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T5 to T6 to T7 to T8.....Solution
chuxx500
Member Posts: 24 Arc User
With the introduction of Tier 6 ships many players were upset because of the apparent obsoleting of their Tier 5 ships.
Even with the assurances that upgrading to T5U would make them "competitive" with T6 there were all kinds of doom type posts about the future of T5 ships.
As the news came out about what the upgraded T5 ships would be getting from Tribble testers, more people began to calm down as they could see many benefits from upgrading T5 and the one advantage they had over T6, namely the extra console which kind of made up for the lack of a 13th bridge officer power.
With the apparent PR blunder of mentioning that Fleet Tier 6 ships would be coming in the future all the people that somehow were not able to see that as an inevitability once again doomed up the forums because Fleet Tier 6 will be superior to Fleet Tier 5U.
I was one of the people that was bummed out about the T6 announcement originally but I started thinking of ways that could fix things.
My thinking was based on that inevitable Fleet Tier 6 I saw coming so I proposed a 2 upgrade system that made the T5U less than even a T6 but the second upgrade made the T5 equal in power to a Fleet T6 and all available as soon as DR drops so that wasn't going to happen.
So here is the obvious route to take for the whole ship upgrade debacle.
The upgrade system as proposed stays but when the Fleet Tier 6 ships become available with the new Fleet Holding coming probably with Season 10 in May 2015 you will then be able to upgrade your T5U's into T5 Elites or T5E which would include a 13th Boff power.
The Tier 5E ship would have one Ens. converted into a LT. Universal.
On ships with no Ensign they would receive an Ens. Universal.
On ships with more than 1 Ens. the stationed,(tac,eng,sci) Ens. would become a Lt. Uni without leaving a particular profession unstationed. Recluse would convert the Ens. Sci not Tac for example.
Now of course not all ships wil benefit as much as others, same as with the console upgrades and the T6's can still have that 13th Boff as a Lt. Comm when T5E only get Lt. but that Lt. is a universal which somewhat compensates for this and that is about all we could ask for.
So what does this mean for the future of Tier 5 ships?
A proper upgrade system for all Tier 5 and up ships to allow them to perform at the same level as whatever the top tier will be is essential for players' peace of mind as well as Cryptics bottom line.
Yes it will be more expensive to upgrade a Tier 5 to Fleet then T5U then Tier 5E but you will have YOUR SHIP if that is your preference.
Knowing that a Tier 5 purchased today can be upgraded to be as good (not identical) as the top tier of the day will build confidence in future Tier 5 sales.
Knowing that this will be true for all of your Lock Box, Lobi ships is a huge relief.
Also knowing that the ship upgrade system has been firmly established will reassure buyers that Tier 6 ships will be treated just as fairly when Tier 7 ships happen as a system for further upgrades for T5 and T6 to T7 stats and power is already in place to use when called for.
Most if not all of these ideas were probably already thought of as one of the options by Cryptic long before the DR announcement but nothing had been finalized about a second upgrade so it was not mentioned.
Well now that the proverbial Caitian is out of the bag it would be in everyones interest, especially Cryptics to just officially announce a fair upgrade system that would establish a clear path for keeping our ships up to date for DR, season 10 and anything and everything still to come.
T5<FT5=T5U<FT5U=T5E=T6<FT5E=FT6 @ 500Z per
One concern is with the order of upgrading, as of now it seems one could upgrade a ship then get the fleet version and have to once again upgrade that fleet version which ignores the previous upgrade.
Making a FT5U from a T5U or FT5E from a T5E should only cost 1 FSM and not punish players for upgrading their ships to T5U or T5E before getting fleet versions.
One request for Season 10's Fleet Holding; I would be cool with a Delta Outpost or Delta Listening Post but please, PLEASE don't make us have to build a Living Dead Embassy or even worse a Talaxian Restaurant Fleet Holding!!!
Even with the assurances that upgrading to T5U would make them "competitive" with T6 there were all kinds of doom type posts about the future of T5 ships.
As the news came out about what the upgraded T5 ships would be getting from Tribble testers, more people began to calm down as they could see many benefits from upgrading T5 and the one advantage they had over T6, namely the extra console which kind of made up for the lack of a 13th bridge officer power.
With the apparent PR blunder of mentioning that Fleet Tier 6 ships would be coming in the future all the people that somehow were not able to see that as an inevitability once again doomed up the forums because Fleet Tier 6 will be superior to Fleet Tier 5U.
I was one of the people that was bummed out about the T6 announcement originally but I started thinking of ways that could fix things.
My thinking was based on that inevitable Fleet Tier 6 I saw coming so I proposed a 2 upgrade system that made the T5U less than even a T6 but the second upgrade made the T5 equal in power to a Fleet T6 and all available as soon as DR drops so that wasn't going to happen.
So here is the obvious route to take for the whole ship upgrade debacle.
The upgrade system as proposed stays but when the Fleet Tier 6 ships become available with the new Fleet Holding coming probably with Season 10 in May 2015 you will then be able to upgrade your T5U's into T5 Elites or T5E which would include a 13th Boff power.
