Pistols? (another reason to hate me)

meldrithpw

can anyone even explain WHY there are pistols in this game?

nobody uses them once they realize that they can get far better damage output from other weapons, except for the rare person that slots them specifically for the esthetic (costume) value.

Here's where I make the nerf suggestion that will make everyone hate me more--but please, consider my rationale before the outpouring of outrage.

I can think of only 2 possible reasons to keep pistols.

1) certain maps prohibit the use of larger weapons--wait, what do you mean I can't bring my Bazooka into the bar?

2) (this is the one everyone hates) class limitations to specific weapons. sci limited to pistol, tac any, and eng to mid damage weapons.

yes, I know a lot of people get a kick that the doctor on their away team is running around with a minigun, but thematically it's a fail. (and yes, my sci alts currently use large caliber weapons that I'd need to rethink should this be instituted, but really, I could work with it if I wasn't the only sci not carrying a heavy weapon.)

and really, even although technology tends towards increasing ease of use, weapons, like scalpels, are class specific tools.

to balance the limitation, perhaps we could see new weapons that can ONLY be used by eng or sci, like nelen exile's fancy pistol (please give me the upgrade option on that baby.)

anazonda

Nobody hates you... That's just a silly assumption.

You just have ideas, that generally do not contribute productively to STO, and you are well within your right to do so... I mean... We have T-Rexes with Lasers on their heads... Dosen't get less productive than that.

robert359

I like my pistols, advance fleet dual phaser MK XIV. They put out good DPS. Went through most of the game with ether a pair of dual phasers or dual disroptors.

bierstein

TBH compression pistols are insanely good from what I can tell, just not insanely popular due to their range. By not insanely popular I mean I had the same concern as you when looking through weapons and REALLY liking the stats on compression pistols. So I felt out zone chat on ESD and found out that while I don't often see people using them no one there had any issues with them and several actually started showing off their compression pistols in the chat box.

Following that it alleviated my concerns I got one and found out that it puts my split beam to shame as long as I use it on the appropriate maps (not bug hunt for example). Compression pistols for CQC is not a buy I regret making.

Edit@below cause forum timer...

lowy1 wrote: »

My Science CPT would disagree with you with his Type 2 Phaser as my Eng CPT with her Elachi Pistol. The reason people don't use pistols is because none are a part of a set bonus. They offer comparable damage, they just can't compete with set bonuses.

I do like my minigun on my tac main, but you need either a pulsewave or a sniper rifle for Borg if you don't want to remodulate every 3 seconds and you would be an idiot otherwise to not use them or melee even.

TBH I was thinking of getting the Jem'Hadar minigun for bug hunt (I'm tac) I think it'd actually be really effective there where before bug hunt existed it had nowhere to shine.

lowy1

My Science CPT would disagree with you with his Type 2 Phaser as my Eng CPT with her Elachi Pistol. The reason people don't use pistols is because none are a part of a set bonus. They offer comparable damage, they just can't compete with set bonuses.

I do like my minigun on my tac main, but you need either a pulsewave or a sniper rifle for Borg if you don't want to remodulate every 3 seconds and you would be an idiot otherwise to not use them or melee even.

tigeraries

previously I try to use assault rifles or mini guns for BOFs... now I also use pistols.

range may not be as good but the fast rate of fire is nice compared to other larger weapons.

expose on weapons for BOFs while I use exploit... or I swap that around.

personally I am liking pistols more and more due to the fact I can spam the primary attack and keep a constant rate of fire... tack on a chance for knockback. As long as the 2ndary attack is AE Cone...

sniper, blast & high density... I think suck due to the primary rate of fire being slow.

pulsewaves are tricky... bad on BOFs due to their AI being TRIBBLE... you really need to be up close to get the best DPS on em.

noroblad

pistols fire faster than the rest. There are times when this is useful, and there are times when my finger hurts just thinking about it. But a good pistol is worth having on occasion. I mean, you can argue about several weapons being weaker -- the 1/2 damage aoe knockback weapon is not doing much damage either. Sniper rifles are horrible dps. Multiple guns have a one sided issue of either the primary or secondary being great but the other one being poor. I am using a bio-bomb box rifle that has a weak primary and an amazing secondary; I need to get a strong primary gun and swap between them if I start doing ground seriously, which I may to get upgrade things.

ironmako

The pistol tends to be for the more aggressive person as they are shorter range than other weapons.

