I'm wondering now though, if they originally intended to have them 70% of what they are now, but knew there would be a backlash to ANY increase in difficulty. Now they look like the heroes for going back and doubling* NPC HP vs tripling* it
*numbers obtained from somewhere between my stomach and my chair
I wouldn't be surprised. My guess is that they took a focus group from dedicated players who knew the game inside and out and told them in pre-mades to figure out how to make the content harder within the parameters laid out by Cryptic.
Which is exactly what they did. But by cherry picking your focus group and not using normal run of the mill off the street players, they screwed their numbers over.
Then when the complaining started in Tribble saying that it was way too much for your average scrub, it being tribble they totally ignored any feedback they were getting. Because like, you know it's obvious that they ignore feedback off of tribble by all the other bugs that made it to live without being fixed.
and like you and others have said they probably raised it up even more from what the focus group said in the attempt to make a TRIBBLE ton of money off of T6 ships just so people could be competative at Advanced.
So probably it was a mix of money grab and the typical Cryptic being Cryptic.
Yeah that kind of sucks... but then I'm not surprised. They still want their time gates and grinds or this wouldn't be STO. The more grind and time gating the better in their eyes.
The issue was lower reward and inaccessability to rewards due to having them gated behind difficulty too hard for the average 5k player.
Murphy's laws:
1- Murphy’s Law tells us that anything that can go wrong will go wrong.
2- And anything that does go wrong will get progressively worse.
3- And if you survive the first two laws it’s time to panic.
look at that, someone just posted this in 10k
CombatLogReaderInfected Space[7:45] Dmg(DPS) 20,421,818(47,492) 12,315,266(28,977) 8,820,060(20,322) 8,502,686(20,053) 6,839,153(16,721)
names removed since I wasn't in that game, but that's not all scims, and thats not ALL level 60's with mk xiv gear and t6 ships, which is (aside from the scims) what the content is designed for.
also, despite being the king, the scim is not the be all end all of DPS and they aren't an "I win" button. There are other ships that do 40k+ in the right hands too
Wow, that just shows how awful the game is balanced. The last place guy did 1/3 what the first place guy did, not even remotely close. Now how do you set a difficulty for this? do you set it for a group of 5 16k guys and have 5 47k ones faceroll it and call it to easy, or set it for 5 47k guys and have 5 16k guys find it impossible? Even if you set for this groups average dps you can still have 5 47k people faceroll it and complain content is too easy. Cryptic take along hard look at these numbers and ask yourself, how can we set a difficulty with such an insane variation in balance.
if you are average or poor at the game, play normal mode. this was balanced for you.
if you have gear and you have advanced your skill to a level beyond the average, play advanced. this was balanced for you
if you are an elitist jerkwad who wants to wave his or her epeen at everyone, play elite. There is no hope for you, you are a terrible human being (did I get the right amount of vitriol there?)
play the one that matches your skill level. you have the choice. Can't beat advanced? play normal. It's so simple it hurts my brain trying to figure out what the problem is here.
The problem is probably to do with, oh, I don't know, the fact that you can't get decent gear from playing normal, and you can't presently beat Advanced and Elite to get items that are needed to buy decent gear.
Honestly, this difficulty revamp is the worst move of the expansion. Not only has it been extremely badly handled, but it's only to cater to the min-max, play-all-day, spend-tons-of-dilithium-upgrading-gear players - the minority. To the casual player, who before could get by without feeling pressured into paying the extortionate fees associated with some top-end gear, now the game will feel brutal and unforgiving. Coupled with the fact that you need to pay to upgrade ships (and certain ships are not upgradeable) will be enough to drive some casual players away from the game.
This should have been handled much better. It was so simple - just add the new Elite as an additional difficulty level with additional rewards. We didn't need the other queues to be revamped, and if they'd been left alone, there'd have been more time to build new content and it wouldn't have resulted in the old queues being broken.
You're just a machine. And machines can be broken.
Wow, that just shows how awful the game is balanced. The last place guy did 1/3 what the first place guy did, not even remotely close. Now how do you set a difficulty for this? do you set it for a group of 5 16k guys and have 5 47k ones faceroll it and call it to easy, or set it for 5 47k guys and have 5 16k guys find it impossible? Even if you set for this groups average dps you can still have 5 47k people faceroll it and complain content is too easy. Cryptic take along hard look at these numbers and ask yourself, how can we set a difficulty with such an insane variation in balance.
