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i love the guardian

davideightdavideight Member Posts: 460 Arc User
edited November 2014 in Federation Discussion
after all my critic towards the intel ships i want to give some positive feedback to pw/cryptic designers.


i really love the guardian. the stats and seatings are versatile enough to be be a real post-next gen workhorse cruiser and i love that.

and also i think the ship looks like a really well done mixture of galaxy and ambassador. some suggested some flattening on its overall shape, but i must say its quite good like it is. (i had preferred a more broad saucer maybe (not the egg-shape), but it all looks quite appealing to me)

i also like the nacelle design and the neck and the deflector dish.

i was a bit confused about the "aux nacelles" (thought those were just impulse drives like intrepid ones ^^) but i like the idea, though i was suprised and still question its usefulness, (casue everything hitting the primary nacelle will also impact the sec one i think but ... nice visual gimmic ^^)

so good job. more of this i hope will arrive over the time with delta. still waiting for a "miranda" frigate all universal brel counter to make kdf players cry even more. andor a nebula guardian variant!!! ^^
Post edited by davideight on
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Comments

  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    The Guardian seems like a really good ship.. unfortunately, I don't think I can buy one.

    Why? Because in the announcement they say that there will soon be a fleet version. Great, but what they don't say is rather or not buying the C-Store version at release will lower the Module Cost on the fleet version later on.

    Now, it should since this is how it usually works, but unless they say for sure then I am extremely hesitant to purchase this ship. I'm afraid I'll pay $25-$30 for it and then 2 months later there will be a Fleet Version that will cost another $20-$25.

    Anyone seen any confirmation of Module discount on the Guardian?
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • dknight0001dknight0001 Member Posts: 1,542
    edited September 2014
    It would be nuts to change how the Fleet system worked now. My fear is that all T6 ships will need a T6 Shipyard.
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  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,008 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I'm really not impressed. Actually I liked the concept art way better than the ingame version and stats wise it's just another default tac heavy cruiser to cater to more dps race content. Yawn.

    Especially the "fluff text" is somewhat rage inducing. Everything they claim that is achieved with this ship Starfleet already has lots and lots of ships for. It makes no sense, at all.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • emacsheadroomemacsheadroom Member Posts: 994 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    angrytarg wrote: »
    stats wise it's just another default tac heavy cruiser to cater to more dps race content. Yawn.

    Stats wise the Guardian is just as sci heavy as it is tac heavy. It's effectively a "do everything" cruiser.
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Stats wise the Guardian is just as sci heavy as it is tac heavy. It's effectively a "do everything" cruiser.
    Yeah, I have to agree here. The Guardian has Lt. Commander Tac and Sci Consoles - and with an Ensign Universal that can go either way. It is an extremely versatile Cruiser - one of the most versatile in the game.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,008 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Stats wise the Guardian is just as sci heavy as it is tac heavy. It's effectively a "do everything" cruiser.

    True, I wanted to come back and edit but forgot about it :D

    It is really what a Starfleet cruiser should look like - it's just insulting that it needs a T6 ship to get that layout when they are canon and other Cryptic creations in game which should have the exact same mission profile.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • adverberoadverbero Member Posts: 2,045 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    One aspect about it I really like, It has a Galaxy ish feel to it BUT without the excessively wide Saucer, On the Guardian the Nacelles and Saucer rim are balanced more along the proportions of the Soveriegn which I like

    I know most Trek Federation ships have the saucer wider than the Nacelle's but the Galaxy took it too far.

    Some people may prefer these broad saucers, but I find them odd, considering its rather anomalous in Sci fi to have a Space faring vehicle wider at the front than the back
    solar_approach_by_chaos_sandwhich-d74kjft.png


    These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    angrytarg wrote: »
    True, I wanted to come back and edit but forgot about it :D

    It is really what a Starfleet cruiser should look like - it's just insulting that it needs a T6 ship to get that layout when they are canon and other Cryptic creations in game which should have the exact same mission profile.

    Heck, name a Starfleet Cruiser that does not have this statement as part of its design brief. They all do, every single one of them:

    "Starfleet's Guardian Cruiser was designed to be a very versatile starship capable of accomplishing nearly any classification of mission."
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,008 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    cbrjwrr wrote: »
    Heck, name a Starfleet Cruiser that does not have this statement as part of its design brief. They all do, every single one of them:

    "Starfleet's Guardian Cruiser was designed to be a very versatile starship capable of accomplishing nearly any classification of mission."

