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Everything is DPS, strong healers left in the dust.
oridjerraa
Member Posts: 313 Arc User
I recently tried building a dps cruiser, including paying cash for a respect, to be a better asset for the rare advance runs I can find. Know what, it ain't my thing. I can't brag about how much healing and survival my cruiser has because it don't mean jack squat in pve. Running doffs and consoles that put my healing through the roof means nothing when anyone can tank the hardest content.
I'm back to my old build that can pump out a palsy 10k if I'm lucky. I can heal like crazy, but no one needs a healer/tank.
Do you think this is a problem Cryptic, or do you just don't care?
I'm back to my old build that can pump out a palsy 10k if I'm lucky. I can heal like crazy, but no one needs a healer/tank.
Do you think this is a problem Cryptic, or do you just don't care?
Post edited by oridjerraa on
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But i do agree on the whole. DPS is always king in STO.
Sure there are alot more options now than there used to be but seriously, some of the skills have gotten worse. Now we really do have a problem because we're having to wait on cd so much now that we all do have to be on Aux to Bat builds just to survive. It's crazy I can't believe that these devs don't realize the mess they've created and I bet they still think that the Aux2bat builds are to blame when really it's their terrible cooldown system
Add to that the frustration of having those Vesta ships with shield heal minis but not being able to control what they are doing because they broke the stupid command structure for healer minis. smh
It's really quite frustrating honestly.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1188601
:rolleyes:
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Got two teams doing that, you can literally sit for 3 minutes waiting for the dreadnought.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Seriously dude you really need to look up what a "tank" means if you think that thanking means to "deal a good chunk of damage" because you are all wrong about that. Since the beginning of MMOs (yeah I mean EQ and UO) tanks never was meant for damage. It was all about "threat" and that's it. And you really don't understand tanks (even in this game) to realize they have it right but you are actually doing something wrong if you can't just go in and grab something from any dps who "thinks" he/she is dodge tanking.
While running any tank ship the player MUST always think about threat and staying alive and never (not for one minute) think about dps or damage. The problem with this game is not the cruiser nor players failing at tanking if they spend points and buy items for threat. The problem is some players who are flying ships who also add to their threat is what most tanks are coming up against. If you are spending more and more on dps and trying to tank then you are failing at a tank and should just respec because you are on a different path all together.
You cannot tank if your damage generation is too low since the glass cannons will generate more threat than you can even when using taunt abilities. That's why tanks have always had the need for either taunts or damage generation (which is called "reflective tanking").The result is that you will pretty much be ignored the whole time, neither tanking anything nor contributing in a significant matter to kill the enemy.
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It's a while I was thinking to post my opinion about DR and several changes to the game.
I am mainly concerned just about
1) how devs managed the revamp of pve queues
2) the general idea about what we should do/how we should play
1) old elite queues were too easy, much of what devs added helped us to have very high dps... moreover after playing for years the same contents we developed builds and tactics do complete every queue in a few minutes (sometime less than 2-3). But instead of revamping some mechanics (to reduce the power creep or increase npc's AI) they choose an insane increase of npcs hp and resistance. As conseguence actually too many players can't complete advanced queues and even better players need to upgrade their items to hame more dps and again we have much more power creep (several players have demostrated they can have up to 100k dps!!!!!)
2) even as conseguence of 1) what we are doing is just grinding more, because we need to grind for everything (and you need to do it to play some contents) and when you have had the gears you need you find there is little fun in playing what you had played "ad infinitum" (forevermore) although at lower difficult level.
p.s.
sorry for my bad english, I hope you can understand it
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
I can tank the world now with my Tac Officer flying a T5U Fleet Aquarius with MK XIV gear and the crapload of traits that we have now.
No need for big lumbering cruisers anymore I guess...
However the truth is (especially for space) in general killing mobs fast means you don't take as much damage and can finish the objectives/optionals more easily. It doesn't help that heals' cds are too long and tend to be single target rather than aoe. For pugging anyway, if you have an old trinity style build you are gimping the team. Once you know your ship's weaknesses you should be trying to plug it to achieve a more balanced build.
