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Advanced is not hard just punishing
zero2362
Member Posts: 436 Arc User
and that is why it fails. Its not that advanced is too difficult thats the problem. Its the multiple fail conditions as well as the cool-down on the que after every attempt as well as the lackluster rewards that make them too frustrating to be worth bothering with.
This video illustrates my point far better than I can
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea6UuRTjkKs
This video illustrates my point far better than I can
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea6UuRTjkKs
Post edited by zero2362 on
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PWE doesn't care about their core playerbase. If you haven't figured that out yet you seriously need to quit the internet.
The new Hitsponge Rising has actually reduced player choice and player freedom. Your possible options of participating in the game have shrunk more and more and the way in which you can participate has shrunk more and more. You can only play these missions, and when you do you can only kill 5x faster than you used to. If you can't hack that, GTFO. That's what the new "difficulty" levels are.
And many have, in fact, GTFO, as evidenced by the mass exodus. It's a failure of a system and everybody recognizes that. Even the devs are freaking about it in their own disconnected way.
If you're looking for a 'challenge' like the one described in the linked video, you need to play another game. The only actual 'challenge'(and even this IMO isn't) this game has is what you need for a build in order to be successful. After that, it's all about the space bar and a few other button pressing.
Edit: There are some queues that of course that you can do away with any DPS as per the poster above me, but there are only a handful like this(if that) and I wouldn't expect future content to be like this also.
I wonder why it and CCA are the only active PvE queues anymore.... Hrm...
(see the connection?)
It's not the players that have created this DPS race association. Cryptic did that. They did it in every aspect of the game, and in ever PvE queue. They simply "forgot" to hurt ANR like they did all the others.
No. The players started this dps dominant game design. They started it the minute they started complaining about how easy everything was. Yes, cryptic should have gone a different route for increasing difficulty, but ultimately its the players who couldn't be bothered with trying new builds and strategies who are the initial cause of our current game issues. Because all they care about is how fast they can kill so.ethi g with raw firepower. They comlained years ago when weapons werent doing enough damage, the complained when every T5 ship wasn't equipped with at least 3 tactical console slots and a ltcomm tactical station, and they complained about escorts needing flanking damage, and gaining more power when decloaking, and reduced cooldowns for abilities, and more weapon damage increase from tac consoles, etc etc. Then suddenly the content was too easy. Isn't that what they wanted? They didn't want to use teamwork, they weren't interested in having to try, and now they want to complain that the enemies they thought were too easy are now too hard and take too long to kill and hit too hard. Players, in general, are ****ing stupid.
I don't recall starting any of this, and doubt most of us do. Their solution to the hardcore players need for more difficulty is to increase ALL the difficulty. Perfect logic.
I do agree with you on one point. Some players are ****ing stupid. Glad I've never been *****. Not sure I could shoulder all the blame.
A better example is basically any Borg STF, specifically Into the Hive Ground. That is a straight DPS fest and if you don't have it, you fail and - as someone else said - are flipped off by the game for an hour.
I really like Into the Hive and the other Borg STFs but I can't stand doing them on Advanced because everyone needs to be doing insanely high DPS to pass them before the arbitrary timer runs out.
So yes, I feel like I'm being punished by Advanced, not challenged. And Normal is WAAAAAY too easy (and never has queues anyway).
Borg Disco doesn't even require that much teamwork.
With the right abilities (not firepower) I'd say this map can be three-manned without any problem or even two-manned up to the point of the dreads simply by playing cleverly and being at the right spot at the right time.
In fact not shooting at enemies is HELPING you, because by destroying the initial probes you only make harder enemies spawn sooner.
Spheres and Cubes tend to wipe the floor with Undine and Voth, get bored and attack you.
Probes are nicely balanced against Undine frigates and keep each other busy for minutes!!
maybe DPS + Teamwork works really well in ANRA.
Since I made a concientious effort to increase my dps, my success rate has increased exponentially. Most pugs are devoid of any team work so brute force was required to get me through. Now I play with folks that know what they are doing, and have dps so it's definitely a lot easier to play and enjoy sto. Doesn't change the fact that IF most players pug this game is in a lot of trouble if they keep things as is.
amen, did a Advance STF last night ( was testing out my sci op to see if I could hold the borg in place by myself on Infection) and because the team "knew" the objective and what not to do.... i.e don't kill a generator while the Cube is up or Don't kill a generator when the other 3 are at 90% or better. we were able to complete it. the dps wasn't uber but it was decent since no1 f'd up and spawned nanite spheres before it was time to.
