namreef there's a lot of insight from a relatively naive viewpoint in your post (note naivety isn't a bad thing ).
There's a hint of persnickety and condescension in this statement, primarily the inclusion of a wink and mitigating the fact that you're calling me naive. However, I'll continue reading your opinions of my opinions because I'm not easily offended.
Firstly what they have done with the expansion seems to some to be incredibly subtle, to those who have a good working knowledge of game mechanics and maths it's a club to the face.
This is insinuating that I am incapable of "maths" calculations and assuming that I don't have a knowledge of game mechanics or that I am just some Zen Store Zombie willing to spend all my cash in microtransactions no matter what the price. Regardless, it's inflammatory and personal, so let's move on...
When you reduce the rewards for a scenario in an MMO, people will get annoyed, it's just simple social reaction to having something taken away that has been a constant for a long time. However combine that with a increase in time to get a lower reward for an action and it snowballs the Time part of the Time vs Reward ratio. Up to the point where earning the 480 Dil from an Advanced Queue takes upwards of 4x the time for half the reward, effectively making it take 16x as long for the old reward of 960 Dil for the same action prior to DR.
I'm a social scientist, so I understand "simple social reactions" in addition to judgments and decision making. There is not only in-game and real life economies that the developers need be concerned with, but psychological perceptions of utility and value of the games players as well. I understand the Time vs Reward ratio and delayed gratification vs frustration. As I stated, and have thought so since the Rep System was implemented, I think that we do need to have an increase in dilithium rewards, more ways to earn it (i.e., FE/mission rewards, patrols, exploration, etc.), or both. (As a player interested in immersion, it actually annoys me that dilithium is a currency in the first place.) My personal play style is to have one main toon and alts which I primarily use to experience the content from a different perspective or the different factions' story lines. This largely influences my opinion on the pace of leveling and earning rewards.
The pricing of 500 Zen per ship tier is also up the creek. Mainly because it doesn't equate to the power of the ship or the potential reward of the ship itself. During Ship sale weekends you can get the full Scimitar set for 4000 Zen, arguably the most powerful ship in the game for ~$40, or just the Scimitar variant for 2000 zen or ~$20. The issue with a fixed pricing mechanic like that is that it results in items (consoles) and ships that are overpriced, or even downright terrible in some cases when compared to other ships ingame whether purchasable or otherwise.
I also understand Zen store pricing and how price doesn't equal power. It seems that is the crux of your argument here. The problem with this is that these are pre-DR expansion prices in the context of a ship sale weekend - that's a small window of sale time to compare to the typical value in this new expansion era of STO. The "potential reward" to which you prefer is problematic as well because the definition of "potential reward" will vary per player. There could be rewards based on metrics or just intangible player satisfaction. I purchased the T6 Phantom because I wanted to experience the new content with a new vessel and explore it's mechanics. I base all of my Zen store purchases on several factors: short-/long-term enjoyment, current expendable funds, comparable value, etc. I do not purchase items that do not make it through my decision tree.
Similarly some of the services and boosters are massively overpriced for the ingame result. Ironically they would make far more money if they just re-evaluated pricing vs reward on all their products. If there's an Epic grade skin fair enough give it a bit of a premium, but not to the point it makes it impossible for people to consider affording.
I agree. This is why I don't purchase many of the services and boosters, whether fleet or dilithium store. I'd like to respec him but I won't anytime soon because I'd rather spend the dilithium on other things. One example of this is an EV suit which, for goodness sake, I cannot determine why it's valued at over 100,000 dilithium. Maybe it's an oversight, but it speaks to either inattention to in-game pricing or too small a work force and prioritization.
On the subject of the exploit, the EP made a lot of mistakes in that public announcement. First up was the 17x fact. If he can post the proof of it, then fine, until then it's just a claim and conjecture. This is mainly because we can't comprehend what baseline he's using for the 17x Exp gain. The fastest someone could have been leveling with boosting is around 7x according to EXP gain, but with the bug of using a low level to reduce the health of the enemies it would increase XP gain per minute possibly resulting in the Exp gain mentioned, even then that's a bug easily fixed, no need to go ape **** on everyone for it. Not only is it a bug easily fixed it's a bug they caused, were notified of, and failed to fix prior to release.
