The advanced queue is not impossibly difficult, it is infact fairly simple but it does require situational awareness and teamwork. your typical "mah playstyle 3k is sufficient" pug will have a rough time with Advanced, and in truth, will probably have a rough time with the Normal version as well.
The vocal minority of the playerbase that spends the most time ******** on the forums seriously needs to get over their Martyr's Syndrome and Entitlement issues. There will be 3 different difficulty levels to cater to all the different competencies of players.
if you are a casual player that cannot get over 6k DPS then should stick to the Normal queues; Advanced and Elite is not for you. Since S8 any class of captain in any T5 ship can easily get to 10k DPS as a fresh level 50 with green and blue MK10-12 gear. save the "mah playstyle" excuses for the single player missions, once you join a team event you have to produce and be a contributing member of the team.
The problem is the very limited definition of "contributing" these days.
As even you point out below, it basically revolves around DPS.
no more 3k DPS "healers" who only heal themselves. No more 6k DPS "tanks" that can survive everything an ESTF can throw at them but can't do enough DPS to generate any threat. no more DPSers who do less than 10-15k DPS. The difficulty of STO is going to be increasing with DR, powercreep will mitigate some of that but it's up to the players to actually improve.
If you refuse to learn and improve then you are a noob. that is the very definition of what a noob is.
If you don't want to improve and be a better player, then don't bemoan and ridicule the players who do want more challenge from the game. This is probably one of the more despicable forms of elitism.
you are not entitled to jump into the advanced and elite queues if you are not ready for them. You are not entitled to scream "Elitism!" just because you refuse to prepare for the harder difficulties.
Sure, the "difficulty" is increasing, as in larger hit point bags and no-longer-optional timers.
As in "bring even more DPS than before."
Also, the vast majority of what I've quoted here is the exact kind of toxic **** I've come to expect when game design heads this direction.
We wanted to complete the final optional (kill 3 dreads in 1 min) before it gets nerfed.
Most of the guys where undergeared with MK12 gear, no captain specs, no 9 trait, etc...
The ships we where flying aren't important as the captains that where piloting them.
Currently on tribble the rewards for the Normal and Advanced version of this queue are exactly the same.
Failing to kill the 3 dreads within 1 minute will not fail the mission.
Failing to kill the dreads in 4 minutes will also not fail the mission, you will still get credit (marks) for all the points your team has accumulated up to that point.
The advanced queue is not impossibly difficult, it is infact fairly simple but it does require situational awareness and teamwork. your typical "mah playstyle 3k is sufficient" pug will have a rough time with Advanced, and in truth, will probably have a rough time with the Normal version as well.
The vocal minority of the playerbase that spends the most time ******** on the forums seriously needs to get over their Martyr's Syndrome and Entitlement issues. There will be 3 different difficulty levels to cater to all the different competencies of players.
if you are a casual player that cannot get over 6k DPS then should stick to the Normal queues; Advanced and Elite is not for you. Since S8 any class of captain in any T5 ship can easily get to 10k DPS as a fresh level 50 with green and blue MK10-12 gear. save the "mah playstyle" excuses for the single player missions, once you join a team event you have to produce and be a contributing member of the team.
no more 3k DPS "healers" who only heal themselves. No more 6k DPS "tanks" that can survive everything an ESTF can throw at them but can't do enough DPS to generate any threat. no more DPSers who do less than 10-15k DPS. The difficulty of STO is going to be increasing with DR, powercreep will mitigate some of that but it's up to the players to actually improve.
If you refuse to learn and improve then you are a noob. that is the very definition of what a noob is.
If you don't want to improve and be a better player, then don't bemoan and ridicule the players who do want more challenge from the game. This is probably one of the more despicable forms of elitism.
you are not entitled to jump into the advanced and elite queues if you are not ready for them. You are not entitled to scream "Elitism!" just because you refuse to prepare for the harder difficulties.
Hooah! :cool: I have the same thinking.... I spent a lot of time optimizing my builds and learning runs and developing and testing strategy then training people. You see to me such actions are the biggest part of the game in my not so humble opinion.
