You nerfed XP for your PWE owners to try and get us to buy XP boosters....which you ALSO nerfed by 66% XP for the same 200 zen.
Stop trying to bull**** us.
It goes to show that the XP was indeed an intentional nerf as a consequence of the exploit in that sector. Thankfully nobody got perma banned for it, this is due to a majority of the player based taking advantage of it to some degree. It would be a financial nightmare if all involved were perma banned, which I hope none get banned.
The few D'Angelo mentioned were about 300 in total, meaning they were rank 60 players obtaining insane amounts of specialization points.
This raises the question of what an exploit is. Ill loosely define an exploit is any unintended behavior in the game that a player can use to gain significant advantage over others. How does a player know something is unintended? That is definitely open to interpretation and was a huge focus of the discussion in the dev team. In this case, we feel that the difference in leveling speed between playing other content in the game and playing the content that was singled out this week was so large that it is reasonable for players to think this is too good to be something the dev team intended to happen. We find exploits regularly, but it is uncommon to find one that was used to achieve enough of an advantage to require taking action.
Except we told you about this on tribble. You knew Argaya system was gonna be the hot delta patrol. There are even multiple bug reports because getting people into the same patrol system when using argaya was a gd nightmare before the accept/decline prompt change. There are multiple threads about this being the best exp spot from tribble testing. There are even videos of showing people the exp:kill, which for a carrier on tribble was 1700+ due to double exp. Which raises some serious questions about the math your team has presented us with as being "in error".
The fact is this. Since delta rising, my friends list has been more logged in than logged out. TD/Argaya was a level of gameplay this game hasn't seen in a long time. Id dare to say it was remanisant of pre F2P Gamma stf gatherings. People were having more fun than they've had in this game in a long time. Now, you've nerfed the exp so hard, doffing is better exp than being social with leveling. My friends list is cut down to the usually 8-10 people who haven't joined the rest in leaving. Perhaps this is time you guys step up and realize what you're labeling as an exploit has turned into the most enjoyable game time people have had in years, and would benefit you to exploit it as much as we apparently have.
You actually believe the people leaving are cheaters?
If you had read the OP. Cryptic had identified and gone after the 250 or so Players that according to them cheated. The rest that are leaving? Not cheaters.
Now sit down and let the adults talk.
Not cheaters but cmon. If you were getting 1400 xp per mob how could you think that was right. No mobs have EVER given that much xp. So those that went WHOO HOO and ground out 50 points were using something that was obviously not intended are surprised when rollbacks occurred. Happens all the time in MMO's.
There's still no definition of which maps were exploitable.
Were're talking Only Tau Dewa patrols? Or all patrols?
Details, we copious details about the subject. Which maps are considered exploitable.
I seriously think the dev team needs to pay more attention to reality in which players are. Of course people will want to level fast.
The question is which players will want to do that... The ones that are willing to spend hundreds of hours doing the grind, to get to the max level?
These are people that, most certainly, were the most loyal and most devoted of the fans. The min-maxers, the people that want and will work to be the best.
The situation was still handled poorly and I still don't agree with the decision of rolling back the points, because of bug caused by developers incompetence. ( personally, I wasn't affected, the question over here is - what is right, and what is not. If the word "exploit" can be slapped freely on everything, it's the most insecure and unstable element )
I see no mention of Tau Dewa. Perhaps the small percentage of the community that uses the forums is jumping to conclusions and it was an exploit that was found elsewhere? Frankly, it only took me a few days playing casually to get from 50 to 60 so I feel that the Devs are in the right on this one. The action they took to punish the folks obviously abusing something that was easily exploitable was something I have seen before from almost any other Developer in the business so it shouldn't have been surprising. Enjoy the rare communication from them and move on.
Ok thanks very much for the explanation and makes sense.
But how about the Skill Level Points nerfing. Are we to assume they will revert back to previous levels or this is the new norm? Not clear on that one.
