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What happened to Klingon Science Guys with update 2 ?
hoipoloi
Member Posts: 43 Arc User
I've been playing with my KDF science toons in the hope that come update 2 I might find a science option: other than upgrading my current ships to Tu5,
you know what there is none! Feds get fantastic options Rom get fair ones.. KDF, am I missing something?
Guess none of my main KDF toons will be going to the Delta Quadrant which is a shame.
someone please prove me wrong!
you know what there is none! Feds get fantastic options Rom get fair ones.. KDF, am I missing something?
Guess none of my main KDF toons will be going to the Delta Quadrant which is a shame.
someone please prove me wrong!
Post edited by hoipoloi on
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Well, as always, Cryptic has shown its Fed faction bias.
I wouldn't say the Roms "get fair ones" in options.
Their Intel Warbird is yet ANOTHER TAC heavy ship. They already are spilling over on TAC heavy options that are *ALL* excellent. To top it off, it's yet another Warbird that comes in the Dhelan style (TAC-SCI slanted stations). My bet is the fleet version will bring it to 4 SCI Consoles.
Their Aehlal is funny, because their TAC heavy Warbirds can do essentially the same thing but have greater maneuverability and just as much ENG capability. But people want to fly a slower Warbird than something like the Ha'feh, Dhelan, Mogai, etc. I guess.
Anyways, both the Roms & KDF are short changed on T6 ships, intel or otherwise. Both are lacking in a SCI ship option, the KDF has no T6 BOP nor Carrier. The SCI option thing has been a sore point for both KDF & Roms, and it's something Roms are more vocal about than a Cruiser.
A Battlecruiser is the Intel Ship of choice for the KDF? Really? :eek:
Of course, I still believe that KDF Raiders ought to be the "go to" Science Ships and stealthy/sneaky Intel gathering types in the arsenal.
I was honestly expecting to see an updated B'rel evolution be the T6 Intel Ship for the KDF with a crew of 50 instead of 30. THAT would have made sense! But no ...
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
That ship would sell almost as well as BoP intel ship.
To be honest, only the Feds (ain't it always...) get somewhat fleshed out roster right from the beginning. The KDF and RR are both in the same situation with 2 new ships per faction and limited T6 options.
And I must say that while the lineup is not fleshed in ship profiles the 2 ships we got so far are great. I understand how as a science Captain that may not suffice for you, though.
I'm sure there will be something sciency at T6 eventually, but so far the best choice for a pure science ship would be the Korath Temporal Science Vessel if you happen to have one, it'll get a free T5-U upgrade. An upgraded Fleet Varanus being the second option and I don't really consider the DSDs a viable science options, even though people aparently like them. They just suck for my playstyle I guess.....but that's pretty much it. I only mentioned the Korath because it's a Klingon design and I haven't really followed other lockbox sci.ships since I have no interest in them.
But they've said you can do the story content and missions in Delta Rising even with a standart T5 ship without any issues, so take it as you will...
The weak spot is the KDF having almost no 5 sci console ship options. For the Romulans it's their power levels.
The science ship part is that for every 2 cruiser or escorts they dream up, they'll figure out 1 sci ship.
I do agree, when it comes to other faction ships, they seem to not want or care to build more ships.
They may not be as shiny as the Federation toys, but the Varanus and (A)DSD are solid science ships. Alternatively, there's also the Marauder, Fleet Corsair, Kar'fi, Mirror Vo'Quv, and Mirror Neghvar. (The latter two wont have T5U, but time will tell how important that actually is..)
Perhaps the better question is, what do you mean by 'science'? There are many ways to specialize in science and the KDF actually have some pretty nice options for some of them(especially for drain, heal-support, and exotic damage builds).
As for T6, certainly a valid point, but KDF is missing a lot of stuff for T6 still(carriers, raiders, FDCs, dedicated science). The Qib is marginally passable for an Exotic Damage Vacuum build - and the console would synergize somewhat with it.
I am guessing this will be a yearly thing though federation will advance, kdf and romulan republic will get hand outs they still have to buy that will be less quality than that of federation customer service. As well every fall of the year you can expect to upgrade your gear to the next level as well as a 10 level increase so if it lasts long enough you can be level 200 eventually. By then though your ship will be armed only with devices that can deliver gold pressed latinum thru old rusted torpedo launchers.
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The major problem with the DSD is that it forces you into a tac-heavy role (perhaps not inappropriate, it is a Destroyer after all). Build for that - fleet consoles for turn rate buffs, so you can actually use those DHCs, and either the Borg of KHG sets for defensive buffs - it's not too bad at all and the KHG shield makes it look properly Klingon. I've had a lot of fun running one on by Liberated Borg Sci.
Still - I can see that with DR and the much nastier NPCs therein, the inflexibility of the DSD could become an issue. Might be time to unbox that Korath and spend the 600 lobi sitting around...
You're welcome.
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It's got that coveted Cmdr Sci station w/otherwise tac heavy seating, 2 hanger bays, 4:3 weapons setup and 3-4 tac console slots (fleet), on top of 4 sci console slots.
Surprisingly it's also got the best turn rate of any carrier and a great shield modifier to offset some of the squishy.
I'd never PvP with it, but not being able to afford a Korath, it's pretty freakin' awesome.