Shoot just last week I commented to a fleet member that my last NWS run was so easy that even my big huge lag issue recently was no impediment to it as I was very worried I would hinder or even cripple the team (yes we were all from the private Elite channel) but it was a milk run. The discussion came after he has wiped numerous times with teams from the public elite channel. My point being there are many different types of players and the devs should try to provide challenging content for all of them if possible and the people that was face-roll content should simply stop the bitcin' about real "elite", type of activities.
Not everyone gets to see where the Iron crosses grow...
If you are looking for an excellent PvE fleet consider: Omega Combat Division today.
Former member of the Cryptic Family & FriendsTesting Team. Sadly, one day, it simply vanished - without a word or trace...
if you are a casual player that cannot get over 6k DPS then should stick to the Normal queues; Advanced and Elite is not for you. Since S8 any class of captain in any T5 ship can easily get to 10k DPS as a fresh level 50 with green and blue MK10-12 gear. save the "mah playstyle" excuses for the single player missions, once you join a team event you have to produce and be a contributing member of the team.
no more 3k DPS "healers" who only heal themselves. No more 6k DPS "tanks" that can survive everything an ESTF can throw at them but can't do enough DPS to generate any threat. no more DPSers who do less than 10-15k DPS. The difficulty of STO is going to be increasing with DR, powercreep will mitigate some of that but it's up to the players to actually improve.
If you refuse to learn and improve then you are a noob. that is the very definition of what a noob is.
To the devs, this is the type of "teamwork" you foster by raising the difficulty simply by adding more hitpoints to NPCs which results in people just simply hiking their DPS. It's elitism at its best. Making elite content a simple matter of just building a ship to throw as much DPS as possible is dumbing down the game to spacebar smashing.
As to the person who posted this, your attitude will not make you any friends. Us "forum posters" know very well how to build a DPS boat. We don't all strive to build a boat where the "fun" comes down to blowing everything we see up in seconds.
The problem is the very limited definition of "contributing" these days.
As even you point out below, it basically revolves around DPS.
Sure, the "difficulty" is increasing, as in larger hit point bags and no-longer-optional timers.
As in "bring even more DPS than before."
Also, the vast majority of what I've quoted here is the exact kind of toxic **** I've come to expect when game design heads this direction.
What he said was "you have to contribute some amount of dps to the team". I, for one, only fly engi's. I have one that's a tank, and never parses below 15k, because you have to dps to get aggro. I have one, a healer, that's always at or above 10k dps, because the 0 damage healers are for PvP, and again, some contribution to ending the mission and getting your reward is expected. I have one that's in a science vessel (fleet nebula), and uses entirely torpedos (except for the omni-ap beam for targeting), and still gets 10k. Why?
Because a logical, reasonably built ship flown by a halfway competent pilot will get at least 10k, every time.
I mean, I have an engi getting 10k in a Nebula with torpedos, for christ's sake. And it is nowhere near decked out in gear - nearly all of it's sub 200k ec from the exchange.
And if you think the OP's happy, reasonable, posts, talking about the team contributions required in a team queue is "Toxic ****", I advise you to reconsider who's being toxic.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
I think the fear is that people get pressed into builds and ships they don't enjoy just to be able to complete the content.
Still I think the new tribble que for delta quadrant is already designed with the new rules in mind, so current optionals should stay optional. I think.
I asking but I think the three capt ship at the end need a HP nerf in Adv mode as not everyone well have "30k" dps build(hell "20k" be high too) and I think The NEW Elite should have the HP we seen in the video. I see it like this....
As has been pointed out, even though "Advanced" queues scale everyone down to 50, we are still going to be a hell of a lot stronger in T6 ships and Mk 14 gear than we are now. I'm not super worried about the Advanced queues being too hard. We can consider Disconnected to maybe be on par with Hive. Classic Infected, Cure and Khitomer will still be easily passable. How often do you fail the current optionals anyway? Add in the above mentioned power increases, and it'll be cake even for casuals to finish the "Advanced" queues.