Saying that, I do keep my MK XIII Vaadwaur pistol handy as it is short range, but its also a pulsewave, so I can hit more than one enemy with each shot and the damage on the secondary can strip the HP off the average unshielded enemy, usually resulting in insta-mortality if you get a flanking crit.

warmaker001b

To make this thread OP, shows you haven't tried the varied weapons out, varied captain classes, and different forms of fighting. There are some generalities that trend between the different weapon types:

Sniper Rifles
- Long ranges regardless of firing mode; Secondary Shot is longest in game.
- Good for Single Targets only.
- High damage Secondary Shot with a somewhat lengthy cooldown.
- Very long Secondary Shot chargeup, to include the character movement being heavily restricted.

"Medium" Rifles
- Includes High Density Beam, Split Beam, Full Auto Rifles
- Flexible usage weapons and some of the popular choices are found here.
- Pretty decent Secondary Shot strength and cooldowns.
- Shorter range than Sniper Rifles regardless of firing modes.
- In short, these weapons are a safe, all-around type of choice.

Pulsewaves
- Short range use only.
- More damage the shorter the range, but damage drops a lot the further the target is.
- AOE attack in either firing modes; Great in maps where you get swarmed, i.e. Bug Hunt.
- Another very popular choice.

Miniguns & Charged Blast Assault
- Average ranges.
- Charged blast can be devastating if utilized right to land high damage AOE blast.
- Miniguns for low damage cone attacks, last longer than Full Auto Rifles' similar attack.
- Long Chargeup animations in either firing mode (regular fire or secondary fire), which is very annoying, IMHO.

Pistols
- Short range weapons: Cone Attacks (i.e. Wide Beam, Dual Pistols) or Single Target Focus (i.e. Compression Pistol)
- If you contrast their damage values, they are, on average respectably high.
- Shortest Secondary Fire cooldowns. Very good in laying down lots of fire in close range.
- Secondary Fire animations are very short, to the point, and slow you down so little that you barely notice it happening.
- The high damage and short secondary fire cooldowns is a significant advantage if you are one to play at close ranges and move a lot.

Stun Pistols
- I'll be honest... I find nothing alluring with Stun Pistols. They were when STO was new.

Honestly, most of the weapons have great uses for a particular playstyle. I've used them all and most of them I like, depending on how my character is going to fight. Of them all, only 2 things I have issue with:
- Minigun / Charged Blast Assault have long chargeup animations to include even normal fire.
- Long CD of Sniper Shot as well as very long chargeup animations.

shadowfirefly00

warmaker001b wrote: »

Honestly, most of the weapons have great uses for a particular playstyle. I've used them all and most of them I like, depending on how my character is going to fight.

Exactly; there's an appropriate tool at hand for most any situation or mood (and your list, as it is intended as an overview, understandably does not touch upon the varying procs that come with the various energy types, or the many entries in the special weapon roster (i.e. CRM 200)). Obviously, the relatively low ROF of the sniper and HD rifles is less of an issue if your team is backing you up with fast-firing weapons... and if the hail of fire happens to expose one of the tangos? Alt-fire says hi (and, often, goodbye).

That said, it's been fun mucking about the DIZ with a stun pistol (tetryon) and a sword. Tidbit: while the damage bonus from fine-aim mode (X) only applies to ranged weapons, the crit chance bonus you get with it if you sank points into Headshot is not so restricted. Just adjust the view distance a bit so you can keep situational awareness.

stonewbie

It would be nice to see more weapon varieties added in. Maybe make them loosely based off of IRL weapons.

