Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
that's fine for single player content but the moment you queue up for a team event or stf then it changes. What you consider to be a fun playstyle could ruin the fun of the other members of you team.
Example: if i'm in a run with my 30k ship, and there is a guy with a 3k ship in the same run. my "playstyle" will positively affect his experience, however his "playstyle" will negatively impact my experience.
Hm, Am I the only one don't see a problem with this? That is the price for ease of access content that means that you should be playing with people of all skills and be acceptable to it? That is the price for having a pug.
As we have seen in the livestreams, you seem to have a problem creating a good build with the right captain abilities, even if you have some of the most powerful ships in-game, like the faelth or the Xindi escort. These ships are extremely powerful... if well used.
So, in case you need help creating builds for your ships, don't hesitate to ask me by sending a tell at @giotariz.
Don't worry: i'm not saying you're not good at sto, maybe all you need is a good coach to help you get the best out of your build, skill tree etc.
As i said before, don't hesitate to ask me
I would love to know how people pull off damage like that. I tend to play Debuffer / Healer with a Torpedo Boat. Being primarily a Support Ship, my personal numbers kinda bite.
I would love to know how people pull off damage like that. I tend to play Debuffer / Healer with a Torpedo Boat. Being primarily a Support Ship, my personal numbers kinda bite.
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Well, about the top 5-6% of STO players obviously. (Keep in mind those numbers are inherently over-estimating the ability relative to other players.)
Well, about the top 5-6% of STO players obviously. (Keep in mind those numbers are inherently over-estimating the ability relative to other players.)
True, true. My ship does spike damage and then nothing for a couple of seconds until the next volley of heavies gets there. So my DPS is averaged with some zeros each round. Which isn't to say that I am doing nothing during those gaps. I do my best to bottom out enemy power levels while tossing Teams and Hazard Emitters on rest of the group. Buuut everyone seems to only care about the DPS number. *shrug*
when I bring my Sci out, almost nobody dies. Eialu's whole favourite piece of existence, is keeping her teammates out of respawn.
She hauls TT, ET, and ST, HE2, HE1, TSS, skills to free her teammates from debuffs, clear damage, and put fires out. That's what she does, what she enjoys. For the Parser crowd, she's useless, until she drops a GW3 on the mobs, subnukes the boss, sensor scans him, and analysis to make everyone on the team more effective.
But DPS guys only look at your DPS, not at what else you bring to the table to keep them DOING the DPS.
I think that I like your attitude.
My Main (Galaeanyss) runs the opposite end of the spectrum. She packs a mix of ES, TB, CPB, TR, APD on the Debuff side. One of each Team and an HE to Heal. She uses Torp Spreads and High Yields with Temporal Disruption Devices, Tricobalts, and BM Photons along with a set of Dispersal Patterned Tric and Chroniton Mines for damage and further debuffs. She has the Omega Shearing and Hot Pursuit Traits slotted for added utility.
When she hits baddies, they are not going anywhere and their shields are kept with hardly any regeneration rate.
Incorrect. someone with low DPS actually lowers my own score. there is something we call a Goldilocks zone in DPS. it's an area where the combined average DPS of a team is between 80k and 120k DPS.
If the combined average of the team is below 80k then the lower end DPSers will take away DPS from the top end.
At the other end, if the combined average approaches 120k then the top end DPSers will take away DPS from the low end, we call this Godsmacking.
I'm curious to see the calculations that lead to that assumption.
I know one person, the top DPSer, has a maximum potential that's proportional to the amount of enemies on screen and their remaining health. If someone is doing low DPS, it leaves more health for the top DPS to "consume".
As a more extreme example, a high DPSer soloing ISE will very likely hit their maximum threshold. I don't see how a Goldilocks principle affects this.
After the first play-through what would be the point wasting your time fighting a ship that's exactly the same only it has 80 times the hull, so it takes all night?
There's only one small flaw in your logic with your post. If he was playing the game, then yes, absolutly play how he wants and let him have fun.
Except in this case he wasn't playing the game to have fun. He was playing the game as part of his job as CM to showcase and advertise certain aspects of the game. By doing so in a ship that pretty much shows either a) he doesn't really know how to play the game or b) purposely threw that ship together he changes the value of what he was trying to showcase.