One way is to not make every damned queue about DPS. Seems they either don't know how to or do not want to be bothered with making queues that require anything but DPS. I actually think it's the latter. They don't want to be bothered. Some suits (managers, executives etc.) probably point to metrics and cost analyses that tell them putting too much work into the game will hurt profits. Dead serious about that. Increasing HPs is incredibly easy compared to developing a proper queue that can utilize all tactical, engineer and science abilities.
One way is to not make every damned queue about DPS. Seems they either don't know how to or do not want to be bothered with making queues that require anything but DPS. I actually think it's the latter. They don't want to be bothered. Some suits (managers, executives etc.) probably point to metrics and cost analyses that tell them putting too much work into the game will hurt profits. Dead serious about that. Increasing HPs is incredibly easy compared to developing a proper queue that can utilize all tactical, engineer and science abilities.
I agree. However, even if they add various mechanics and non dps related objectives combat is still huge part of the game. And with such a huge variance in potential DPS it can be used to completly eclipse any new mechanics added. You are still going to have stuff to kill, so where do you set their HP? Set it where the 47k guys find it too easy or where the 16k guys find it impossible? You have to set the HP somewhere.
Also, how can you set a queue for special class abilities when you can't guarantee you will even have that class or ability in the instance? Look at CC. You can use some powers to remove the stacks (like Tykens, CPB etc) but very few people bring these because they have little effectiveness elsewhere. Or the queue just doesn't give you those people. this makes the encounter much harder than it needs to be as a result.
The more you look at how to adjust the difficulty you realize there are so many more fundamental flaws in the game that directly effect that decision.
The diamond queen in hive space should be a model example how to set up a very good AI. Personally speaking, I would be in Hive everyday if they would fix the broken V'ger lances.
Anyways ground Infected is so much fun cuz we gotta do all these interesting things in there. Although the powercreep is quickly catching up and it's becoming another DPS race. Statistically speaking, I think I've done more ground STFs than space STFs.
Ground is actually allot more balanced than space. At least as far as powers go. Also you don't get more powerful from 50-60 on ground, only gear determines that. I too enjoy ground allot more these days and if you'll notice, advanced ground STFs don't suffer from the same difficulty issues space does, in fact they feel largely unchanged. Amazing what a little balance can do.
look at that, someone just posted this in 10k
CombatLogReader—Infected Space[7:45]— Dmg(DPS) — 20,421,818(47,492) 12,315,266(28,977) 8,820,060(20,322) 8,502,686(20,053) 6,839,153(16,721)
names removed since I wasn't in that game, but that's not all scims, and thats not ALL level 60's with mk xiv gear and t6 ships, which is (aside from the scims) what the content is designed for.
also, despite being the king, the scim is not the be all end all of DPS and they aren't an "I win" button. There are other ships that do 40k+ in the right hands too
What would kick all of these dps hierarchy in the balls is, for the difficulty to perfectly match their own dps.
Imagine a 47k dps borg pounding away on your ubber dps vessel, now how big and bad do you think they will feel?
What would kick all of these dps hierarchy in the balls is, for the difficulty to perfectly match their own dps.
Imagine a 47k dps borg pounding away on your ubber dps vessel, now big and bad do you think they will feel?
How would that be for a challenge? Hmmm!
I'm entirely certain that what the DPS crowd would like to see is Borg that use actual tactics, like redistributing shields or using tac team, using attack patterns, healing, using teamwork etc.
This would actually pose a real challenge vs making things take longer by giving them more hp. I don't think this will ever happen though - look at the outrage over just an HP buff.
But if you try to see the whole forest, the amount of NPC HP is really not the problem, as that will inevitably get fixed by power creep, just how the old elites got easier with time. What stinks is the rewards system - that should be the source of rage, not how much HP the borg have. If more people complained about getting shafted on rewards instead of whining about NPC HP while the majority of people in the queue are not geared for it yet, we'd likely be getting a reward buff vs an enemy nerf - but now Bort has "fixed" the problem by making the challenge more in line with the rewards vs making the rewards worth the effort.
TL;DR: Don't expect them to up the rewards after they've nerfed the challenge.
What would kick all of these dps hierarchy in the balls is, for the difficulty to perfectly match their own dps.
And since that is likely too complicated for the Cryptic boys to program , the other option would be to hard cap the out going DPS in team queues .
