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Need a reason to grind:
dius1981
Member Posts: 500
I'm hearing more and more as players start to drop off from logging in daily to weekly.
They don't mind the fact that they have to upgrade all their gear, it is an MMO after all so a grind should always be expected in some form... That said, they would like a real reason to do the grinding...
Lets face it, why on Earth would you need a full Epic space set for PvE.
Even with all this new content, there is still no real end game in STO.
And without that reason to WANT to upgrade your stuff, plus the current upgrade costs for pretty much everything, why would you want to...?
Not even getting on the subject of multiple toons at this point...
Cryptic need to add some real end-game content in the form of PvP. Territorial expansion or even PvE / PvP content such as expanding on what we have currently in Ker'rat.
In every other MMO I've played, PvP is a very integral part of the game in some form.
But STO is very much the exception to that rule. The game is missing that one vital element...
It Needs PvP content. The story line content is fine but just PvE doesn't make a modern MMO.
D,
They don't mind the fact that they have to upgrade all their gear, it is an MMO after all so a grind should always be expected in some form... That said, they would like a real reason to do the grinding...
Lets face it, why on Earth would you need a full Epic space set for PvE.
Even with all this new content, there is still no real end game in STO.
And without that reason to WANT to upgrade your stuff, plus the current upgrade costs for pretty much everything, why would you want to...?
Not even getting on the subject of multiple toons at this point...
Cryptic need to add some real end-game content in the form of PvP. Territorial expansion or even PvE / PvP content such as expanding on what we have currently in Ker'rat.
In every other MMO I've played, PvP is a very integral part of the game in some form.
But STO is very much the exception to that rule. The game is missing that one vital element...
It Needs PvP content. The story line content is fine but just PvE doesn't make a modern MMO.
D,
OMEGA ARMADA & House of Beautiful Orions
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Please keep the QQ to a minimum.
>>>PUNISH THE FEDs<<<
>>>Positive Feedback from a PvE HERO<<<
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Please keep the QQ to a minimum.
>>>PUNISH THE FEDs<<<
>>>Positive Feedback from a PvE HERO<<<
Post edited by dius1981 on
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Real join date September 2012
Thats kinda how i look at it too...
I'm not fully satisfied with how they handle progression, gearing and instance difficulty. In most other games you quest and hit level cap. Then you get pre-dungeon gear so that you can do dungeons. Then once you are in the dungeon you farm it until you have enough gear to start raid tier 1. Then you farm raid tier 1 until you have enough gear to be able to do raid tier 2 and so on. Along the way the fights might get a little harder and more complex. And then once you've done all that for a while then you get a reset, a level cap raise and you do it all over again.
But in STO we dont get that...partly due to the gearing system, ship system and the F2P model they chose. Its just a lot of stuff that all goes together to give us this bad progression. Instances that can be completed in white gear, instances that can be AFK'd through, chicken and egg gearing system with Omega and Delta Alliance which some people have not been able to or refuse to work around. An upgrade system that a lot of people says takes up too much of their time and resources etc etc.
Personally, i'm not even worried about Advanced and Elites. Its mainly due to the way devs are handling the upgrade system. I dont even have a problem with the costs. But when i see things like people upgrading a VR XII to a VR XIII and the stats get worse? then i hear one person saying how they got a reply back from a CSR saying that this is intended? was there a communication issue between these two people? or is this really how the system is supposed to work. People using the upgrade system and seeing modifiers dropping gear. Yah...i pretty much have zero confidence in the upgrade system. So i wont be upgrading anything until i hear something from somebody reassuring me/us on these issues. The only way i'll even get into the upgrade system is after i've purchased every single zen item i want to buy. And there's about 20k zen worth of stuff i want to buy first (delta pack and other misc stuff).
It's entertaining enough to keep me coming back for more which is great.
But if they gave PvP even 1 - 10th the development and resources they currently put into PvE I know they would:
A - Have a lot more players.
B - Have a higher player retention.
& C - Be making a lot more money for themselves in the process.
Lets face it, a PvP season has been promised / mentioned by more then 1 PwE representative over the years. But nothing has ever been put on the table.
It really is a mystery as to why they have not acted on this topic sooner.
It would be better for everyone, the Devs & players alike. Give PvP the attention it so desperately needs & deserves.
D,
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Please keep the QQ to a minimum.
>>>PUNISH THE FEDs<<<
>>>Positive Feedback from a PvE HERO<<<
Suddenly elites seemed trite. But on the bright side there was people to play with in privates - or when you were looking for a challenge - the random pug or two could be fun.
The came the Great Fun Purge of 2014: Delta Rising.
Yeah the voiceovers were neat. Storyline compelling. But the combat was an endless slog if you could actually play while avoiding the dozen or so game-stopping bugs.
Suddenly Elite grounds are fun, and fairly close in difficulty to the old elites.
Space Elites are - well to put it mildly - a joke with boredom as the punchline.
Nothing kills the games enjoyment more than a boring slog. And no I don't feel it's necessary to have 30K dps just to compete.
But what killed it more than anything else was the loss in active players.
