The only difference I see is the DPS-Channel Settings use "Entity's Combat Time (From first to last hit)" and "Pets use combat time of owner" is active, whereas Default Settings use "Active Combat time (Dmg-Out only) and "Pets use combat time of owner" is inactive.
Those changes in combat time would obviously affect DPS considerably.
Yeah, I must have missed that little tid bit, because I didn't really notice off hand any changes really.
So, that's a story of a guy using a T1 ship in a team with 3 scimitard and a recluse. The other 3 debuff the targets like mad, and remove shield (not like the borgs have much shield anyway). So the T1 ship is free to use his HY torps on exposed and heavily debuffed hull. Which obviously lead to some nasty damage.
And suddenly he is a god for everyone ? Yeah right... I'm not saying Ryan is bad, because he is not. But I think many people could do exactly the same with the same team and the same ship. Not much skill involved by tossing a torp as soon as a shield drop.
The video is funny, but it doesn't prove anything. Except perhaps that torpedoes on debuffed hull makes big explosions. Or that some pug are bad.
The video was funny, I liked the enterprise music, made me laugh. And the part where he is OSK by a cube warp core breach. But OP present the video like a fanboy. Kinda scary.
Actually, it shows his ability to outfit and pilot a ship properly for such numbers to even come up. Essentially, I think he went with what could be considered a "canon" build for it by the choice of torpedoes only (aside from using ones not even known at the time the ship was first designedly). Though he could have done deal beam and torpedo with either beam array or torpedo in the aft, that would be "canon" as well.
Come on, am I the only one who see a well stuffed (MK XIII UR torp, MK XIV epic tachyo...) NX hitting heavily debuffed hull ?
I would accept the challenge, if I had half the stuff he have for his build. But I don't. I'm still using my good old MKXII not upgraded stuff. Then, I would have to find the 4 debuffer, and I haven't them.
And finally, I would need to make a youtube account, a video, and I don't want to.
I thought I was just speaking common sense, but it seems I was not. So yeah, GG for hitting debuffed hull with torps ! Woohoo, you are awesome !:rolleyes:
So, that's a story of a guy using a T1 ship in a team with 3 scimitard and a recluse. The other 3 debuff the targets like mad, and remove shield (not like the borgs have much shield anyway). So the T1 ship is free to use his HY torps on exposed and heavily debuffed hull. Which obviously lead to some nasty damage.
And suddenly he is a god for everyone ? Yeah right... I'm not saying Ryan is bad, because he is not. But I think many people could do exactly the same with the same team and the same ship. Not much skill involved by tossing a torp as soon as a shield drop.
The video is funny, but it doesn't prove anything. Except perhaps that torpedoes on debuffed hull makes big explosions. Or that some pug are bad.
The video was funny, I liked the enterprise music, made me laugh. And the part where he is OSK by a cube warp core breach. But OP present the video like a fanboy. Kinda scary.
See, I am at once respectful of the piloting skill and of the mind that things like this DO indicate the game needs massive rebalancing.
Skill is seriously OP in STO, as is teamwork. I realize that for some people, skill and teamwork should have limitless power but I still kinda think a strong point of an MMO is meeting and playing with strangers in content that can be tuned for them all to play together while contributing at least close to equally.
This level of teamwork and skill is admirable... and also broken.
I haven't used the DPS channels to group up in over a year, simply because I like pugging and building my ships to try to survive the pug. lol
But, his point stands. When a pug does come together right, Scimitar,Recluse, etc. Suddenly yeah I'm doing 10-20k more then normally. Normally I do 18-30k with all my toons.
When I get together with a couple friends, same thing. I parse alot higher. Not because I'm piloting any different. One time I have skills, one time I don't or one time I got lucky, yada yada.
There is skill in STO, but the ship is being carried because of the team. Not sure why the bickering back and forth. If it truly is all skill that did it. Then do it with a 5 man team in the same ship. Ditch the scimitars, Recluse, etc.