Was he trying to showcase that any idiot with a limited understanding of STO can still be competative in the game or was he trying to show how "hard" the mission was?
Of course he may simply have been showing us the mission by using the "standard" set up of weapons you get when you get a new ship, but then he went on to advertise other things about it as well that fell back on ship build indirectly.
So no, it had nothing to do with "fun" in this case. Nice try though.
Edit: The more I think of it, I wonder if what Smirk did was EXACTLY what he needed to do. See Smirk's in a bad spot. He's being told to advertise as CM that the game is so easy that anyone with a T5 and un-upgraded gear can do it, but at the same time told to advertise how much harder it is as well.
It's a lose/lose proposition. How do you advertise that something is EASY and HARD at the same time and show it in a single livestream? You do what Smirk did. You magic up a stock ship, do some basic upgrades to it, very basic, then go into a mission, make a good showing of it, then do what you have to do to win.
Or, bare with me, this maybe a wild thought, he is showing that the game is......fun
I'm curious to see the calculations that lead to that assumption.
I know one person, the top DPSer, has a maximum potential that's proportional to the amount of enemies on screen and their remaining health. If someone is doing low DPS, it leaves more health for the top DPS to "consume".
As a more extreme example, a high DPSer soloing ISE will very likely hit their maximum threshold. I don't see how a Goldilocks principle affects this.
Buff duration/positioning...and how time plays into that.
Unbuffed/lesser buffed damage is lesser damage.
Out of position damage - damage falloff - results in lesser damage.
It's a group effort to get those numbers - they're not solo numbers. Everybody does their part, things go well - somebody doesn't, they drag the rest down. Hell, it's not just those numbers - it's any group. Even the 4-9k folks will get dragged down by the 1-2k folks. If everybody's in a similar range, then the group can do better...if not, they won't.
Which is why some have argued for some form of gating for the Advanced and Elite...and it's how some can accuse even the 4-9k folks of being "Elitists" because they want to play with 4-9k folks and not have to try to cover the 1-2k folks.
Problem is, there's no objective way to measure anything except DPS.
Well, there probably is, but we don't have access to it.
After all, CC calculates more than just DPS to determine placing, but all the player used parsers (afaik) only measure DPS.
Wouldn't it be interesting if some parsers were created that measured, say, heals or holds?
Perhaps we'd have a new way of measuring epeen.
But they understand the effect that well used CC/etc has on the group's ability to increase their DPS. They're not blindly reliant on a DPS parse. It's why it's fine to see some numbers in the parser, but it's also something to look at the raw parse itself so you can follow along, and even there it can be further helpful to have a video of the fight so you can see things that weren't in the parse. And with time, experience, etc - you learn what's going on behind the numbers - how you got to the numbers, etc, etc, etc...and whether or not something is helpful or not.
But they understand the effect that well used CC/etc has on the group's ability to increase their DPS. They're not blindly reliant on a DPS parse. It's why it's fine to see some numbers in the parser, but it's also something to look at the raw parse itself so you can follow along, and even there it can be further helpful to have a video of the fight so you can see things that weren't in the parse. And with time, experience, etc - you learn what's going on behind the numbers - how you got to the numbers, etc, etc, etc...and whether or not something is helpful or not.
Ahhh, but you're describing a thoughtful Captain who may use DPS to refine the illing power of their build, but recognises DPS is not the be all and end all.
I figure they're not the problem.
If support role contributions could be quantified, in a way acccessible to players, we may convince some of those who like to measure their things.
Buff duration/positioning...and how time plays into that.
Unbuffed/lesser buffed damage is lesser damage.
Out of position damage - damage falloff - results in lesser damage.
It's a group effort to get those numbers - they're not solo numbers. Everybody does their part, things go well - somebody doesn't, they drag the rest down. Hell, it's not just those numbers - it's any group. Even the 4-9k folks will get dragged down by the 1-2k folks. If everybody's in a similar range, then the group can do better...if not, they won't.
