Best type of space polaron weapons?

j0hn41
j0hn41 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
So, I like polaron weapons. I run them on most of my ships. I could probably get more mileage out of anti-protons or disruptors, but I like my “Dominion Synergy” and my “Victory is Life” and watching the normal NPCs stop moving and shutdown whenever they proc.

My main ship is now equipped with Fleet polarons, but given the possibilities presented by the upgrade system, (and the fact I'm getting closer to being able to craft relevant upgrades), I've been taking a second look at other polaron flavors.

I want the base weapon type to be polaron, (so no polarized disruptors). The thoron infused variants hold no appeal for me, since they don't drain any power. So, given that criteria, there are Fleet polarons, Phased polarons, and Protonic polarons that come in all beam/cannon/turret types, unless I'm forgetting any.

I've got a full set of very rare Phases polaron [acc]x2 cannons an turrets for my ship in the bank and a full set of ultra rare Fleet polarons [acc]x2 [dmg]x2 currently on my ship.

Assuming all the weapons were epic quality, on a cannon armed ship with around 20% crit chance and around 100% crit severity, in a PvE situation, which variants and mods do you think would perform the best? Just wanted to get a few opinions before dumping a bunch of resources into upgrading my weapons.
Post edited by j0hn41 on
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Comments

  • yahtzeeman
    yahtzeeman Member Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Standard Polaron weapons with Acc/CritD/CritH will serve you very well. Avoid Dmg modifiers like the plague, they're the worst modifier you can get and unfortunately the Fleet weapons will force you to use two of them. You can get better mileage out of standard, upgraded Polaron weapons than Fleet Polaron.

    In terms of direct usage, this is how I would rank Polaron weapons:

    Phased Polaron (Phaser and Polaron Procs make me happy; 2 modifiers @ V. Rare)
    Standard Polaron (3 modifers @ V. Rare, good standby)
    Dominion Polaron (Mission reward; mixes Polaron and Tetryon procs & has no modifiers)
    Protonic/Thoron Polaron (ew, ew, ew. Triple ew @ Thoron)

    A good weapon setup for a Jem Dread could be:

    4x Phased Polaron Beam Array ([CrtH] [CrtD])
    3x Polaron Beam Array (2x [Acc] [CrtH])

    Bug ship:

    4x Phased Polaron DHC ([CrtH] [CrtD])
    3x Polaron Turret (2x [Acc] [CrtH])

    As you upgrade them, they get more damage and modifiers.
  • snowpig74
    snowpig74 Member Posts: 267 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    ordered by usefulness:

    Protonic Polaron (with set)
    Standard Polaron
    Protonic Polaron (without set)
    (everything else)
  • warmaker001b
    warmaker001b Member Posts: 9,182 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Polaron weapons?

    IMHO, the best types are:

    Non-Fleet, Standard Polarons with favorable mods for your build. This includes crafted Polaron weapons. I say this because Standard / Crafted Polarons can be found with highly favorable weapon mod combos that do not involve the completely outclassed and uselss [Dmg] mods. The sheer abundance of [Dmg] mods on ALL kinds of Fleet Weapons in today's STO make them obsolete.

    Dominion Polaron Weapons - Found in the Dominion arc as a mission reward as either Beam Array or Dual Cannon versions. You'll have to do a bunch of runs to get enough to outfit a ship with Dominion Polaron Weapons. They have the Polaron and Tetryon Proc effects on them, ideal for high Flow Cap builds. IIRC, they'll come in Mk XI Rare quality last I checked. But they are free.

    If you are looking for the Polaron Proc effect but want some good, solid base effects, Polarized Disruptors are a nice combo. They have the Polaron power drain effect but are Disruptors and have the Disruptor Hull Breach Proc. As Disruptor weapons, they benefit from all the usual Disruptor boosts the game offers. Nice, solid combo. However, these are PRICEY on the exchange.
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  • jackal1701apw
    jackal1701apw Member Posts: 668 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I would have thought that protonic polarons were good as they proc the proton damage 1/4 of the time when u crit and u can get ur crit rates to 20% (so in effect they will proc 5% - twice as often as a normal proc and this is on top of the regular polaron energy drain proc).

