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Something Cryptic will never do

inkrunnerinkrunner Member Posts: 407 Arc User
And it's a pity, because something like this is probably exactly what everyone - the playerbase and Cryptic included - needs.
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Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • js26568js26568 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    If you want some sort of apology from Cryptic you'll have to accept that it'll come with a snide comment from Geko, a direct insult from Taco or both.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Free Tibet!
  • flash525flash525 Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I hate to break it to you - but they have come forward and admitted their wrongdoing in the past. All the business with skills points and that Tau Dewa patrol for example - they took the skill points away, and then after an uprising by the players, they gave them back.

    Granted, it could have been handled a bit better, but to say Cryptic never apologizes simply isn't true.
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    js26568 wrote: »
    If you want some sort of apology from Cryptic you'll have to accept that it'll come with a snide comment from Geko, a direct insult from Taco or both.

    Posts like this are also why Cryptic developers don't really want to talk with players on the forums. Why bother if you know someone will insult and berate you anyway?
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • inkrunnerinkrunner Member Posts: 407 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    js26568 wrote: »
    If you want some sort of apology from Cryptic you'll have to accept that it'll come with a snide comment from Geko, a direct insult from Taco or both.

    Nah, not an insult from Taco. He, Gorngonzolla, and Bort are essentially the only reliable sources of inside game info left.

    I think you mean snide comment from Taco, direct insult from Geko. Though I wouldn't be surprised if both came from Geko.
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  • js26568js26568 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Posts like this are also why Cryptic developers don't really want to talk with players on the forums. Why bother if you know someone will insult and berate you anyway?

    I'm not wrong though, am I... that's the sad thing.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Free Tibet!
  • xiaoping88xiaoping88 Member Posts: 1,493 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Posts like this are also why Cryptic developers don't really want to talk with players on the forums. Why bother if you know someone will insult and berate you anyway?

    Because they're getting paid for it.
    Reality is an illusion.
    The universe is a hologram.
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  • inkrunnerinkrunner Member Posts: 407 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    flash525 wrote: »
    I hate to break it to you - but they have come forward and admitted their wrongdoing in the past. All the business with skills points and that Tau Dewa patrol for example - they took the skill points away, and then after an uprising by the players, they gave them back.

    Granted, it could have been handled a bit better, but to say Cryptic never apologizes simply isn't true.

    A hasty retreat from a position that they saw as detrimental to the well-being of the game (which it was), coupled with a refusal to fix the root problem (ridiculous XP limitations) and then a thinly veiled XP nerf ~1-2 weeks later is not an apology.
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  • coupaholiccoupaholic Member Posts: 2,188 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I'd rather they just got things done instead of waste time with grovelling apologies. Actions speak louder than words.
  • inkrunnerinkrunner Member Posts: 407 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    coupaholic wrote: »
    I'd rather they just got things done instead of waste time with grovelling apologies. Actions speak louder than words.

    Did you read the link?

    Blizzard gave people 5 extra, free subscription days to atone for what they admitted was a subpar launch. They apologized and had action to back it up.
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  • daqheghdaqhegh Member Posts: 1,490 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    You expect an apology when they're already rich? Dude, don't count on it.
    My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
  • specopssec31specopssec31 Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    And it's a pity, because something like this is probably exactly what everyone - the playerbase and Cryptic included - needs.

    What we need even more than a apology is honesty from devs and cryptic/pwe employees posting here.

    There is nothing worse than getting caught lying by your paying customers. And there were several lies (first Tau Tewa (was known from tribble testing and ignored) and then the xp-change which was promised to be not a nerf and was a mega-nerf instead).

    If your overlords in china order this changes and you have to implement them, tell the truth to the community. If you think that the game is better now with all that xp grind, post it here. But tell no lies to your customers.

    Currently I think that the developers and employees do have no love for this game, they do not like the thing they created but only see this as money-making machine. In EVE Online developers discuss with players and show their love for their sandbox, they give people the feeling that they want players to have fun. Would they even care if ST:O dies? Right now I think no, because they kill this game, every week a little bit more.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • flash525flash525 Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    inkrunner wrote: »
    A hasty retreat from a position that they saw as detrimental to the well-being of the game (which it was), coupled with a refusal to fix the root problem (ridiculous XP limitations) and then a thinly veiled XP nerf ~1-2 weeks later is not an apology.
    It's an admittance of error, which is close enough.
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  • bandraoi44bandraoi44 Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Blizzard also has no f2p model so compensating customers for lost time is standard with them.
  • inkrunnerinkrunner Member Posts: 407 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    flash525 wrote: »
    It's an admittance of error, which is close enough.