He's the EP - I don't know what else to say. They put out information, I'm left to trust the information or not. Clearly, I'm more inclined to trust the information than you are, and that's not for lack of skepticism on my part. I took part in one of the infamous "LFG Japori Elite" sector patrol calls to increase leveling for the next episode. I was under the impression that people were finally willing to team for simple sector patrols to level as a community effort to enjoy it; as it turns out, not quite so much. My experience was good overall, the XP rewards were far exceeding my expectation and didn't feel right, especially considering that I had listened to podcasts where they discussed the intended speed for leveling. So, I didn't do it again, others did. I felt the response was appropriate and clear, although (if it is as far reaching as people claim) a bit heavy handed for those of us who didn't fully take advantage of the most extreme exploits. The good news is, you can keep playing and get your points back even though time was spent doing it once already. But I mean, c'mon - if we keep it 100, not a lot of time was spent leveling, which is the issue. It seems that many are upset because they got called out. Adults aren't too keen on being called out.
The second failure of the EP's claims is that they globally applied a blanket reduction on Exp from people who levelled faster than their metrics. People who didn't venture into TD to use the patrols, or used them to get Rom Marks as per usual were hit. People who levelled in other areas like DS9 and so on got hit. High DPS players who can steam roll any content were hit, all because they didn't target the actual exploiters as per their claims.
Reference previous comment regarding "heavy handedness". It could be that they are expecting those who didn't and received punishment any way to come forward and they fix them that way, otherwise both parties let it go. I don't think that method is in the players' best interest, if that is even how they have decided to handle it.
I've listened to the Dev's on podcasts, I've done a lot of research and played many MMO's and other game types. The balance in game is currently very wrong. The closest you can relate it too now are the very grindy Korean/Chinese MMO's where progression/reward are heavily skewed in the favour of the Publisher, with the player getting very little out of the time spent playing. If the game engine was up to the standards of say Unreal or CryEngine for ground movement and space movement (even with the psuedo 3D movement in space) then it would be different, instead the game feels cheap, the ground combat and space combat both happen in a very short space of time, making ground power activation and duration mostly pointless, whereas Space combat can chain powers to make ships do over 70K DPS compared to a normally played ship doing between 2-5K DPS.
I'd agree that things are more in favor of the Publisher and have made comments about that myself. The game being on a different engine would undoubtedly be better for everyone. However, this is a joint effort so both of the companies catch player wrath even if one party is more at fault than the other. Your comments about the "cheapness" of the game initially seem off topic, but the missing link here is that psychological value I mentioned earlier. If I may, it seems that because the quality of the game does not impress you, the costs imposed on you don't meet the expected value and your impact your anticipatory emotions. This is not unreasonable being that this is how social reactions work; this is also my guess on how you linked those two thoughts.
The imbalances, the engine and the reactions from the Dev's are now conspiring against the players for a meaningful Reward given the Time played. In turn players are less inclined to grind and grind and grind through 600 repeat patrols to reach 60.
I am able to follow the events, peoples' reported experiences, developers reactions and what it means for the community. I do not care for the majority of my gameplay to be rinse and repeat patrols/STFs either.
Oh don't forget that normal mode now gives more EXP vs Time than Elite level does. Elite has a 5x health buff for NPC's, which in turn requires 5x the time to defeat, but only gives 2x the EXP of normal. Whereas pre-Nerfbat they gave 5x the Exp. Which would make that equation correct. The only bug that was present was actually present despite the claims of the EP was the downlevelling bug which capped the enemies at lvl 50 instead of raising them to match the combined average of the group or matching the highest level in the group. Something that is a direct bug from the level matching mechanic and not at all the players fault, especially after reports were filed BEFORE the release of DR.
This definitely seems like a work in progress that should have been attended to more closely, especially when given feedback. Hopefully the tweaks happen quickly and balance can be restored so we can focus our efforts in-game and not in the forums.