    So the question becomes is this proton dmage proc worth more than a weapon modifier (as protonic polarons get 2 at VR rather than 3)? I dunno the answer to that but would like to know for my own jemmy builds. It ignores shields and is pretty good against Voth and gets boosted by sets.
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  • priestofsin420
    priestofsin420 Member Posts: 419
    edited November 2014
    I would have thought that protonic polarons were good as they proc when u crit and u can get ur crit rates to 20% (way higher than 2.5%).

    I may be wrong though...

    I ran Protonic Polarons for the longest time on my Dyson ship, with a 30% crit rate as a Romulan. Avoid them. They will be outpaced by Antiproton, Disruptor, and just about any "good" energy type.
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  • flash525
    flash525 Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I would say, if you're running a full Dyson Set and using Polaron Weapons, then quite easily the Protonic Polaron. I'm using them on my Fleet Nebula, and they're quite cool. I have been looking into the new Thoron themed Polaron too, but I couldn't tell you whether they're any good or not.
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  • warmaker001b
    warmaker001b Member Posts: 9,182 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I would have thought that protonic polarons were good as they proc the proton damage 1/4 of the time when u crit and u can get ur crit rates to 20% (so in effect they will proc 5% - twice as often as a normal proc and this is on top of the regular polaron energy drain proc).

    So the question becomes is this proton dmage proc worth more than a weapon modifier (as protonic polarons get 2 at VR rather than 3)? I dunno the answer to that but would like to know for my own jemmy builds. It ignores shields and is pretty good against Voth and gets boosted by sets.

    The issue to me is the damage value of the Protonic Polaron Proc. They're very small. And if you want to boost Proton dmg? The sources are minimal.

    The Universal Console from the Dyson Weapon Set.

    Dyson Rep TAC Consoles - This is a costly console to use. You have 2 half-assed base damage increases to the basic weapon and Proton Dmg. Worst of all, they grant no critical hit or severity bonus. This makes horrible sense even when S8 came out that introduced Dyson Reputation. Protonic Polaron Procs live or die based on a chance *IF* you crit. But boosting your Proton Dmg to worthwhile numbers using Dyson Rep Consoles nukes your Crit Hit, and thereby your success with the proc to occur frequently.

    And if you want dmg procs that have more value, Plasma Burns, Disruptor Hull Breach (indirectly contributing, not inflicting more damage by itself), Radiation Dmg (such as from Bio-Molecular Weapons, Neutronic Torp, etc). Plasma Burns and Radiation Dmg are straight to hull damage. Radiation can get some nice numbers. I've had Bio-Molecular Radiation dmg go for 2k damage if you build for it. The damage achieved from Protonic Polaron Proc is still too small, and the novelty of its damage proc going straight to hull is not unique anymore.
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  • woodwhity
    woodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Real polarons with CrtDx4 or CrtDx3 Pen obviously, a hellish storm of vampiric energy crushing enemies.



    P.S.: For the question "is protonic damage worth the loss of a modifier" the answer is no, its far inferior to CrtH/D, and I would give dmg a fair chance to be superior to it.
  • jackal1701apw
    jackal1701apw Member Posts: 668 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    woodwhity wrote: »
    Real polarons with CrtDx4 or CrtDx3 Pen obviously, a hellish storm of vampiric energy crushing enemies.



    P.S.: For the question "is protonic damage worth the loss of a modifier" the answer is no, its far inferior to CrtH/D, and I would give dmg a fair chance to be superior to it.

    real polarons it is then :)
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  • saxmanusmc
    saxmanusmc Member Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    My question about the Dominion Polaron weapons is are they upgrade-able? Has anyone tried yet?
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  • mirrorchaos
    mirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,817 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    one of my toons runs polarized disruptors, i have yet to upgrade the disruptor consoles to match, but im fairly confident they can kick the TRIBBLE out of the enemy with some nice additionals.

    i was thinking of trying a polaron build out, but based on what i have seen, better to stick with the standard polarons until there is a more or less majority answer to the question.
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  • j0hn41
    j0hn41 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    woodwhity wrote: »
    Real polarons with CrtDx4 or CrtDx3 Pen obviously, a hellish storm of vampiric energy crushing enemies.

    P.S.: For the question "is protonic damage worth the loss of a modifier" the answer is no, its far inferior to CrtH/D, and I would give dmg a fair chance to be superior to it.