    I don't fault you at all for accepting it as an apology, but I (and I'm sure others as well) have trouble believing what looks, to me, at least, like little more than a desperate fallback from a position that damaged PR severely.
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    xiaoping88 wrote: »
    Because they're getting paid for it.

    A misconception. They are not paid for being on the forums. If they do it, they do it because they care and want to share something. They are paid for whatever their dev tasks are, be it doing mission maps or designing game mechanics, programming the game, identifying bugs, fixing bugs, whatever. But certainly not "Spend time on the forums". There is no task on the big task board saying: "Make Forum Posts".

    For communicating with us, there is a community team. You know, laughingtrendy and captainsmirk. If that are the only ones you wish to talk with, fine. But I don't think you'll like it all that much.


    Sure, some call them "unprofessional" - but guess what - community interaction is not their profession. The skill set for being a game developer is already expansive and complex enough, it's difficult to add "thick skin" and "can walk on egg shells" or "puts Picard's diplomacy skills to shame" and still find someone qualified or affordable.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • f9thretxcf9thretxc Member Posts: 505 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    heh, Community Interaction is something every one in the US learns from Kindergarten on up. It is as much a part of life , as drinking water.

    It is not a skill set, as much as it is a survival tool. The real suckers are those who think that "community organizer" or some such BS is an actual profession.

    It's not. We are on the internet for gods sake, it's not like we are all living in hermit caves, and have never been a part of a community before.

    As for having thick skin, too bad. suck it up , or gtfo. I swear we are becoming a nation of cowards and weaklings.
    My mother always told me to walk away from a fight, The Marines taught me how.
  • bernatkbernatk Member Posts: 1,089 Bug Hunter
    edited November 2014
    inkrunner wrote: »
    And it's a pity, because something like this is probably exactly what everyone - the playerbase and Cryptic included - needs.

    ITT: comparing STO to 10 year old juggernaut game where everything costs money...
    Tck7dQ2.jpg
    Dahar Master Mary Sue                                               Fleet Admiral Bloody Mary
  • xiaoping88xiaoping88 Member Posts: 1,493 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I would like to read something like that from Geko. Without sarcasm or in his typical, condescending tone. He should be forced to apologize for the damage he has done to the game and then he should be sent packing.

    And no, I didn't take the time to phrase this in any way polite. Geko seems to lack that time, too, whenever he communicates with his customers. The pure thought of me paying his bills sickens me and is reason enough to not pump money into STO right now.
    Reality is an illusion.
    The universe is a hologram.
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    xiaoping88 wrote: »
    I would like to read something like that from Geko. Without sarcasm or in his typical, condescending tone. He should be forced to apologize for the damage he has done to the game and then he should be sent packing.

    And no, I didn't take the time to phrase this in any way polite. Geko seems to lack that time, too, whenever he communicates with his customers. The pure thought of me paying his bills sickens me and is reason enough to not pump money into STO right now.

    And this is why it's wise never to be present on the forums as developer. Had Geko never written anything on the forums ever, no one would have known his name or believed he would be responsible.The blame would be on faceless entity like "Cryptic", "PWE" or "Chinese Overlords" that don't need to have thick skin, because they aren't people.

    He could still done all what he did now - change how many skill points you get, added reputations, removed specializations and add them back, made crafting dilithium dependent. But at least it wouldn't have been made personal, because there was no person people could have made it about.

    And all the other developers that never post on forums just think again to myself. "Thank god I don't post there. At least I don't have to deal with that."
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • xiaoping88xiaoping88 Member Posts: 1,493 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    And this is why it's wise never to be present on the forums as developer. Had Geko never written anything on the forums ever, no one would have known his name or believed he would be responsible.The blame would be on faceless entity like "Cryptic", "PWE" or "Chinese Overlords" that don't need to have thick skin, because they aren't people.

    He could still done all what he did now - change how many skill points you get, added reputations, removed specializations and add them back, made crafting dilithium dependent. But at least it wouldn't have been made personal, because there was no person people could have made it about.

    And all the other developers that never post on forums just think again to myself. "Thank god I don't post there. At least I don't have to deal with that."

    He is getting paid to put up with this kind of ****.
    And no, I don't despise him just because it is funny. I listened to him on podcasts, I read his posts.
    I know exactly why I have beef with him. He lies. He warps this game into something I hate.
    Of course I am not the standard to judge this game by. But it is enoug for me personally to get mad at him.
    Reality is an illusion.
    The universe is a hologram.
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    xiaoping88 wrote: »
    He is getting paid to put up with this kind of ****.
    No. He is not. No one really is. Heck, and even if he was - Don't use that as your excuse or rationalization for being insulting and wishing him ill.