I get it, we love the IP and want a game experience to match it. Star Trek fans are passionate people. I think a lot of the disconnect we're experiencing stems from my higher tolerance of the changes because it doesn't impact my playing style as much. Understand that people play this game for a variety of reasons. I know some people who basically don't run any in-game content except for a costume unlock or something because they are primarily here to RP. They aren't familiar with the way a lot of systems work they just love the IP. I know some people who have dozens of toons, have them spec'd out and understand how to play the game effectively enough to stockpile enough dilithium to purchase the LoR and DR packs through the zen:dilithium exchange. Perhaps, should it began to more seriously interfere with my play style, I would be as upset as others.
I think it should be easy to note that we agree on many aspects, even if we come to the same conclusions through different paths. I don't know if this means that we share a certain naivety or if I am not as clueless as you took me to be. Regardless, I'm interested in assimilating the opinions of others to continue to adapt my own.
i don't even know what the hell they are thinking any more. the 300 seconds wait is NOT going to put out flames
Supposedly, this was done due to server stress but no mention as to why this took place. I have a sneaking suspicion that this was just a scapegoat to attempt to reduce the rage on the forums right now.
Looking for more info on Dilithium Rising? Click on the link below:
Supposedly, this was done due to server stress but no mention as to why this took place. I have a sneaking suspicion that this was just a scapegoat to attempt to reduce the rage on the forums right now.
Where did you get the info that this was due to server stress? I haven't even seen so much as an acknowledgement from any Devs that the post timer has been increased, let alone any form of explanation as to why it was increased.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
Where did you get the info that this was due to server stress? I haven't even seen so much as an acknowledgement from any Devs that the post timer has been increased, let alone any form of explanation as to why it was increased.
All I know is, this is damned annoying. What used to take me 5-10 minutes of forum browsing to reply to a few threads now takes me 30-40 minutes because I have to wait 5 minutes between posts.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
I missed the human touch of your video, there were no humans in it. It was just your voice.
The ships are $30 because they are T6, T5 ships are $25, the price of T6 ships was expected. If you want to get upset, get upset that a T5-U C-Store ship costs more than a T6 ship. Let that sink in a moment.
The upgrade price was expected, and most thought they would be 1000 zen.
Patrol missions have existed ingame since the beginning, and were a part of the leveling process.
Most of your points are moot, because money isn't required to obtain items you want. Yes, you have to put in a lot of effort to get the things you want, which is really hard for todays "I want it all, and I want it now" generation. Well if you want it all, and now, then open your wallet.
Cryptic is required to make money in order to survive, kind of required by all businesses. WoW is a sub based game that requires their patrons to pay money for expansions. Cryptic is a F2P company that gives you an expansion's worth of content for free, that finds away to make their profits elsewhere. I can't see how you can fault them there.
I think the only point I can agree with you on is the so called "exploit." They could have approached that differently.
Guys craptic are trying to silence its forum users with the 300 sec TRIBBLE they ignore feed back that they dont like e,g the massive crafting grind. No matter what GEKO said in a podcast i read the feed back my self.
I think they have been told to add more grind to the game by its communist overlords pwe.*
Vote with your wallet dont spend money on this or any other PWE game
Dont care about timers nor specialization points. IMO only critical thing left is XP leveling that was NERFed last week.
Guess will not get fixed and this is the new NORM. Well done MR EP. Hope you get a big chunky bonus at the end of the year...at the cost of the number of players that left dissatisfied with that change.
Together with nerfing SCI skills (3 yrs ago), Tour of the galaxy and now this...well enough said and you enjoy your winnings at the cost of the playerbase.
I don't think the forum rules permit me to say what I think about that.
Interesting.
That's again a time when a technical 'solution' was silently implemented, and only explained or even acknowledged once the whole thing became a crisis (or some level or another).
I missed the human touch of your video, there were no humans in it. It was just your voice.