I didn't bother to watch the video, no time right now and I took the post as a joke. But, not a joke on the difficulty of the game needing to be rebalanced simply because someone can be carried by the team.
Well , the "fake" DPS was fun to watch , too bad it was executed by an equally fake pilot ... -- and I'll explain both remarks below .
- This vid leaves little doubt as to how the high DPS numbers are reached (debuffs by others , not the pilot's own accomplishment) , which in turn leads to a fake / unrealistic scenario , which in turn leads to fake numbers .
Sort of like running an experiment where the situation is rigged to see if a specific result can be achieved . The 40K Galaxy run showed that if you don't kill things fast enough in your fake setup , your teammates die left and right (see toward the end) -- which to me looks like a noob setup , not a real one .
- As to that I mean by the "fake pilot" remark ... , well Ryan has made multiple comments in the defense of the "DPS channels" that he has no interest in carrying "scrubs" and / or a team .
Guess who's being carried here Ryan ... you are !
Congrats for the "achievement" ... , I certainly enjoyed the irony ...
Can we call you "scrub" now ?
... so keep producing these shows ... , but they're just as real as "reality TV" is ... -- which in turn shows who the fans of that "genre" are here ... .
Well , the "fake" DPS was fun to watch , too bad it was executed by an equally fake pilot ... -- and I'll explain both remarks below .
- This vid leaves little doubt as to how the high DPS numbers are reached (debuffs by others , not the pilot's own accomplishment) , which in turn leads to a fake / unrealistic scenario , which in turn leads to fake numbers .
Sort of like running an experiment where the situation is rigged to see if a specific result can be achieved . The 40K Galaxy run showed that if you don't kill things fast enough in your fake setup , your teammates die left and right (see toward the end) -- which to me looks like a noob setup , not a real one .
- As to that I mean by the "fake pilot" remark ... , well Ryan has made multiple comments in the defense of the "DPS channels" that he has no interest in carrying "scrubs" and / or a team .
Guess who's being carried here Ryan ... you are !
Congrats for the "achievement" ... , I certainly enjoyed the irony ...
Can we call you "scrub" now ?
... so keep producing these shows ... , but they're just as real as "reality TV" is ... -- which in turn shows who the fans of that "genre" are here ... .
Welcome to the discussion captain butthurt
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
Yawn..cool vid but wake me up when you accomplish this with 5 nx's...goes back to sleep as 5 scimitars decloak on this thread unloading bfaw spam and pwning everyone.
Well , the "fake" DPS was fun to watch , too bad it was executed by an equally fake pilot ... -- and I'll explain both remarks below .
- This vid leaves little doubt as to how the high DPS numbers are reached (debuffs by others , not the pilot's own accomplishment) , which in turn leads to a fake / unrealistic scenario , which in turn leads to fake numbers .
Sort of like running an experiment where the situation is rigged to see if a specific result can be achieved.
Agreed and the true heart of the problem STO balance has always had. Teamwork is OP, or 5x anything gets stupid strong fast. I don't mean the teamwork is OP in a positive way either rather that if your team brings the right stuff it will excel.
Scimitar DPS is not as impressive without APB Recluse support. Unless of course your team utilizes the Jem Hadar two piece set for attack pattern gamma buffing and expose? vulnerability debuffing I suppose.
This is not meant as an insult to the capabilities of the DPS teams. Although you would likely get a bit less flak if you stopped misrepresenting things and dialed back the ego a touch.
Well , the "fake" DPS was fun to watch , too bad it was executed by an equally fake pilot ... -- and I'll explain both remarks below .
- This vid leaves little doubt as to how the high DPS numbers are reached (debuffs by others , not the pilot's own accomplishment) , which in turn leads to a fake / unrealistic scenario , which in turn leads to fake numbers .
Sort of like running an experiment where the situation is rigged to see if a specific result can be achieved . The 40K Galaxy run showed that if you don't kill things fast enough in your fake setup , your teammates die left and right (see toward the end) -- which to me looks like a noob setup , not a real one .