While I don't entirely agree with what you're saying (I personally think DR should have launched with a lot more story content than it did, and that bugs like 5 FPS in Patrols should have been patched instead of being Known Shipables - they are quite game-breaking), I like that you're at least saying something. It reminds me of how the game used to be. And one of my favorite things was dev transparency, which we seem to have lost of late. Thank you.
Now hopefully those that are raging and flaming can finally shut up and get back to playing. You got your answer now be patient.
I have the exact same wish of you... Seriously, I do.
On topic...
I appreciate this answer. I think sharing data such as the stats on how fast people were leveling is important information to share and does not breach any type of protocol put in place to protect against exploits. This is the kind of response a responsible company releases and they generally do so before mass hysteria sets in. I did appreciate the apology at the end; I felt it was genuine.
I find the use of the phrase "hundreds of thousands" (used more than once) to be hyperbole; I sincerely doubt that many people are playing this game. This letter addressed some issues while ignoring others. For example, why have rewards decreased so much? And why did you take away the Dilithium reward when you finally reach max level? It will take a long time and a difficult journey to get there without exploiting the system so you should really consider putting that benefit back in place.
At any rate, thank you for posting. Your post count is now 2. Perhaps you can try to be a little more active with the community so we can at least sense you have our best interests at heart. This post doesn't really do that, but it's a healthy start in my humble opinion.
Im just going to say this in the most respectful way i can.
You at Cryptic could have handled this better from the start. while i appreciate you putting forth this post i think your silence spoke more then this post over the last week.
and may i recommend setting all of your workers up with a non Q account so they can speak with us directly the Q account makes it seem like they are hiding from shame or something worse.
if you can start communicating sooner this could have been avoided.
aswell i still think you owe the romulans who missed out on doing their missions an apology.
with all this being said I am sorry to say my faith is fractured with you personally D'angelo and if you want further information feel free to contact me.
Not cheaters but cmon. If you were getting 1400 xp per mob how could you think that was right. No mobs have EVER given that much xp. So those that went WHOO HOO and ground out 50 points were using something that was obviously not intended are surprised when rollbacks occurred. Happens all the time in MMO's.
I agree, players that were rank 60 were rolling in those points, unlike those that only used it to obtain rank 60 and moved on. There are way too many players involved for harsh action, I believe rollback is adequate enough. Heck, if they wanted to, they could reset the whole server and roll it back for like a week or so, placing everyone at rank 50. However; they chose not to.
Wow, this PR nightmare must have really hit the fan/metrics, to get the EP to come out of hiding...
Honestly, you guys messed up big time. It is tempting to say to learn from this, but I think we all know how that will go.
The elephant in the room, however, is that had you not made the DR leveling process such a slow and painful bore, I very much doubt anyone would have needed to take it to those levels....
Im just going to say this in the most respectful way i can.
You at Cryptic could have handled this better from the start. while i appreciate you putting forth this post i think your silence spoke more then this post over the last week.
and may i recommend setting all of your workers up with a non Q account so they can speak with us directly the Q account makes it seem like they are hiding from shame or something worse.
if you can start communicating sooner this could have been avoided.
aswell i still think you owe the romulans who missed out on doing their missions an apology.
with all this being said I am sorry to say my faith is fractured with you personally D'angelo and if you want further information feel free to contact me.
Why so that people can tear each and every employees heads off personally like they do to Trendy?
I still don't understand why this removing this exploit has resulted in the fact that missions now reward less xp for completion. Its like, "Hey, a few people have exploited XP. Lets remove the exploit, take the XP, and reward everyone else with a massive XP decrease".
Well I for one thank you cryptic. Your really know how to make a game wayyyy more fun.
It is the internet and it is a very popular and emotionally invested IPO they will have to get used to it but if they were in contact with us more and more to the point make sure they are keeping us aware of situations like this alot of grief could have been avoided.
I appreciate you taking the time to set the story strait.
I do wish you would have taken more responsibility for allowing the potential exploit to exist for as long as it did, in the public spotlight, before anyone bothered to look into it.