They can still out DPS other NPC solo missions, but in group content, outgoing DPS should be hardcapped at around 15-20K DPS -- and have the missions balanced against that hardcap .
The alternative is that the DPS crowd wins and the majority of the STO playerbase looses ... , as others have said, you can't balance the game between ppl who do 3-8K DPS, and those who do 16-47K DPS .
Honestly, difficulty (or "DPS" in this case since that seems to be all it boils down to) should be a bell curve. You should have some people that think the game is too hard, some that think it's too easy, and the majority are right in the middle thinking it's okay or close to it. Before DR hit I'm tempted to say that the difficulty curve was centered a little too far toward the "wah it's too hard" end of the spectrum, so yes, the game did need a little difficulty buff. But now? After DR hit I haven't seen a single person saying the game is too easy. The curve is centered firmly at the the top end of the spectrum and everyone else is left frustrated and turned off because the devs chose to listen solely to the guys who play hardcore and think DPS and difficulty are all that matters.
This is an MMORPG, as-in a person should be able to play just to have fun in a Star Trek game and not have to min-max their ship and crew to do it. I for one am done with the Advanced queues until something is done about this. They're just not worth the time and effort to get those small rewards. I'll be back when the game remembers that there some people who don't care about stats and just want to have fun.
Admiral Katrina Tokareva - U.S.S. Cosmos, Yorktown-class Star Cruiser Admiral Dananra Lekall - R.R.W. Teverresh, Deihu-class Warbird General J'Kar son of K'tsulan - I.K.S. Dlahath, Vo'devwl-class Carrier
I'm entirely certain that what the DPS crowd would like to see is Borg that use actual tactics, like redistributing shields or using tac team, using attack patterns, healing, using teamwork etc.
This would actually pose a real challenge vs making things take longer by giving them more hp. I don't think this will ever happen though - look at the outrage over just an HP buff.
But if you try to see the whole forest, the amount of NPC HP is really not the problem, as that will inevitably get fixed by power creep, just how the old elites got easier with time. What stinks is the rewards system - that should be the source of rage, not how much HP the borg have. If more people complained about getting shafted on rewards instead of whining about NPC HP while the majority of people in the queue are not geared for it yet, we'd likely be getting a reward buff vs an enemy nerf - but now Bort has "fixed" the problem by making the challenge more in line with the rewards vs making the rewards worth the effort.
TL;DR: Don't expect them to up the rewards after they've nerfed the challenge.
yes, the nerf to the rewards is a bit of a downer but, I manage to find other means for quick dilithium.
I guess they wanted to try and, drive off the easy STF dilithium farming!
Why? Well, they have their reasons, even if they might be confusing to us.
If the dps elite want some challenge, than the Dev's should eliminate the capability to re-spawn in elites, this way it is either succeed first time or, start counting your losses.
We ground for a long time to get CE to 33%. Then people got board and left. Mission failed. What could we have done better? Nothing. Have I had fum? That was long, tedious and boring, so no.
I agree. However, even if they add various mechanics and non dps related objectives combat is still huge part of the game. And with such a huge variance in potential DPS it can be used to completly eclipse any new mechanics added. You are still going to have stuff to kill, so where do you set their HP? Set it where the 47k guys find it too easy or where the 16k guys find it impossible? You have to set the HP somewhere.
Also, how can you set a queue for special class abilities when you can't guarantee you will even have that class or ability in the instance? Look at CC. You can use some powers to remove the stacks (like Tykens, CPB etc) but very few people bring these because they have little effectiveness elsewhere. Or the queue just doesn't give you those people. this makes the encounter much harder than it needs to be as a result.
The more you look at how to adjust the difficulty you realize there are so many more fundamental flaws in the game that directly effect that decision.
"Difficulty" should be somewhere between the 47k and 16k guys.
And I'm thinking mechanics similar to the new mirror invasion event, where engineers can activate those satellite things faster and science can close rifts faster, but it's not required to have them. Mechanics like that add depth to the game without making it a pure DPS race.
They can do it, they just don't want to. Someone's telling them not to come up with new queues and new mechanics, to just increase HP and damage values in the existing queues and maybe add some extra mobs here and there. It's the solution with the least amount of work required.
It's pretty insulting really, that management doesn't want to devote too much time or money in to what is an A+, iconic IP.
"Difficulty" should be somewhere between the 47k and 16k guys.
