Any support for Tier 1-4 "Upgrades" ??

bcwhguderian1941

Thought I would test the waters, and see if any players out there would favor the notion of
offering some kind of "Upgrade/Ship Trait" system similar to the T-5U/T-F5U system. As it seems
from my understanding of how Cryptic/PWE views these lower tier ships, I do'nt see a "full" upgrade
as forseeable. But how about a "Mini Upgrade"? Say about 1/2 the stat increase, (2) traits, and
the extra console slot? What do you think? Would you be willing to spend money on your
languishing "Oberth", "Miranda", "Exeter", among the many others?? I would.

Curious how others feel?


BCW.

To clarify, as many repondants took things away from my original idea (my fault, not thiers), Such upgrades
would be...

T-1U, T-2U, T-3U, or T-4U. Each tier upgrade would result in +5% HP, 2 Ship Mastery Levels, and an
extra console. No tier level change is part of this idea. BCW.

thatcursedwolf

They just end-of-lifed T5. Why would they bring 1-4 up to that point?

The real question should be will T5-U be upgradable to T6-U when T7 ships roll out.

mightybobcnc

For 50 zen I'd upgrade a T3 ship to a T4 ship maybe for fun, but to be clear these low-tier ships should not be upgradable to T5.

johnnymo1

I could see an accolade or a title for it, but yeah, t 1-4 ships already have upgrades or are just not good at endgame

virusdancer

edit: Never mind, as mentioned below - the premise is something different than I thought. Have no comment on that premise other than wondering about the development resources that would be required for such an undertaking and its overall return on that investment.

bcwhguderian1941

thatcursedwolf wrote: »

They just end-of-lifed T5. Why would they bring 1-4 up to that point?

The real question should be will T5-U be upgradable to T6-U when T7 ships roll out.

Was'nt suggesting these as anything but for fun. No way I can see any of the ships I have in
mind being used at end game. For myself, I try to use these in lower end content because I
love some of these ships, and with the "adjustments" made, said content is growing thinner,
and thinner.


BCW.

bcwhguderian1941

mightybobcnc wrote: »

For 50 zen I'd upgrade a T3 ship to a T4 ship maybe for fun, but to be clear these low-tier ships should not be upgradable to T5.

Agreed. What I was suggesting are a T-1U, T-2U, T-3U, and so on. Just for the sake of
making these ships a little more viable in low to mid range content. Only someone in love with
these ships, or perhaps RP's would have such an interest.


BCW.

baddmoonrizin

With the exception of Tier 1 and the Tier 2 Cruiser/Refit, I thought all of the ships had Fleet versions, which are already Tier 5 and upgradeable to Tier 5-U. Am I mistaken?

anazonda

The T5-U system was really just to shut up those of us who prefer our old ships.

I expect that when T7 is released, the current T5 ships will find themselves at a even heavier disadvantage than what they already are, to the point where they finally are entirely obsolete, as I don't expect them to receive a upgrade at that point.

bcwhguderian1941

Guys, I think your missing my premise...

Not talking about making a T-2 ship into a T-3, or any other tier. What I'm trying to get a
read on is if spending money for a "T-2U" (meaning as an example, an "Exeter", with +5% HP,
2 ship mastery levels, and an extra console) has any appeal.

As I said, sort of a "Mini-Upgrade" for T-1 to T-4 ships. All you would gain in any tier would be
the +5% HP, 2 ship mastery levels, and an extra console on whatever ship you upgraded. As
Cryptic/PWE has already stated multiple times, none of these early tier ships are "permitted"
end game status. I"m just floating the notion of getting a way to keep some life in these
early ships of which I, myself, am very fond of.


BCW.

bobbydazlers

the thing is they are probably upgraded in a way but with weaponry shields ect.
basically even my lowly tier 1 ship has gear on it that is mk10 & mk11 rare/v.rare that is well above the level of gear they come with so although the basic stats are unchanged the level they can compete at is well above that they were initially meant for.
and now you can upgrade your gear if you want there is nothing stopping you in theory of upgrading all your gear on your ships to mk14 ultra rare they could quit easily take on foes intended for ships of tier 4 & 5 level.

but to upgrade these lower tier ships themselves is a bit pointless.
especially with 1/2 the stat increase, why waste your time upgrading say a tier 4 ship to 4.5 when we are all flying t5 & t5u anyway.