    Yeah, that's one of the big questions I had. It's not like I was going to try and boost proton dmg anyway.

    The phaser proc is kind of fun, but I can't imagine the random system disable would result in more dmg consistently than an extra modifier, (and it doesn't seem to work all the time against certain NPCs, but that might just be me).

    Thanks for all the help folks.
  • warmaker001b
    warmaker001b Member Posts: 9,182 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    j0hn41 wrote: »
    Yeah, that's one of the big questions I had. It's not like I was going to try and boost proton dmg anyway.

    The phaser proc is kind of fun, but I can't imagine the random system disable would result in more dmg consistently than an extra modifier, (and it doesn't seem to work all the time against certain NPCs, but that might just be me).

    Thanks for all the help folks.

    The issue with *all* Subsystem Disable abilities is that it's very easily resisted these days. In PVP, Subsystem Repair neuters such disables a lot. In PVE, Cryptic decided to nerf disables by granting NPCs resists to them. Not only this, the Phaser Proc gives the target immunity to further disables for several seconds.

    Whether you talk about Subsystem Disables from Phaser Procs to Science disabling abilities such as Viral Matrix, Photonic Shockwave, or TAC Captain / Science Vessel Target Subsystem. It's all completely useless for every facet of the game.

    When STO was new, Phaser's Proc was a very nasty proc. There were no immunities to grant just from landing Phaser Proc. The devs added that later. Subsystem Repair was not boosted to neuter disabling abilities. Tons of Feds all shooting Phasers in PVP or PVE was something to be concerned with, because an unlucky string of Phaser Proc Subsystem Disables could really be catastrophic to the target. In PVP or PVE.
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  • lordkhorak
    lordkhorak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Who cares about the proc, the polaron cannons *sound* awesome.
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  • markhawkman
    markhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    The issue with *all* Subsystem Disable abilities is that it's very easily resisted these days. In PVP, Subsystem Repair neuters such disables a lot. In PVE, Cryptic decided to nerf disables by granting NPCs resists to them. Not only this, the Phaser Proc gives the target immunity to further disables for several seconds.

    Whether you talk about Subsystem Disables from Phaser Procs to Science disabling abilities such as Viral Matrix, Photonic Shockwave, or TAC Captain / Science Vessel Target Subsystem. It's all completely useless for every facet of the game.

    When STO was new, Phaser's Proc was a very nasty proc. There were no immunities to grant just from landing Phaser Proc. The devs added that later. Subsystem Repair was not boosted to neuter disabling abilities. Tons of Feds all shooting Phasers in PVP or PVE was something to be concerned with, because an unlucky string of Phaser Proc Subsystem Disables could really be catastrophic to the target. In PVP or PVE.
    In fairness... Cardassians were a nightmare back then simply because if they got lucky they could disable all your subsystems and keep them that way...

    Apparently PvP had a fair bit of this too.
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  • rodentmaster
    rodentmaster Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    saxmanusmc wrote: »
    My question about the Dominion Polaron weapons is are they upgrade-able? Has anyone tried yet?

    Yes. By simply previewing them in the upgrade screen it will convert them to blue XIs with 2 fixed mods. I have played around with one set of dual cannons and got it to very rare XIV. It upgrades well enough, though the entire upgrade system is overpriced by 10x.
  • razar2380
    razar2380 Member Posts: 1,181 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    When comparing the same MK and quality of polaron base damage weapons, the Protonic Polarons can do more damage than ones with an extra mod. It depends on your crit chance. If you have higher than 10%, then it is really good to have.

    A few things to keep in mind about them is that the proton damage doesn't happen only when they proc. They have proton damage with every shot, and almost all NPCs have little to no resistance to it. So, it helps to boost your damage per shot higher even when you don't crit.

    I have Phased Polarons, Protonic Polarons, and regular Polarons. Protonic Polarons rank at the top of my list for straight damage, and for best proc. The regular Polarons rank second, and the Phased are last. Phased are last because it is random which subsystem gets knocked offline. If the NPC doesn't use any skills that need aux power, but they knock it offline, you just wasted a proc.

    The only time you will see the regular Polarons step above the Protonic is when you have two or more mods. One mod is not going to make them more powerful. And even with two, then you are comparing two different quality weapons, and the comparison is not comparable. It would be like comparing a MK XII green to a MK XII purple of the same energy type. No comparison.