Now, whether you can clear them with all the new fancy optionals like the OP here did, that's another question. But, optionals were always intended to be an extra reward for exceptional performance, not a guarantee. We all just got spoiled because we had outgrown the current elite difficulty.
What he said was "you have to contribute some amount of dps to the team". I, for one, only fly engi's. I have one that's a tank, and never parses below 15k, because you have to dps to get aggro. I have one, a healer, that's always at or above 10k dps, because the 0 damage healers are for PvP, and again, some contribution to ending the mission and getting your reward is expected. I have one that's in a science vessel (fleet nebula), and uses entirely torpedos (except for the omni-ap beam for targeting), and still gets 10k. Why?
Because a logical, reasonably built ship flown by a halfway competent pilot will get at least 10k, every time.
I mean, I have an engi getting 10k in a Nebula with torpedos, for christ's sake. And it is nowhere near decked out in gear - nearly all of it's sub 200k ec from the exchange.
And if you think the OP's happy, reasonable, posts, talking about the team contributions required in a team queue is "Toxic ****", I advise you to reconsider who's being toxic.
Your responses miss my point entirely.
You're actually helping make my point, really.
Responding by telling me you can cram DPS into almost any ship as if that's the one and only metric that should ever matter.
Uh typo and this is supposed to be elite not advanced?
I've gotten the full advanced optionals with pugs multiple time on tribble so I cant see this really being about advanced?
It's not a typo. This is the Advanced queue. You're running the Normal queue on Tribble if you are getting all the optionals with a pug group. There is no way a pug group got the final optional in Advanced.
Nope....pugs can do the advanced optional quite easy if said pug contains 2 particle manipulator ships (especially with lulzy iso cannon spam)....and also it doesn't require leaving the voth ship at 3% to cheese the timer, just stomp through all 3. As I've said multiple times int he pvp forum, faw/csv are not the best way to get that optional.
Nope....pugs can do the advanced optional quite easy if said pug contains 2 particle manipulator ships (especially with lulzy iso cannon spam)....and also it doesn't require leaving the voth ship at 3% to cheese the timer, just stomp through all 3. As I've said multiple times int he pvp forum, faw/csv are not the best way to get that optional.
I like to see a pug do this so post Screen shots or video it if you can with poof it Adv mode.
Uh, every pug advanced I've done was with 1 other panda learning the stf so we can stomp elite once we have one more person over on tribble set up for it.
I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but this is the equal of an elite stf on holodeck with a really tight timer on the 3 ships. PM Ships take chunks off the citadel ship hull. You guys are dropping it at a steady 1% at a time. 5 PM ships can snooze through advanced without ever caring. Again, faw/csv are not the "fast way" to kill the last 3 mobs.
I was honestly hoping this was elite, as someone would have been doing what Pandas are currently trying to do on test server. I'm honestly confused theres a post over advanced.
Uh, every pug advanced I've done was with 1 other panda learning the stf so we can stomp elite once we have one more person over on tribble set up for it.
I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but this is the equal of an elite stf on holodeck with a really tight timer on the 3 ships. PM Ships take chunks off the citadel ship hull. You guys are dropping it at a steady 1% at a time. 5 PM ships can snooze through advanced without ever caring. Again, faw/csv are not the "fast way" to kill the last 3 mobs.
I was honestly hoping this was elite, as someone would have been doing what Pandas are currently trying to do on test server. I'm honestly confused theres a post over advanced.
Saw the pic of your ship, you're level 60 with 100% Epic gear.
Saw the pic of your ship, you're level 60 with 100% Epic gear.
GG
And a MK 12 Vrare faw boat will still put out more sustained dps than my wells. The way the damage is done is what makes PM faster, even without fully upgraded gear. If we're gonna argue about gear, mk 12 urare vs mk14 epic is 44 particle generators. Absolutely game breaking difference in TBR's damage with 44 particle generators :rolleyes:
Trick is, don't worry about shields and go straight to hull. Right now with all the Sci traits floating about (conservation of energy, particle manipulator etc.), Scis do direct to hull damage better than Tacs (Tacs can still spike better).
