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Argala 5K XP in 8 min Advanced Difficulty

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  • prierinprierin Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    accept it really didn't happen, and if after all this time you still think that it did you are either grossly misinformed or hoplessly delutional


    It didn't happen?

    Are you seriously going to sit there and demand that Cryptic didn’t go nuts over people using patrols for XP gain and went immediately into RED ALERT mode, closing the patrols in that sector, nerfing the xo gain and penalizing a portion of the players who used the patrols to gain levels?

    Somebody’s delusional… but it’s not meimeitoo…
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    You will forever be missed and never forgotten.
  • bobtheskull99bobtheskull99 Member Posts: 706 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    prierin wrote: »
    It didn't happen?

    Are you seriously going to sit there and demand that Cryptic didn’t go nuts over peoples exploiting a bug for XP gain and went immediately into RED ALERT mode, closing the patrols in that sector, correcting the mistake and removing the falsely awarded xp from the players who used the patrols to gain levels?

    I used to be delusional… but i am feeling much better now…

    fixed, now we are getting somewhere
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    accept it really didn't happen, and if after all this time you still think that it did you are either grossly misinformed or hoplessly delutional

    Lolwut?! What didn't happen?! You're not even making enough sense to get upset over. :)
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • ladymyajhaladymyajha Member Posts: 1,428 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    http://youtu.be/LuSMAiCVNP0


    After trying all sorts of missions and patrols this one still tops the XP. Battleship Royal Rumble will give up to 5K XP with some good loot but takes a bit longer and once you hit the cap you no longer get drops or XP.

    Trying Argala on normal, advanced and elite, advanced tops the score at 8 min repeatedly making 5000 XP+, that's one tenth of a level, so you can make a full level in under an hour.

    This was done in a double A2B Gal-X at 23% crtH, 4 phasers, gravimetric torp, heavy phaser turret (and console) and the experimental proton weapon (and console). It was so easy I could have increased the crtH whilst reducing resists making this run faster but I wanted to see what a reasonably good Gal-X can do it in. My Scim would clear this faster as would a good Narcine.

    I should note that I was using a lot of warp plasma to stop the Kazon from running away, it lasts longer than a grav well and tends to group them nicely if you time the dump well.

    I've not tested it on Eng or Sci, for them normal may still be better.

    Hope that helps.

    Really you didn't learn from the Tau Dewa fiasco to not post this TRIBBLE on the forums?

    Nerf coming in for sure.
  • tomgonjinn23tomgonjinn23 Member Posts: 204 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Where is argala?
  • bobtheskull99bobtheskull99 Member Posts: 706 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Where is argala?

    top sector of the delta quadrant
  • ladymyajhaladymyajha Member Posts: 1,428 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    prierin wrote: »
    OP, a word of advice from someone who has been burned for doing exactly what you ar enot (trying ot be helpful) - if/when Cryptic nerfs this and calls it an exploit, better don your asbestos suit cause the fames will roar...

    The difference is, when you did it you were being helpful before it was really expected that Cryptic would call playing the game an exploit.

    Now we know differently, so doing this is kind of off kilter. Still Argala is in the Delta Quadrant so there's a good chance that it won't be called an exploit since the difference is, Argala is new material, while Tau Dewa is old material they don't want anyone playing anymore.
  • bobtheskull99bobtheskull99 Member Posts: 706 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    if cryptic was so dead set against letting players grind patrols they must be frothing at the mouth right now considering players started grinding argala all of 30 minutes after tau dewa closed down (and still are in spades).as I said earlier this is old news, if they were going to nerf it, they sure are taking their sweet time about it
  • bobtheskull99bobtheskull99 Member Posts: 706 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    ladymyajha wrote: »
    The difference is, when you did it you were being helpful before it was really expected that Cryptic would call playing the game an exploit.