    Explain the nature of your grievance. That doesn't require insults. Just explaining what you see. How did you come to your conclusions? What do you not like?
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • xiaoping88xiaoping88 Member Posts: 1,493 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    No. He is not. No one really is. Heck, and even if he was - Don't use that as your excuse or rationalization for being insulting and wishing him ill.

    Explain the nature of your grievance. That doesn't require insults. Just explaining what you see. How did you come to your conclusions? What do you not like?

    I am past this point. Two years ago I defended this game fiercly.
    One year ago, I began to doubt Geko, but still loved STO.

    Two months ago, I said "DR will be the make or break moment of STO".

    It was break.

    Here we are, and there is nothing left for me then to watch these forums and pray that DR will break Geko's neck.
    Reality is an illusion.
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  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • xiaoping88xiaoping88 Member Posts: 1,493 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    anazonda wrote: »

    Wow, that was actually quite funny. :D
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    The universe is a hologram.
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  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    xiaoping88 wrote: »
    Wow, that was actually quite funny. :D

    And relevant....
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • xiaoping88xiaoping88 Member Posts: 1,493 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    anazonda wrote: »
    And relevant....

    Perhaps, mate. Perhaps.
    Reality is an illusion.
    The universe is a hologram.
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  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    daqhegh wrote: »
    You expect an apology when they're already rich? Dude, don't count on it.

    It's not like Blizzard is hurting for money. Unless their story and franchise developer Chris Metzen is eating up all the profits on his WWE style stage entrances and having Metallica, Blink-182, Foo Fighters, and Tenacious D do concerts for their fans.

    They're not too rich to apologize or maintain customer support, while still making their announcements like this:

    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8

    If Cryptic is too ANYTHING not to apologize or maintain support, I'd doubt it's that they're too rich.

    The content of that video is really secondary to my point. Look at the theatrics. Look at how he talks about his game.

    And then stop to think that when those guys mess up, they apologize.

    I remember one time when I played WoW, I botched my character completely one day. I was somehow trapped in a weird phased instance without players or NPCs and this was true everywhere I went in the game. I put in a support ticket and I had to wait around 3 hours for it to get bumped up. It got escalated through three or four tiers of ticket urgency in that time. And when that happened, we chatted about the game tech. He realized I had some ideas and he copypasted an idea submission form into the chat box for me to agree to. And we talked mechanics of the game.

    Once he had fixed my character, I asked him about a rare spawn mount and he told me he couldn't tell me anything. He finished up fixing my character and I hopped on a taxi to another zone. I went AFK a minute.

    And when I got back, I was logged out. I logged back in and found he had changed my appearance on the taxi mount so that I was riding the rare mount I had asked about. It went away when I landed but I took a bunch of screenshots and called all of my friends who played to tell them about the awesome Blizzard employee who had just fixed my account after multiple tiers of GM couldn't, how they did it in one night, how they took notes on my feedback for the game, and how they had used their dev magic to tease me at the end by temporarily putting me on the mount I'd asked about.

    I don't expect ALL of that from Cryptic but some of that spirit would be nice.
  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I could be entirely wrong, and I am also not going to claim credit as "the one who got Geko to apologize" because I can't know what he was thinking since he didn't say that and others spoke up after me--but I *will* mention that with his most recent post, the strategy I took of pointing out how his words could be interpreted and how they undermined his intended message (the hard data is a different aspect and I am still in waiting and observation mode on that) while not calling him names or saying that he MUST be a hateful person does seem to have resulted in a more productive outcome than flames would have.

    Sometimes it helps a little to model the kind of behavior you want to see. I can't say what if any impact it might have because how a person acts is their own decision, but I admit I *did* find that interesting to see what might occasionally happen if you don't flame back.

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  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Member Posts: 1,606 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    anazonda wrote: »
    xiaoping88 wrote: »
    Wow, that was actually quite funny. :D
    anazonda wrote: »
    And relevant....

    And spot on.
  • xiaoping88xiaoping88 Member Posts: 1,493 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    gulberat wrote: »
    I could be entirely wrong, and I am also not going to claim credit as "the one who got Geko to apologize" because I can't know what he was thinking since he didn't say that and others spoke up after me--but I *will* mention that with his most recent post, the strategy I took of pointing out how his words could be interpreted and how they undermined his intended message (the hard data is a different aspect and I am still in waiting and observation mode on that) while not calling him names or saying that he MUST be a hateful person does seem to have resulted in a more productive outcome than flames would have.

    Sometimes it helps a little to model the kind of behavior you want to see. I can't say what if any impact it might have because how a person acts is their own decision, but I admit I *did* find that interesting to see what might occasionally happen if you don't flame back.

    I want to thank you. I am actually glad people like you exist.
    No, I am serious here. You might be able to change something for the better, while I tend to be quite blinded by my hate right now.
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