    Since Starfleet cruisers are supposed to be just like that they all have it in their descriptions - yet almost none of them has a in-game layout reflecting that :D
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • tieberionetieberione Member Posts: 137 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I'll Probably Upgrade and stick with my Fleet Excellsior. With some of the R&D upgrades, Rep, and how you trait your Captain Skills, She's still one of the toughest boats out there.
    Tieberion, Captain of the USS Excalibur NX-97000-B

  • foxman00foxman00 Member Posts: 1,511 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I have to admit the Guardian Cruiser looks to be, as scotty would most likely say "A fine Lass :) "

    Nice Stats, and a good all round cruiser. While I wont get one myself, it will be a honour to fight alongside one in my Fleet Assault cruiser :)
    pjxgwS8.jpg
  • lan451lan451 Member Posts: 3,386 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I want this ship so bad that I can't bring myself to fly any of my other ships in the meantime. Blergh. Only a few weeks left though. :P
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I'm going to hold out for the Fleet Version in hopes that it's 11th console will be another Tactical.

    Only then will it be able to replace my trusty Fleet Assault Cruiser. :D
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  • davideightdavideight Member Posts: 460 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    its more likely it will have a 4rth sci or most likely a 5th eng console, because its clearly not meant as offense cruiser like attackC or galX (and because those players would rant a lot)

    and i must say, many or more tac consoles arent really needed for a sucessful tac-cruiser. its more about having access to t-spread, tacteam, faw and beta simultaneously and in highest possible rank. cause one console is just about 30% basedmg more, wich isnt much when you maxed out skills. its basically the same. higher rank of a skill is = one console more for that thing (spread1+3torpconsoles = spread2+2torp consoles)
  • mandarsmashmandarsmash Member Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    davideight wrote: »
    its more likely it will have a 4rth sci or most likely a 5th eng console, because its clearly not meant as offense cruiser like attackC or galX (and because those players would rant a lot)

    and i must say, many or more tac consoles arent really needed for a sucessful tac-cruiser. its more about having access to t-spread, tacteam, faw and beta simultaneously and in highest possible rank. cause one console is just about 30% basedmg more, wich isnt much when you maxed out skills. its basically the same. higher rank of a skill is = one console more for that thing (spread1+3torpconsoles = spread2+2torp consoles)

    Agreed. Chances for the Guardian Cruiser to get another Tac console are slim to none.

    Likely, there will be a Fleet Module discount for those who own the C-Store (Z-Store?) version as there has been in the past, though there's no official word.
  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    now we all know why they didnt upgrade Galaxy for the rebundle
  • adverberoadverbero Member Posts: 2,045 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    now we all know why they didnt upgrade Galaxy for the rebundle

    Thats ferengi thinking for you, why fix a broken product when the customer will buy a new one
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    These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
  • oneratsonerats Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I'm not impressed at all. It looks to be inferior to a fleet sovereign, and I'm not even talking about the T5-U version. It traded a tactical console for a science console (a huge downgrade) swapped the ensign tactical for a universal tactical (a definite upgrade, though minor) and changed out the lieutenant universal for a lieutenant commander science (mixed feelings on this one). In all it's more of a jack of all trades cruiser, which means it excels at nothing.

    I say mixed feelings on the lieutenant commander science for several reasons. While it's great that it gains an extra Boff power, science powers are generally not all that helpful in cruiser builds because they tend to run Aux2Batt to be competitive in DPS. This means science powers tend to be very weak. While I do run a science Boff in my fleet sovereign's lieutenant universal slot, I do so mainly because I've no use for anything else and the science abilities are at least worth something - however minor. This cruiser would be much more exciting if it had four tactical consoles and if the LC Science slot was a LC Universal. Then you could sacrifice science powers altogether for intelligence powers in the Eng/Intel slot while still maintaining both C/LC engineering powers. I'm not sure the Intel powers would be worth it, but at least it would be an option that would make the cruiser somewhat more interesting.

    As is, this cruiser just looks inferior to what we've already got.. and T5-U will only make it more so. In all, even a fleet guardian (assuming it will gain a 5th engineering console, as most T5 cruisers that don't have one have gained one going to T5-U) doesn't seem to compare to a Fleet T5-U Assault Cruiser Refit.