    Now we know differently, so doing this is kind of off kilter. Still Argala is in the Delta Quadrant so there's a good chance that it won't be called an exploit since the difference is, Argala is new material, while Tau Dewa is old material they don't want anyone playing anymore.

    lol, if this was true why put tau dewa back up at all? just leave it broken an claim they couldn't fix it. if you going to spout wild conspiracy theories at least pick one that makes sense
  • ladymyajhaladymyajha Member Posts: 1,428 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    lol, if this was true why put tau dewa back up at all? just leave it broken an claim they couldn't fix it. if you going to spout wild conspiracy theories at least pick one that makes sense

    Wild conspiracy theories? Really? LoR was launched middle of last year. Tau Dewa was introduced then, and was broken in the same fashion back then. Now suddenly it's an exploit but doing the exact same thing in Argala is acceptable?

    I get it, you love Cryptic and Cryptic can do no wrong in your eyes, but really it's not that hard to see, even with someone with Cryptic rose glasses and blinders on.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    ladymyajha wrote: »
    Wild conspiracy theories? Really? LoR was launched middle of last year. Tau Dewa was introduced then, and was broken in the same fashion back then. Now suddenly it's an exploit but doing the exact same thing in Argala is acceptable?

    I get it, you love Cryptic and Cryptic can do no wrong in your eyes, but really it's not that hard to see, even with someone with Cryptic rose glasses and blinders on.

    ^^ Rule of Acquisition 309: "Every once in a while make sense, it confuses the hell out of your opponents." :P

    That was in support of you, btw.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • ussinterceptussintercept Member Posts: 627 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    lol, if this was true why put tau dewa back up at all? just leave it broken an claim they couldn't fix it. if you going to spout wild conspiracy theories at least pick one that makes sense

    Because Tau Dewa is used by anyone leveling a Romulan? Their Story missions start there?

    Are you really this stupid or have you just never played this game?
  • prierinprierin Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    fixed, now we are getting somewhere


    What flavor Kool-Aid are you drinking? Seriously?

    I have come to the conclusion that you don't actually care what the topic may be, you just want to troll.


    Japori, etc. was considered an exploit because too many people took Crytpic's advice and ran patrols. Granted, the xp was higher there than anticipated. Personally, I thought it had to do with the new Elite difficulty level and a full team. I didn't know the xp levels were actually askew. Regardless, Cryptic went apesh!t and called it an exploit, pulling the patrols to correct the xp gain. Whether you want to accept it or not is irrelevant; this is what happened.

    (Some people DID notice the numbers and took advantage of it. I‘ll admit that. I won’t go as far as to call it an exploit, however. )

    Now we have the opportunity to do the same exact thing in the Delta Quadrant – run patrols on elite difficulty in a group. If people begin to gain levels there quickly can we say with any degree of confidence Cryptic won’t suddenly cry ‘exploit’ again?

    If you’re dating a woman who cheats on you and you forgive her, only to have her cheat on you again, are you really just going to shrug it off, pretend it didn’t happen and continue dating her under the delusion that she’ll never cheat again?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    You will forever be missed and never forgotten.
  • bobtheskull99bobtheskull99 Member Posts: 706 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    prierin wrote: »
    What flavor Kool-Aid are you drinking? Seriously?

    I have come to the conclusion that you don't actually care what the topic may be, you just want to troll.


    Japori, etc. was considered an exploit because too many people took Crytpic's advice and ran patrols. Granted, the xp was higher there than anticipated. Personally, I thought it had to do with the new Elite difficulty level and a full team. I didn't know the xp levels were actually askew. Regardless, Cryptic went apesh!t and called it an exploit, pulling the patrols to correct the xp gain. Whether you want to accept it or not is irrelevant; this is what happened.

    (Some people DID notice the numbers and took advantage of it. I‘ll admit that. I won’t go as far as to call it an exploit, however. )

    Now we have the opportunity to do the same exact thing in the Delta Quadrant – run patrols on elite difficulty in a group. If people begin to gain levels there quickly can we say with any degree of confidence Cryptic won’t suddenly cry ‘exploit’ again?