I think you would regain much of the respect? confidence? lost with this entire debacle if you were actively reexamining how the team can identify and respond faster to such things in the future.
Right now I can gain 17x the number of salvaged technology by running Bug Hunt Elite than I can any other content. Perhaps Undine Infiltration Elite would be the same rate I am unsure. Should I be concerned that I am 'exploiting' the lower difficulty of that mission?
I still don't understand why this removing this exploit has resulted in the fact that missions now reward less xp for completion. Its like, "Hey, a few people have exploited XP. Lets remove the exploit, take the XP, and reward everyone else with a massive XP decrease".
Well I for one thank you cryptic. Your really know how to make a game wayyyy more fun.
BINGO...what is the answer for that one or this is the norm which will literally ANNOY the TRIBBLE out of STO.
Why so that people can tear each and every employees heads off personally like they do to Trendy?
I think that was the one ugly thing about this outside of the obvious, because Trendy didn't deserve to be hounded like that, it's not her fault after all.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
Wow, this PR nightmare must have really hit the fan/metrics, to get the EP to come out of hiding...
Honestly, you guys messed up big time. It is tempting to say to learn from this, but I think we all know how that will go.
The elephant in the room, however, is that had you not made the DR leveling process such a slow and painful bore, I very much doubt anyone would have needed to take it to those levels....
Though to be honest, I remember when STO first launched, leveling to VA took an eternity, enter F2P, they sped it up. Suddenly the masses cried out that it was too fast & too easy in reaching max rank. Now it is the opposite, goes to show you the shift in clientele, that is the game population.
I do remember those nightmare days where just leveling one toon took a very long time in the Pre-PWE era. Am I the only one that is an ancient STO player since BETA? :cool:
I still don't understand why this removing this exploit has resulted in the fact that missions now reward less xp for completion. Its like, "Hey, a few people have exploited XP. Lets remove the exploit, take the XP, and reward everyone else with a massive XP decrease".
Well I for one thank you cryptic. Your really know how to make a game wayyyy more fun.
Just for some clarification for those who are asking about the XP changes when it comes to XP earned when fighting Elite NPCs.
The patchnotes for Holodeck mentions the values were incorrect and this refers to the values that changed with the Delta Rising launch itself. To break it down:
Prior to the release of Delta Rising: Players earned 1.75 times the XP value for Elite NPCs when compared to Normal NPCs.
With the launch of Delta Rising: Players earned 5 times the XP value for Elite NPCs when compared to Normal NPCs.
This was the incorrect value the release notes mention and is the reason for the change made on 10/23.
With the update to Holodeck on 10/23: Players now earn 2 times the XP value for Elite NPCs when compared to Normal NPCs.
Currently, Tribble will have the incorrect value of 5 times the XP value for Elite NPCs when compared to Normal NPCs which will be updated on the next path to Tribble.
I have looked into the claim that some players were not using the exploit maps, but so far every claim I have come across has not held up under data pulls. If anyone still thinks they lost specialization points when they should not have should please file a CS ticket. CS tickets get a tracking number that can ensure we take care of everyone with a concern.
I'd like to file a CS ticket, but a GM told me to go file a Bug Report; and the latter department referred me back to Trendy's official forum post.
and as a side note id like to point out anytime i have posted towards a dev myself it has been as respectful as i can be considering my own feelings what id like to say about how this was handled is much much worse then what i have
how ever that wont help avoid these type of situations only Cryptic can take the first step and we follow.
Now Askray is running about the forum shutting down every thread related to this fiasco.
Looks like Cryptic did take a hit with all this nonsense. And theyre hoping to quiet it down so they dont lose anymore.
17x the rate...Not sure if we're talking XP points or the time required to get through Japori on Elite. Cause if its the time then Im going to go ahead and say it wasnt an exploit. Its been like that for as long as the mission has existed.
Everything points to Cryptic clenching their teeth down around the playerbase and taking the Free out of Free to Play.