For the most part the fails I see in Advance STF isn't a dps problem its players thinking Pre-DR STF which was "TRIBBLE optional objects, if we get it we get if not no big deal". You cant do that now. Now you need to know what the objective is and how to not fail it. OMG Cryptic wants ppl to understand the mechanics of an instance!?! Say it isn't so!
http://priorityonepodcast.com/po199/
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I stand corrected.
when something is punishing it is hard because you didnt get away with it easy, so i fail to see the difference on your thread title.
as for your quote i cant see the devs wanting to change anything because of an entitlement claim, you been around long enough to know that this is the type of thing they just havent responded to before or dont even notice, and challenging this assumption which fits some of the available proof that is observed over the years they do what they want, not what the player and community wants, case and point start of DR for 2 weeks was a nightmare before they changed some stuff themselves, its just as well they did, i doubt the community had anything to do with it as much as some would claim otherwise, but rather a business choice and the apology was just an easy scapegoat.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
You are really off the mark on your posts here.
Objectives are vastly ruled by DPS in this game. There is almost nothing you can't do here that DPS won't solve. It is bad game design.
You don't need team work for generators and timing, sure you can be lame if you are in a group full of other lame players and try to make that work, or you can simply out DPS everything.
Azure is one of the least DPS intense missions, and even there, just kill them and move on, why bother with all the trickier? You just know some tholian is going to zip by with BFAW on and interupt anyone.
Borg Disconnect is for simpletons.. seriously, even half decent fighter pets take the agro long enough for you to save the ships and move on.
The problem is, and won't change because its gone too far is that some people put out less than 1k DPS, others put out more than 100k. You can't balance that, you can't hinge difficulties around that, and nothing in this game will work at all until it is fixed. Fixing it, this late in the game is going to cause just as many people to leave..
There are some missions that have the right idea on how to design things, Azure is one but its just too simple. Several ground missions had potential, but its still a over simplified DPS race, why do it right when more DPS is always always always the right answer.
Why does KGE, CGE and IGE all have utility try tasks for plays, teamwork and coordinated effort while space never has any of that? The ground stuff is pretty basic work but at least its something.
At one point doing 4-6k DPS was a lot in this game, it wasn't possible to just out DPS everything, you needed to balance DPS, durability, threat and control to achieve your outcome as a team. With such insanity in power creep the devs have sold this game out $1 at a time. Its not possible to design missions that work properly, so they add in idiotic timers and failure conditions that make no sense, aren't fun and only encourage the sale of more lock boxes.. until it blew up in their face. Now its too late, they can't buy back the arms race they started, the only real way to fix it is to severely overhaul combat mechanics and put very real limits on what damage can be reached, because there is a limit to control and tanking already. The amount of people they'll lose is staggering either way.
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With all due respect, your White Knighting is showing. They didn't address jack or squat. They continue to bury themselves in their spreadsheet numbers and make false assumptions about cause and effect. They still aren't going to reverse several MASSIVELY bad changes that were placed into effect when DR released. They still aren't going to address the problems. Especially not on P1 (aka propoganda 1).
This. A thousand times this.
I do 4kish DPS (without really trying but I am making plans to get better) and yeah, that's not enough to beat anything. I get carried by people doing 50k.
I am specced as a tank mostly but MOST of the time, tanking is useless (I found it worked well in Borg Disconnected but like you said, anything can tank that).
I pug advanced stf often and everytime I failed it it was because:
1) someone does not know what to do
or
2) too many players have a ridiculous build not good for dps (often less than 5000), not good for support
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
In 2 groups there were 3 people each with less than 1500 dps.
This is about what ONE of my frigates does (1000 or so).
I'm not really sure how this is possible. Only equipping one weapon?
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I have yet to fail a DPS PuG, I can carry anything less than a true griefer in those and have yet to fail a single one.
I have yet to finish a Press 'F' PuG. I can handle mid solo in BDA but it doesn't matter because the teammates I had couldn't handle the other parts. I can handle tanking the tholians or pressing F in ANA but that doesn't matter either when you and another person rescue two ships and the other three players have yet to rescue a single one and the timer expires.
The simple fact of the matter is alot of STO players have absolutely no clue about the game mechanics nor the ability to adapt during the mission. At least those whom I have encountered in PuGs that is.
if you are doing 4k DPS then you are not a Tank. a Tank is supposed to generate and hold aggro while surviving said aggro. In this game aggro is about DPS.
With the exception of the 3 taunts available in this game (Obelisk consoles and the 2 warp shadows abilities) all the aggro mechanics in the game are multipliers of the aggro you get from DPSing.
