Warp Core Breach

seazombie64

Why does killing an enemy ship cause a warp core breach every time? Canon has many examples of dead ships in various stages of damage, and in TOS there were dead ships with no visible damage. Maybe TOS can be explained by special effects limitations or budget, but the other canon shows partially destroyed ships.
The graphic already exists in STO, for the ships we only "disable". I would like to see this implemented so sometimes ships are killed without breaching. Breaches can and should still happen, maybe even most of the time, but not every time.

rahmkota19

Why is this happening? To make sure you keep your distance when killing an enemy. Especially a group of enemies.

That, or to make Lootfoundry even more simple.

Besides, explosions are cool.

And the graphic for about 3 disabled, ripped apart ships exist. However, not the transfer from mob to object with a different skin altogether.


Personally, I'd say that the devs that are responsible for this (both ship combat coders as model designers) have better things to do.

bobtheskull99

this has been brought up quite a bit

imo gameplay wise I think disabling ships is a hassle, no loot drops and the disabled ship will just clutter the battle area while you un-target it in favor of a ship that's still attacking

the most annoying part of running argali patrol is I focus on the flagship first, it hits low hp, gets disabled and I have to "fumble" re-targeting the remaining enemys

I really don't care if mobs blow up everytime, its a small price to pay for smoother gameplay

breadandcircuses

The short answer is that they want you to have to buy ships. If we could disable enemy vessels, the next question is: Why can't we board enemy vessels? If we are given the ability to board enemy vessels, the next question is: Why can't we capture enemy vessels? If we can capture enemy vessels, the next question is: Why can't we fly enemy vessels? Oh, and what exactly do I do with the crew? It's a whole can of worms.

Seriously, my Nausicaan would have his own personal fleet of captured vessels just as a way of enjoying the life of a Pirate. Prize ships ftw! Okay, maybe High Command might insist that I turn over captured vessels for analysis, but at least I'd be allotted a share of the worth of the captured prize. Of course, access to prize ships might help KDF ship designers get off their collective afts and start introducing the technological advancements necessary to keep up with the other major powers.

Naturally, my Nausicaan might also hang on to a few of the captured crew. Maybe lock a Vulcan in a clear, sound-dampened cage. Stick the cage in a locked stateroom with a Pakled and a nice meal, and ensure that the Pakled was the only one capable of opening the cage... by solving logic problems. Oh yeah, I'd get that Vulcan singing like a canary.

Oh, TRIBBLE, we're at peace... fine, you can have your frustrated Vulcan and confused Pakled back. The Vulcan might need therapy, though. Good thing you have all those Counselor doffs. :P

TL;DR: If we could actually disable ships, there would be a whole host of questions that would follow. What do we do with the crew, salvage, technology, information, or the ship itself? Oh, wait, it blew up... no need to figure all that out. :P

janus1975

Because the game's a fantasy-model MMO first and foremost, and Star Trek a distant second.

Let's say that STO was heavily based on Star Trek: battles would be few and far between; firing weapons would involve usually a single phaser at a time like this; and ships would most often be ambused, disabled, or talked around. Of course, all this means much more writing and far fewer missions with battle "filler", which would make it more expensive to produce.

EDIT: In terms of issues like loot drops, a primarily Star Trek-based MMO would e.g. not have loot drops at all but rather "renown" for Starfleet, "Honor" for KDF, "Intel" for Romulans, and I'd like to see a Trader 'faction' using Latinum. You'd also have far less opportunity to use non-faction weaponry, or maybe as "experimental" requiring a level of "lifetime X points", or diplo points with that faction (a la the Defiant cloaking device with on-board Rommie to keep a beady suspicious eye on you). It could be a lot of fun, but it would be an awful lot of ground-up work rather than just going for the fantasy-MMO foundation and making Star Trek themes to fit.

duncanidaho11

breadandcircuses wrote: »

The short answer is that they want you to have to buy ships. If we could disable enemy vessels, the next question is: Why can't we board enemy vessels? If we are given the ability to board enemy vessels, the next question is: Why can't we capture enemy vessels? If we can capture enemy vessels, the next question is: Why can't we fly enemy vessels? Oh, and what exactly do I do with the crew? It's a whole can of worms.