    Edit: After a second look at the stats I also notice that it has a slower turn rate and higher inertia. Thus, it's less maneuverable than our current cruisers as well. In addition, it only has a shield modifier of 1 - another clear downgrade from any current fleet ship (though admittedly the fleet guardian should close this particular gap).
  • ddesjardinsddesjardins Member Posts: 3,056 Media Corps
    edited September 2014
    The Guardian seems like a really good ship.. unfortunately, I don't think I can buy one.

    Why? Because in the announcement they say that there will soon be a fleet version. Great, but what they don't say is rather or not buying the C-Store version at release will lower the Module Cost on the fleet version later on.

    Now, it should since this is how it usually works, but unless they say for sure then I am extremely hesitant to purchase this ship. I'm afraid I'll pay $25-$30 for it and then 2 months later there will be a Fleet Version that will cost another $20-$25.

    Anyone seen any confirmation of Module discount on the Guardian?

    It's unlikely they will change the module discount at this stage for fleet ships. I am very confident that you'll get the discount ;)
  • jer5488jer5488 Member Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    She might not be the most tac-heavy cruiser, but she has the things I've been wanting. A build that can be highly, highly customizable. Enough tac consoles and stations that she doesn't feel like a toothless old nag, and engineering stations that don't have a third useless ensign.

    She looks really good (in my opinion), and the only thing I would change is giving her longer phaser arrays on the saucer. From the views I've seen - she doesn't have very good fore coverage. That being said, I've already decided I want this as my flagship from now on, and considering we're ranking up to Fleet Admiral, any ship we're parked in is a flagship.

    I for one can't wait for the Guardian.
  • davideightdavideight Member Posts: 460 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    but it has a lt eng/intel, which gives you the opportunity to cleanse the intel debuff and getting less disabled statuses and less torps beamed abord your pretty ship. i bet the new enemies in delta will use this heavily ,-)

    its like a wow paladin, can do anything, cant do anything as good as the full classes ;-)
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    davideight wrote: »
    and i must say, many or more tac consoles arent really needed for a sucessful tac-cruiser. its more about having access to t-spread, tacteam, faw and beta simultaneously and in highest possible rank. cause one console is just about 30% basedmg more, wich isnt much when you maxed out skills. its basically the same. higher rank of a skill is = one console more for that thing (spread1+3torpconsoles = spread2+2torp consoles)


    I see your point here, but in comparison to my current ship (Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit) they are the same tactical bridge layout (assuming you use the Guardian Ensign Universal as a Tactical Station) but the Assault Cruiser has the extra console. Meaning you get the same tactical BoFF powers for both ships, but my current ship also has the extra Tac console. In this case the extra 30% Base Damage can really add up. The Guardian can't make up for the difference with superior BoFF layout. Since I personally prefer a more tactically oriented Cruiser, the Guardian is slightly lackluster to me. It has better Science then my current vessel, but considering I run an Aux2Bat Build the extra Science Abilities do me little good. I don't use many Science Powers due to always having low Aux Power. It's just personal preference, I prefer a more offensive style Cruiser and the Guardian doesn't fit that role as well as my current ship. It's as others have said, it's 'well rounded' but doesn't excel in any one area.
    It's unlikely they will change the module discount at this stage for fleet ships. I am very confident that you'll get the discount ;)

    I'm sure you're probably right, but I'm hesitant to buy any T6 C-Store Ship unless they actually confirm that the module discount will still apply once the Fleet version comes out. More then likely it will, I'm just a little hesitant to purchase a C-Store ship without confirmation that I'll be able to get the module discount once the Fleet Versions come out.
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  • variant37variant37 Member Posts: 867 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    adverbero wrote: »
    Thats ferengi thinking for you, why fix a broken product when the customer will buy a new one

    Not only that, but buy it twice! Plenty of hardcore Galaxy fans who bought the "do over" Galaxy rebundle because it was better than nothing will also buy the Guardian.

    I swear this must be the CEO of PWE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKZhCDbKNCs
  • gpgtxgpgtx Member Posts: 1,579 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    hardcore galaxy fans already had the "reboot" bundle. they just got a hanger on there dreadnought
    victoriasig_zps23c45368.jpg
  • cptrichardson12cptrichardson12 Member Posts: 143 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    After time play-testing the new expansion, I have to say that the Guardian will be EXTREMELY useful out there. Its officer compliment is exactly what is needed to survive some of the new threats, and yes, it could use a little extra speed. But against the storyline big bad forces, it has exactly the right officers in exactly the right combination to survive. If the rumored Saucer sep comes out with it like Cryptic suggests, then it will be the perfect non-intel starfleet cruiser for delta quadrant operations, with an Ambassador in fleet configuration being your best second bet, and an Avenger in a distant third.
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    people are stating the ship is perfect and excellent, i cant claim anything towards that end because ive never flown the ship found out its strengths or weaknesses and such, i wouldnt presume to know what i dont know.

