM's. It's not an ideal solution but after enough reports are generated I'de guess the GM's might refer the problem to the devs for a possible solution.
So... guys that are killing stuff well in this DPS oriented game are to be reported?
The point is you have to do so little damage to avoid that afk penalty that even a poorly equiped person who is relatively new to the game should be able to avoid it. You have to do roughly 1% of the total damage for a map to avoid being afked, its been tested. If you can't manage to do 1% of the damage even with a bunch of high dps players your either not trying or bought a character preleveled from one of those places. I cannot see how anyone who played the content up to level 50 could manage to not pull 1% of the damage.
I will give you this is poor design on cryptic's part, but really what do you expect, they are always terrible with this kinda filter. Just remember the fiasco a year or so ago when they where auto banning people for saying a certain word in chat, but then there banning bot started hitting people for all kinds of random things. By cryptic standards they probably think this afk filter is well built.
I do remember that auto banning issue, bots gone wild lol, and you do make a good point. Pretty often though, epsecially on a new toon or lacking any communications from the team, I'll hold back to see where players are moving too, and try and decide what best to do. I sometimes end up with more questions than a direction to fly in lol. So say 2 players have gone to the right, 1 to the left and 1 to the centre.. Hmm, where should I go? or Nobody covering Kang.. Should I go there? 2 very simple, very innocent, potential situations resulting in a possible 0% dps with a stomp team.
So... guys that are killing stuff well in this DPS oriented game are to be reported?
Most certainly not, there should be no need to report stompers, or even consider the issue as a player problem, after all, they are just making use of the same in game system as everyone else. You really cant blame a player for the games balance and tuning issues.
Yes I'm experienced but my fresh level 50 Engineer in the Science Odyssey hits 11k and my level 50 Science character in a torpedo boat hits 14k. TORPEDOES!
No special consoles are traits really.
I dont think we are really talking about a dps race here, we are talking about getting on target, putting damage on the table and avoiding the leavers penalty, in a very specific situation.
*sorry guys, words are swimming now, and I have 10 thumbs lol, I'll come back to the thread later if the discussion is still running
So basically you are saying that it is the responsibility of the 'normal queu' level players to adjust their tactics when confronted with an unexpected group of level 60's doing a stomp run? Wow!
I dont have an issue with farming the runs, do them myself, however, until seeing this post, I was completely unaware of the unintentional effect it was having on some players. Another reason why this thread is, in my opinion, very valid.
I do it too and so does everyone
.... but yeah a person who knows exactly where to go and what to shoot first in a level 60 ship with nice engines and all kinds of skillpoints here and there is going to move a heck of a lot faster then a new guy who is in a t4 ship with basically what others would consider vendor trash.. Having just levelled up a level 60 like this I was extremely impatient with the speed my level 50 with his free ship moved in comparison to the rest of my guys and I knew what to do.. it didnt change the fact that people who are geared to the teeth and level 60 in t5 and t6 ships could get out of the gate at least twice as fast as me and the target would be dead by the time i got a chance to even get to it.
add the purple doffs and other bits and even my level 60 in his old vo'q carrier could move faster then my little new romulan in a t4 ship and mark x and mark xi vendor trash. There is a huge huge difference between fully decked out characters with doffs and nice gear and reputation stuff and now the new specializations and some poor sap with bare bones everything.
Comments
I am sorry for the grethore's experience and I believe he is a victim of badly designed system.
And no, group of high-shooters in normal PUG is not an anomaly nowadays, because who wants to PUG, or who has to PUG, he has to PUG normal missions. Advanced are non-PUG-able at the moment due to mandatory optionals. With honorable exception of Infected or Crystalline. This is also nicely visible in the queue window that those are the two advanced queues that show by far the highest number of active players at any given moment.
I almost exclusively PUG. I like the randomness of PUG. I fly Phantom with XII mixed reputation (counter-command phasers) and fleet gear (AMP core and vulnerability locators). I believe I do decent damage. I need two volleys to kill regular cube in Red Alert, sometimes one volley when I crit well. Still, the Infected is the only STF mission I PUG on advanced.
Vortex I don't pug on advanced because out of last 5 attempts 4 failed due to other side letting the probes through - mind that I was always returning and covering my side in Phantom, that is without GW, which is rather tedious and boring, but someone has to do it. And as one smart OP stated some time ago in this forum - if your PUG fails, it is you who failed. And I accept this responsibility, but I simply won't accept responsibility for both sides in Vortex PUG.
Cure Found I don't pug on advanced because out of last 5 attempts 4 times we were completely overrun by enemy.
I long for those days where I could chain-PUG HSE,ISE,KSE and CSE without any problem. That was fun. Sadly fun seemed to be going away a bit recently. I don't want to whine, there's still lot of fun in the game, but it is difficult to reconcile with some things gone away.
Its cryptic's problem because this is their design and the hole in their design is the autofails which no one likes to be punished.