True enough, but I can say with absolute certainty not paying any attention to PvP development for over 4 & 1/2 years has had a detrimental affect on STO's growth as an MMO.
The amount of people that I have known who have started STO, leveled to 50, realised there is absolutely nothing to do at 50. Then quickly moved on, is staggering.
Don't get me wrong I enjoy PvE as much as the next guy but I would also like options on the other side of the hill. In the form of a true PvP update.
Player retention is a big BIG issue, a PvP update would go a long way to helping, IMO of course...
D,
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Please keep the QQ to a minimum.
>>>PUNISH THE FEDs<<<
>>>Positive Feedback from a PvE HERO<<<
You must not have ever raided in another game. In other games you raid tier 1 to get gear for tier 2. Ok that sounds kinda like going from normal to advanced, or advanced to elite. Only 1 issue, in a good raiding game tier 1 and tier 2 are completely different raids! In STO you are only progressing to the same exact content with more HP. While I enjoy many aspects of this game it is NOT a raiding game, and not even remotely close to even looking like one.
1) Short goal: Buy a piece of equipment. Just need to acquire the currency or components.
2) Medium goal: Rep system or event reward. Fill a project every day for 15 days, 20 days, 40 days.
3) Long goal: Another R&D school, the specialization system.
STO didn't really have #3 before DR. But the problem with #3 is that the endpoints feel sketchy and the achieveability is in doubt, and that really hurts the motivation to try for it. And when my motivation for one thing is down, it hurts my motivation for other things.
So I dunno.
i agree, i support, i want to see the perfect pew surrounding in here.... wait, haven't that been 2 years ago, by the time all the promises should have been made real?! #disenchanted
Hmm, I think I understand what you're trying to say. I've abandoned R&D and specializations altogether, and will probably take a break after the Mirror Invasion until the Winter Wonderland shows up, because the long-term goals are unreachable, especially for somebody like myself and my 6 characters.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
They need to make the R&D Special the norm, and buff 1.5X on top of that for the R&D weekends.
creation cost should be lowered at LEAST by %25.
it was unrefined at launch and is slowly if at all gaining balance and tweaking.
it would give reason to grind, on another note, i have one toon who uses Mk X green and blue just fine (which is both funny and ridiculous), so i am not talking about making epics or Mk Xiv THAT you can be sure of...
And, second gear is usually followed by animations and models or what you could call content or work put in by the developers.
In the case of crafting, upgrading, t5u are all entirely without animations, without content, without developer work put in.
So, if we pretend the 2003 standard issue mmporg deal, that they develop new character gear and we have to buy (money or time or both), is still good, then they haven't held up their end...
Because they haven't developed anything.
Crafting, t5u, upgrading are essentially just a button you can click to start draining your dil or zen with 100% blank copy-pasted stats.
Here is another way to look at it.
A reputation is 6 weeks of 20 hour time gates - you EARN dil for playing it and you get, previously, top weapons in the game, for free.
When you complete it, you get an active animation someone had to actually develop and add as content to the game.
Here comes crafting, say hello to 6 months - you get zero dil for it, it's a lottery and it's going to cost you millions of dil
I think more or less everyone will regret even throwing 2 dil into those systems because at the end of the day, when there are no animations attached to it, you can't tell that person is flying a 33,000,000 dil ship of upgrading lottery gear.
So even for those people it's a waste too.
There just isn't enough hours in a day to cover all the angles in which you can flame the expansion to hell and back, I just can't say enough negative things about it
I asked a million times by now, why - what's the point?
The last 2 years they kept saying how great the game was going and many people they hired so what gives?
If people are already buying more than enough why all the constant pitifulness, deleting and nerfing everything - probably over-emphasized your own point by killing off the queues.
Mirror event daily, tour the galaxy, exploration, reputation passives stolen, doff upgrinder, console fabrication, colonization chains etc etc we actually just came on and played and enjoyed those thanks
When they nerfed vendor trash that was probably the night I gave up on them, does it get anymore cheap than that?
The doff UI - why on god's green earth waste time on that.
All that did was take time away from something useful while raising the bar for hate from the community.
Then top it off with flaming the community back I guess to display how focused and well prepared and professional we are.
So sure, you are a victim of circumstances, the game was left in your hands unfinished and you had to rush it out the door which you keep bringing up.
But that was 4 years ago and it doesn't go far in rationalizing what you choose to work on - or rather what you ignore.
I guess what I am trying to say is, the problems of the expansion cannot be seen independently of the context of all the other problems been going on for 2½ years.
It would be alright if patrols didn't pay any exp if we still had daily mirror event for example.
The emptiness of it all is not just the emptiness of the expansion but just as much all them things, they so pointlessy removed, that players were using to the point there is nothing to do - is it nerfed enough for you now?