1) underbarrel grenade launcher - pretty common for IRL small arms to have it. STO version could have a primary fire mode that is like high density normal single beam attack and a secondary fire mode that shoots a projectile that does aoe kinetic splash damage.

2) "master key" underbarrel shotgun - not as common as the grenade launcher. It's basically a shotgun that is fitted underneath an M16/M4 rifle. If you guys watch the original Predator movie from the 80's with Arnold Schwarzenegger one of the guys on his team has it. The guy named "Billy" is the one that uses it, the Native American/Tracker dude. STO version could have a primary fire mode that is like the full auto shooting and the secondary fire can be like a modified pulsewave. Maybe make it like a single target pulsewave knockdown type thing. Bonus points if the devs can make it open up locked doors :P

3) double pistols - you look so badass aiming with these things that i want them changed just so they are competitive with rifles lol.

adverbero

I'll raise my hand as one the people you mentioned using a pistol for an aesthetic reason, I don't particularly like wandering around with what appears to be Industrial Machine equipment on my Back, well to be honest all the back mounted weapons look silly to me with a few exceptions

But while I like using the pistol, I'm not too sure about placing any restrictions on them, even though I would prefer social zones to have fewer giant energy weapons in them, I think any forced restrictions would probably irritate more players than are currently irritated by over sized weapons on show

noxtereg

I love my +80 Crit Severity Pistol.

locutusofcactus

I just use the 3 piece ground sets. I have them all and that's what my boffs get. I would love to have seen a pistol in one of the ground sets but despite my input in these forums about having a pistol in the last few reputation ground sets, we keep getting rifles.

ironmako

adverbero wrote: »

I'll raise my hand as one the people you mentioned using a pistol for an aesthetic reason, I don't particularly like wandering around with what appears to be Industrial Machine equipment on my Back, well to be honest all the back mounted weapons look silly to me with a few exceptions

But while I like using the pistol, I'm not too sure about placing any restrictions on them, even though I would prefer social zones to have fewer giant energy weapons in them, I think any forced restrictions would probably irritate more players than are currently irritated by over sized weapons on show

Totally agree with you. I can't see (in any universe) someone happily sprinting with a Minigun strapped to their back!

I have a Whip normally holstered but I do tend to use that, so it's not just for asthetics, but that is partly the reason.

Speaking of guns slung on the back, the huge cannons look ridiculous, but STO have messed up the Vaadwaur pistol by having that slung on the back as well, rather than hip-holstered. Having something tiny on the back looks just as daft as having something massive IMO.

hypl

You must be using them wrong. I kill everything much faster with pistols or pulsewaves. Pulsewaves are still king. While people struggle to kill enemies with their fancy bazookas and assault rifles, my dinky little stun pistol is out-damaging everyone. :P

jonathanlonehawk

meldrithpw wrote: »

yes, I know a lot of people get a kick that the doctor on their away team is running around with a minigun, but thematically it's a fail. (and yes, my sci alts currently use large caliber weapons that I'd need to rethink should this be instituted, but really, I could work with it if I wasn't the only sci not carrying a heavy weapon.)

Thematically we should not be carrying anything OTHER than "pistols". They only broke out rifles in Star Trek for the really big threats, and then only ONCE in TOS.

Besides I'll put my upgraded Type 1 Phaser against any weapon in the game at this point.

grayfoxjames

What the heck? I love my Mk XIV Elite Fleet Ultra Rare Phaser Dual pistols. They do quick damage, especially that secondary Fire to multiple targets. Sure one shot with them doesn't do as much as a rifle but in the time you get off one rifle shot I'll get off five on my dualies...plus they look awesome on my gun slingin' hips!

leviathan99

Pistols seem like fun.