- As to that I mean by the "fake pilot" remark ... , well Ryan has made multiple comments in the defense of the "DPS channels" that he has no interest in carrying "scrubs" and / or a team .
Guess who's being carried here Ryan ... you are !
Congrats for the "achievement" ... , I certainly enjoyed the irony ...
Can we call you "scrub" now ?
... so keep producing these shows ... , but they're just as real as "reality TV" is ... -- which in turn shows who the fans of that "genre" are here ... .
I will reiterate, organized teamwork is OP here. It really puts a dampener on disorganized play that organized effort can allow someone to do those kinds of numbers.
I will reiterate, organized teamwork is OP here. It really puts a dampener on disorganized play that organized effort can allow someone to do those kinds of numbers.
Counterpoint: If optimal play is established through teamwork, you have greater incentive to meet, socialize with, and get to know other players. You need to be conscious of their play style, their build, how your build interacts with their build, and so on, and so forth...
I mean, skill absolutely should be a factor. Games, in general, should reward greater skill. And I think MMOs in particular should encourage and reward socialization and team building (which arguably requires even greater knowledge and skill than if you were to just optimize your own individual build without considering how it might interact with and against others), because otherwise, why not just play an offline/single-player game?
DPS-Elite - "One of us got 40k out of a Galaxy Retrofit, and 8k out of an NX!"
Other players - "Meh." "Lets see you do it under my prescribed circumstances." "Teamwork doesn't count." "Debuff stacking is cheating." "Crit builds are wrong." "My understanding of how DPS parsers is flawed but I'm just going to run my incorrect mouth anyway." "What about the average person who can't do 10k in a T6?" "But what about my special snowflake build?"
FFS.
It really is a shame that this applies in this thread too. A player literally does the STO impossible - takes an NX and out-DPSes pretty much 99% of players in STO - and all the forumites can think to do is disparage it.
You think you have it bad, 5k over here my friend. And proud of it! :P
Is the build of that NX available to view anywhere perchance? Probably just as easy to write it up I guess...not much to write...
There is a point where he brings up what the ship is equipped with while repairing damage, and to equip a torp which had unequipped, but for me youtube graphic glitches make it blur so badly I can only tell one or two items out.
Yet for some reason that random scimitar in the first video did less damage than he did. I guess the debuffs didn't apply to his weapons. :rolleyes:
It could be possible that they ran low weapons power and lower Mk items to greatly lower thei damage output. There are plenty of ways to lower your damage and still contribute to the team.
the first two runs shown took place in the random Queue, premade of 4, +1
The Recluse and the Jem'dread both benefitted (equal to me) of our OP beta stacking.
The last run was a fullpremade (as said in video's description) to test how far we could take it:
base (or sometimes reffered to as raw) DPS of the last run was 17070 DPS, that is not including any damageincreases by debuffed resistances. No Betas, FOMM etc.
On one post someone calls me out for using Omega3 over Beta3, because it apparently isnt good teamplay. On all the Damage runs its Beta3 being OP and not allowed to use. (The 101k run had a base DPS of 57k something, how many people do that even WITH betas?)
We also may not use Beams, Crit Chance, Crit Damage, universal consoles and so on and so on.
Or how about, we just try to optimize within the system and see how far we can go? I wonder why people think that I am not aware of the betas being used, personally I dont like how the balancing in this game currently is, but it is how it is. And I am neither going to ignore it, because I have to insist on my "playstyle", nor will discuss on these forums how things should be different, because there is really nothing that could be achieved with 25 people ready to jump at you, regardless of what you propose.
As such it is pretty awesome. It's just not being portrayed as such a thing very well due to the nature of forums. If you tossed some Voice Over description on the actual vid, where you mention this is about 'how far a team can help enable an NX to deal such DPS' that might help.
ISA DPS challenge: Only use an NX-Class Ship and see if you can beat a player on the random Queue on DPS.
First run:
Race against a player in a Recluse and see if I can stay ahead of him on DPS, funny conversation ensued.