But that wont work really. If its anywhere above 16k then 5x 16k people won't be able to complete it mathematically. If it is much less than 47k, then 5x 47k people would find it too easy. the queue doesn't give you a balanced team each time. The variation on potential DPS is just too wide to even come up with an average HP pool for mobs. If people were within 5% or even 10% of each other an average could be determined but it isn't even close. That parse showed someone doing 200%! more dps, 200! And because the queue doesn't check anything other than level that could be an even bigger gap. So not only is balance an issue but the random grouping is an issue too. In the end the only way to determine mob HP is to literally make something up, which is pretty much what cryptic did.
yes, the nerf to the rewards is a bit of a downer but, I manage to find other means for quick dilithium.
I guess they wanted to try and, drive off the easy STF dilithium farming!
Why? Well, they have their reasons, even if they might be confusing to us.
If the dps elite want some challenge, than the Dev's should eliminate the capability to re-spawn in elites, this way it is either succeed first time or, start counting your losses.
Their reasons are not confusing. They are predictable, and the same as ever. "Ow you find game to hard now to play to get dilithium? Thats okay, you can buy Zen and get dililthium by selling Zen!!"
STO, the game where Free to Play makes a change to Pay to not Play. God, isn't it marvelous how this is the only Trek fix in town? Good time to be in charge of this game, it's like having your cake and eating it too.
Aside from that, the only thing that is challenging about advanced is finding the willpower to stick to beating down the uninspired, boring healthbags that don't even pretend to fight back. Don't worry, it will get nerfed. And since it's just challenging by being more of a boring drag then PvE already was, not even the DPS crowd will care. Ha, remember that blog about how a health buff is what we have been asking for, for years? LOL. Less rewards that take more time to get, and instead of blaming it on the usual suspects, the PvP crowd, this time the DPS crowd gets to be the fallguy.
Well played, Geko, well played.
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
yes, the nerf to the rewards is a bit of a downer but, I manage to find other means for quick dilithium.
I guess they wanted to try and, drive off the easy STF dilithium farming!
Why? Well, they have their reasons, even if they might be confusing to us.
If the dps elite want some challenge, than the Dev's should eliminate the capability to re-spawn in elites, this way it is either succeed first time or, start counting your losses.
Dil is not really the issue, as like you mention, there are other (and better) places to grind that.
BNPs/salvaged tech are not available in normal though (and tech is only guaranteed on elite).
When it boils down to it, the "dps elite" will be playing elite either way, advanced will be for the ~15k dps'ing middle of the pack, and those who can't cut it in advanced - which will still be a sizable part of the playerbase even after the nerf - will still be screwed.
I just tried my first ISA today, and I am now in a state of despair.
Can't get the gear you need to do the STFs without first doing the STFs for the Borg processors you need to get the gear you need for the STFs....
Spheres are now tougher and hit harder than the old cubes and there's twice as many of them. After 20 minutes of frustration, boredom set in. And then muscle fatigue.
Classic catch-22. Whoever decided this scale of beefing up was a good idea needs to be fired immediately and the rest of the gaming world warned about this game-killer. Seriously, I am not joking about this. This jackass needs to be gone from the gaming community forever.
I just don't have the strength of morale to face this ... in a game!
just to point out, a lot of stuff on normal mode is buffed up more than it needs to be as well. I've been playing my missions on normal mode since starting, and as you can see by my join date over to the left I haven't been playing for that long. So, im still doing the base episode missions and some other stuff here and there to build my reps.
Such as the Pi Canis sortie missions. When once I could kill the enemy ships and complete the optional objectives on normal mode with my totally normal capable ship, I cant even get their hulls past 75% before optional fail. The frigates in them even had almost 150k hull and I couldn't even disable one before the rest warped out, let alone kill the escorts too. Then the empire episodes prior to any of the level 50 stuff are all buffed up as well.
Good thing is not everything got messed up. The Salone Dysons Sphere area quests are still doable with a normal ship and I havent ran into anything that just plain wtfpwns me other than dreadnaughts, but those are expected to wtfpwn you because they are group targets. I don't expect to be WTFpwned by a ship in the same class as me, thats just rediculous. How can a ship of the same class have more than 2 times the hull, shield, and weapon strength. Then if they upgrade from attack ship to cruiser, they jump to 4 times hull, shield, and weapon strength. it doesnt make any sense.