Which is why some have argued for some form of gating for the Advanced and Elite...and it's how some can accuse even the 4-9k folks of being "Elitists" because they want to play with 4-9k folks and not have to try to cover the 1-2k folks.
I agree that in a true team effort, one low-DPS member can drag the others down. But let's consider real PUGs for a moment, where people are hardly playing as a team and each of them are just trying to DPS. In this case, each member's actions do not seem to interfere with their teammates that much. They're not applying team buffs or debuffing targets unless it within their own set of DPS tools, and even the most common debuffs (APB) won't stack anymore.
I PUG a lot, and my max DPS in ISE is 15K. I reach that maximum in most runs I do, and it's very often that I see a 1~2K DPS member around. These low numbers have never affected my top numbers. On the other hand, when a Scimi with 30K DPS potential is in my team, my DPS drops to around ~10K. And I think that if I weren't around, they would achieve more. With that perception I believe that the same principle of "DPS stealing" holds true for lower DPS builds.
Problem is, there's no objective way to measure anything except DPS.
Well, there probably is, but we don't have access to it.
After all, CC calculates more than just DPS to determine placing, but all the player used parsers (afaik) only measure DPS.
Wouldn't it be interesting if some parsers were created that measured, say, heals or holds?
Perhaps we'd have a new way of measuring epeen.
There isn't because it wan't built into the combat parser which leads to players thinking: "If I don;t see you doing anything in the parser, then you must not be contributing anything"
Power drains: Not in the parser.
Tachyon Beam, anti-proton sweep, and shield siphon: Are they even registered?
As we have seen in the livestreams, you seem to have a problem creating a good build with the right captain abilities, even if you have some of the most powerful ships in-game, like the faelth or the Xindi escort. These ships are extremely powerful... if well used.
So, in case you need help creating builds for your ships, don't hesitate to ask me by sending a tell at @giotariz.
Don't worry: i'm not saying you're not good at sto, maybe all you need is a good coach to help you get the best out of your build, skill tree etc.
As i said before, don't hesitate to ask me
yeah he ll ask you fpr the top 5 builds then NERF em so his is better, then challenge you to PvP and show u hwo wrong uwere
Power drains: Not in the parser.
Tachyon Beam, anti-proton sweep, and shield siphon: Are they even registered?
Last that I heard not even all weapons are. For instance, the Tholian Web Mines are not considered to be damage owned by the player that used them.
Back on the original topic of build advice, I was considering swapping my Debuffer Tricobalt Torpedo Boat for a Debuffer Plasma type. They won't shutdown the enemy like the Trics but they will add plasma fires. From a team standpoint would you all consider this to be better or worse? And would you consider the Adapted MACO set or the Reman Set to be the better fit?
Comments
That's a nice player participation idea right there.
Joined January 2009
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1237731
~CaptainSmirk
You should make a rainboat build...
Edit: put it in the wrong thread of course, fail on my part.
Hm, Am I the only one don't see a problem with this? That is the price for ease of access content that means that you should be playing with people of all skills and be acceptable to it? That is the price for having a pug.
sorry wrong post
Life is a long lesson in humility.
How do you know that the TRIBBLE was not made out of cake?
I would love to know how people pull off damage like that. I tend to play Debuffer / Healer with a Torpedo Boat. Being primarily a Support Ship, my personal numbers kinda bite.
That would be cool. I'd like to watch that.
Well, about the top 5-6% of STO players obviously. (Keep in mind those numbers are inherently over-estimating the ability relative to other players.)
True, true. My ship does spike damage and then nothing for a couple of seconds until the next volley of heavies gets there. So my DPS is averaged with some zeros each round. Which isn't to say that I am doing nothing during those gaps. I do my best to bottom out enemy power levels while tossing Teams and Hazard Emitters on rest of the group. Buuut everyone seems to only care about the DPS number. *shrug*
I think that I like your attitude.
My Main (Galaeanyss) runs the opposite end of the spectrum. She packs a mix of ES, TB, CPB, TR, APD on the Debuff side. One of each Team and an HE to Heal. She uses Torp Spreads and High Yields with Temporal Disruption Devices, Tricobalts, and BM Photons along with a set of Dispersal Patterned Tric and Chroniton Mines for damage and further debuffs. She has the Omega Shearing and Hot Pursuit Traits slotted for added utility.