The big problem is the tripwires, remodulation mechanics, and emphasis on sniping in ground STFs. These were poorly thought out content developments IMHO because they rewarded people for only carrying sniper rifles.

As such, people only carry sniper rifles and long distance weapons.

Traits/kits/DOffing resurrected melee as a side option.

The approach of requiring sniper rifles in STFs might have balanced out had there been a downside to using them elsewhere. But since there are situations where a sniper rifle is superior and none where it is inferior, the other weapons got rendered redundant in the minds of many players.

If Cryptic redesigned Borg remodulation and ground STF optionals, I think more weapon diversity would be competitive.

Personally, I think ground STFs should be split up into more bite-sized chunks. Not necessarily the way they were before when STFs were split up, mind you.

I think the way optionals should work is this:

Infected: Ground. You fight through Captain Ogen. Three players select the consoles and a vote comes up whether to continue to fight Manus. If the team votes no, they immediately get standard rewards and the map boots them out like any STF that's been completed. If they vote yes, they can continue on to fight Manus for the optional. No timer. No "save X assimilated crewmen." The optional is completing the second half.

I'd probably look at something similar with Cure and Khitomer Accord although this would mean inserting new boss fights at roughly the halfway point.

stonewbie

stoleviathan99 wrote: »

If Cryptic redesigned Borg remodulation and ground STF optionals, I think more weapon diversity would be competitive.

A long time ago i had made a suggestion that would make all weapons equal when it comes to remodulation.

AFAIK borg adaptation is per shot not per activation. Which is why a pulsewave that shoots x1 for 300 damage is preferred to a full auto or minigun that shoots x5 or x10 at 24 damage each shot. If that is correct then what i had suggested before was that adaptation was based off of number of activations. If for example it takes 5 activations from a pulsewave until borg adapt then that means it should also take 5 activations from a minigun or 5 activations from a full auto, or 5 from a sniper rifle. By activation i mean pressing the attack key for the primary or secondary attack.

leviathan99

stonewbie wrote: »

A long time ago i had made a suggestion that would make all weapons equal when it comes to remodulation.

AFAIK borg adaptation is per shot not per activation. Which is why a pulsewave that shoots x1 for 300 damage is preferred to a full auto or minigun that shoots x5 or x10 at 24 damage each shot. If that is correct then what i had suggested before was that adaptation was based off of number of activations. If for example it takes 5 activations from a pulsewave until borg adapt then that means it should also take 5 activations from a minigun or 5 activations from a full auto, or 5 from a sniper rifle. By activation i mean pressing the attack key for the primary or secondary attack.

Maybe. Really, I think remodulation is largely just an annoying mechanic as it's setup. I'd be all for just scrapping it and reimagining it.

Just every 5 regular shots or one special attack, you get auto-silenced for one second and do a quick remod animation, handled as a debuff rather than gear you have to equip.

Have the crafted remodulators all get turned in for Omega Marks. The trait would simply provide immunity to the debuff.

pennylong

I love my pistols, especially the Vaadwaur one and the type one phaser.

szerontzur

The Elachi Pistol is quite good once upgraded (and comboed with Electro-Gravitic Field).

The main problem with most of the pistols is their limited range - where the pulsewave excels.

janus1975

I tend to go for a mix of weapons on my toons, and it depends on what works. For example, for the Klingon it tends to be a bolt rifle or compression pistols on closing in, swapping to melee. For a bunkering Feddie, it's primarily the sniper phaser rifle. For a tactical Feddie that uses sweeping strikes, it's the Phaser pistol. Generally I've found pistols work better close-quarters, sniper rifles for distance. Stun pistols or single beam for Borg to avoid them quickly adapting. Basic lesson: whatever works for that toon and that enemy at that point in time.

shadowfirefly00

stonewbie wrote: »

It would be nice to see more weapon varieties added in. Maybe make them loosely based off of IRL weapons...

