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Female Odyssey uniform clipping issues after DR
jodarkrider
Member Posts: 2,097 Arc User
After DR launch, and some model improvements (kudos btw), we have some clipping issues with combadges & Belts, specifically with Female Odyssey uniforms.
My settings, which affect the glitches
Pictures are worth 1000 words. Used purposefully distinctive colors, for contrast and glitch display in the images. Used two images, with Dress & Long jacket uniform, in "Twitchy" stance, as an example.
Combadge used: TNG Movie
Belt used: Jupiter
Stances affected by combadge clipping:
The combadge glitch also occurs with Odyssey Excursion and Odyssey regular.
Combadges clipping:
Belt clipping:
My settings, which affect the glitches
Pictures are worth 1000 words. Used purposefully distinctive colors, for contrast and glitch display in the images. Used two images, with Dress & Long jacket uniform, in "Twitchy" stance, as an example.
Combadge used: TNG Movie
Belt used: Jupiter
Stances affected by combadge clipping:
- Twitchy
- Swagger
- Relaxed
- Thoughtful
- Brawler
- Creature
- Feminine
- Cute
- Gruff.
The combadge glitch also occurs with Odyssey Excursion and Odyssey regular.
Combadges clipping:
- TNG Movie
- Lifetime Combadge
- Science, Engineering, Command Combadges,
- Motion picture combadge
- Alternate future Variant
- TOS Command
- TOS Medical
- TOS Operations
- TOS Science
- Bajoran
- Odyssey 1
- Odyssey 2
- The Orginal Series Dress Uniform 1
- The Orginal Series Dress Uniform 2
- The Orginal Series Dress Uniform 3
- The Orginal Series Dress Uniform 4
Belt clipping:
- Wintercoat black
- Wintercoat brown
- Jupiter
- Enterprise Mirror Universe
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
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That'll help, and the elbows could use some more work in poses where they're bent, like when holding a rifle.
For comparison...
Male with odyssey belt on long jacket, female with Jupiter veteran, and female with odyssey.
It just reallllly sits too low on the Long jackets/Dress uniforms for females.
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I can push the sliders to their limits in most cases with no clipping, but you've maxed out quite a few sliders either at the biggest or smallest setting.
It may be impossible to prevent all clipping in every conceivable combination, especially when pushing the limits. ...unless we further limit the min max of the settings to prevent those extreme edge case combinations...and I'm sure no one wants that
If the next patch doesn't fix it for you, unfortunately you may need to scale back on a setting or two to avoid the clipping.
The next update will have a hopefully acceptable compromise. The Odyssey dress belts have been raised some - fitting the bottom edge of the belt with the bottom edge of the short jacket, while the excursion belt remains lower on the hips.
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I'm going to have to add that I actually prefer the lower-fitting belts and was happy to get them in the form of the Odyssey belts, seeing as there aren't that many good looking belts that sit lower on the hips for certain appearance combinations.
I do a lot of mix-and-matching and rely a lot on all three Odyssey belt variants, so I'd rather prefer if there be a separate belt for alternate positions instead of limiting options.
For instance, I prefer using the Odyssey dress belt specifically with the excursion look, especially for the lower-fitting belt look, so...changing that wouldn't really work for those of us who use such combinations, I'd think.
I'm not arguing your point, of there not being lower-sitting options for belts, but equally, I believe that there should be at least some Odyssey belt variant, which looks comparable nicely on long jackets, as the male model has it.
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"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
Meanwhile I feel all the Odyssey belts *do* look good on those Odyssey jacket variants, though it's more likely a matter of a character's body shape and how the belts sit on them as well as personal taste than anything else.
Frankly, the way my character looks now, being of a more feminine shape where belts *do* look good hanging on the hips somewhat, if the Odyssey dress belt (or any of the current Odyssey belts) are replaced by higher-sitting belts, then it'll change the look I was going for considerably.
I don't tend to use the other belts because of how high up they are for most uniform appearances I make.
Example images to follow:
My Andorian captain in her Odyssey long jacket with my favorite belt variant, the dress belt.
My Andorian captain in her Odyssey duty uniform with the excursion pants and dress belt.
My Andorian captain in her Intel uniform with Dyson skirt and Odyssey dress belt (seeing a theme, yet?).
My Andorian captain and BOffs all using the Odyssey dress belt.
Basically, I rely on the Odyssey belts for the way they are now, otherwise I don't use many of the belts. Same for my KDF characters, as there's only a few low-slung belts that fit certain looks. Lower-fitting belts like these also hide the slight (or worse) seams that stick out between some less-fitting attire combinations.