    If you’re dating a woman who cheats on you and you forgive her, only to have her cheat on you again, are you really just going to shrug it off, pretend it didn’t happen and continue dating her under the delusion that she’ll never cheat again?

    japori was absolutely an exploit, no one seems to want to admit because they're still clinging to some pathetic hope that if they yell and claim the innocent victim long enough cryptic will cave and give them their ill gotten gains back

    as for me being a troll, I wasnt the one who veared this off of the original topic

    and for your analogy, if you start dating someone else entirely isn't it jaded to expect her to cheat on you too?

    japori and argala are not even remotely similar situations
  • prierinprierin Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    japori was absolutely an exploit, no one seems to want to admit because they're still clinging to some pathetic hope that if they yell and claim the innocent victim long enough cryptic will cave and give them their ill gotten gains back

    as for me being a troll, I wasnt the one who veared this off of the original topic

    and for your analogy, if you start dating someone else entirely isn't it jaded to expect her to cheat on you too?

    japori and argala are not even remotely similar situations

    Japori was an exploit only because Cryptic suddenly decided it was an exploit. It was unchanged for years, since LoR.

    Why wasn’t it identified and fixed before now if it was such a horrific thing for players to take advantage of? How is Argala NOT an exploit if we are doing the same exact thing? Because the xp isn’t as scaled up? What happens when another expansion does the same thing to Argala as Japori? Will it be an exploit then?

    We’re not dating someone else here, are we? It’s still Cryptic and PWE. If we moved to an entirely different set of entities then no, we wouldn’t expect them to cheat. Sticking with the same gal, on the other hand…
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    You will forever be missed and never forgotten.
  • bobtheskull99bobtheskull99 Member Posts: 706 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    prierin wrote: »
    Japori was an exploit only because Cryptic suddenly decided it was an exploit. It was unchanged for years, since LoR.

    Why wasn’t it identified and fixed before now if it was such a horrific thing for players to take advantage of? How is Argala NOT an exploit if we are doing the same exact thing? Because the xp isn’t as scaled up? What happens when another expansion does the same thing to Argala as Japori? Will it be an exploit then?

    We’re not dating someone else here, are we? It’s still Cryptic and PWE. If we moved to an entirely different set of entities then no, we wouldn’t expect them to cheat. Sticking with the same gal, on the other hand…

    im guessing cryptic didn't expect everyone and their grandma to use it all at once, it wasn't really an exploit until they raised the level cap and hundreds of players flocked to it. Did cryptic not realize how bad the scaling was or did they simply expect the player base to not cheat when given the oportunity? who knows, imo its irrelevant, the exploit was there people CHOSE to abuse it

    No one is leveling up every other run in argala, its giving exp for the time and effort comparable to other content

    and if another expansion does the same thing to argala, yes it will still be just as much of an exploit (if not more so since we've been thru this once already) and fore knowledge or not if crytic fails to fix it will still be the ABUSERS fault if cryptic has to go back and retroactively fix xp again

    thought cryptic would be idiots....not responsible mind, but idiots
  • semalda226semalda226 Member Posts: 1,994 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Guys, don't worry and stop being paranoid, this isn't an exploit hehe, you think I would post it here if it was, eh?

    thats what the last guy said about japori
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  • prierinprierin Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    im guessing cryptic didn't expect everyone and their grandma to use it all at once, it wasn't really an exploit until they raised the level cap and hundreds of players flocked to it. Did cryptic not realize how bad the scaling was or did they simply expect the player base to not cheat when given the oportunity? who knows, imo its irrelevant, the exploit was there people CHOSE to abuse it

    No one is leveling up every other run in argala, its giving exp for the time and effort comparable to other content

    and if another expansion does the same thing to argala, yes it will still be just as much of an exploit (if not more so since we've been thru this once already) and fore knowledge or not if crytic fails to fix it will still be the ABUSERS fault if cryptic has to go back and retroactively fix xp again

    thought cryptic would be idiots....not responsible mind, but idiots



    ~sigh~ I don't know whether to envy you or pity you, to be honest...

    It must be wonderful to live in a world where someone can create a mitigated disaster and yet claim absolutely no responsibility at all. I’m glad you don’t work for final quality checks of Toyota…

    “Oh, the accelerator stuck to the floor and you sped off, killing several people and nearly yourself due to a mechanical failure we overlooked in our rush to put the cars on market? Well, it’s not OUR fault… YOU shouldn’t have been driving. Lalalala we can’t hear you!”
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    You will forever be missed and never forgotten.
  • prierinprierin Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    semalda226 wrote: »
    thats what the last guy said about japori

    Yeah... that last guy was me.