    So from my personal experience testing them, the Protonic Polarons of the same MK and quality are far superior to the regular Polarons. And if you have 10% or higher crit chance, they just do that more damage. This will be the case till they give the NPCs more resistance to proton damage. When their resistance to proton damage reaches where it is for other energy types, it will need to be tested again.

    For tac consoles, I would stick with just the regular Polaron energy types. The Protonic are only good if you are using the DSD and experimental beam together, and your consoles don't do more than 24.4% or 26.1%. Then you will see a good increase in DPS. Nothing game changing, but it is better.

    Aside from that particular situation, I would stick with the polaron tac consoles.


    As far as whether or not I think the Polaron energy type is the best, it depends on the difficulty of the STF, or PVE you are running. On normal, they can kill as fast as the Antiproton. However, in advanced, they fall a little behind since the ones that do burn, or radiation damage can kill the hull while shields are still up. Even the Protonic Polarons have trouble doing this as fast as regular Plasma weapons. But it doesn't mean they are useless. They still pack a good punch, but just require more time on target to kill in advanced. This can result in higher DPS totals, but fewer kills because you are hitting the shields more than the other energy types will need to.

    Hope this helps.
    SSO = Starfleet (not so) Special Operations Group
  • desertjets
    desertjets Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Dominion Polaron seems like a good choice if you want to do it on the cheap. Only downside is rerunning Boldly the Rode a few too many times. IIRC correctly their mods are [CritH] and [Dmg]. I ran them through the upgrade grinder to MkXIV but never got a rarity upgrade -- for 5x beams that was a little pricey. The big thing for me with them is that they look cool and sound cool -- oh and they have actual useful procs.
  • kozar2
    kozar2 Member Posts: 602 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Dominion (for higher base damage) or standard. There are no others worth considering. You really need to run an upgraded Dominion set with them to make them shine though. Of course running that on a Dominion ship makes it really good.

    But if you just want the Polaron proc then Polarized Disruptors are your best choice. You can then run 2 pieces from the last rep and then what every shield, engine, WC, Deflector combo you like.
  • rodentmaster
    rodentmaster Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Razar, I and several others have the exact opposite opinion after parsing the protonic proc. It is abysmally small for a proc. And yes, that's even with a CrtH over 20%. It barely made up 1.9% (if I recall) of the damage output from the weapons which proc'd it. It doesn't matter if it supposedly has a higher rate (which is a laugh, it's a chance on a chance) if the damage it does at any given time is so low.

    I was planning to do some more comprehensive testing in more sterile environments to eliminate variables, but with all the utter mess that is DR and essentially ruining the game, I didn't get around to it.
  • razar2380
    razar2380 Member Posts: 1,181 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Razar, I and several others have the exact opposite opinion after parsing the protonic proc. It is abysmally small for a proc. And yes, that's even with a CrtH over 20%. It barely made up 1.9% (if I recall) of the damage output from the weapons which proc'd it. It doesn't matter if it supposedly has a higher rate (which is a laugh, it's a chance on a chance) if the damage it does at any given time is so low.

    I was planning to do some more comprehensive testing in more sterile environments to eliminate variables, but with all the utter mess that is DR and essentially ruining the game, I didn't get around to it.

    The proc only part of it. You need to remember that the NPCs don't have a resistance to Proton damage. Also, if you have more time on target, then you will get higher DPS numbers. The best thing to do is also look at how quickly you kill the targets.

    For example, I had a friend that was using AP weapons in the Cure (on advanced). I was using Plasma. He had higher DPS than I did, but I was killing the BOPs faster. He had more time on target hitting shields, then the hull. And if they turned to present another shield facing, he started all over again.

    However, I was able to drop them before a single shield facing dropped. I was using MK XII purple weapons, and he was using MK XIII UR. Aside from that, our builds were almost the same, except energy type. I matched his traits before going in, and he had the same skill tree setup as I did. And, we were both tactical.

    According to the DPS, he should have killed more than me. However, I had more kills than he did. DPS is not all it is about.

    The NPCs have little to no resistance to Proton damage. This means that if hit with proton damage, they take more damage from it. Also, you are looking at two different procs that can happen, instead of just one.