So, please, if you're going to alter the belts, at least add *alternate* versions of the same belts so those of us who rely on the way those specific belts look aren't cast out of using and enjoying their current and preferred uniforms and fashions.
But, as it is now, I'll take a compromise of having one Odyssey belt looking nice on long jackets, than having none. I am on the opposite side of spectrum, and I definitelly don't go for 'feminine' or 'sexy' look, but it doesn't make my proposal any less valid than yours, and it's only fairer that we do get somewhat higher sitting Odyssey belt as well.
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"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
My issue with one Odyssey belt being altered as a compromise is that, besides the fact that I personally prefer *that* belt (the dress belt), it makes it less mix-and-matchable with the rest of the Odyssey set.
What if I have a crew that utilize different belts to help differentiate their jobs and positions on the ship and crew, but otherwise use the exact same uniform? Anyone with even a minor eye for detail might start noticing that a portion of their crew decide they all want to wear *one* specific type of belt higher than everyone else's, at least among one specific gender of the crew.
That being just one example, it really does limit options when the whole point of having all these variations *is* for options. If we want more options, then instead of removing potential options, it would be better to have an alternate set of belts that sit higher while leaving the lower sitting ones alone.
Basically, don't take *my* preferred options away from me; I like the Odyssey dress belt, I like lower-sitting belts, they look good on a variety of my characters and BOffs, in a variety of mix-and-matched attire that is not just Odyssey long jackets (of which they look good to me as is on on my own characters and others), and they help hide some seams as well.
Add, don't remove or alter so much that they become useless to those of us who like them for how they are.
I am arguing the fact, that if this is currently the only way to get a higher sitting belt, by choosing one out of THREE variants - yes, you still have two left, whereas as it is now, I don't have the luxury of variety as it is now, in other words, I have none, then I'll gladly take it, over the sexualized lower sitting one, which does look bad on what I am going for, with my body shape. (I'd never wear my belt on a long jacket uniform like that, no offence.)
I can argument the same. You are not the only one, who themes their crew in some way. All my males use the Odyssey belt, on long jackets. I can't do it with my female crew, because, with the body shapes I go for, it flat out looks horrid and does not fit. I'm therefore forced to use the Jupiter belt, to make it look comparable for my females.
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"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
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I don't agree that it'd be best to alter one belt in a set of matching belts that are meant to be swappable with any other part of the whole uniform set it was made to work with, for all the reasons I've made thus far. It won't work for those of us who *use* that belt and prefer it as is.
Yes, it would work for you, but that would be taking it away from people who use it for its appearance and position as is.
I like the Odyssey dress belt specifically because it has the Starfleet delta on it, it's lower-fitting, and perfectly works with the rest of the Odyssey uniform parts. It's current position also helps to hide some of the seams from some uniform combinations. If it gets altered, then it forces me to use a belt I don't like as much.
So sure, it sounds like a good compromise to you by getting a belt that fits the way you want it to, but that comes at the expense of someone like myself who use that specific belt for how it is currently. Not such a good compromise for me when I don't like the other Odyssey belts as much.
The only compromise that would work is additional belt variations that utilize the same appearance but positioned differently while leaving the other belts alone to be used as is.
PS: For the record, I don't care if we get the regular Odyssey belt or the Dress odyssey belt to sit higher, for the usage on the long/dress jackets. I just want *one*, don't care which variant.
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"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
I'm partially reiterating as to why your position on altering one belt for everyone to fit your character wouldn't work as a compromise and why this is more of an argument of personal preferences than it is about absolutes.
The cat is already out of the bag and people are using these uniforms and belts, so the point is if a belt that is made to match the other three is positioned differently after having been in use for months now in a game where you can use uniform parts in nearly any combination you desire, that would alter the appearance of outfits where that belt is in use. It's not like it's an error, the belts were made to be this way originally.
While my character does have more of a feminine shape, I do have others and BOffs who aren't as "exaggerated," and I feel the belts look fine in their position as is. I'd argue that your female character used in your examples is more exaggerated in their physical masculinity and not the norm when it comes to the regular female shape.
However, I'm not saying a female character with a very masculine shape is wrong or bad, as there's diversity among people of all genders, even if it isn't a regular appearance. That's what makes people unique. But that shouldn't necessarily dictate how all characters/people should appear.
Yes, your character would benefit from a higher-sitting belt and it would be nice to have *alternate* Odyssey belt options that sit higher, even for me if I decided to have a character I want that for. It could happen (I have enough alts, though >_<). But removing an option, any option, when people may prefer it as it is, isn't necessarily the best way to do it. So I'll continue to suggest additional belts and not permanent changes to a belt that's been used a certain way for months now.