Val-class Science Cruiser
Tier: 6
Hull: 30,000 (at 50) to 37,000 (at 60)
Shield Modifier: 1.1
Weapons: 4/3 (can equip dual cannons)
Crew: 500
Bridge Officers: Lt. Tac, Lt. Tac, LtC. Eng*, Cmdr. Sci, Lt. Universal
*(hybrid intel engineer?)
Consoles: 3 Tac, 2 Eng, 5 Sci (4/2/5 for fleet version)
Turn Rate: 12
Impulse: 0.16
Inertia Rating: 40
Bonus Power: +15 Aux
Abilities:
Cloak
Sensor analysis
Cannon Subsystem targeting
I based the stats off ships like the Fleet Kamarag, Qib, and Korath, but the basic idea is to take a ship like the Federation Recon Science Vessel, and make it more "Klingon" in its stats by giving it the ability to mount dual cannons, an extra weapon, and making subsytem targeting use cannons rather than beams. Admittedly there's probably some flaw in the balancing that I overlooked, but this is just a rough idea. What do you guys think?
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General J'Kar son of K'tsulan - I.K.S. Dlahath, Vo'devwl-class Carrier
DON'T YOU DARE !
That Korath is screaming to come home with ME, can't you hear it ?
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They sent what was repeatedly called a "science vessel" into the Gamma Quadrant.
When we saw it, however, it was clearly a Vorcha, and it had picked a fight with the Jem'hadar, so it's possible they were simply loopholing some regulation about what kind of missions Starfleet and/or Bajor was letting through.
Ofcoruse they do. We haven't seen one in canon simply because the stories we were following in Star Trek were ones about a Starfleet crew, while encounters with Klingons were usually either hostile or involved combat to underline the nature of the Klingon society as warrior-like. However, if you look objectively - a species can't forge an interstellar Empire without utilizing science, it's just impossible.
While what Klingons call a "science ship" could be quite different and even a well armed battlecruiser hull that is utilized and modified for full scientific purposes (in the I.K.S. Gorkon novels, the I.K.S. Gorkon is a Qang Class battlecruiser which is based on the Vor'cha Class basic hull but expanded upon with heavy science capabilities for exploration), they still have "science" ships because even conquest and expanding of an Empire must rely on science in the vastness of space.
Buy the Mat'Ha, rank her to Starship Mastery Level 5, and you gain the ability to throw (centered on your target rather than on yourself) mini versions of Charged Particle Burst and Photonic Shockwave using Beam: Overload and Torpedo: High Yield respectively. There's jack squat as far as a proper Science ship, but Overwhelming Force at least gives something for a Science character to use their science-y goodness on... but only with Tac powers. You might try out using some of the more science-y Intel boff powers available to the Qib's Commander Eng/Intel seat as well.
I'd suggest waiting until you have a chance to try the abilities out yourself on Tribble before deciding which ship to get, though.
I get that we never really saw a fleshed out Klingon race in the movies and shows...in my head canon I always assumed science-y stuff was handled by a servitor race they conquered.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
If you watch some of those Klingon lore episodes with Kern one could strongly say he was more of a science officer in the way he used tactics to destroy his enemies. Then there are those like Martok who bring ppl worf serves with and they give him all the specifics then he says tactical type general do whatever it was you just said lol.
As far as with this expansion they are getting the raptor in and such but I am not even sure at this point it even matters since a month or so after DR most likely the feds will get something that outclasses that ship. I was just hoping for more science ships or improvements on bops but that is never going to happen.
The new SA isn't enough for me to complain, either.
*Shrug* If you want to feel slighted just because the numbers aren't more even, then that is your perogative, but to say the KDF is being gimped because they lack science options... IMO they have superior science options.
Sci ships need some major help. Secondary Deflectors are going to need to be godly to make up for 2 hangar bays.
Edit: And I didn't even bring up BoP's... Sci BoP's are a thing of beauty.
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But the fact remains that the KDF really do need more Science Ships in our ship lineup...
I think ingame wise indigenous KDF designs such as Raiders, Raptors and Battle Cruisers should primary Klingon based... As for more new Science Ships for the KDF. i think it's best for KDF-Align/Captured alien ships to take that roles such as newer Gorn ships with their Science-Engineering Ship builds and the KDF captured/copied Fek'Ihri ships with Science-Tactical builds.
While all you said is basically correct, you have to consider that there are science players that prefer a pure science ship for many subjective and objective reasons. Sure, they can use non-specialized science leaning ships, but that doesn't quite cut it for a lot of people - especially dedicated PvP sci min-maxers. There's a reason that the ships being considered the best science ships in game a pure sci ships. Plus some people despise pets and hangars, like me.
And since there is a science career track offered for the KDF and RR factions as well, then there should be a sufficient supply of pure science ships for that career track, sufficient here not meaning "one" as it is now.
For ex. I use the Varanus on my main KDF sci. It's on the base level of the DSSV only has +1 turn I believe for reduced shield mod. in comparison. It's not in the "top dog" league of science ships, especially with newer Fed and lockbox aditions. But it's the only choice of pure sci ship I have on the KDF side. That's too little for an entire career track. Romulans are in the same situation as well.
Yeah originally our bops were supposed to be our counterpart to the federation science ships but they basically abandoned all development into bops. So just another nail in our KDF faction I poked around a bit on tribble but nothing seemed to stick out that interests me with this new expansion.
That really is what I'd expect of a KDF science vessel - less sci oriented than its Fed counterparts but with better overall combat abilities. Unforrtunately it's a hybrid approach that appears unwanted in game.