I for one don't miss the trinity at all. No more blaming the healers or tanks for a mission/quest failure, when it was a dpser who pull too much threat too quickly; or only requesting certain classes while leaving others out in the cold.
"Trinity" play has never existed in STO. Never has, even in the early days of the game. You could always take your Captain class into whatever ship type, and drastically change how that ship plays. I recall in the early days of STO, I regularly took my Fed Vulcan TAC Captain in her Lv40 Assault Cruiser to maul Klingons in PVP, running over Birds of Prey with Ramming Speed, coming out alive even before the DOFF system was even a pipedream. I recall taking my KDF Orion ENG into PVP in a Vo'Quv, able to hold a Fed team's focus, enabling my teammates to have more room in killing the enemy. The point is, right off the bat, with that kind of alteration and switching around of captain types to ships, Trinity was thrown out the window.
Do not let the presence of old style TAC or ENG or SCI heavy ships like the Defiant, Intrepid, Lv40 Assault Cruiser, Galaxy mislead you. The very fact that we have ships with "hybrid" BOFF setups nullifies that. The very first to do this was the C-Store Akira at endgame. It was the first Escort to have LtCdr ENG, and I remind everyone, that was a BIG ****ING DEAL back then. Then you had more and more ships with hybrid BOFF setups. Then you had more and more ships with Universal BOFF stations, to include even very potent Cmdr Universal Stations (KDF BOPs paid severely for their Universal stations, yet other ships having the high flexibility of Universal stations paid no price whatsoever).
Cryptic also, long ago, upped the Hull & Shields of Escorts, gave them Bonus Defense. Escorts used to be much, much flimsier, closer in hull & shields to a Bird of Prey than they do now which are a few points shy of Cruiser hull & shields. More gameplay alterations, additions have been done to STO to make it the DPS > All game that it is now. It is NOT a recent thing.
Anyways, we have:
- Glass Cannons that can tank.
- Tanks that do immense damage.
- Science that's... trying... to do something, exactly what it's good for, I dunno. Not like it used to be when STO released. That was Science's brightest era.
The focus on DPS is not recent. It's not even under a year old. It's been that way for such a long time now. And the "Trinity" never existed in STO.
Read my post again, I never said the trinity existed in STO.
Anyways, When your goal is to kill the enemy either you or a team mate needs to be able to kill said enemy. If you lack teammates... well...
Truth is that any class can kill things, some can do it faster than others, but any can get the job done.
My character Tsin'xing
Very much this. I've been on some MIN runs with a Mirror Nova that is only running Mk XI Rares, and teamed up with someone who CAN DPS - we were closing rifts left right and centre, because I had almost no threat. They'd setup between three rifts and blast away - I'd have them all closed before the mobs were even completely cleared out, we'd finish up, and move on to the next bunch.
Those runs - sitting around waiting for the boss for a while. Almost too easy.
Part of what I see is that equipment in the game is too unbalanced, and alot of mechanics are just broken.
For example
-Emergency Force Fields. Why would anyone equip this? Crew is worthless. I can be a zombie ship and the only thing it really impacts is Boarding Party (which why would I use in the first place as well?)
-Prefire Chamber - Vulnerability Locators of the appropriate damage type would be better. Or even another Phaser Relay (etc). Especially if not an ALL-cannon build.
-Biofunction Monitor (or biobeds, whatever they are) - again, crew - pretty much broken.
-MANY, MANY more.
-Engineering (and some science) boff powers that are often underwhelming.
There are so many consoles that are just not worth using. The reason for this is that the game does not punish for making choices in skills and equipment that should be fatal. On a ship crewed by 1000 people - if they are all DEAD, your ship should be dead in space. If you have few points in subsystem repair, it should take longer for them to be fixed, even with boff powers.
There are few ways to even fix it at this point.
First, game mechanics (like crew, and to an extent hull repair, subsystem repair, etc) would have to be fixed. How to do this? No idea. I suspect Cryptic has no idea, which is why it has never been fixed.