    The 2.5% chance is set. Not much can change that. However, the 25% chance can happen more times by increasing how much of a chance you can crit. With 15% crit chance, I have seen crit just roll off the targets. Also, if someone uses GW, or Tractor Beam, that will just help increase the chances of a crit. Personally, I like the combination of GW, and the Particle Emissions torp. If you use the Warp Plasma Doff with them, you can have a chance to disable them. This results in even higher crit, thereby increasing how many times you crit, and increasing the odds of the 25% proc to happen.

    While all of that is happening, the main Polaron proc is also hitting. So the enemy's subsystems are taking a hit, and weakens their shields, damage output, and speed (increasing the chance to crit if not already held in place).

    So everything together make it a very good weapon. Even better than regular Polarons. Plus, if you can add in all of the other things mentioned above, it makes it more powerful. But don't forget to time how long you are on target. If you kill it faster, you can end up with lower DPS, but faster kills.

    Also, the programs that the parsers use is the combat log. The combat log doesn't always record all of the damage delta. I showed this to some friends before. Sometimes the damage delta to a target can be higher than the combat log records. And that is on both the person shooting, and one taking damage. I have sat across from a friend in a private PVP map, and hit him with a DBB using BO 3. Their shields were destroyed, and the combat log from both of us didn't show anything was done. But the damage ticked above their ship, and the damage was recorded in the PVP window that shows what everyone did.

    That is why I stopped using parsers, because time on target(s) is more important. The faster they go down, the better. No matter what the parser says.
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  • rodentmaster
    rodentmaster Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I'm not talking about a DPS meter for the entire ship. I'm talking comparing apples to apples. You get exactly the damage from protonic spelled out for you. You take it and do the math and it's LOW. Any other mod is better and results in a better damage output.

    Again, I'm not talking about anything even piloting-related. I'm talking straight-up numbers. Protonic < all others.
  • woodwhity
    woodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I'm not talking about a DPS meter for the entire ship. I'm talking comparing apples to apples. You get exactly the damage from protonic spelled out for you. You take it and do the math and it's LOW. Any other mod is better and results in a better damage output.

    I second that.

    Also: if you use APB, then all enemies other than Crystalline entity has no dmg-res.
    Comparing one player with another doesnt help. If I compare my weakest char to the average pug I will still win many comparisions.
  • kostamojenx
    kostamojenx Member Posts: 251 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I'm running a full set of MK XIV Dominion Polaron beams on my dread now. Used to use Protonic but I wanted to ditch the Experimental and the console.

    Dominion Polarons have one more proc than any other Polaron weapon when at the equivalent rarity. So basically a are Dominion Polaron has the equivalent stats of a Very Rare regular polaron and so forth.
  • welcome2earf
    welcome2earf Member Posts: 1,746 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    razar2380 wrote: »
    A few things to keep in mind about them is that the proton damage doesn't happen only when they proc. They have proton damage with every shot,


    I'm pretty sure this is false.
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  • j0hn41
    j0hn41 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    razar2380 wrote: »
    A few things to keep in mind about them is that the proton damage doesn't happen only when they proc. They have proton damage with every shot,

    I'm pretty sure this is false.

    Yeah, I don't see anything on the tool tip that would indicate proton dmg with every shot.
  • reginamala78
    reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    So while people complain about lackluster radiation damage and the pointless -crit thing, what about the placate on the Thoron weapons?
  • razar2380
    razar2380 Member Posts: 1,181 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    j0hn41 wrote: »
    Yeah, I don't see anything on the tool tip that would indicate proton dmg with every shot.

    I don't have any proton only weapons on my Defiant, and the combat log records proton damage with almost every shot, even without crit. If they don't do it with every shot, then my proton proc is hitting almost every shot, and hits harder when I crit.
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  • woodwhity
    woodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    razar2380 wrote: »
    I don't have any proton only weapons on my Defiant, and the combat log records proton damage with almost every shot, even without crit. If they don't do it with every shot, then my proton proc is hitting almost every shot, and hits harder when I crit.

    No, it doesnt. Tested it many times, it simply doesnt. If you have a log, upload it so we can validate what you say. Atm its unlikely at best.
  • rodentmaster
    rodentmaster Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    What Woodwhity said. I promise you it's not every shot.