A good tank build should be doing at least 10k DPS. 15-20k DPS is preferred.
This is the reason pets got nerfed. they where out performing sub 3k scrubs. Your mobulai where doing 3-4k per pet prior to the nerf.
And that's yet another argument for this game being 100% about DPS. I said specced as a tank, I didn't say I was all that effective since yes, everything is about DPS in this game. I can survive being beat on by 5 cubes and have zero issues.
This game is just a DPS fest now. What we're saying is that it shouldn't be (only) about that.
Raw data statistics is pretty much required. So we have to use 3rd party apps to even play this game?
If you are using a good weapon setup and even a few offensive boff abilities you should be able to both deal 10k DPS and be practically unkillable.
That is without worrying about all mk 14 gold gear or maxed out spec points.
Post your build. I promise it could easily be improved upon.
Indeed not, although I'm glad the dev actually addressed issues the interviewer was attempting to gloss over, it doesn't mean squat in terms of what will actually happen. I mean the devs always say one thing and very rarely does it come out as good as it originally sounded, so as long as priority 1 continue to be the devs propaganda channel of choice, I won't take it seriously.
if I could downvote this I would
oh look 3 scimitars and a defiant and some sort of T6 ship (i dont do fed stuff), all they literally did was DPS everything to death in different points and win.
Some of us would like to bring something like say a science vessel into a advanced STF. I can at least find some use in Conduit advanced for space, but that is kinda all.
The answer is making more STFs like the mirror invasion where certain ships did things better. I actually was very useful in my science ship and felt like I contributed a lot. if i got interrupted by a group around a rift I would simply gravwell them together then throw in a elachi subspace rift which knocks out their weapons and I can close the rift in peace.
DPS is not the answer, making ACTUAL teamwork necessary WITHOUT focusing purely on DPS is the answer.
For example, I been playing azure nebula rescue advanced all this week, since I believe saturday... I have yet to complete it once, we have failed every single time, EVERY SINGLE TIME. Dozens of tries, no success, even with different kinds of ships, or trying the whole repulsor deal to push the enemy away, it never truly works out like it should.
Seeing posting comments on the website of similar complaints here on the forums. I even see more negative reviews come in via steam.
Glad people are expanding to other areas beyond just these forums.
I have an image that i would like you to look at: http://i.imgur.com/OP68aLZ.jpg
What you see here is a screenshot of a parse, of an ISA run done earlier today. Pay close attention to Vel's numbers in that image.
He is running a Tank Scimitar. Not only can he pull and hold the aggro, he can survive through it. It's very important to note that the only reason there was ZERO deaths in that run was because of Vel's tank.
He normally gets 30k in that scimi, but forgot to release his pets that run so only got 27k.
If you pull Vel out of that run and replace him with a typical 30k scimitar then what you would see is a hot mess. multiple death, much longer run, lower overall DPS from everyone.
Normally if i bring my 50k DPS ship into an ISA with a 4k, 11k, and 16k toons, i would be generating too much aggro for my own heals to handle i and i would explode multiple times.
Vel only needs to do 20k DPS to grab aggro from me, 15k DPS would be too low (we've tested it). By doing an extra 7-10k DPS over the amount of damage he needs to grab aggro, he is reducing the pressure on himself. the quicker things die, the less pounding he has to endure.
Generally a win in my books. I would typically be hesitant to fly one of my high end ships with a group like that; but with a Tank of Vel's calibre it isn't a problem.
You missed the point, for ANRA you need both DPS and Teamwork. DPS by itself doesn't help at all if the players are running around like your typical pugs.
There are other ways to clear ANRA without DPS but it does require having players on your team who know what they are doing. Sadly most of the pugs i see in ANRA play it like it was ANR, and if you want to see the stupidest players in STO just queue for ANR.
Example: (this happens a lot) I'll have just finished soloing a 1 spawn and started disabling tractor beams. I would see a random stupid pug flying across the map towards me, past 2 and 3 spawns that just showed up. He'd get to where i am as i am disabling the last tractor beam then he would hit "Disable Tractor Beam" himself. How stupid do you have to be not see a ship with the glowing interaction animation sitting next the last tractor beam and not think: "hmmm i don't need to be here, lets move to somewhere i am needed instead" instead of "oh look i clicked the button, i'm helping derp"
There are mutliple ways to clear ANRA, if you can find a team that has half a brain between them then it's a snoozefest easy. Don't expect any kind of intelligence from pugs though.