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Digitigrade legs, paws, claws and hooves for cats, pigs and aliens.

angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
edited December 2014 in The Art of Star Trek Online
Yeah, I think it's time again to bring this topic up.

One of the advantages of animated science fiction like STO over live action plays is that we are able to finally show some of the alien species in all their "alien" glory as they were intented. TAS showed us a vast number of aliens that also left the realm of classic humanoids a few times. While non-humanoid playable aliens probably mean a lot of trouble (I get that), I'd very much like to see more "alien" parts on our... "aliens" :D

Especially those races that are in some way inspired by "beasts" heavily lack certain prominent features they were shown to have in canon. for instance, the catlike people (Caitian and (in STO) Ferasans) were canonically shown to feature digitigrade ("beastlike") legs and paws (TAS - One Upon A Planet, TAS - The Slaver Weapon. TAS even explicitly mentiones that caitians will frequently prefer to walk barefeet (barepaws?). At least this is a costume option we don't have in-game.

Tellarites are, contrary to what is suggested in STO, not meant to be "space dwarves", they are actually rather meant to be "space pigs". TOS showed them having hoof-like claws with three digits TOS - Makeup Test. Some (non-canon and frankly controversial) material suggest that they also have hooved feet and digitigrade legs, though most of these non-canon information were later contradicted by on-screen canon.

However, digigrade legs, hooves, claws and paws would be great additions to at least the alien creator.
lFC4bt2.gif
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Post edited by Unknown User on

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    mewmaster101mewmaster101 Member Posts: 1,239 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    In regards to the TAS thing about the Caitians, the VERY few caitian we see in a live action scene are not digirade, and there are several things in TAS, that are never mentioned or used again (example is the life support belt).

    As you mention, the things mentioning the more pig like features have, AT BEST, been completely ignored. Thus that becomes irrelevant.

    The main problem is animations/common sense (pig feet cannot hold anything), as well as tradition. Star trek is famous for its, basically tradition, at this point to have aliens who are humans with some slight changes, it is simply something that has evolved from it.
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    bberge1701bberge1701 Member Posts: 726 Bug Hunter
    edited October 2014
    Unfortunately, digitigrade legs would require the development team to come up with a new "skeleton", and a host of animations to match. Lots of time and money to make, so I wouldn't expect to see it anytime soon.
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    angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    In regards to the TAS thing about the Caitians, the VERY few caitian we see in a live action scene are not digirade, and there are several things in TAS, that are never mentioned or used again (example is the life support belt).

    The Caitians in particular do, however, originate in TAS. If anything would be modeled fter them this should be the primary reference. All "Caitians" we ever see in live-action we do not see below their chest, so we don't know how their legs would have looked (And JJ-Trek's catgirls don't count for legal and in-universe reasons. We also don't have JJ "Blingons", so ;) ).

    While it is true that many things in TAS aren't mentioned again, the live action series following do feature intentional references and as of 2006 TAS has been made official canon. So everything tht is in there has to be considered.
    As you mention, the things mentioning the more pig like features have, AT BEST, been completely ignored. Thus that becomes irrelevant.

    Regrding the "Medical Guide" stuff, yeah that's right. I don't consider it canonical in the slightest. But it is also TOS canon that Tellarites feature three digit hands with hoof walls and are not necessarily smaller than humans. The "Dwarf" visuals came with ENT - I do think a combination of both styles would work well, though that's only my opinion.
    The main problem is animations/common sense (pig feet cannot hold anything), as well as tradition. Star trek is famous for its, basically tradition, at this point to have aliens who are humans with some slight changes, it is simply something that has evolved from it.

    If course this is hypothetical, but unguligrade feet could very well support a lot. In fact, pigs feet are build for that very purpose. For their hands, a three digit hand could probably operte everything as well - at least I could suspend any disbelief I would have enough for more unique visuals :)

    Nobody says rubberhead aliens should go, but with TAS as a reference I think we should use the possiblities digital media offer better and allow for more alien variants. The bigger problem would probably be this:
    bberge1701 wrote:
    Unfortunately, digitigrade legs would require the development team to come up with a new "skeleton", and a host of animations to match. Lots of time and money to make, so I wouldn't expect to see it anytime soon.

    I am well aware of that. I am also aware that in almost five years clipping issues in costumes have never been resolved, Klingons never got new costumes. Under these circumstances I wouldn't hope for them to introduce extensive customization options like that.But I like to voice the request/suggestion now and again, just to keep it on the table :)
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
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    rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,143 Community Moderator
    edited October 2014
    Tellarites were seen again in Enterprise, and its possible that they used the Enterprise Tellarites as a reference. I mean... in TOS Andorians didn't have visible ears and larger antennae, yet for the most part all Andorians in STO are the Enterprise variants.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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    ashkrik23ashkrik23 Member Posts: 10,809 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    They don't even have to conform shoes to the digitgrade. They can just make it bare feet as an option. I would take that just to have an actual caitian form the TAS.
    King of Lions rawr! Protect the wildlife of the world. Check out my foundry series Perfection and Scars of the Pride. arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1138650/ashkrik23s-foundry-missions
    ashkrik_by_lindale_ff-d65zc3i.png
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    angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Tellarites were seen again in Enterprise, and its possible that they used the Enterprise Tellarites as a reference. I mean... in TOS Andorians didn't have visible ears and larger antennae, yet for the most part all Andorians in STO are the Enterprise variants.