I had a fail yesterday in borg disconnected advanced which rewarded me exactly 0 of anything. Who in their right mind would go play such a game when they can get marks easier and faster in normal. (punishing failure does not work its a gaming no no and cryptic needs to fix this. )
This is indeed their problem because I guarantee you if the advanced was not kicking people out after 10 seconds of play in some cases (me i got half way through before we failed the second set of objectives by 1 and still got nothing) is bad bad form. It does not engage or encourage people so people who should be in advanced who are just after a daily mark bonus are hitting up normals and then not playing anything.
This is indeed their problem and they need to fix it because he would not run into this if the advanced was properly set up. Higher dps builds would be in advanced and eventually elite if they wanted to try it.
I used to regularly run all sorts of Elite STFs like many others. I don't even mind the difficulty. Cryptic nerfed the end rewards so badly that the risk/reward concerning time spent is abysmal. Far more efficient to run normal STFs and kick out a bunch of them quickly for marks/dilith. If i get a similarly expereinced/geared player in a pug, all the better but most I could solo.
I didn't ask for end reward nerfs. that's Cryptic's thing. I'm just playing the game with the rules they set up. They made Advanced/Elite a *lot* more time consuming/"harder" and cut the rewards to boot concerning dilithium.
I do feel bad for the OP, however.I get his sentiment exactly. He/she feels like they're getting the short end of the stick...just like a lot of us.
Well this is a little thing that many people like to call PUGstomping. Basically, high DPS players get a team of 3 or 4 together and enter the easier queues with the sole intent of giving the pug(s) an AFK penalty. It is kind of a **** move. Though the best way to combat this is to go in with pre-made teams of people that won't do that to you. fleets are good for this. A good place to form this team is from the channel DPS-Public. the sole intent of this channel is to help boost your damage output and prevent incidints such as OP put in.
Ship build coordinator for The Breakfast Club http://WWW.TBCSTO.COM
Doesn't Owe Anyone EC
Kirks Prot
RnD and upgrade needs less RNG. Less lottery. Something has to change.
Yes i do FFA all the time for:
1. quick and easy Fleet Marks.
2. test out new ships
3. it great for making action videos like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbAJm7k4I60
There is no "Advanced" FFA. Additionally the normal queues are great places to recruit for the DPS channels.
edit: also i'm not in the 30-40k range. i'm in the 50-60k range. 17x and all that...
This... highlights the problem.... the reward v. time-investment dynamic is still off. When people are looking for marks and are pugging even a well geared player is likely to hit up normal to get them, as pugging advanced or elite many times is begging to leave you with nothing but a 10 favor thanks for trying prize and a 1hr cooldown for your trouble.
Yeah, really sorry about that. We didn't mean to afk you--truly.
We were theory testing and you got caught up. That was not our intent, so that one is on me. Come find me in game and I'll make it up to you.
TBF though, there were only 2 of us in there.
Porch
DPS Channels / League Info (STO Forums)
This is golden !
So elites aren't doing 'their' content, they're pugging normals and complaining about afk'ers in the elite queues and forcing penalties on those playing the content that was designed for them.
Just wait OP till you get an afk penalty when you get a server boot after putting in your 15 minutes work in the stf, when you reconnect.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
lol why would you go into a q which is 'hard' when you can go into one where you can one shot everything. The point being everyone wants to feel powerful and be on top and what better place to be on top but in a zone where you are over geared and can kill stuff before the other guy even flies to that location cause you know he has gear that is green and white and slower engines as a result..
Good, someone else said it first!
I agree with this statement, as the required amount of dps/dmg to avoid an afk penalty is very little.
So little in fact, I have to wonder how someone could get a penalty if they are actually contributing and, not sitting there doing virtually nothing but flying around looking pretty or, worse yet leeching the whole time.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
After that input, I stayed entirely away from my keyboard.
To my surprise, not only did I avoid the AFK penalty, I also got fourth place.
So, no, the AFK penalty really isn't too harsh.
Kind of entertaining statement there. I thought people played STO to play Star Trek, not Ground Trek
I do not understand this. Players that can clobber a STF in 3 min can do an advanced for twice the dil in no worse than 2 times the time AND there is a blasted STF cooldown anyway.
It makes more sense to me to run the advanced for the extra dil and better crafting mats (EC if nothing else) and a higher (is it 100%?) chance of a rep-item that can be converted to dil as well. Normals across the board seem to be less efficient if you can DO the advanced quickly, and a group that can do this one fast enough to get the new guy an AFK penalty is surely going to be able to accomplish them on advanced at a good pace.
If all they ran was normals then yes it wouldn't make a lot of sense BUT to occasionally go into a normal to wow the mortals is fun.
Thing is the OP is clearly new and still learning. Most of us are vets here who yes can run Normal in a team of Mirandas and still do just fine, but he's not there yet. Its just a courtesy thing and remembering that everyone was a newbie once.
Excellent advice.