The ships are $30 because they are T6, T5 ships are $25, the price of T6 ships was expected. If you want to get upset, get upset that a T5-U C-Store ship costs more than a T6 ship. Let that sink in a moment.
The upgrade price was expected, and most thought they would be 1000 zen.
Patrol missions have existed ingame since the beginning, and were a part of the leveling process.
Most of your points are moot, because money isn't required to obtain items you want. Yes, you have to put in a lot of effort to get the things you want, which is really hard for todays "I want it all, and I want it now" generation. Well if you want it all, and now, then open your wallet.
Cryptic is required to make money in order to survive, kind of required by all businesses. WoW is a sub based game that requires their patrons to pay money for expansions. Cryptic is a F2P company that gives you an expansion's worth of content for free, that finds away to make their profits elsewhere. I can't see how you can fault them there.
I think the only point I can agree with you on is the so called "exploit." They could have approached that differently.
The 17 story missions were free thats it.
The cost of one tier 6 ship is nearly the same as most other games like wow's expansion.
Add in the cost of upgrading 1 piece of gear from mk 12 to mk 14 which is about $5 per.
The cost of things like the Operations Pack is truely insane $160 for 9 ships and some trinkets is nearly the price of 3 brand new full priced games.
DR was the biggest money grab to date you can try to defend cryptic all you want but DR was a money grab nothing more.
I missed the human touch of your video, there were no humans in it. It was just your voice.
The ships are $30 because they are T6, T5 ships are $25, the price of T6 ships was expected. If you want to get upset, get upset that a T5-U C-Store ship costs more than a T6 ship. Let that sink in a moment.
The upgrade price was expected, and most thought they would be 1000 zen.
Patrol missions have existed ingame since the beginning, and were a part of the leveling process.
Most of your points are moot, because money isn't required to obtain items you want. Yes, you have to put in a lot of effort to get the things you want, which is really hard for todays "I want it all, and I want it now" generation. Well if you want it all, and now, then open your wallet.
Cryptic is required to make money in order to survive, kind of required by all businesses. WoW is a sub based game that requires their patrons to pay money for expansions. Cryptic is a F2P company that gives you an expansion's worth of content for free, that finds away to make their profits elsewhere. I can't see how you can fault them there.
I think the only point I can agree with you on is the so called "exploit." They could have approached that differently.
I was about to post a very similar message. Frighteningly similar. Great minds think alike I guess:)
Tweet it to them, post links on the facebook page, link it in every social manner possible. The more noise it makes the more they can't ignore the TRIBBLE storm they've caused.
This needs to be done. Since PWE/Cryptic are pretty much ignoring the playerbase.
Can someone post links to facebook, tweets and RSS for peeps to know where to take it to?
I saw that someone posted this to a sub reddit, so thank you.
I'm thinking of starting a video series of the most meddlesome bugs in the game. Maybe a top 10 bugs of the week but It would be best if you posted them to the thread below and I will attempt to make a comprehensive video covering the most annoying bugs:
Comments
I don't know weird concept right, to actually just go work on the problem
The post now 500 dil is going to do the same the EP blog did and I am not even going to type out what that was since it's so obvious
Dont think it will work which is sad. Have you checked 10/30 patch notes...no mention of XP leveling being fixed anytime soon :mad:
There's a hint of persnickety and condescension in this statement, primarily the inclusion of a wink and mitigating the fact that you're calling me naive. However, I'll continue reading your opinions of my opinions because I'm not easily offended.
This is insinuating that I am incapable of "maths" calculations and assuming that I don't have a knowledge of game mechanics or that I am just some Zen Store Zombie willing to spend all my cash in microtransactions no matter what the price. Regardless, it's inflammatory and personal, so let's move on...
I'm a social scientist, so I understand "simple social reactions" in addition to judgments and decision making. There is not only in-game and real life economies that the developers need be concerned with, but psychological perceptions of utility and value of the games players as well. I understand the Time vs Reward ratio and delayed gratification vs frustration. As I stated, and have thought so since the Rep System was implemented, I think that we do need to have an increase in dilithium rewards, more ways to earn it (i.e., FE/mission rewards, patrols, exploration, etc.), or both. (As a player interested in immersion, it actually annoys me that dilithium is a currency in the first place.) My personal play style is to have one main toon and alts which I primarily use to experience the content from a different perspective or the different factions' story lines. This largely influences my opinion on the pace of leveling and earning rewards.