Two days after all of this nonsense the EP decides its time to speak up? Bull**** this is trying to get out in front of TRIBBLE you brought on yourselves.
Though to be honest, I remember when STO first launched, leveling to VA took an eternity, enter F2P, they sped it up. Suddenly the masses cried out that it was too fast & too easy in reaching max rank. Now it is the opposite, goes to show you the shift in clientele, that is the game population.
I do remember those nightmare days where just leveling one toon took a very long time in the Pre-PWE era. Am I the only one that is an ancient STO player since BETA? :cool:
No you aren't. I remember the Borg ground enemies who instead of adapting summoned additional Borg.
Now Askray is running about the forum shutting down every thread related to this fiasco.
.....
or maybe there is no need for 100 threads on the same topic, when this one has D'Angelo coming out of the proverbial closet with an explanation. :cool:
That is the level of communication I would like to see between the development team and the players, always, and regarding everything. Is that really too much to ask?
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Comments
It goes to show that the XP was indeed an intentional nerf as a consequence of the exploit in that sector. Thankfully nobody got perma banned for it, this is due to a majority of the player based taking advantage of it to some degree. It would be a financial nightmare if all involved were perma banned, which I hope none get banned.
The few D'Angelo mentioned were about 300 in total, meaning they were rank 60 players obtaining insane amounts of specialization points.
Except we told you about this on tribble. You knew Argaya system was gonna be the hot delta patrol. There are even multiple bug reports because getting people into the same patrol system when using argaya was a gd nightmare before the accept/decline prompt change. There are multiple threads about this being the best exp spot from tribble testing. There are even videos of showing people the exp:kill, which for a carrier on tribble was 1700+ due to double exp. Which raises some serious questions about the math your team has presented us with as being "in error".
The fact is this. Since delta rising, my friends list has been more logged in than logged out. TD/Argaya was a level of gameplay this game hasn't seen in a long time. Id dare to say it was remanisant of pre F2P Gamma stf gatherings. People were having more fun than they've had in this game in a long time. Now, you've nerfed the exp so hard, doffing is better exp than being social with leveling. My friends list is cut down to the usually 8-10 people who haven't joined the rest in leaving. Perhaps this is time you guys step up and realize what you're labeling as an exploit has turned into the most enjoyable game time people have had in years, and would benefit you to exploit it as much as we apparently have.
Not cheaters but cmon. If you were getting 1400 xp per mob how could you think that was right. No mobs have EVER given that much xp. So those that went WHOO HOO and ground out 50 points were using something that was obviously not intended are surprised when rollbacks occurred. Happens all the time in MMO's.
I see no mention of Tau Dewa. Perhaps the small percentage of the community that uses the forums is jumping to conclusions and it was an exploit that was found elsewhere? Frankly, it only took me a few days playing casually to get from 50 to 60 so I feel that the Devs are in the right on this one. The action they took to punish the folks obviously abusing something that was easily exploitable was something I have seen before from almost any other Developer in the business so it shouldn't have been surprising. Enjoy the rare communication from them and move on.
But how about the Skill Level Points nerfing. Are we to assume they will revert back to previous levels or this is the new norm? Not clear on that one.
Thanks!
I have the exact same wish of you... Seriously, I do.
On topic...
I appreciate this answer. I think sharing data such as the stats on how fast people were leveling is important information to share and does not breach any type of protocol put in place to protect against exploits. This is the kind of response a responsible company releases and they generally do so before mass hysteria sets in. I did appreciate the apology at the end; I felt it was genuine.
I find the use of the phrase "hundreds of thousands" (used more than once) to be hyperbole; I sincerely doubt that many people are playing this game. This letter addressed some issues while ignoring others. For example, why have rewards decreased so much? And why did you take away the Dilithium reward when you finally reach max level? It will take a long time and a difficult journey to get there without exploiting the system so you should really consider putting that benefit back in place.