    I posted on how to get form lvl 50-60 in Japori with a group. The xp was good - I had no idea it was "too" good... nect thing, BOOM! Cryptic declares it an exploit and shuts it down...

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1262631 See for yourself.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    You will forever be missed and never forgotten.
  • semalda226semalda226 Member Posts: 1,994 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    prierin wrote: »
    Yeah... that last guy was me.

    I posted on how to get form lvl 50-60 in Japori with a group. The xp was good - I had no idea it was "too" good... nect thing, BOOM! Cryptic declares it an exploit and shuts it down...

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1262631 See for yourself.

    i know it was you and tbh i dont blame you i blame cryptic for an overzealous response but there is nothing we can do about it
    tumblr_mxl2nyOKII1rizambo1_500.png

  • bobtheskull99bobtheskull99 Member Posts: 706 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    prierin wrote: »
    ~sigh~ I don't know whether to envy you or pity you, to be honest...

    It must be wonderful to live in a world where someone can create a mitigated disaster and yet claim absolutely no responsibility at all. I’m glad you don’t work for final quality checks of Toyota…

    “Oh, the accelerator stuck to the floor and you sped off, killing several people and nearly yourself due to a mechanical failure we overlooked in our rush to put the cars on market? Well, it’s not OUR fault… YOU shouldn’t have been driving. Lalalala we can’t hear you!”

    funny I was thinking the same thing about you

    someone said I had rose colored glasses and that I think cryptic can no wrong (what a joke that is) when you've jumped through hoop after hoop to avoid blaming those truly responsible for this disaster, the ones who knowingly found a bug and exploited the TRIBBLE out of it, we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for them

    then again, I guess they got did cryptic to actually fix something, I suppose they should get credit for that at least
  • prierinprierin Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    funny I was thinking the same thing about you

    someone said I had rose colored glasses and that I think cryptic can no wrong (what a joke that is) when you've jumped through hoop after hoop to avoid blaming those truly responsible for this disaster, the ones who knowingly found a bug and exploited the TRIBBLE out of it, we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for them

    then again, I guess they got did cryptic to actually fix something, I suppose they should get credit for that at least


    I am not suggesting those who knowingly exploited this are completely innocent.

    However, I will not suggest that Cryptic is entirely innocent either.

    They created the mess, ignoring the fact this very issue was brought to the attention prior to going live from Tribble (the very tool testers used to gain levels rapidly in order to test content). Forced the rollout anyway and then acted surprised when people found that they could gain levels by doing this, DESPITE the fact they told players in the game “do repeat patrols to gain xp.”

    Some, like me, were under the assumption that it was intended – use of the new difficulty system in a group. Set the mobs to elite and go in en masse… even npcs lower than you would pop more xp due to the heightened difficulty and sheer numbers. After all, the devs said ‘go out and do this’ so we did.

    Others realized this was a mistake but, having tested it on Tribble and gave warnings to Cryptic, when it rolled to live they assumed it had Cryptic’s in-writing blessing.

    Cryptic had more than a fair share of opportunities to ensure this never happened and yet allowed it to, then penalized a large number of players from both categories above with minimal communication at all (or worse, NONE).

    It is not Cryptic’s fault that those who desired to exploit took advantage of the issue. It is their fault for not only allowing this to become an issue but in the active encouragement of players to go out and take advantage of the patrols, only then to act like someone slipped in behind and goosed them!

    Cryptic is anything but blameless in this debacle and they handled the issue incredibly unprofessionally and poorly. Surely we can agree on that.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    You will forever be missed and never forgotten.
  • bobtheskull99bobtheskull99 Member Posts: 706 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    prierin wrote: »
    I am not suggesting those who knowingly exploited this are completely innocent.

    However, I will not suggest that Cryptic is entirely innocent either.

    They created the mess, ignoring the fact this very issue was brought to the attention prior to going live from Tribble (the very tool testers used to gain levels rapidly in order to test content). Forced the rollout anyway and then acted surprised when people found that they could gain levels by doing this, DESPITE the fact they told players in the game “do repeat patrols to gain xp.”