the only reason they introduced the t5u upgrade was so free to play players could compete beside t6 ships for minimal cost and more often for free, so these players would not feel like they were being forced into a pay to play situation by having to buy t6 ships to take part in new content.

bcwhguderian1941

bobbydazlers wrote: »

the thing is they are probably upgraded in a way but with weaponry shields ect.
basically even my lowly tier 1 ship has gear on it that is mk10 & mk11 rare/v.rare that is well above the level of gear they come with so although the basic stats are unchanged the level they can compete at is well above that they were initially meant for.
and now you can upgrade your gear if you want there is nothing stopping you in theory of upgrading all your gear on your ships to mk14 ultra rare they could quit easily take on foes intended for ships of tier 4 & 5 level.

but to upgrade these lower tier ships themselves is a bit pointless.
especially with 1/2 the stat increase, why waste your time upgrading say a tier 4 ship to 4.5 when we are all flying t5 & t5u anyway.

the only reason they introduced the t5u upgrade was so free to play players could compete beside t6 ships for minimal cost and more often for free, so these players would not feel like they were being forced into a pay to play situation by having to buy t6 ships to take part in new content.

All true. Its obvious I spend more time with these old ships than most. I've just been noticing
with the "Mob" adjustments lately, that the "Oberth" as an example is toast within 1 second
of a shield dropping. Was not this way prior to DR, and was my reason for floating this notion.

Perhaps I am alone with these desires.

Thanks all.


BCW.

baddmoonrizin

bcwhguderian1941 wrote: »

Guys, I think your missing my premise...

Not talking about making a T-2 ship into a T-3, or any other tier. What I'm trying to get a
read on is if spending money for a "T-2U" (meaning as an example, an "Exeter", with +5% HP,
2 ship mastery levels, and an extra console) has any appeal.

As I said, sort of a "Mini-Upgrade" for T-1 to T-4 ships. All you would gain in any tier would be
the +5% HP, 2 ship mastery levels, and an extra console on whatever ship you upgraded. As
Cryptic/PWE has already stated multiple times, none of these early tier ships are "permitted"
end game status. I"m just floating the notion of getting a way to keep some life in these
early ships of which I, myself, am very fond of.


BCW.

Oh! Gotcha! Well, as much as my NX and TOS Constitution captains would appreciate ANY boost they can get for their ships, I don't know that a majority of people would invest in what might be deemed a meager return.

As it is, T6 gets 5 levels and T5U gets 4 levels. So, continuing that trend: T4U would get 3 levels, T3U would get 2 levels, T2U would get 1 level, and T1 would get nothing.

bcwhguderian1941

baddmoonrizin wrote: »

Oh! Gotcha! Well, as much as my NX and TOS Constitution captains would appreciate ANY boost they can get for their ships, I don't know that a majority of people would invest in what might be deemed a meager return.

As it is, T6 gets 5 levels and T5U gets 4 levels. So, continuing that trend: T4U would get 3 levels, T3U would get 2 levels, T2U would get 1 level, and T1 would get nothing.

My idea would include all T-1 to T-4. All would get the +5% HP, 2 Ship Mastery Levels, and
an extra console. The lower the tier, the more the gain. Otherwise I agree with you that
most would see it as a meager gain. Which it is, but maybe enough folks would show interest.

Who knows?


BCW.

bcwhguderian1941

virusdancer wrote: »

edit: Never mind, as mentioned below - the premise is something different than I thought. Have no comment on that premise other than wondering about the development resources that would be required for such an undertaking and its overall return on that investment.

Sorry, I guess bad initial expression on my part.

Development time/costs of course being a relevant issue (no programer am I). Just wanted
to see if there was any interest (other than my own) out there.


BCW.

bobbydazlers

anyway at the end of the day its not the other players you need on your side its the devs, it is they that will have to do the work to implement such a plan.
I cant see with the very limited appeal there would be much profit for them to work on this, as most players rarely if ever use their lower tier ships enough to warrant paying money to upgrade them anyway.
I cant even remember the last time I used a ship below T5 and I vehemently begrudge paying to upgrade T5 ships I sure would not pay to upgrade anything less.
the only T5 ships I have upgraded have been ones I have been able to do for kind of free like the event ships, the 1000 day sub reward ships and with the upgrade tokens I received from my lifetime sub and in the DR ship pack.

seriousdave

Interesting idea but also kinda pointless. Stuff like T2U would still be like a worse version of T3 and so on. I can see that people who are fond of ships like the Exter, Oberth and ships that don't have a T5 counterpart would like such a thing but those ships are stuck in T1/2 because the devs want them to be stuck there. So chances of it are zero.

hravik

Ships that you level out of in hours? I don't see a point.

taylor1701d

Not a bad idea, wouldnt hurt anything anyways.
If the devs had time, and the cost was not prohibitive to implement such a thing, I don't see why not.