Second run:
A Jem'Hadar Dreadnough, actually decently built, close match.
Third run:
We actually wanted to see what the ship could do, after getting more used to flying it like that, this is now a real premade group.
I blame it all on my dying. Watch out for the fireworks
Obviously for comical multi-purpose missions.
Thanks to everyone involved
Comments
Yeah, I must have missed that little tid bit, because I didn't really notice off hand any changes really.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Yeah, right.
prove that if u can :P this is a challenge.
Actually, it shows his ability to outfit and pilot a ship properly for such numbers to even come up. Essentially, I think he went with what could be considered a "canon" build for it by the choice of torpedoes only (aside from using ones not even known at the time the ship was first designedly). Though he could have done deal beam and torpedo with either beam array or torpedo in the aft, that would be "canon" as well.
I would accept the challenge, if I had half the stuff he have for his build. But I don't. I'm still using my good old MKXII not upgraded stuff. Then, I would have to find the 4 debuffer, and I haven't them.
And finally, I would need to make a youtube account, a video, and I don't want to.
I thought I was just speaking common sense, but it seems I was not. So yeah, GG for hitting debuffed hull with torps ! Woohoo, you are awesome !:rolleyes:
See, I am at once respectful of the piloting skill and of the mind that things like this DO indicate the game needs massive rebalancing.
Skill is seriously OP in STO, as is teamwork. I realize that for some people, skill and teamwork should have limitless power but I still kinda think a strong point of an MMO is meeting and playing with strangers in content that can be tuned for them all to play together while contributing at least close to equally.
This level of teamwork and skill is admirable... and also broken.
Is this trolling?
I haven't used the DPS channels to group up in over a year, simply because I like pugging and building my ships to try to survive the pug. lol
But, his point stands. When a pug does come together right, Scimitar,Recluse, etc. Suddenly yeah I'm doing 10-20k more then normally. Normally I do 18-30k with all my toons.
When I get together with a couple friends, same thing. I parse alot higher. Not because I'm piloting any different. One time I have skills, one time I don't or one time I got lucky, yada yada.
There is skill in STO, but the ship is being carried because of the team. Not sure why the bickering back and forth. If it truly is all skill that did it. Then do it with a 5 man team in the same ship. Ditch the scimitars, Recluse, etc.
I didn't bother to watch the video, no time right now and I took the post as a joke. But, not a joke on the difficulty of the game needing to be rebalanced simply because someone can be carried by the team.
Maybe, maybe not, just a wonder/suggestion for testing!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
- This vid leaves little doubt as to how the high DPS numbers are reached (debuffs by others , not the pilot's own accomplishment) , which in turn leads to a fake / unrealistic scenario , which in turn leads to fake numbers .
Sort of like running an experiment where the situation is rigged to see if a specific result can be achieved . The 40K Galaxy run showed that if you don't kill things fast enough in your fake setup , your teammates die left and right (see toward the end) -- which to me looks like a noob setup , not a real one .
- As to that I mean by the "fake pilot" remark ... , well Ryan has made multiple comments in the defense of the "DPS channels" that he has no interest in carrying "scrubs" and / or a team .
Guess who's being carried here Ryan ... you are !
Congrats for the "achievement" ... , I certainly enjoyed the irony ...
Can we call you "scrub" now ?
... so keep producing these shows ... , but they're just as real as "reality TV" is ... -- which in turn shows who the fans of that "genre" are here ... .
Welcome to the discussion captain butthurt
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
Agreed and the true heart of the problem STO balance has always had. Teamwork is OP, or 5x anything gets stupid strong fast. I don't mean the teamwork is OP in a positive way either rather that if your team brings the right stuff it will excel.
Scimitar DPS is not as impressive without APB Recluse support. Unless of course your team utilizes the Jem Hadar two piece set for attack pattern gamma buffing and expose? vulnerability debuffing I suppose.
This is not meant as an insult to the capabilities of the DPS teams. Although you would likely get a bit less flak if you stopped misrepresenting things and dialed back the ego a touch.