And, equally, counter-logic to your argument - don't take potential additional option from me, just because you want all options to be feasible to -you-, while none to other people, who prefer much less 'exaggerated' shapes. I am only taking this stance, as it doesn't seem we will get that separate Odyssey belt, which, again, would be the best option. So, it is still a compromise, like it or not.
PS: Yeah, don't even start the TRIBBLE about shapes' 'standard' here, that could get really heated with me, as I don't accept *anything* as standard for one or another sex & it'd be highly contraproductive for the sake of this thread, which I want to be constructive, and not full of heated discussions.
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"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
I'm not suggesting options be removed from you that don't yet exist in the first place. I'm suggesting it'd be better to add, not remove, options, that's all. It would be a benefit to *everyone* that way, and not solely to a single party. However, if that's not an option, it would be better to err on the side of caution and not fix something that isn't straight up broken until such a time as it can be safely amended without stepping on toes.
Speaking for myself, I use all three belts across a variety of characters and BOffs, and while I prefer the Odyssey dress belt, I *enjoy* them as they are, with how low they are compared to the other belts on female shapes. In fact, I'd go so far as to say I was excited to find out they were low-fitting belts when they first came out.
There may be others who feel as you do, more or less, and I am not saying I don't feel the same as far as character shapes go, but I'd also argue there's others who'd feel similarly to how I feel about this.
In the end, the belts are already in the game, they have been for some time now. Anything else is mere potential, as you say. It's hard to get upset at losing something that isn't available as opposed to losing something that is already in use and enjoyed as is.
As for "standard shapes," I didn't really say there was a specific standard shape, all I basically mentioned was your shape is a little more rare for a female shape and so is more difficult to cater to in a game that, for all its expansive tailor features, is still quite limited. Anything beyond has nothing to do with this discussion.
PS: Just because I prefer non-curvy shape, as it's actually more natual, when you wear ANY loose fitting clothes, which the Odyssey Long jackets clearly are, you'd NEVER see such exaggerated curves in the first place, that doesn't make my settings, and body shape as 'rare'. Geez...
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I'm not saying you aren't disappointed at a lack of options that are not available, but I am saying it wouldn't do any good to pull/significantly alter options already available and disappoint others. There's still a clear difference.
As for female shapes, one doesn't have to study anatomy for art to know how different female and male shapes are, but speaking as someone who has done so fairly extensively, my opinion and observations tend to lean towards the fact that, in real-life, female shapes are more curvy than male shapes, the latter of which tend to involve more straight lines and narrow shapes. There's very rarely any overlap between the two, and while there are some, it's still rare.
This doesn't mean female shapes have to be extremely curvaceous, but it's more likely than a female being built like a masculine male. Even Renaissance artists, though having to base more bare imagery off of the male form for female figures, still knew enough about the female form to apply curves when appropriate, such as wider hips and softer, rounder shapes. Nowadays, we know more due to medical science that female shapes are generally significantly different due to a variety of things, including bone structure.
And yes, the female form would be more hidden due to baggier clothing, but STO doesn't have a whole lot of baggy attire in the first place. Starfleet uniforms tend to be more form-fitting and still show just enough to give an idea of the figure underneath.
All that aside, I'm going to end by stating I don't disagree in having more options and variations, but that means adding and not removing or significantly altering to the point of basically being removed as a desired option for others. I'd rather we get alternate belts and keep all three Odyssey belts currently available as is, and that's all I have to say.
Please, crypticjoejing, do not make any changes to the odyssey belts whatsoever.
They sit perfectly fine on both my male and female characters. Please stick with your original vision and consider the far better tailor suggestions that have been posted elsewhere (including the elbow geometry issue with the excursion jacket that was mentioned earlier in this thread and others) Your hard work and time is greatly appreciated! Thank you.
My stance on this remains equally unchanged, so further arguing your point to me is a waste of my and devs' time.
If we can get a separate Odyssey belt for Dress/Long Jackets, which sits high, preferably to where Jupiter belts sit, by simply taking one of these Odyssey belt models, which exist already, copying it, adjusting the height where it sits, naming it as Odyssey Long Jacket, and voila, another belt born, great, I'd take that over upsetting anyone, any day, any time.
BUT - If it's not possible, then I'll take *any* Odyssey belt, doesn't matter which one out of the three, which sits higher, for the usage on the Long/Dress Odyssey jackets. Reasoning being, it offers variety to more aesthetic range, rather than all three Odyssey belts fitting just one, as it currently is.