Once the normal part of the run is done, drag all three "Boss" ships together, and recipe is as follows:
Sensor stack the target first.
Quantum Singularity manipulation (Rom T5 ability) + Sensor Scan + GW3 (2k/tic with max hit of 7k)+ Repulsors 2 (6k/tic with max hit of 20k) + ISO cannon (1 hit 40k) + Proton barrage (1 hit 10k) + Torp spread 2 (1 hit 2k with gravametric rift 3.5k/tic) + Warp plasma 1 (1.5k/tic) + Iso Charge with max hit of 212k = Chunks of hull ripping off.
You can hit all that in less than 8 secs (Duration of quantum manipulation)....
thats what 1 ship can do. We had 2 ships going at it. Now imagine 5 of this build. No need for dedicated debuffers and damage dealers.
SNB the Hazards on the Undine and FBP on Borg.
PS, the ISO Cannon is the new set power.
Scis have never been as powerful as this in in STO.
Ironically i was going to switch to a TBR build Palisade if that last run hadn't worked.
So what your saying is ganker science builds will out perform DPS builds for this STF? you shouldn't be talking like that on these forums, folks might get upset you derailed their anti-Elitist DPS vitriol.
edit: i have a 25k PvE Tactical Palisade build that i think i will be testing out soon
Ironically i was going to switch to a TBR build Palisade if that last run hadn't worked.
So what your saying is ganker science builds will out perform DPS builds for this STF? you shouldn't be talking like that on these forums, folks might get upset you derailed their anti-Elitist DPS vitriol.
edit: i have a 25k PvE Tactical Palisade build that i think i will be testing out soon
Not outperform but negate the DPS required to destroy the shields before you get to the hull. That's where the biggest advantage kicks in.
PS, can you tell i'm bored with STO PvP right now? :P
Ironically i was going to switch to a TBR build Palisade if that last run hadn't worked.
So what your saying is ganker science builds will out perform DPS builds for this STF? you shouldn't be talking like that on these forums, folks might get upset you derailed their anti-Elitist DPS vitriol.
Sci bs is basically the way to go on the end optional. Its utterly hysterical to watch. Our usual run with just two PM ships for "training" for elite, the voth ship goes 99% > 80% > 34% > boom, on advanced. As soon as thats dead, any wells TIF up and Iso cannon the undine ship (which will be so low on hull at this point 2 wells can destroy it). And you have basically 80% of the timer to deal with the borg queen, whos already been hit by all this spam a decent bit (her flight path sometimes goes headless chicken to "strategically" dodge I swear). Youll have a third Iso cannon shot on a wells if you did it right before the timer ends (would be 4-5 on holodeck due to the t5u vs tipler bug).
The only coordination involved when using sci ships is making sure you stack the voth ship to 6 before you go nuts, nuke hazards asap (not that it really matters with enough iso cannon spam), and 6 stack the borg queen while you finish the undine.
We've done this a few times on normal just for fun. Iso cannon 1 shots every single mob it hits pre boss wave, and it only takes 1 rotation to kill everything vs 2-3 depending on the skill on advanced. WTB one more person for elite spam
And yes, Pandas are so bored we've become pve heros on the test server :mad:
Not outperform but negate the DPS required to destroy the shields before you get to the hull. Thats where the biggest advantage kicks in.
which amounts to the same thing. the big question we had was how do we get around the massive amount of shields the dreads have. for that last run our solution was staggered BeamOverload + Pen Doffs. the other things we had considered where weapons like ProtPol and BioMs, science ships with Tykens, TBR, Gravwell, etc...
we were basically trying out different things since we had already concluded that a pure FAW setup was not going to work. *note the Scimis in the group where all running CRF for burst. I was running FAW on my Narcine because i was aggroing.