I also understand Zen store pricing and how price doesn't equal power. It seems that is the crux of your argument here. The problem with this is that these are pre-DR expansion prices in the context of a ship sale weekend - that's a small window of sale time to compare to the typical value in this new expansion era of STO. The "potential reward" to which you prefer is problematic as well because the definition of "potential reward" will vary per player. There could be rewards based on metrics or just intangible player satisfaction. I purchased the T6 Phantom because I wanted to experience the new content with a new vessel and explore it's mechanics. I base all of my Zen store purchases on several factors: short-/long-term enjoyment, current expendable funds, comparable value, etc. I do not purchase items that do not make it through my decision tree.
I agree. This is why I don't purchase many of the services and boosters, whether fleet or dilithium store. I'd like to respec him but I won't anytime soon because I'd rather spend the dilithium on other things. One example of this is an EV suit which, for goodness sake, I cannot determine why it's valued at over 100,000 dilithium. Maybe it's an oversight, but it speaks to either inattention to in-game pricing or too small a work force and prioritization.
He's the EP - I don't know what else to say. They put out information, I'm left to trust the information or not. Clearly, I'm more inclined to trust the information than you are, and that's not for lack of skepticism on my part. I took part in one of the infamous "LFG Japori Elite" sector patrol calls to increase leveling for the next episode. I was under the impression that people were finally willing to team for simple sector patrols to level as a community effort to enjoy it; as it turns out, not quite so much. My experience was good overall, the XP rewards were far exceeding my expectation and didn't feel right, especially considering that I had listened to podcasts where they discussed the intended speed for leveling. So, I didn't do it again, others did. I felt the response was appropriate and clear, although (if it is as far reaching as people claim) a bit heavy handed for those of us who didn't fully take advantage of the most extreme exploits. The good news is, you can keep playing and get your points back even though time was spent doing it once already. But I mean, c'mon - if we keep it 100, not a lot of time was spent leveling, which is the issue. It seems that many are upset because they got called out. Adults aren't too keen on being called out.
Reference previous comment regarding "heavy handedness". It could be that they are expecting those who didn't and received punishment any way to come forward and they fix them that way, otherwise both parties let it go. I don't think that method is in the players' best interest, if that is even how they have decided to handle it.
I'd agree that things are more in favor of the Publisher and have made comments about that myself. The game being on a different engine would undoubtedly be better for everyone. However, this is a joint effort so both of the companies catch player wrath even if one party is more at fault than the other. Your comments about the "cheapness" of the game initially seem off topic, but the missing link here is that psychological value I mentioned earlier. If I may, it seems that because the quality of the game does not impress you, the costs imposed on you don't meet the expected value and your impact your anticipatory emotions. This is not unreasonable being that this is how social reactions work; this is also my guess on how you linked those two thoughts.
I am able to follow the events, peoples' reported experiences, developers reactions and what it means for the community. I do not care for the majority of my gameplay to be rinse and repeat patrols/STFs either.
This definitely seems like a work in progress that should have been attended to more closely, especially when given feedback. Hopefully the tweaks happen quickly and balance can be restored so we can focus our efforts in-game and not in the forums.
I get it, we love the IP and want a game experience to match it. Star Trek fans are passionate people. I think a lot of the disconnect we're experiencing stems from my higher tolerance of the changes because it doesn't impact my playing style as much. Understand that people play this game for a variety of reasons. I know some people who basically don't run any in-game content except for a costume unlock or something because they are primarily here to RP. They aren't familiar with the way a lot of systems work they just love the IP. I know some people who have dozens of toons, have them spec'd out and understand how to play the game effectively enough to stockpile enough dilithium to purchase the LoR and DR packs through the zen:dilithium exchange. Perhaps, should it began to more seriously interfere with my play style, I would be as upset as others.