If it was always "the needs of many" aka the most vocal groups on the forums in most communities, we'd never see tailor changes to female model ever, esp, the additional new sliders, we've got with DR, which finally offer more variety, in terms of what shape you get, etc. I remember the flak I got here, on those forums, when I even "dared" to propose changes, and additions to tailor, such as the boob slider allowing actually small size and waist slider. No wonder, that people who don't want to see barbie dolls everywhere just don't speak up, because they get equally flak'd out. So, no, it's not "needs of many", it's merely the needs of "the most vocal ones", who bother visiting these forums & speaking up here.
Also, your argument over 'extremely proportioned character', made me laugh... the person arguing their point with me, has extreme proportions as well, just apparently, more "acceptable" than mine, because it's what the most vocal group of posters wants... large hips, butt and TRIBBLE. Have you checked those pictures, even? I'd guess not.
PPS: A good example of how an uniform should work, and that my idea of character is not 'extreme proportions character', by wanting to hide curves... to your viewing pleasure, here. A female in uniform done right
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"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
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Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
Opinion.
But yeah tweaking an existing belt is pretty much the opposite of a "compromise". It alters something very few people have had any complaints with to satiate the taste of a couple of vocal posters. That's not compromise, that's an outright change in your favor. That's bad and it shouldn't be happening, period.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
I have also taken a moment to look at this belt configuration and I agree that is should be brought up on the waist to match that of the Jupiter Force belt. I am fully for having a higher sitting Odyssey Belt on ALL Female character variants because no matter how Jan wants to build her character, she should be able to make every detail the way she wants. And not have to conform to the ideal Female body type that is glamorized in society. IE the Kim K. of STO does not work for every STO player. Some want to be more natural and fitting. That is what is right.
The best possible outcome for everyone involved is a second set of female belts set higher up the waist like the male versions. Players who prefer the current belts do not have their look taken from them, and folks who prefer belts like Jo wants get to have their belts. Everyone is happy, nobody loses. This is what is right.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Heck, I'd even pay Zen for it...
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"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
Wow. So...basically a female head surgically attached to a masculine body. Got it. Your rigid view of "fe"male body image is so noted. A certain Mary Shelley story comes to mind. Would be so much easier just to make a straight up male character. Problem solved.
But I see your deep psychological need to break social norms and flatten that chest as much as possible, AND force that view upon the rest of society (or at least the rest of the STO community). Women simply can't be feminine. Nope. No sir. So wrong and objectifying! Is that about right? Double mastectomies are available.
jexsamx's solution also solved the problem. Excellent compromise. This forum seriously needs more ideas like that. The question is, does crypticjoejing even care anymore at this point? I wouldn't if I were him. Far too many more important priorities for the game and the tailor system.
It wasn't jexsamx idea to add additional belt, using the Odyssey, but sitting it higher, as a separate costume piece, it was originally mine, and joejing simply answered with what they were going to do. But someone didn't bother reading my post at all... Ding.
PS: No, I'm not saying 'you can't be feminine', so don't put words into my mouth. That's something I really don't like. What I don't like, is when this "femininity" is forced on me - not everyone likes exaggerated settings and scream 'female, TRIBBLE, butt' each time they run around in STO. And quite frankly, this concept is moreoften forced on female models in games, than not. I've been trying to have this change, when we have a *choice* to not do that. And, the female models were a largely on the cartoonish/comic-book side before DR. Again, matter of taste, but having a choice is which matters.
PPS: Since you felt a personal attack was necessary - My settings are frankly, more natural for any woman who wears *clothes*, which are not tight spandex, therefore, less curvy. Unfortunatelly, I needed to set sliders to "extreme", to be able to get that look, which is why people like you jump the bandwagon, to attack me with some sort of 'masculine jibberish'. For your viewing pleasure, Jeri Ryan, in an uniform - and she is quite endowed, we all know that, and the uniform does not reveal them all that much, as you seemingly expect - Jeri Ryan in uniform. So no, expecting a less endowed character, which mine is designed to be, would not be showing curves all that much, thusly, is not unnatural or supposedly 'masculine'.
I'm done defending my standpoint in this topic, but will kindly indulge you in PM, if you so desire, to not further mess this topic up. Also, I should not even need to defend my standpoint, at all.
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"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
Even ONE of my female characters probably has more T&A than all of yours/your friend's characters ever had combined. Would it hurt ME if someone else's female character was as flat as a board? No. No reason why you can't tolerate it either.
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