    Some, like me, were under the assumption that it was intended – use of the new difficulty system in a group. Set the mobs to elite and go in en masse… even npcs lower than you would pop more xp due to the heightened difficulty and sheer numbers. After all, the devs said ‘go out and do this’ so we did.

    Others realized this was a mistake but, having tested it on Tribble and gave warnings to Cryptic, when it rolled to live they assumed it had Cryptic’s in-writing blessing.

    Cryptic had more than a fair share of opportunities to ensure this never happened and yet allowed it to, then penalized a large number of players from both categories above with minimal communication at all (or worse, NONE).

    It is not Cryptic’s fault that those who desired to exploit took advantage of the issue. It is their fault for not only allowing this to become an issue but in the active encouragement of players to go out and take advantage of the patrols, only then to act like someone slipped in behind and goosed them!

    Cryptic is anything but blameless in this debacle and they handled the issue incredibly unprofessionally and poorly. Surely we can agree on that.



    oh yes I agree the situation could have been handled better in some ways. I never said cryptic was entirely blamless either

    if possible the situation should have been communicated to the players sooner and their plans for fixing it revealed before they did it not after

    however....imo removing the xp from the players involved was still correct, the increased xp was not intentional and known bug or not, clear to the players or not, the added xp was ill-gotten and should have been removed as soon as possible
  • prierinprierin Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    oh yes I agree the situation could have been handled better in some ways. I never said cryptic was entirely blamless either

    if possible the situation should have been communicated to the players sooner and their plans for fixing it revealed before they did it not after

    however....imo removing the xp from the players involved was still correct, the increased xp was not intentional and known bug or not, clear to the players or not, the added xp was ill-gotten and should have been removed as soon as possible


    I agree.

    Wait, what just happened?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    You will forever be missed and never forgotten.
  • bobtheskull99bobtheskull99 Member Posts: 706 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    prierin wrote: »
    I agree.

    Wait, what just happened?

    I think we just came to a reasonable understanding.......:eek:


    ....lets never speak of this again
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    however....imo removing the xp from the players involved was still correct, the increased xp was not intentional and known bug or not, clear to the players or not, the added xp was ill-gotten and should have been removed as soon as possible

    See, this another sign of your tragic space dementia, all paranoid and crotchety.

    Sometimes you have to take personal responsibilty for your own mistakes. If a store is selling a $1,000 big-screen TV for only $1, then the price was clearly a mistake/typo, and the customers who 'bought' one were clearly trying to take advantage. In case of an Elite mission, however, which is roughly 5x as difficult as on Normal, and appears to pay out 5x the amount of XP too, the players had every right to cherish the 'reasonable expectation' that the payout was correct. Like in the above example, had the store set the price for said TV to, say, $900, then customers would also have been entirely justified in thinking the price was reasonable/correct. Any Court in the land would say so. Guaranteed.

    Ergo, in this case, Cryptic should have done several things:

    1) Realized the players were entirely justified in thinking 5x payout for Elite was fair;

    2) Taken personal responsibilty for not having listened to *any* feedback from Tribble. They were apparently even advised of the matter, yet ignored it nonetheless (thus tacitly lending their approval, even if the real reason was just them being lazy). Instead of taking it out on the players, they should have said to themselves. 'Oops, maybe we really need to start listening to feedback, you think?!"

    3) Realized not everyone is on Tribble, scrutinizing XP tables;

    4) Chalked off the error as an unfortunate mishap, on their own end, adjusted the tables (in silence, if need be), and just move on;

    5) Rethought the entire XP nerf to begin with, and realized that a 5x payout, for a mission that is 5x as difficult, actually IS more fair.

    Instead, they went and robbed people's accounts.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    prierin wrote: »
    I agree.

    Wait, what just happened?

    You tell me! And, for the record, I disagree: even when unintentional, there was every reason to assume people not involved in mass team-trickery in Tau Dewa were acting in good faith.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • truewarpertruewarper Member Posts: 930 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    *Looks at all posts*

    -sighs-

    'For every failure, there's an alternative course of action. You just have to find it. When you come to a roadblock, take a detour.' -Mary Kay Ash
    52611496918_3c42b8bab8.jpg
    Departing from Sol *Earth* by Carlos A Smith,on Flickr
    SPACE---The Last and Great Frontier. A 14th-year journey
    Vna res, una mens, unum cor et anima una. Cetera omnia, somnium est.
  • bobtheskull99bobtheskull99 Member Posts: 706 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    See, this another sign of your tragic space dementia, all paranoid and crotchety.