I think it should be easy to note that we agree on many aspects, even if we come to the same conclusions through different paths. I don't know if this means that we share a certain naivety or if I am not as clueless as you took me to be. Regardless, I'm interested in assimilating the opinions of others to continue to adapt my own.
Supposedly, this was done due to server stress but no mention as to why this took place. I have a sneaking suspicion that this was just a scapegoat to attempt to reduce the rage on the forums right now.
[SIGPIC]Click here to visit my STO YouTube channel[/SIGPIC]
Where did you get the info that this was due to server stress? I haven't even seen so much as an acknowledgement from any Devs that the post timer has been increased, let alone any form of explanation as to why it was increased.
It was from Askray, but he was speculating.
Ah ok. Yeah I don't buy that idea.
All I know is, this is damned annoying. What used to take me 5-10 minutes of forum browsing to reply to a few threads now takes me 30-40 minutes because I have to wait 5 minutes between posts.
The ships are $30 because they are T6, T5 ships are $25, the price of T6 ships was expected. If you want to get upset, get upset that a T5-U C-Store ship costs more than a T6 ship. Let that sink in a moment.
The upgrade price was expected, and most thought they would be 1000 zen.
Patrol missions have existed ingame since the beginning, and were a part of the leveling process.
Most of your points are moot, because money isn't required to obtain items you want. Yes, you have to put in a lot of effort to get the things you want, which is really hard for todays "I want it all, and I want it now" generation. Well if you want it all, and now, then open your wallet.
Cryptic is required to make money in order to survive, kind of required by all businesses. WoW is a sub based game that requires their patrons to pay money for expansions. Cryptic is a F2P company that gives you an expansion's worth of content for free, that finds away to make their profits elsewhere. I can't see how you can fault them there.
I think the only point I can agree with you on is the so called "exploit." They could have approached that differently.
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
=\/= ================================ =\/=
Apparently you can't criticize Cryptic even in jest
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=20363231&postcount=144
I don't think the forum rules permit me to say what I think about that.
Guess will not get fixed and this is the new NORM. Well done MR EP. Hope you get a big chunky bonus at the end of the year...at the cost of the number of players that left dissatisfied with that change.
Together with nerfing SCI skills (3 yrs ago), Tour of the galaxy and now this...well enough said and you enjoy your winnings at the cost of the playerbase.
Been playing since the expansion was released.
No problems. Love it. Just wish I had the time to
play more.
The ground map is epic!
Don't really like the Intel stuff but I can ignore it
Interesting.
That's again a time when a technical 'solution' was silently implemented, and only explained or even acknowledged once the whole thing became a crisis (or some level or another).
I smell a motif.
The 17 story missions were free thats it.
The cost of one tier 6 ship is nearly the same as most other games like wow's expansion.
Add in the cost of upgrading 1 piece of gear from mk 12 to mk 14 which is about $5 per.
The cost of things like the Operations Pack is truely insane $160 for 9 ships and some trinkets is nearly the price of 3 brand new full priced games.
DR was the biggest money grab to date you can try to defend cryptic all you want but DR was a money grab nothing more.
Was it bc the 500 dilithium cost to skip the the 300 second CD was BS? Perhaps misinformation was the cause there.
[SIGPIC]Click here to visit my STO YouTube channel[/SIGPIC]
That's hilarious...
I was about to post a very similar message. Frighteningly similar. Great minds think alike I guess:)
This needs to be done. Since PWE/Cryptic are pretty much ignoring the playerbase.
Can someone post links to facebook, tweets and RSS for peeps to know where to take it to?
I saw that someone posted this to a sub reddit, so thank you.
I'm thinking of starting a video series of the most meddlesome bugs in the game. Maybe a top 10 bugs of the week but It would be best if you posted them to the thread below and I will attempt to make a comprehensive video covering the most annoying bugs:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=20391281#post20391281
[SIGPIC]Click here to visit my STO YouTube channel[/SIGPIC]