And yes, Pandas are so bored we've become pve heros on the test server :mad:
I'm cheaper than a 2bit hoo... um, yeah let me set my Pali when Tribble comes back up and i'll join you guys. It's not like a Viper would be shy about BS sci spam
Comments
The problem is the very limited definition of "contributing" these days.
As even you point out below, it basically revolves around DPS.
Sure, the "difficulty" is increasing, as in larger hit point bags and no-longer-optional timers.
As in "bring even more DPS than before."
Also, the vast majority of what I've quoted here is the exact kind of toxic **** I've come to expect when game design heads this direction.
Hooah! :cool: I have the same thinking.... I spent a lot of time optimizing my builds and learning runs and developing and testing strategy then training people. You see to me such actions are the biggest part of the game in my not so humble opinion.
Shoot just last week I commented to a fleet member that my last NWS run was so easy that even my big huge lag issue recently was no impediment to it as I was very worried I would hinder or even cripple the team (yes we were all from the private Elite channel) but it was a milk run. The discussion came after he has wiped numerous times with teams from the public elite channel. My point being there are many different types of players and the devs should try to provide challenging content for all of them if possible and the people that was face-roll content should simply stop the bitcin' about real "elite", type of activities.
Not everyone gets to see where the Iron crosses grow...
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè
To the devs, this is the type of "teamwork" you foster by raising the difficulty simply by adding more hitpoints to NPCs which results in people just simply hiking their DPS. It's elitism at its best. Making elite content a simple matter of just building a ship to throw as much DPS as possible is dumbing down the game to spacebar smashing.
As to the person who posted this, your attitude will not make you any friends. Us "forum posters" know very well how to build a DPS boat. We don't all strive to build a boat where the "fun" comes down to blowing everything we see up in seconds.
What he said was "you have to contribute some amount of dps to the team". I, for one, only fly engi's. I have one that's a tank, and never parses below 15k, because you have to dps to get aggro. I have one, a healer, that's always at or above 10k dps, because the 0 damage healers are for PvP, and again, some contribution to ending the mission and getting your reward is expected. I have one that's in a science vessel (fleet nebula), and uses entirely torpedos (except for the omni-ap beam for targeting), and still gets 10k. Why?
Because a logical, reasonably built ship flown by a halfway competent pilot will get at least 10k, every time.
I mean, I have an engi getting 10k in a Nebula with torpedos, for christ's sake. And it is nowhere near decked out in gear - nearly all of it's sub 200k ec from the exchange.
And if you think the OP's happy, reasonable, posts, talking about the team contributions required in a team queue is "Toxic ****", I advise you to reconsider who's being toxic.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
Still I think the new tribble que for delta quadrant is already designed with the new rules in mind, so current optionals should stay optional. I think.
Normal mode=Hulk smash 3k-7k dps).
Advanced mode= Hulk smash with help(7k-10k dps).
Elite=Team Hulk smash(10K-x0k+dps).
I can still move.
I can still fight.
I will never give up!
Now, whether you can clear them with all the new fancy optionals like the OP here did, that's another question. But, optionals were always intended to be an extra reward for exceptional performance, not a guarantee. We all just got spoiled because we had outgrown the current elite difficulty.
Your responses miss my point entirely.
You're actually helping make my point, really.
Responding by telling me you can cram DPS into almost any ship as if that's the one and only metric that should ever matter.
I've gotten the full advanced optionals with pugs multiple time on tribble so I cant see this really being about advanced?
It's not a typo. This is the Advanced queue. You're running the Normal queue on Tribble if you are getting all the optionals with a pug group. There is no way a pug group got the final optional in Advanced.
I can still move.
I can still fight.
I will never give up!
I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but this is the equal of an elite stf on holodeck with a really tight timer on the 3 ships. PM Ships take chunks off the citadel ship hull. You guys are dropping it at a steady 1% at a time. 5 PM ships can snooze through advanced without ever caring. Again, faw/csv are not the "fast way" to kill the last 3 mobs.
I was honestly hoping this was elite, as someone would have been doing what Pandas are currently trying to do on test server. I'm honestly confused theres a post over advanced.
Here ya go....