Now, getting all that on advanced or elite mode is cool, but im playing on normal so I can do the episode missions solo with my plain T4 ship. I hope they aren't trying to force me into getting the zen for a t6 ship to do some normal missions slated for lvl40, because thats not going to happen. A lot of this stuff is not longer tuned for even 5 ships let alone a single ship.
I also don't know how the L2P crowd even comes off. If I were getting reasonablly decimated on advanced I would give it to you, but this just aint cool. And even if he OP is playing on elite. they were BIRDS OF PREY! cmon, birds of prey. even if they had a mode passed elite birds of prey should remain the least of their worries when it comes to being able to down quickly. A lot of this stuff is now tuned to need 4 times the number of ships, let alone a single ship.
But that wont work really. If its anywhere above 16k then 5x 16k people won't be able to complete it mathematically. If it is much less than 47k, then 5x 47k people would find it too easy. the queue doesn't give you a balanced team each time. The variation on potential DPS is just too wide to even come up with an average HP pool for mobs. If people were within 5% or even 10% of each other an average could be determined but it isn't even close. That parse showed someone doing 200%! more dps, 200! And because the queue doesn't check anything other than level that could be an even bigger gap. So not only is balance an issue but the random grouping is an issue too. In the end the only way to determine mob HP is to literally make something up, which is pretty much what cryptic did.
Wow. Sadly you are so completly right I dont really even need to say anything else besides great comment.
Can't get the gear you need to do the STFs without first doing the STFs for the Borg processors you need to get the gear you need for the STFs....
That's utter nonsense. The only bits of "the gear you need to do the STFs" that comes from the Omega reputation system are the Assimilated Console and Kinetic Cutting Beam. You don't need to touch the queues to get full sets of gear from every other reputation (aside from Delta).
The best general purpose layout is CC Deflector, Romulan Engines, and a Resilient (preferably Fleet) shield if you have attack patterns. Nukara Engines and Nukara Shields instead if you don't have attack patterns. Obelisk Warp Core if you're using Antiproton weapons (for the set bonus with the omni-array), Fleet core with [AMP] if not.
It's not that you don't have the gear for it. It's that you don't know what you're doing to such an extent that you don't even know that you don't know, and think it's the gear.
I've tried most possible gear and I always come back to the borg/maco. Usually assimilated set. Or maco shield if not using plasmonic.
Fortunately you don't need too many processors to buy it. Just farm the marks on normal and hope for daily or hourly processor box drops. Then just hope for the best with a handful of advanceds.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
That's utter nonsense. The only bits of "the gear you need to do the STFs" that comes from the Omega reputation system are the Assimilated Console and Kinetic Cutting Beam. You don't need to touch the queues to get full sets of gear from every other reputation (aside from Delta).
The best general purpose layout is CC Deflector, Romulan Engines, and a Resilient (preferably Fleet) shield if you have attack patterns. Nukara Engines and Nukara Shields instead if you don't have attack patterns. Obelisk Warp Core if you're using Antiproton weapons (for the set bonus with the omni-array), Fleet core with [AMP] if not.
It's not that you don't have the gear for it. It's that you don't know what you're doing to such an extent that you don't even know that you don't know, and think it's the gear.
Too bad they suck if you run a drain build or Science Toon. :rolleyes: I've tried the above combos and do more dps with the 2 piece CC Deflector and Engines and Fleet shield with my Tac. The Nukara set is great on my Engineer. She has loads of power and shield recharge to make up for the meh Nukara Shields. However, my Sci, which has a Torpedo Boat would not be nearly as effective without the Adapted MACO Set.That Set is 15 BNPs and 3000 Marks.
If you want to talk economy or starter build, you're right on the Obelisk set but the 3 piece Solonae is a better choice.
That's utter nonsense. The only bits of "the gear you need to do the STFs" that comes from the Omega reputation system are the Assimilated Console and Kinetic Cutting Beam. You don't need to touch the queues to get full sets of gear from every other reputation (aside from Delta).
The best general purpose layout is CC Deflector, Romulan Engines, and a Resilient (preferably Fleet) shield if you have attack patterns. Nukara Engines and Nukara Shields instead if you don't have attack patterns. Obelisk Warp Core if you're using Antiproton weapons (for the set bonus with the omni-array), Fleet core with [AMP] if not.
It's not that you don't have the gear for it. It's that you don't know what you're doing to such an extent that you don't even know that you don't know, and think it's the gear.