When she hits baddies, they are not going anywhere and their shields are kept with hardly any regeneration rate.
I'm curious to see the calculations that lead to that assumption.
I know one person, the top DPSer, has a maximum potential that's proportional to the amount of enemies on screen and their remaining health. If someone is doing low DPS, it leaves more health for the top DPS to "consume".
As a more extreme example, a high DPSer soloing ISE will very likely hit their maximum threshold. I don't see how a Goldilocks principle affects this.
STO Screenshot Archive
After the first play-through what would be the point wasting your time fighting a ship that's exactly the same only it has 80 times the hull, so it takes all night?
Or, bare with me, this maybe a wild thought, he is showing that the game is......fun
Problem is, there's no objective way to measure anything except DPS.
Well, there probably is, but we don't have access to it.
After all, CC calculates more than just DPS to determine placing, but all the player used parsers (afaik) only measure DPS.
Wouldn't it be interesting if some parsers were created that measured, say, heals or holds?
Perhaps we'd have a new way of measuring epeen.
Buff duration/positioning...and how time plays into that.
Unbuffed/lesser buffed damage is lesser damage.
Out of position damage - damage falloff - results in lesser damage.
It's a group effort to get those numbers - they're not solo numbers. Everybody does their part, things go well - somebody doesn't, they drag the rest down. Hell, it's not just those numbers - it's any group. Even the 4-9k folks will get dragged down by the 1-2k folks. If everybody's in a similar range, then the group can do better...if not, they won't.
Which is why some have argued for some form of gating for the Advanced and Elite...and it's how some can accuse even the 4-9k folks of being "Elitists" because they want to play with 4-9k folks and not have to try to cover the 1-2k folks.
But they understand the effect that well used CC/etc has on the group's ability to increase their DPS. They're not blindly reliant on a DPS parse. It's why it's fine to see some numbers in the parser, but it's also something to look at the raw parse itself so you can follow along, and even there it can be further helpful to have a video of the fight so you can see things that weren't in the parse. And with time, experience, etc - you learn what's going on behind the numbers - how you got to the numbers, etc, etc, etc...and whether or not something is helpful or not.
Ahhh, but you're describing a thoughtful Captain who may use DPS to refine the illing power of their build, but recognises DPS is not the be all and end all.
I figure they're not the problem.
If support role contributions could be quantified, in a way acccessible to players, we may convince some of those who like to measure their things.
I agree that in a true team effort, one low-DPS member can drag the others down. But let's consider real PUGs for a moment, where people are hardly playing as a team and each of them are just trying to DPS. In this case, each member's actions do not seem to interfere with their teammates that much. They're not applying team buffs or debuffing targets unless it within their own set of DPS tools, and even the most common debuffs (APB) won't stack anymore.
I PUG a lot, and my max DPS in ISE is 15K. I reach that maximum in most runs I do, and it's very often that I see a 1~2K DPS member around. These low numbers have never affected my top numbers. On the other hand, when a Scimi with 30K DPS potential is in my team, my DPS drops to around ~10K. And I think that if I weren't around, they would achieve more. With that perception I believe that the same principle of "DPS stealing" holds true for lower DPS builds.
STO Screenshot Archive
There isn't because it wan't built into the combat parser which leads to players thinking: "If I don;t see you doing anything in the parser, then you must not be contributing anything"
Power drains: Not in the parser.
Tachyon Beam, anti-proton sweep, and shield siphon: Are they even registered?
yeah he ll ask you fpr the top 5 builds then NERF em so his is better, then challenge you to PvP and show u hwo wrong uwere
Last that I heard not even all weapons are. For instance, the Tholian Web Mines are not considered to be damage owned by the player that used them.
Back on the original topic of build advice, I was considering swapping my Debuffer Tricobalt Torpedo Boat for a Debuffer Plasma type. They won't shutdown the enemy like the Trics but they will add plasma fires. From a team standpoint would you all consider this to be better or worse? And would you consider the Adapted MACO set or the Reman Set to be the better fit?