    as far as the ships outward look is concerned, frankly dont care, one ship is the same as another.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
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  • capnmanxcapnmanx Member Posts: 1,452 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    The Guardian just proves to me once and for all that I'm never happy. ;)

    It's beautiful, and its Boff layout is fantastic; but it's too much of a hero ship for me. You could very easily imagine the name 'Enterprise' painted on its hull; and I'm not comfortable with that.

    More than anything, I just wish they'd apply the same artistic style to the Eclipse; because it's harder to imagine Picard flying one of those.

    I probably will end up with the Guardian, because I don't like the angles and edges of the Intel ships; but I'm always going to be looking for a smaller and less glamorous alternative (and then probably hating said alternative for its comparatively rubbish Boff setup; like I said, never happy :P).
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 3,008 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    capnmanx wrote: »
    The Guardian just proves to me once and for all that I'm never happy. ;)

    It's beautiful, and its Boff layout is fantastic; but it's too much of a hero ship for me. You could very easily imagine the name 'Enterprise' painted on its hull; and I'm not comfortable with that.

    More than anything, I just wish they'd apply the same artistic style to the Eclipse; because it's harder to imagine Picard flying one of those.

    I probably will end up with the Guardian, because I don't like the angles and edges of the Intel ships; but I'm always going to be looking for a smaller and less glamorous alternative (and then probably hating said alternative for its comparatively rubbish Boff setup; like I said, never happy :P).

    The Intell ships are not meant to be 'hero' ships driven by Picard...which is why they look the way they do.
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  • oneratsonerats Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I see your point here, but in comparison to my current ship (Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit) they are the same tactical bridge layout (assuming you use the Guardian Ensign Universal as a Tactical Station) but the Assault Cruiser has the extra console. Meaning you get the same tactical BoFF powers for both ships, but my current ship also has the extra Tac console. In this case the extra 30% Base Damage can really add up. The Guardian can't make up for the difference with superior BoFF layout. Since I personally prefer a more tactically oriented Cruiser, the Guardian is slightly lackluster to me. It has better Science then my current vessel, but considering I run an Aux2Bat Build the extra Science Abilities do me little good. I don't use many Science Powers due to always having low Aux Power. It's just personal preference, I prefer a more offensive style Cruiser and the Guardian doesn't fit that role as well as my current ship. It's as others have said, it's 'well rounded' but doesn't excel in any one area.

    Hit the nail on the head here. This ship is quite simply put inferior to several current Fleet T5 cruisers, and will definitely be inferior to their T5-U version. Even a Fleet T6 Guardian will likely be inferior to a Fleet T5-U Assault Cruiser or Excelsior.
  • mandarsmashmandarsmash Member Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    onerats wrote: »
    Hit the nail on the head here. This ship is quite simply put inferior to several current Fleet T5 cruisers, and will definitely be inferior to their T5-U version. Even a Fleet T6 Guardian will likely be inferior to a Fleet T5-U Assault Cruiser or Excelsior.

    The Devs seem adament that the T6 ships aren't meant to be head and shoulders above T5-U ships. There are people, like myself, who look forward to have a decent looking jack-of-all-trades cruiser like the Guardian looks to be. There are others who are just looking for the best DPS. I don't think it's fair to believe that a T6 should automatically out-gun a T5-U ship. That's just not how this was all planned out. T6 doesn't look to be designed around DPS at all. After all, they're not getting extra weapons slots, very few are getting a large number of Tac Console slots, and pretty much everyone T5 and higher can slot Mk XIV gear anyway, which is the only other deciding DPS factor.

    I think the whole point of the designs is that if you want some new toys, here you go. If you're happy with the ships you've got, the T5-U upgrade is going to make things automatically better. Just upgrading to T5-U gives an extra 15% hull, scaling up to 33% hull at level 60. That's huge. But DPS? Some mastery passives will affect that, but the passives are the same regardless of T5-U or T6. They only vary by ship category (Escort, Cruiser, Science).

    So, "inferior" is an oversimplification. In pure DPS? Sure. But I'd like to think there are many ways to both have fun and still be at least highly competitive outside of "highest DPS."
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