I wouldnt protest such a change, in fact I might even be inclined to upgrade a couple "Just for fun" (so long as the Zen cost was reasonable)

T1-U = 100 Zen
T2-U = 150 Zen
T3-U = 200 Zen
T4-U = 250 Zen

(if the prices were as such, I'd probably do a couple just for fun)

As someone had mentioned though, How many ships from T1-T4 do not have Fleet Versions ?
Maybe they could start with those ?

ghyudt

thatcursedwolf wrote: »

They just end-of-lifed T5. Why would they bring 1-4 up to that point?

The real question should be will T5-U be upgradable to T6-U when T7 ships roll out.

They did not end of life it. Its still perfectly viable if you upgrade to your gear. You don't even have to upgrade the ship to stay competitive. And no, T5U will not be upgradeable to T6, or 6U, if such a thing should even come to exist.

OP, no, lower tier ships will, in all liklihood, not get an upgrade. Why would they? Most of them have a higher tier counterpart available. The ones that don't aren't even good enough to be worth upgrading. They're great for the lower rank players, who get used to doing more and having more available as they progress, but other than that, they're not really worth bothering with. I really can't think of any lower tier ship I'd even want to see get an upgrade.

withnail68

I don't really see the point. The amout of game time you would be in each ship is limited. They are really only there to halp you rise through the ranks. You also have the option of buing c-store ships as "upgrades" the the free ships at each tier. As soon as you are promoted do you not get your free next tier ship?

The problem I see is that the "free" ships are not that good at T5 and to progress in the game you need to purchase a better ship or and upgrade.

We now have several levels of T5 ships.

T-5 lvl 40 inc mirror ships not upgradeable
T-5 lvl 50 inc retrofits
T-5U
Fleet T-5
Fleet T-5U

plus the T-6 and the forthcoming fleet T-6

Fleet T-5s are as good as the T-6 ships, just without the hybrid intel seats and the trait, but your captain slots that anyway.

The fleet T-5U have an extra console slot compared to the T-6 ships anyway.

I'm in the process of leveling up the T-6 ships form the delta pack and will then go through my T5-U ships. I still like the T-5U ships and will probably fly them in preference to the T-6 ships.

baddmoonrizin

I can see one way this might be worth Cryptic doing and players investing in it:

BOFF Captains

Since we can now reach the rank of Fleet Admiral, it makes in-game sense for us to command our own small fleet of ships commanded by our BOFFs. Basically, our "Away Team" in space, the player ship and 4 other BOFF commanded ships. That is, if Cryptic can figure out how, or ever decides to implement it.

BOFFs should be promotable to Captain now. Instead of giving them extra ground/space ability slots, promotion to Captain would allow them to command a starship and have access to perform the basic command abilities (i.e. Evasive Maneuvers, Ramming Speed, etc.), and as Captains, BOFFs would be limited to commanding T1-T4 ships, just as players were at that level.

With that in place, upgrading T1-T4 ships actually becomes something worth looking at.

noroblad

this needs to take a backseat until the t5 ships can all be upgraded -- many cannot. And after the t5s the mirrors should be upgraded. THEN we can talk lowbie stuff.

cookiecrook

I would pay 5 ship upgrade tokens to upgrade my Connie to T5U. :cool:

chainfall

I'd rather see BOFF slot ranks become normalized and be independent of tier entirely. If my NX could fit a CDR Tac, LCDR Eng, and LT Sci, having only 3 weapons would be a relatively minor inconvenience and would go a long way toward making those ships somewhat viable for those of us who fly them because we like them.

They would still be limited in stats and slots, no reason BOFFs should also be limited.

otowi

Interesting idea.

I love the NX-01, it is a fine looking ship, and handles really well. I would love being able to fly this ship into the later levels.

But I fear that this will not hapeen. The reason? There is this little ship called the TOS Connie. Since they have said time and again, no T5 TOS Connie, it would be logical to assume, even if they did go ahead with the idea, that the TOS Connie issues would rear it's ugly head yet again, and torpedo the entire thing before it even got of the launchpad as it were.