I will reiterate, organized teamwork is OP here. It really puts a dampener on disorganized play that organized effort can allow someone to do those kinds of numbers.
Counterpoint: If optimal play is established through teamwork, you have greater incentive to meet, socialize with, and get to know other players. You need to be conscious of their play style, their build, how your build interacts with their build, and so on, and so forth...
I mean, skill absolutely should be a factor. Games, in general, should reward greater skill. And I think MMOs in particular should encourage and reward socialization and team building (which arguably requires even greater knowledge and skill than if you were to just optimize your own individual build without considering how it might interact with and against others), because otherwise, why not just play an offline/single-player game?
It really is a shame that this applies in this thread too. A player literally does the STO impossible - takes an NX and out-DPSes pretty much 99% of players in STO - and all the forumites can think to do is disparage it.
You think you have it bad, 5k over here my friend. And proud of it! :P
Is the build of that NX available to view anywhere perchance? Probably just as easy to write it up I guess...not much to write...
There is a point where he brings up what the ship is equipped with while repairing damage, and to equip a torp which had unequipped, but for me youtube graphic glitches make it blur so badly I can only tell one or two items out.
Three torpedoes.
LOL
P.S. im quitting to reopen my battlestar galactica online account. the music has inspired my to reclaim my viper jock status LOLOL :cool::P:):)
Yet for some reason that random scimitar in the first video did less damage than he did. I guess the debuffs didn't apply to his weapons. :rolleyes:
It could be possible that they ran low weapons power and lower Mk items to greatly lower thei damage output. There are plenty of ways to lower your damage and still contribute to the team.
LOL, in b4 CBS calls Cease + Desist on Ryan^^
ELITE STF SPEED RECORDS (time on optional remaining):
S07: KASE: 12:54 | CSE: 13:20 | ISE: 12:38 All held personally, my POV
LOR: KASE: 13:19 | CSE: 13:47 | ISE: 13:34 None held personally, other player's POV
S08: coming soon
I am curious about the percentage added to your DPS because of team play.
the first two runs shown took place in the random Queue, premade of 4, +1
The Recluse and the Jem'dread both benefitted (equal to me) of our OP beta stacking.
The last run was a fullpremade (as said in video's description) to test how far we could take it:
base (or sometimes reffered to as raw) DPS of the last run was 17070 DPS, that is not including any damageincreases by debuffed resistances. No Betas, FOMM etc.
On one post someone calls me out for using Omega3 over Beta3, because it apparently isnt good teamplay. On all the Damage runs its Beta3 being OP and not allowed to use. (The 101k run had a base DPS of 57k something, how many people do that even WITH betas?)
We also may not use Beams, Crit Chance, Crit Damage, universal consoles and so on and so on.
Or how about, we just try to optimize within the system and see how far we can go? I wonder why people think that I am not aware of the betas being used, personally I dont like how the balancing in this game currently is, but it is how it is. And I am neither going to ignore it, because I have to insist on my "playstyle", nor will discuss on these forums how things should be different, because there is really nothing that could be achieved with 25 people ready to jump at you, regardless of what you propose.
Try to see this as the comical video that it is.
As such it is pretty awesome. It's just not being portrayed as such a thing very well due to the nature of forums. If you tossed some Voice Over description on the actual vid, where you mention this is about 'how far a team can help enable an NX to deal such DPS' that might help.
Good evening Captains,
ISA DPS challenge: Only use an NX-Class Ship and see if you can beat a player on the random Queue on DPS.
First run:
Race against a player in a Recluse and see if I can stay ahead of him on DPS, funny conversation ensued.
Second run:
A Jem'Hadar Dreadnough, actually decently built, close match.
Third run:
We actually wanted to see what the ship could do, after getting more used to flying it like that, this is now a real premade group.
I blame it all on my dying. Watch out for the fireworks
Obviously for comical multi-purpose missions.
Thanks to everyone involved
Thanks for watching!