Possibly but here's the alternative: chuck disable. Why not have a warp core breach (a la the Ent D stardrive section in Generations) happen when a ship is killed with a critical hit but otherwise have it go up in the flashy pyrotechnics of a standard explosion (a la the BOP in generations.)

Its a single change that doesn't entertain a slippery slope of additional mechanics that still performs the key function of "the same thing doesn't always happen when a ship goes boom (also: warp core breaches are special)."

breadandcircuses

duncanidaho11 wrote: »

Possibly but here's the alternative: chuck disable. Why not have a warp core breach (a la the Ent D stardrive section in Generations) happen when a ship is killed with a critical hit but otherwise have it go up in the flashy pyrotechnics of a standard explosion (a la the BOP in generations.)

Its a single change that doesn't entertain a slippery slope of additional mechanics that still performs the key function of "the same thing doesn't always happen when a ship goes boom (also: warp core breaches are special)."

So you're thinking more along the lines of having different sized explosions based on whether something is merely blown up compared to when the warp core goes critical? I could get behind that.

While it's just my own way of looking at things, I always considered the standard explosions to be the little boom and the Abandon Ship explosion to the the actual warp core breach BOOM. Come to think of it, are there even NPCs that use Abandon Ship? If not, we need those... that would be interesting for the first few encounters.

Of course, the AI would have to be smart enough not to do it when clustered in a Gravity Well, since it would be silly to try taking their allies with them...

duncanidaho11

breadandcircuses wrote: »

So you're thinking more along the lines of having different sized explosions based on whether something is merely blown up compared to when the warp core goes critical? I could get behind that.

While it's just my own way of looking at things, I always considered the standard explosions to be the little boom and the Abandon Ship explosion to the the actual warp core breach BOOM. Come to think of it, are there even NPCs that use Abandon Ship? If not, we need those... that would be interesting for the first few encounters.

Of course, the AI would have to be smart enough not to do it when clustered in a Gravity Well, since it would be silly to try taking their allies with them...

You could wrap in the Abandon Ship ability into a "standard boom on normal death, warp core breach on critical" mechanic. You can set it where if you abandon ship, you guarantee a core on death or after a noticable self-destruct timer (to give people a better chance of breaking off given a more impactful result).

kayajay

I would use Self Destruct more, IF you then weren't penalised for it...having to wait longer and longer each time after to respawn. Since it's an "ability", it should be an instantaneous respawn.

rahmkota19

duncanidaho11 wrote: »

Possibly but here's the alternative: chuck disable. Why not have a warp core breach (a la the Ent D stardrive section in Generations) happen when a ship is killed with a critical hit but otherwise have it go up in the flashy pyrotechnics of a standard explosion (a la the BOP in generations.)

Its a single change that doesn't entertain a slippery slope of additional mechanics that still performs the key function of "the same thing doesn't always happen when a ship goes boom (also: warp core breaches are special)."

Now this is an idea I like very much. And it should not be too hard to implement. I'm thinking of the current explosion for non-warp core breach, and the current explosion with something like a Photonic Shockwave for the warp core breach. It would be cool.

kayajay wrote: »

I would use Self Destruct more, IF you then weren't penalised for it...having to wait longer and longer each time after to respawn. Since it's an "ability", it should be an instantaneous respawn.

This would be overpowered. Instant respawns? No. This ability works as intented in my view. A last act of spite against your enemy, taking them with you. Ofcourse it does not stand up to Ramming speed, and that should get fixed.

seazombie64

rahmkota19 wrote: »

Now this is an idea I like very much. And it should not be too hard to implement. I'm thinking of the current explosion for non-warp core breach, and the current explosion with something like a Photonic Shockwave for the warp core breach. It would be cool.

I could get behind this as well as a compromise. I still don't buy the argument that we would be capturing and taking over damaged ships..there is a matter of cost vs benefit. A ship that is 80 percent destroyed, it wouldn't be worth the time/resources. We get drops on the ground from dead enemies as well as vaporized, so I don't see drops changing either.
While making the changes would be more canon, it occurred to me that it would increase screen clutter, which on an older system like mine wouldn't be a good thing.