Cryptic could then make it so you can only equip one of each console type (or make the diminishing returns so bad that it wouldn't be worth stacking the same consoles over and over), forcing people to think about what abilities etc their ship would have - but the riots on the forums and in game from those currently heavily invested in their builds would be unbelievable.
So the current meta will likely remain. Stack up your energy-of-choice boosting consoles, Neutronium Armor and RCS for cruisers, and a few sci consoles of choice (and universals). With the DPS-rules-all endgame we have, each ship only has a few viable builds - basically, phone a friend that has one, adjust for the energy type desired.
Consoles used to be MORE imbalanced. I used to be that the shield boost consoles were eng.
Also, "only a few builds" does not really mean the builds have no diversity. Just that only some builds are suited for each ship.
My character Tsin'xing
I was responding to the OP's topic. Which is what people do in a thread. Pretty self explanatory really.
Agreed 100% - and yes, those Engineering Consoles are another prime example of what I'm talking about with useless equipment and skills.
When I'm talking about "only a few builds", it's that the game's mechanics have pinholed us into a much smaller subset of equipment and skills than what's available. There are no builds where Emergency Force Fields or a Booster Modulator etc are going to be wanted.
My "Beginner's Mistake" with my Fleet Gal-X was as follows:
Advanced Fleet phasers and photons all around.
1 FleetNeutronium Mk XII
1 Fleet RCS Mk XII
1 VR SIF Mk XI
Antimatter Spread
1 VR Stealth Module Mk XII
Cloaking Device
1 Rare Phaser Relay Mk XI
1 VR Prefire Chamber Mk XI
1 VR Photon console (forget the name) Mk XI
Saucer Sep
I only have/had one set of DHCs on it, and 2 torps. At the time I built the ship up, I figured I would want to boost the set of cannons and the torps so I hit harder from front and back. I had not done the maths and testing, and figured that since I had 10 console slots, I'd want ten distinct consoles, each contributing something different to the picture. Instead I've been realizing that the cloak may be fun, but not very good, and the torp and cannons add so little to my overall DPS that they aren't worth wasting console slots on either. Been taking alot of dil and fleet credits to slowly fix the build,
The scary part is that setup - isn't as far down the "unuseable" path that some of the gear in this game could trick new players into going (ie very rare high mark consoles of very little value).
Usually the highest DPS goes to the Scimitar due to it's massive damage capabilities as well as hangars.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
I'm still too new to give too much in the way of build advice, but to answer how to "rate" a build.
People parse the combat log using a Combat Log Reader - google is friend here, not sure if they can be linked to in the forums without breaking some rule. Small maps with alot of combat are kind've the best metric. ISE pre-DR seemed to be the standard. I've seen people use the Starbase patrol in Tau Dewa as a good "solo" set of numbers.
Build advice can be found all over the place, in The Academy subforum there's alot of good stuff - Federation Shipyards (or faction of choice) you can get good advice. STOAcademy's website has alot of builds that have been made "public" over the years, and websites kicking around the internet.
TBH, I personally feel a good build is one that improves over time, and has some sort of a "plan" (ie hit harder with weapon x, or survive longer because of consoles y, z, and
You can use the combatlogreader (which reads out the combatlog written of the game. The program itself is english and has a how-to in it). Most ships are capable of 30k on tac toons, 20k on non-tac, only non carrier sci ships ship around 10k potentially. Some ships, like JHDC,Scimitars are capable of 50k in a pug, more in a good team (thats were the 100k comes from).
Pretty much everything over 20k can be considered high dps, a value odysseys on enginners and vestas on sci are capable to do in a pug.
Though the number alone doesnt make much of a rating (at least not until a certain point of dps, beyound anything just dies fast). Sure, with 20k everything will die fast, but a 20k CRF-Escort can do it even more quickly than a 30k beam-scimitar (focused dps vs. AoE basically), and then there are those sci-torpedo-attrox, also capable of 20k, with CC and Drain, which make up for quite some bit of dps.
So to be clear, the number alone isnt the only thing you need to consider, though honestly, if you do more than 40k it doesnt really matter, as the enemies just die very quickly^^