Underbarrel weapons? Yes please; I imagine that, in terms of coding, it's not that far a leap given what they've done with ships and consoles (and now kits and modules). To follow on from an earlier post of mine on the topic: longarms could have a single 'mod slot' specifically for mated weapons. Note that this does not replace the alt-fire mode (contrast with the Adapted MACO and Klingon Honor Guard PWAs); intead, it adds a second one with its own cooldown which has to be slotted into the action bar separately (or maybe it pops up in a special action bar, much like the science vessels' analysis ability).

And said mated weapons, of course, come in a good variety (for launchers alone you have photon, plasma, smoke, and anesthazine at least)... some of which would be sensibly found in the various rep stores (for example, static - AKA EMP - grenades from TFO).

farmallm

I still use pistols either on my character or some BOFFs. As they come in handy. Usually my character carries the Compression pistol. That puts out very nice DPS. Also I might use the double pistols as well. Those are fun and put out good DPS. Only time I use pistols on my BOFFs is the stun. Where they stun a NPC for a few seconds. Those do come in handy when you have large groups to take care of.

Lastly if you managed to grab one before the Dil store shut down. The Plasma repeater is just epic. My Romulan uses one of those. It just melts the health away.

Also for RP, I usually pack a rifle and pistol. Since in real life you would kinda go into battle like that. Rifle for main use and pistol for back up.

betayuya

A baseline damage increase might make them more useful in single target situations, but as it sits, it's always bee questionable weather to use them at all anymore, like 2 buffs and i can hit a 2,000+ AOE for like 10-15 seconds, seriously, so uh, damage increase might make them worth it, lol

stonewbie

shadowfirefly00 wrote: »

Underbarrel weapons? Yes please; I imagine that, in terms of coding, it's not that far a leap given what they've done with ships and consoles (and now kits and modules). To follow on from an earlier post of mine on the topic: longarms could have a single 'mod slot' specifically for mated weapons. Note that this does not replace the alt-fire mode (contrast with the Adapted MACO and Klingon Honor Guard PWAs); intead, it adds a second one with its own cooldown which has to be slotted into the action bar separately (or maybe it pops up in a special action bar, much like the science vessels' analysis ability).

And said mated weapons, of course, come in a good variety (for launchers alone you have photon, plasma, smoke, and anesthazine at least)... some of which would be sensibly found in the various rep stores (for example, static - AKA EMP - grenades from TFO).

Well i wasnt really thinking about something completely different. I was thinking that just a unique 3d model that has the appearance of a 2-in-1 style weapon and the same primary/secondary firing setup we have now. Maybe even using the same system that the Dyson experimental rifle uses where the secondary switches depending on whether your target has an expose or not.

The weapons i had in mind would look something like this if it were designed like the Dyson rifle:

rifle with underbarrel grenade launcher
-primary firing mode (expose): single beam shot
-secondary firing mode (expose): triple burst beam shot
-secondary firing mode (exploit): launch kinetic grenade (aoe attack)

rifle with underbarrel pulsewave
-primary firing mode (expose): single beam shot
-secondary firing mode (expose): triple burst beam shot
-secondary firing mode (exploit): activate single target pulsewave/knockdown attack

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westx211

I find the relativity stasis pistol to be very powerful albeit its secondary fire mode isnt always useful. same with teh elachi super pistol although that ones secondary fire mode is good.

welcome2earf

Ground Pounder here!!!!

For in-close fighting with energy weapons, nothing...NOTHING beats a Pulsewave Assault Rifle for pure spike, crowd control (via kickback) and exposes. The key is to have a secondary exploit weapon at the ready. Sadly, MOST explot weps have warm-up animations....except split-beam weapons. Get them.

Very Best:
Pulsewave
Full Auto Rifle
Dual Pistols


Very Worst:
Wide Beam Pistol
Stun Pistol
Blast Assault Rifle

(My opinion, of course)