/edit
ps. Another angle I'd like to have thrown in there is having to put up with fake star trek ships - which is another knot you can tie to the whole 4 years of waste time now the problems have arrived
There are obviously many more PVE players than PVP. There are so many very good shooters that I fail to see why RPGs need to be more PVP oriented than they are. I always felt many people who push and try demean anybody who doesnt care for PVP in RPGs enjoy that in these games there is often an unbalance between levels or gear unlike in shooters and mobas where it is more often based on skill, experience, and teamplay. With this game going to a pay to be better than you element, I do not see how things could be very balanced. Would I like to see a battlezone where factions can face off? Yes, but I do not see it as bein necessary in the least. There are many more important issues to deal with than something that has never been in demand from the majority of players.
They log in, pew for less than an hour (maybe 30 mins), then log out. Their builds are majorly sub-optimised, some barely understand even the basic gameplay mechanics (some people have gotten to lvl 50 in the past without even realising they could retrain their boffs and assign skill points) and find normal difficulty NPCs a challenge. The game has to hand hold these people.
And they all want to be able to do advanced PvE queues.
Sad to say I can see why the Devs haven't put much attention on PvP. This is a game for Star Trek fans, not for gamers and certainly not hardcore gamers.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
You mean in that one other game, WoW. UO had no true endgame. EQ had raiding, but it was a very different beast. Tiered instanced content was level dependent, typically with a content-specific gear check. (Think psychic resist for bugs, less strict tier upgrades.) FFXI had endgame content of disparate difficulty levels, which the community shook out into informal tiers; gear had no set upgrade path, and depending on job, may be some of the same stuff you've been wearing for 30 levels. ****'s endgame was RvR. The majority of top-end gearing was master crafted, quested, or drops from a handful of non-instanced content. EVE's endgame content consists of becoming master of the universe. GW endgame is all small team PVP. WAR was built around RvR, but tried squaring the circle by tiering endgame RvR and dungeon content. It failed, miserably, and copying WoW was part of that road to failure. Point being, there are a variety of approaches to endgame content, and just because the most successful game uses methodology X, it in no way guarantees that said approach will produce a positive outcome for your game.
I'm personally fine with the idea behind "endgame" progression as currently implemented. Problem being, the idea doesn't match the implementation. Cart-before-horse gearing that requires you run Advanced to get the gear to be able to run Advanced is unworkable. Advancement is almost entirely tied to MOAR DEEPS. Ground content seems to scale well and consistently with few exceptions, whereas space content is still all over the board. Worst of all, content is repetitive -- you run an instance to gear for the exact same instance, only with an extra digit or two on the numbers. Familiary breeds contempt, and long-term repetition is a fast path to burnout.
This + 10000
What I need is ZEN gear to do more forum PVP with.
All the gear i grinded is now outdated, the ship i grinded for is outdated and all of my chars are underlvl.
So i gave it a go and started playing trough the new content and omg ... Level53 and atm stuck with this EXTREMELY slow exp rate ... So now i have to grind quite a while to get my char/s back to full level, then regrind for a new ship and or gear. Cant even imagine how it goes after something like level55.
I mean the new content is awesome, and i wouldnt care about the gear and ship grind but the exp rate? Omg so slow and kinda makes it to much of a grindfest imo.
So there is no reason to upgrade further. And trust me I'm someone who was pretty darn jazzed about upgrading. Sitting on 4 mil refined right now.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
^^this lol
/10char
So you want More PvP, and because of this, everyone who likes PvE should just shut up.
Sure, cryptic try to make the journey from 0 to max level longer so they can retain those players longer, but the problem is still there.. "after lvl 60 what?"
In some games you do PVP, in others you do really challange PVE quest (not just DPS races), in the most succesfull you do both.. in here.. well.. you just said ppl good bye and welcome the new one who is going to make all the prosses again.
As a fleet leader, we try to make weekend events, original events (races on social maps with rewards, or search for the missing officer, or forum events, or PVP events) but still, the game does not help.
And yes, is true that the forum does not represent the feeling of the playerbase.. how many players are active on the forum? 10% maybe? So yes, all the cry and QQ is not represetive but remember this: Most of the ppl out there just play the game with out a complain but also there is a big majority of players that leave the game with out even steping a foot on the forums or making a complain... they just get bored and leave. And I bet most fleet leaders know that for a fact.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
I'm enjoying the upgrading system and R&D as well and don't have to have pvp to want to upgrade to epic. I just want to have the best gear anyway. But it would be awesome and would give it even more meaning if there was some new PvP stuff to do. A new open pvp zone like the Neverwinter Icewind Dale module would be so great.
I disagree with the statement though that there is no endgame in sto. I'd say that with DR, this is the first time that there is endgame. The advanced and elite queued content.
And even if they successfully make a nice PvP update, without impacting PvE (that's impossible, but let's say they do it), this game have been around for years. And in all that time, they did their best to scare PvPer, and attract PvEr.
Let's face it, it's a pve game. Adding more pvp will not help much. In fact, I'm pretty sure they could remove pvp entirely and not even have an issue with that. Sure, a bunch of player will get mad and leave, but in the end, they would be very few.
They already said the amount of player doing pvp is abysmal.
We have a said here: "do not eat the goose that laid the Golden Eggs" and cryptic did that by killing PVP completly..
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
I think I found what you did wrong
Take a good look at the game... There are TONS of things that some 80-90% of the players arent even close to having discovered first time around.