    It's not only possible, it's exactly what they did. They went with the ENT interpretation of anything since it's more likely that younger players know these visuals, but I personally don't like it. TOS races have basically been removed from the game (can't have a TOS Gorn either) and Tellarites were not dwarves but the same size as humans. Though making them a bis shorter and sturdier is not a bad thing, but I mourn that they gave them human hands and I wouldn't mind them being unguligrade, but hey, it could be worse. But maybe the alien creator could get some hooved options at one point.
    ashkrik23 wrote: »
    They don't even have to conform shoes to the digitgrade. They can just make it bare feet as an option. I would take that just to have an actual caitian form the TAS.

    I support this wholeheartedly.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
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    greendragon527greendragon527 Member Posts: 386 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    My Ferasan uses the Voth armour for this reason, simply because it gives a bit of the appearance of feline legs.
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    tpalelenatpalelena Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Can the claws be crab claws? Whooop whoop whooop whooop!
    Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
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    ashkrik23ashkrik23 Member Posts: 10,809 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Why would you need crab claws:confused:
    King of Lions rawr! Protect the wildlife of the world. Check out my foundry series Perfection and Scars of the Pride. arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1138650/ashkrik23s-foundry-missions
    ashkrik_by_lindale_ff-d65zc3i.png
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    rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    The same reason why you could need digitigrade legs, paws, and claws
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    ashkrik23ashkrik23 Member Posts: 10,809 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    We don't have crab people in this game though?
    King of Lions rawr! Protect the wildlife of the world. Check out my foundry series Perfection and Scars of the Pride. arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1138650/ashkrik23s-foundry-missions
    ashkrik_by_lindale_ff-d65zc3i.png
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    rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    We have enough parts to start making crab people, I think we should have more parts.
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    ashkrik23ashkrik23 Member Posts: 10,809 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Way less chances of something as unique as crab claws on a humanoid character.
    King of Lions rawr! Protect the wildlife of the world. Check out my foundry series Perfection and Scars of the Pride. arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1138650/ashkrik23s-foundry-missions
    ashkrik_by_lindale_ff-d65zc3i.png
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    rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    But paws, claws, and hooves are just peachy.

    Stay classy, Scar.
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    ashkrik23ashkrik23 Member Posts: 10,809 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    We're talking about feet there, though. You're talking about hands. That's a whole different scenario.


    Hooves are also more unlikely IMO.
    King of Lions rawr! Protect the wildlife of the world. Check out my foundry series Perfection and Scars of the Pride. arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1138650/ashkrik23s-foundry-missions
    ashkrik_by_lindale_ff-d65zc3i.png
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    somebobsomebob Member Posts: 556 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Well apparently it happened without warning and without any way to change it back.

    My female Caitian is now standing on her toes when barefoot, and completely flat-footed when in any kind of shoes.

    Change it back, Cryptic, as it looks stupid at best on their tiny feet (that can't get any bigger). Or give us the option to turn it off.

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/prdmb3vusnnqg4l/screenshot_2014-10-30-10-12-12.jpg?dl=0
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    ashkrik23ashkrik23 Member Posts: 10,809 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Well, seems like the starting point for "digitgradeish" feet.

    It's more pronounced on females.
    King of Lions rawr! Protect the wildlife of the world. Check out my foundry series Perfection and Scars of the Pride. arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1138650/ashkrik23s-foundry-missions
    ashkrik_by_lindale_ff-d65zc3i.png
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    csilverstreakcsilverstreak Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    somebob wrote: »
    Well apparently it happened without warning and without any way to change it back.

    My female Caitian is now standing on her toes when barefoot, and completely flat-footed when in any kind of shoes.

    Change it back, Cryptic, as it looks stupid at best on their tiny feet (that can't get any bigger). Or give us the option to turn it off.

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/prdmb3vusnnqg4l/screenshot_2014-10-30-10-12-12.jpg?dl=0
    Those don't actually look half bad to me. How did you get those bare feet on your Caitian? Are they part of one of the Risian outfits or something? I can't find them anywhere on my Caitian female.
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    ashkrik23ashkrik23 Member Posts: 10,809 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Those don't actually look half bad to me. How did you get those bare feet on your Caitian? Are they part of one of the Risian outfits or something? I can't find them anywhere on my Caitian female.

    To use bare feet, you must use the beachcomber or any of the Risian swimsuits. I suggest using beachcomber, that way you can have paws wherever you want.

    Swimsuits work on Risa only.
    King of Lions rawr! Protect the wildlife of the world. Check out my foundry series Perfection and Scars of the Pride. arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1138650/ashkrik23s-foundry-missions
    ashkrik_by_lindale_ff-d65zc3i.png
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    csilverstreakcsilverstreak Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Ah, thanks. I had a feeling it was Beachcomber. Have to get some more favors and unlock that one!
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    heckgoblinheckgoblin Member Posts: 685
    edited December 2014
    I too demand crab claws.

    Crab claws for all species!
    I AM WAR.
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