    Sometimes you have to take personal responsibilty for your own mistakes. If a store is selling a $1,000 big-screen TV for only $1, then the price was clearly a mistake/typo, and the customers who 'bought' one were clearly trying to take advantage. In case of an Elite mission, however, which is roughly 5x as difficult as on Normal, and appears to pay out 5x the amount of XP too, the players had every right to cherish the 'reasonable expectation' that the payout was correct. Like in the above example, had the store set the price for said TV to, say, $900, then customers would also have been entirely justified in thinking the price was reasonable/correct. Any Court in the land would say so. Guaranteed.

    Ergo, in this case, Cryptic should have done several things:

    1) Realized the players were entirely justified in thinking 5x payout for Elite was fair;

    2) Taken personal responsibilty for not having listened to *any* feedback from Tribble. They were apparently even advised of the matter, yet ignored it nonetheless (thus tacitly lending their approval, even if the real reason was just them being lazy). Instead of taking it out on the players, they should have said to themselves. 'Oops, maybe we really need to start listening to feedback, you think?!"

    3) Realized not everyone is on Tribble, scrutinizing XP tables;

    4) Chalked off the error as an unfortunate mishap, on their own end, adjusted the tables (in silence, if need be), and just move on;

    5) Rethought the entire XP nerf to begin with, and realized that a 5x payout, for a mission that is 5x as difficult, actually IS more fair.

    Instead, they went and robbed people's accounts.




    .....and somebody had to go and ruin it :(

    if someone received stolen goods, unknowingly or not even if they paid for it, its stolen and they will not be allowed to keep it, it was never rightfully theirs


    however it an attempt to maintain the trend of compromise

    1) some maybe, (though speaking for myself mind) when I heard the amount of exp japori was givng out I avoided it like the plague, it sounded like an exploit and I was not alone

    2) 100 percent agree

    3) again agree

    4) here, no, knowing or not at the very least its not fair to reward those who knew it was an exploit and if you think about it you only "lost" what you shouldn't have had in the first place

    5) I do agree that the amount of xp given on elite doesn't reflect the effort put in (one of the many many things wrong with DR to date) but im pretty sure japori was putting out more than that, but even if it wasn't that's still no excuse for using an exploit, if you have a problem with the amount of xp given on elite argue about that, don't hitch your wagon to this mess and i'll be right there with you
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    .....and somebody had to go and ruin it :(

    if someone received stolen goods, unknowingly or not even if they paid for it, its stolen and they will not be allowed to keep it, it was never rightfully theirs.

    You should probably not consider a career in law. If the buyer acted in good faith (i.e., could not reasonably expect the goods were stolen), you don't so immediataly get your stuff back.
    1) some maybe, (though speaking for myself mind) when I heard the amount of exp japori was givng out I avoided it like the plague, it sounded like an exploit and I was not alone

    Then maybe you shouldn't narrow your mind to Japori only. I was nowhere near Japori, or Tau Dewa even.
    4) here, no, knowing or not at the very least its not fair to reward those who knew it was an exploit and if you think about it you only "lost" what you shouldn't have had in the first place

    'Those who knew' leads to a foregone conclusion, as the entire question of guilt hinges on the very question whether or not people could have known.
    5) I do agree that the amount of xp given on elite doesn't reflect the effort put in (one of the many many things wrong with DR to date) but im pretty sure japori was putting out more than that, but even if it wasn't that's still no excuse for using an exploit, if you have a problem with the amount of xp given on elite argue about that, don't hitch your wagon to this mess and i'll be right there with you

    Sorry, but 'the amount of xp given on elite' is highly pertinent to this case, as it goes directly to the question whether people were justified in thinking the pay-out was reasonable, and were thus acting in good faith. Those in Japori may not have been; the rest very likely was.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
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