Second try for me. Al torps and partigen build.
Saw the pic of your ship, you're level 60 with 100% Epic gear.
GG
2 guys on TS with max ship spec grouped with 3 random pugs is surely less than 5 guys working together from the top end Deeps channel.....
And a MK 12 Vrare faw boat will still put out more sustained dps than my wells. The way the damage is done is what makes PM faster, even without fully upgraded gear. If we're gonna argue about gear, mk 12 urare vs mk14 epic is 44 particle generators. Absolutely game breaking difference in TBR's damage with 44 particle generators :rolleyes:
Once the normal part of the run is done, drag all three "Boss" ships together, and recipe is as follows:
Sensor stack the target first.
Quantum Singularity manipulation (Rom T5 ability) + Sensor Scan + GW3 (2k/tic with max hit of 7k)+ Repulsors 2 (6k/tic with max hit of 20k) + ISO cannon (1 hit 40k) + Proton barrage (1 hit 10k) + Torp spread 2 (1 hit 2k with gravametric rift 3.5k/tic) + Warp plasma 1 (1.5k/tic) + Iso Charge with max hit of 212k = Chunks of hull ripping off.
You can hit all that in less than 8 secs (Duration of quantum manipulation)....
thats what 1 ship can do. We had 2 ships going at it. Now imagine 5 of this build. No need for dedicated debuffers and damage dealers.
SNB the Hazards on the Undine and FBP on Borg.
PS, the ISO Cannon is the new set power.
Scis have never been as powerful as this in in STO.
So what your saying is ganker science builds will out perform DPS builds for this STF? you shouldn't be talking like that on these forums, folks might get upset you derailed their anti-Elitist DPS vitriol.
edit: i have a 25k PvE Tactical Palisade build that i think i will be testing out soon
Again, reducing the idea of how "powerful" science is down to how much DPS it can put out...
Not outperform but negate the DPS required to destroy the shields before you get to the hull. That's where the biggest advantage kicks in.
PS, can you tell i'm bored with STO PvP right now? :P
What point are you trying to make?
Sci bs is basically the way to go on the end optional. Its utterly hysterical to watch. Our usual run with just two PM ships for "training" for elite, the voth ship goes 99% > 80% > 34% > boom, on advanced. As soon as thats dead, any wells TIF up and Iso cannon the undine ship (which will be so low on hull at this point 2 wells can destroy it). And you have basically 80% of the timer to deal with the borg queen, whos already been hit by all this spam a decent bit (her flight path sometimes goes headless chicken to "strategically" dodge I swear). Youll have a third Iso cannon shot on a wells if you did it right before the timer ends (would be 4-5 on holodeck due to the t5u vs tipler bug).
The only coordination involved when using sci ships is making sure you stack the voth ship to 6 before you go nuts, nuke hazards asap (not that it really matters with enough iso cannon spam), and 6 stack the borg queen while you finish the undine.
We've done this a few times on normal just for fun. Iso cannon 1 shots every single mob it hits pre boss wave, and it only takes 1 rotation to kill everything vs 2-3 depending on the skill on advanced. WTB one more person for elite spam
And yes, Pandas are so bored we've become pve heros on the test server :mad:
Agreed, what you trying to say kerriknight? You can't kill NPC's with Scrambles and Siphon.....
which amounts to the same thing. the big question we had was how do we get around the massive amount of shields the dreads have. for that last run our solution was staggered BeamOverload + Pen Doffs. the other things we had considered where weapons like ProtPol and BioMs, science ships with Tykens, TBR, Gravwell, etc...
we were basically trying out different things since we had already concluded that a pure FAW setup was not going to work. *note the Scimis in the group where all running CRF for burst. I was running FAW on my Narcine because i was aggroing.
I'm cheaper than a 2bit hoo... um, yeah let me set my Pali when Tribble comes back up and i'll join you guys. It's not like a Viper would be shy about BS sci spam
Strategies and tactics (mentioned by another poster) couldn't save it after that..although I admit I'm not a fan of content that requires much of that