Believe it or not, some of us feel that with the massive amount of end game gear available, we shouldn't all be having to use the exact same items on our ships to beat the content. We like our individuality intact. :P
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
Comments
I wouldn't be surprised. My guess is that they took a focus group from dedicated players who knew the game inside and out and told them in pre-mades to figure out how to make the content harder within the parameters laid out by Cryptic.
Which is exactly what they did. But by cherry picking your focus group and not using normal run of the mill off the street players, they screwed their numbers over.
Then when the complaining started in Tribble saying that it was way too much for your average scrub, it being tribble they totally ignored any feedback they were getting. Because like, you know it's obvious that they ignore feedback off of tribble by all the other bugs that made it to live without being fixed.
and like you and others have said they probably raised it up even more from what the focus group said in the attempt to make a TRIBBLE ton of money off of T6 ships just so people could be competative at Advanced.
So probably it was a mix of money grab and the typical Cryptic being Cryptic.
Yeah that kind of sucks... but then I'm not surprised. They still want their time gates and grinds or this wouldn't be STO. The more grind and time gating the better in their eyes.
The issue was lower reward and inaccessability to rewards due to having them gated behind difficulty too hard for the average 5k player.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=19998321#post19998321
1- Murphy’s Law tells us that anything that can go wrong will go wrong.
2- And anything that does go wrong will get progressively worse.
3- And if you survive the first two laws it’s time to panic.
Wow, that just shows how awful the game is balanced. The last place guy did 1/3 what the first place guy did, not even remotely close. Now how do you set a difficulty for this? do you set it for a group of 5 16k guys and have 5 47k ones faceroll it and call it to easy, or set it for 5 47k guys and have 5 16k guys find it impossible? Even if you set for this groups average dps you can still have 5 47k people faceroll it and complain content is too easy. Cryptic take along hard look at these numbers and ask yourself, how can we set a difficulty with such an insane variation in balance.
The problem is probably to do with, oh, I don't know, the fact that you can't get decent gear from playing normal, and you can't presently beat Advanced and Elite to get items that are needed to buy decent gear.
Honestly, this difficulty revamp is the worst move of the expansion. Not only has it been extremely badly handled, but it's only to cater to the min-max, play-all-day, spend-tons-of-dilithium-upgrading-gear players - the minority. To the casual player, who before could get by without feeling pressured into paying the extortionate fees associated with some top-end gear, now the game will feel brutal and unforgiving. Coupled with the fact that you need to pay to upgrade ships (and certain ships are not upgradeable) will be enough to drive some casual players away from the game.
This should have been handled much better. It was so simple - just add the new Elite as an additional difficulty level with additional rewards. We didn't need the other queues to be revamped, and if they'd been left alone, there'd have been more time to build new content and it wouldn't have resulted in the old queues being broken.
One way is to not make every damned queue about DPS. Seems they either don't know how to or do not want to be bothered with making queues that require anything but DPS. I actually think it's the latter. They don't want to be bothered. Some suits (managers, executives etc.) probably point to metrics and cost analyses that tell them putting too much work into the game will hurt profits. Dead serious about that. Increasing HPs is incredibly easy compared to developing a proper queue that can utilize all tactical, engineer and science abilities.
I agree. However, even if they add various mechanics and non dps related objectives combat is still huge part of the game. And with such a huge variance in potential DPS it can be used to completly eclipse any new mechanics added. You are still going to have stuff to kill, so where do you set their HP? Set it where the 47k guys find it too easy or where the 16k guys find it impossible? You have to set the HP somewhere.
Also, how can you set a queue for special class abilities when you can't guarantee you will even have that class or ability in the instance? Look at CC. You can use some powers to remove the stacks (like Tykens, CPB etc) but very few people bring these because they have little effectiveness elsewhere. Or the queue just doesn't give you those people. this makes the encounter much harder than it needs to be as a result.
The more you look at how to adjust the difficulty you realize there are so many more fundamental flaws in the game that directly effect that decision.
Ground is actually allot more balanced than space. At least as far as powers go. Also you don't get more powerful from 50-60 on ground, only gear determines that. I too enjoy ground allot more these days and if you'll notice, advanced ground STFs don't suffer from the same difficulty issues space does, in fact they feel largely unchanged. Amazing what a little balance can do.
What would kick all of these dps hierarchy in the balls is, for the difficulty to perfectly match their own dps.
Imagine a 47k dps borg pounding away on your ubber dps vessel, now how big and bad do you think they will feel?