At any rate, thank you for posting. Your post count is now 2. Perhaps you can try to be a little more active with the community so we can at least sense you have our best interests at heart. This post doesn't really do that, but it's a healthy start in my humble opinion.
Firesworn Nation (@rswfire) - https://www.firesworn.com
You at Cryptic could have handled this better from the start. while i appreciate you putting forth this post i think your silence spoke more then this post over the last week.
and may i recommend setting all of your workers up with a non Q account so they can speak with us directly the Q account makes it seem like they are hiding from shame or something worse.
if you can start communicating sooner this could have been avoided.
aswell i still think you owe the romulans who missed out on doing their missions an apology.
with all this being said I am sorry to say my faith is fractured with you personally D'angelo and if you want further information feel free to contact me.
I agree, players that were rank 60 were rolling in those points, unlike those that only used it to obtain rank 60 and moved on. There are way too many players involved for harsh action, I believe rollback is adequate enough. Heck, if they wanted to, they could reset the whole server and roll it back for like a week or so, placing everyone at rank 50. However; they chose not to.
Honestly, you guys messed up big time. It is tempting to say to learn from this, but I think we all know how that will go.
The elephant in the room, however, is that had you not made the DR leveling process such a slow and painful bore, I very much doubt anyone would have needed to take it to those levels....
Why so that people can tear each and every employees heads off personally like they do to Trendy?
Well I for one thank you cryptic. Your really know how to make a game wayyyy more fun.
Imagine if they put this much obsession and effort into fixing actual bugs instead of swinging their Nerfbat around.
It doesn't. This is just verbal TRIBBLE-polishing by Cryptic to excuse their anti-fun policy.
I do wish you would have taken more responsibility for allowing the potential exploit to exist for as long as it did, in the public spotlight, before anyone bothered to look into it.
I think you would regain much of the respect? confidence? lost with this entire debacle if you were actively reexamining how the team can identify and respond faster to such things in the future.
Right now I can gain 17x the number of salvaged technology by running Bug Hunt Elite than I can any other content. Perhaps Undine Infiltration Elite would be the same rate I am unsure. Should I be concerned that I am 'exploiting' the lower difficulty of that mission?
BINGO...what is the answer for that one or this is the norm which will literally ANNOY the TRIBBLE out of STO.
I think that was the one ugly thing about this outside of the obvious, because Trendy didn't deserve to be hounded like that, it's not her fault after all.
Though to be honest, I remember when STO first launched, leveling to VA took an eternity, enter F2P, they sped it up. Suddenly the masses cried out that it was too fast & too easy in reaching max rank. Now it is the opposite, goes to show you the shift in clientele, that is the game population.
I do remember those nightmare days where just leveling one toon took a very long time in the Pre-PWE era. Am I the only one that is an ancient STO player since BETA? :cool:
This has already been explained here:
I'd like to file a CS ticket, but a GM told me to go file a Bug Report; and the latter department referred me back to Trendy's official forum post.
how ever that wont help avoid these type of situations only Cryptic can take the first step and we follow.
Looks like Cryptic did take a hit with all this nonsense. And theyre hoping to quiet it down so they dont lose anymore.
17x the rate...Not sure if we're talking XP points or the time required to get through Japori on Elite. Cause if its the time then Im going to go ahead and say it wasnt an exploit. Its been like that for as long as the mission has existed.
Everything points to Cryptic clenching their teeth down around the playerbase and taking the Free out of Free to Play.
Two days after all of this nonsense the EP decides its time to speak up? Bull**** this is trying to get out in front of TRIBBLE you brought on yourselves.
No you aren't. I remember the Borg ground enemies who instead of adapting summoned additional Borg.
If 'the best' think leveling 17 times faster than anywhere else in the game is their due...we didn't need them.
Well that guy is one of the top 15 players in this game.
Who are you again?
or maybe there is no need for 100 threads on the same topic, when this one has D'Angelo coming out of the proverbial closet with an explanation. :cool:
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