But I still like the idea, but unlikely due to the reason I mentioned above.

bcwhguderian1941

Alright folks... alright... I surrender.

I guess I'm a true minority with these ships. I pilot them more than my mainline T-5U's. Why?
As I see so many posters saying how bored they are, with no more to do, I use these ships to
keep things fresh and challenging. Works for me, anyhow.

Oh well, back to the stars.


BCW.

P.S. Remember, I was never suggesting an actual change, just what kind of interest there would
be to such an idea.

tiekosora

To the OP, I have a different suggestion.

With the introduction of mechanics to upgrade your (qualifying) ship to T5-U, then it SHOULD be feasible to implement a means to upgrade your ship to the next tier. Now, I'm not talking every ship (CBS would have a cow for an upgraded TOS Connie) but most, especially the Cryptic designs, should qualify for upgrade, all the way to T5-U.

In the past, especially in beta, a few of us were very vocal in implementing a means for your ship to level up with you. Iconic ships are... well, iconic. You know through a few mentions that Picard commanded another starship before Enterprise, and then we get to see it for one episode. Hero characters are almost always affiliated with just one ship. DS9 changed that with Worf and O'Brien also being on both runabouts and the Defiant, but in general, you see the heroes in one iconic ship.

Using the existing templates for various ships at increasing tiers, it should be fairly easy to apply statistics to an upgraded ship. The means to upgrade would be the same for upgrading to T5-U. Buy an upgrade token, use it at a ship selection terminal, and your ship takes on the new stats for the increased tier. I think it's tier four where we start to see multiple ships per class with a focus on a secondary profession. By this I mean, two science ship classes, one is more inclined to tactical, one to engineering. When upgrading at THIS point, you should get an option to which path you take, one that will stick with that specific ship as you continue to upgrade it. The final upgrade would result in a T5-U ship, which would then open up ship mastery.

Which ships should be excluded?

* Both Connies - Devs and CBS have already said this is a dead issue. The tier 2 cruiser when upgraded, would have to exclude these costume options. I, as would a lot of people, like to see the Exeter as a higher tier ship, but it's likely that it would be excluded due to its close resemblance to the Connie Refit.

* NX and Oberth - As with the Connies, very old ships, both long since retired in the scheme of things.

* Excelsior, Nebula, and Ambassador - Aside from the C-store and fleet versions, these are all for the most part overpowered for the tier you can get them.

* The Galaxy variations - While iconic, there is a bundle pack for these ships already, and the point of this isn't to take away from C-store sales.

This would include most ships up to tier 4. Once you hit the tier 5 ships, most, if not all, are upgradeable to T5-U. I would have to check to be sure.

So this is how it would work for a player that was all for a career in a Nova. Player gets Nova at promotion to Lt. Commander, and decides he wants the refit, either for the console, the costume, or both. He buys the ship from the C-store and uses that ship. When he levels up to Commander (tier 3) he decides to upgrade rather than choose a different ship style. He buys an upgrade token from the C-store for zen. His ship is upgraded to match the stats for the standard tier 3 science ship. Once he reaches the rank of captain, he again chooses to upgrade his ship, buying an upgrade token from the C-store. His ship takes on the stats for the equivalent tier 4 science ship (not the Nebula). When he gains access to the tier 5 ships, this is where the interesting stuff occurs. He can specialize in either recon or deep space science ships. His ship will take on the appropriate stats based on his choice, which cannot be reversed for this specific ship. (Ship mastery would be identical for the TYPE of ship you chose to upgrade to, such as recon; stats would based on the Luna class ships).

From here the player has the option to move into the fleet version using the existing method, and from there upgrading that ship to T5-U. I would entertain the possibility of upgrading mirror variants as well, since technically they ARE lockbox ships. This also would integrate a means to further upgrade, should a tier 7 or more ever be introduced into the game.

So, pros -

* Adds to, does not take away from existing sales systems.
* Gives player more options, while not affecting power creep.
* Implements a means to upgrade ships in the future, should ships past tier 6 be introduced to the game.
* Doesn't add an unnecessary layer of additional ship traits to the game, reducing development time.


Cons -

* Not a perfect system, as some iconic Trek ships are left out.
* Requires development time to implement.


Please, discuss in a mature fashion. If you don't like the ideas presented, please state why, and if possible offer an idea to better it.