How would that be for a challenge? Hmmm!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I'm entirely certain that what the DPS crowd would like to see is Borg that use actual tactics, like redistributing shields or using tac team, using attack patterns, healing, using teamwork etc.
This would actually pose a real challenge vs making things take longer by giving them more hp. I don't think this will ever happen though - look at the outrage over just an HP buff.
But if you try to see the whole forest, the amount of NPC HP is really not the problem, as that will inevitably get fixed by power creep, just how the old elites got easier with time. What stinks is the rewards system - that should be the source of rage, not how much HP the borg have. If more people complained about getting shafted on rewards instead of whining about NPC HP while the majority of people in the queue are not geared for it yet, we'd likely be getting a reward buff vs an enemy nerf - but now Bort has "fixed" the problem by making the challenge more in line with the rewards vs making the rewards worth the effort.
TL;DR: Don't expect them to up the rewards after they've nerfed the challenge.
And since that is likely too complicated for the Cryptic boys to program , the other option would be to hard cap the out going DPS in team queues .
They can still out DPS other NPC solo missions, but in group content, outgoing DPS should be hardcapped at around 15-20K DPS -- and have the missions balanced against that hardcap .
The alternative is that the DPS crowd wins and the majority of the STO playerbase looses ... , as others have said, you can't balance the game between ppl who do 3-8K DPS, and those who do 16-47K DPS .
This is an MMORPG, as-in a person should be able to play just to have fun in a Star Trek game and not have to min-max their ship and crew to do it. I for one am done with the Advanced queues until something is done about this. They're just not worth the time and effort to get those small rewards. I'll be back when the game remembers that there some people who don't care about stats and just want to have fun.
Admiral Dananra Lekall - R.R.W. Teverresh, Deihu-class Warbird
General J'Kar son of K'tsulan - I.K.S. Dlahath, Vo'devwl-class Carrier
yes, the nerf to the rewards is a bit of a downer but, I manage to find other means for quick dilithium.
I guess they wanted to try and, drive off the easy STF dilithium farming!
Why? Well, they have their reasons, even if they might be confusing to us.
If the dps elite want some challenge, than the Dev's should eliminate the capability to re-spawn in elites, this way it is either succeed first time or, start counting your losses.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
"Difficulty" should be somewhere between the 47k and 16k guys.
And I'm thinking mechanics similar to the new mirror invasion event, where engineers can activate those satellite things faster and science can close rifts faster, but it's not required to have them. Mechanics like that add depth to the game without making it a pure DPS race.
They can do it, they just don't want to. Someone's telling them not to come up with new queues and new mechanics, to just increase HP and damage values in the existing queues and maybe add some extra mobs here and there. It's the solution with the least amount of work required.
It's pretty insulting really, that management doesn't want to devote too much time or money in to what is an A+, iconic IP.
But that wont work really. If its anywhere above 16k then 5x 16k people won't be able to complete it mathematically. If it is much less than 47k, then 5x 47k people would find it too easy. the queue doesn't give you a balanced team each time. The variation on potential DPS is just too wide to even come up with an average HP pool for mobs. If people were within 5% or even 10% of each other an average could be determined but it isn't even close. That parse showed someone doing 200%! more dps, 200! And because the queue doesn't check anything other than level that could be an even bigger gap. So not only is balance an issue but the random grouping is an issue too. In the end the only way to determine mob HP is to literally make something up, which is pretty much what cryptic did.
Their reasons are not confusing. They are predictable, and the same as ever. "Ow you find game to hard now to play to get dilithium? Thats okay, you can buy Zen and get dililthium by selling Zen!!"
STO, the game where Free to Play makes a change to Pay to not Play. God, isn't it marvelous how this is the only Trek fix in town? Good time to be in charge of this game, it's like having your cake and eating it too.
Aside from that, the only thing that is challenging about advanced is finding the willpower to stick to beating down the uninspired, boring healthbags that don't even pretend to fight back. Don't worry, it will get nerfed. And since it's just challenging by being more of a boring drag then PvE already was, not even the DPS crowd will care. Ha, remember that blog about how a health buff is what we have been asking for, for years? LOL. Less rewards that take more time to get, and instead of blaming it on the usual suspects, the PvP crowd, this time the DPS crowd gets to be the fallguy.
Well played, Geko, well played.
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Dil is not really the issue, as like you mention, there are other (and better) places to grind that.
BNPs/salvaged tech are not available in normal though (and tech is only guaranteed on elite).