To the OP - yes, we share your frustrations. Imagine our shock when a previously elite builds and decent captains struggled during the first few days of the launch. Not to mention those of us who tried to upgrade everything in a day.
It's been a month and I finally feel competent in advanced queues. Cryptic is still 'adjusting' the game. In time you'll find the process easier to accept. Now please report to your assigned alcove for regeneration.
There are much longer wait times getting into advanced queues due to lack of player involvement. Combined with higher failure rates in pugs due to blown optionals. Those factors drive puggers, even all geared out ones into doing content which guarantees finishing with a number of marks and dil, rather than being left with a small number of marks and no dil as a consolation prize along with the cooldown. I really do not fathom how you can not understand it.
That's the thing though. I wasn't even using boff powers, rep equipment, or captain abilities.
I didn't even have control of my ship.
And somehow, I was still out-performing another player.
Yeah, there's being new at the game, but it seems like you'd have to actively try to be worse than literally not pressing a single button.
So basically you are saying that it is the responsibility of the 'normal queu' level players to adjust their tactics when confronted with an unexpected group of level 60's doing a stomp run? Wow!
The gear stat difference alone between a fresh geared 50, who is in the correct instance for level, and the level 60 geared stomper just trying to farm is massive, even with the level reduction. You know the numbers, which is why I'm suprised you are jumping over this guy. Add to that new ship traits and specialisations and Its a pretty clear cut situation, especially if the lowbie isnt prepared for it. While I understand your earlier comment about perceived time, the speed at which a geared 60 can get on target compared to a fresh 50 makes a big difference, add an alpha style attack and yeah.. Boom!
The whole idea of the normal instances is to allow new characters to progress and learn 'the tactics' while they gear up and progress. The fact it is used to farm is secondary to intent, so I do believe this is a problem for cryptic to resolve. Running normals should not require players to adjust for the stomp runs of 60's. Why should a fresh 50 have need to think outside of the box or make adjustments for them, and they certainly shouldnt be penalised for it.
I dont have an issue with farming the runs, do them myself, however, until seeing this post, I was completely unaware of the unintentional effect it was having on some players. Another reason why this thread is, in my opinion, very valid.
*Didnt read all the way forward so not sure if these points have been said/answered/argued/re-answered or not? Sorry if they have Virus, having reading difficulties this evening, so just dropped my thoughts early
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
The point is you have to do so little damage to avoid that afk penalty that even a poorly equiped person who is relatively new to the game should be able to avoid it. You have to do roughly 1% of the total damage for a map to avoid being afked, its been tested. If you can't manage to do 1% of the damage even with a bunch of high dps players your either not trying or bought a character preleveled from one of those places. I cannot see how anyone who played the content up to level 50 could manage to not pull 1% of the damage.
I will give you this is poor design on cryptic's part, but really what do you expect, they are always terrible with this kinda filter. Just remember the fiasco a year or so ago when they where auto banning people for saying a certain word in chat, but then there banning bot started hitting people for all kinds of random things. By cryptic standards they probably think this afk filter is well built.
So... guys that are killing stuff well in this DPS oriented game are to be reported?
I do remember that auto banning issue, bots gone wild lol, and you do make a good point. Pretty often though, epsecially on a new toon or lacking any communications from the team, I'll hold back to see where players are moving too, and try and decide what best to do. I sometimes end up with more questions than a direction to fly in lol. So say 2 players have gone to the right, 1 to the left and 1 to the centre.. Hmm, where should I go? or Nobody covering Kang.. Should I go there? 2 very simple, very innocent, potential situations resulting in a possible 0% dps with a stomp team.
Most certainly not, there should be no need to report stompers, or even consider the issue as a player problem, after all, they are just making use of the same in game system as everyone else. You really cant blame a player for the games balance and tuning issues.
I dont think we are really talking about a dps race here, we are talking about getting on target, putting damage on the table and avoiding the leavers penalty, in a very specific situation.
*sorry guys, words are swimming now, and I have 10 thumbs lol, I'll come back to the thread later if the discussion is still running
I do it too and so does everyone
.... but yeah a person who knows exactly where to go and what to shoot first in a level 60 ship with nice engines and all kinds of skillpoints here and there is going to move a heck of a lot faster then a new guy who is in a t4 ship with basically what others would consider vendor trash.. Having just levelled up a level 60 like this I was extremely impatient with the speed my level 50 with his free ship moved in comparison to the rest of my guys and I knew what to do.. it didnt change the fact that people who are geared to the teeth and level 60 in t5 and t6 ships could get out of the gate at least twice as fast as me and the target would be dead by the time i got a chance to even get to it.
add the purple doffs and other bits and even my level 60 in his old vo'q carrier could move faster then my little new romulan in a t4 ship and mark x and mark xi vendor trash. There is a huge huge difference between fully decked out characters with doffs and nice gear and reputation stuff and now the new specializations and some poor sap with bare bones everything.