When it boils down to it, the "dps elite" will be playing elite either way, advanced will be for the ~15k dps'ing middle of the pack, and those who can't cut it in advanced - which will still be a sizable part of the playerbase even after the nerf - will still be screwed.
and for those people, well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDYtMt5IJpg#t=42
do you succeed to destroy alone more than 1 undine ship? (except the vila battleship).
vila batleships are impossible to destroy alone and even with 3 players on 1 of them, this is not even possible when you are targeted by the others.
i'm sure, that the devs haven't tried undine advanced stf, before the launch of DR. undine were very strong before the release, now they are gods :P
Can't get the gear you need to do the STFs without first doing the STFs for the Borg processors you need to get the gear you need for the STFs....
Spheres are now tougher and hit harder than the old cubes and there's twice as many of them. After 20 minutes of frustration, boredom set in. And then muscle fatigue.
Classic catch-22. Whoever decided this scale of beefing up was a good idea needs to be fired immediately and the rest of the gaming world warned about this game-killer. Seriously, I am not joking about this. This jackass needs to be gone from the gaming community forever.
I just don't have the strength of morale to face this ... in a game!
Such as the Pi Canis sortie missions. When once I could kill the enemy ships and complete the optional objectives on normal mode with my totally normal capable ship, I cant even get their hulls past 75% before optional fail. The frigates in them even had almost 150k hull and I couldn't even disable one before the rest warped out, let alone kill the escorts too. Then the empire episodes prior to any of the level 50 stuff are all buffed up as well.
Good thing is not everything got messed up. The Salone Dysons Sphere area quests are still doable with a normal ship and I havent ran into anything that just plain wtfpwns me other than dreadnaughts, but those are expected to wtfpwn you because they are group targets. I don't expect to be WTFpwned by a ship in the same class as me, thats just rediculous. How can a ship of the same class have more than 2 times the hull, shield, and weapon strength. Then if they upgrade from attack ship to cruiser, they jump to 4 times hull, shield, and weapon strength. it doesnt make any sense.
Now, getting all that on advanced or elite mode is cool, but im playing on normal so I can do the episode missions solo with my plain T4 ship. I hope they aren't trying to force me into getting the zen for a t6 ship to do some normal missions slated for lvl40, because thats not going to happen. A lot of this stuff is not longer tuned for even 5 ships let alone a single ship.
I also don't know how the L2P crowd even comes off. If I were getting reasonablly decimated on advanced I would give it to you, but this just aint cool. And even if he OP is playing on elite. they were BIRDS OF PREY! cmon, birds of prey. even if they had a mode passed elite birds of prey should remain the least of their worries when it comes to being able to down quickly. A lot of this stuff is now tuned to need 4 times the number of ships, let alone a single ship.
Wow. Sadly you are so completly right I dont really even need to say anything else besides great comment.
That's utter nonsense. The only bits of "the gear you need to do the STFs" that comes from the Omega reputation system are the Assimilated Console and Kinetic Cutting Beam. You don't need to touch the queues to get full sets of gear from every other reputation (aside from Delta).
The best general purpose layout is CC Deflector, Romulan Engines, and a Resilient (preferably Fleet) shield if you have attack patterns. Nukara Engines and Nukara Shields instead if you don't have attack patterns. Obelisk Warp Core if you're using Antiproton weapons (for the set bonus with the omni-array), Fleet core with [AMP] if not.
It's not that you don't have the gear for it. It's that you don't know what you're doing to such an extent that you don't even know that you don't know, and think it's the gear.
Fortunately you don't need too many processors to buy it. Just farm the marks on normal and hope for daily or hourly processor box drops. Then just hope for the best with a handful of advanceds.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Too bad they suck if you run a drain build or Science Toon. :rolleyes: I've tried the above combos and do more dps with the 2 piece CC Deflector and Engines and Fleet shield with my Tac. The Nukara set is great on my Engineer. She has loads of power and shield recharge to make up for the meh Nukara Shields. However, my Sci, which has a Torpedo Boat would not be nearly as effective without the Adapted MACO Set.That Set is 15 BNPs and 3000 Marks.
If you want to talk economy or starter build, you're right on the Obelisk set but the 3 piece Solonae is a better choice.
Believe it or not, some of us feel that with the massive amount of end game gear available, we shouldn't all be having to use the exact same items on our ships to beat the content. We like our individuality intact. :P