The Tier 5E ship would have one Ens. converted into a LT. Universal.
On ships with no Ensign they would receive an Ens. Universal.
On ships with more than 1 Ens. the stationed,(tac,eng,sci) Ens. would become a Lt. Uni without leaving a particular profession unstationed. Recluse would convert the Ens. Sci not Tac for example.
Now of course not all ships wil benefit as much as others, same as with the console upgrades and the T6's can still have that 13th Boff as a Lt. Comm when T5E only get Lt. but that Lt. is a universal which somewhat compensates for this and that is about all we could ask for.
So what does this mean for the future of Tier 5 ships?
A proper upgrade system for all Tier 5 and up ships to allow them to perform at the same level as whatever the top tier will be is essential for players' peace of mind as well as Cryptics bottom line.
Yes it will be more expensive to upgrade a Tier 5 to Fleet then T5U then Tier 5E but you will have YOUR SHIP if that is your preference.
Knowing that a Tier 5 purchased today can be upgraded to be as good (not identical) as the top tier of the day will build confidence in future Tier 5 sales.
Knowing that this will be true for all of your Lock Box, Lobi ships is a huge relief.
Also knowing that the ship upgrade system has been firmly established will reassure buyers that Tier 6 ships will be treated just as fairly when Tier 7 ships happen as a system for further upgrades for T5 and T6 to T7 stats and power is already in place to use when called for.
Most if not all of these ideas were probably already thought of as one of the options by Cryptic long before the DR announcement but nothing had been finalized about a second upgrade so it was not mentioned.
Well now that the proverbial Caitian is out of the bag it would be in everyones interest, especially Cryptics to just officially announce a fair upgrade system that would establish a clear path for keeping our ships up to date for DR, season 10 and anything and everything still to come.
T5<FT5=T5U<FT5U=T5E=T6<FT5E=FT6 @ 500Z per
One concern is with the order of upgrading, as of now it seems one could upgrade a ship then get the fleet version and have to once again upgrade that fleet version which ignores the previous upgrade.
Making a FT5U from a T5U or FT5E from a T5E should only cost 1 FSM and not punish players for upgrading their ships to T5U or T5E before getting fleet versions.
One request for Season 10's Fleet Holding; I would be cool with a Delta Outpost or Delta Listening Post but please, PLEASE don't make us have to build a Living Dead Embassy or even worse a Talaxian Restaurant Fleet Holding!!!
Post edited by chuxx500 on
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Fine... it's JUST T6 ships this time... T5-U ships MIGHT live up to the promise, but then comes the T7, the T8, the T9... And they WILL come if T6 sell well...
I am done giving Cryptic anything... I may be the only one, but I sense I am not.
No kind of money-requiring peace offering will change that.
T5<FT5=T5U<FT5U=T5E=T6<FT5E=FT6
keep in mind, T6 is going to be subdivided into specialities such as 'intelligence' and its going to be a confusing mess.
We were told things like phaser colour and the special effects couldn't be mixed and matched ship part style because players in pvp needed to easily see what they're up against, but this mish-mash of tiers would have that problem. People wouldn't know what possible builds or ships strength they were vaguely up against.
Personally, the main problem is the fact there's a big range of ships, which a lot of people have collected a lot of to be at end game with, and now we're largely making those defunct (though, the gap is not as substantial as some people are making out, T6I is undeniably better than T5U just from the types of arguably op abilities and the like they're being rolled out with to make them sell and fleet T6 will likely push this over the line).
We were told ages ago there wouldn't be a T6 with level expansion, so that ships didn't become defunct, instead it would move into different game mechanics, such as space 'boffs' to act as a fleet into missions with you. Guess that went out the window with the need to absolutely rake it in hand over fist.
I still maintain this is why PvP is not being revamped any time soon. The T5-U and T6 (including Fleet versions) need to be released first; then Cryptic needs to see how the ships are received, plus pay attention for serious bugs/issues, then make adjustments, etc.
After that point, I truly believe Cryptic will look into PvP again. The game engine will need to match players together. With the new traits coming in "Delta Rising", players may balk at pre-determined match-ups. (Level + Ship Tier type = match, I presume.) And I doubt PvP players will want free-for-all play. My opinions, anyways.
With 100 or so Z-Store, Fleet ships to be purchased there is a lot of impetus for Cryptic to do this for business reasons and it is not to make peace with anyone but to offer solutions that don't break the game but gives a means for players to continue playing as they see fit whether it be with T5 or T6 ships.
The game has to grow and this system would allow players to keep what they have but make it so they are not left behind.
Tier 7's may offer 14 Boff powers and so few Boff seats it may be untenable so they will have 6 Boff seats.
The system I have detailed would allow for an upgrade to such a layout and yes in exchange for a monetized item.
Cryptic is in no way a charitable organization and needs money to keep running and when this games ceases to make money it will end.
Only for fair value will I spend any money or even any in game ground currency, but for a half-baked upgrade to any of my ships I will just stay away until my level of obsolescence grows beyond my endurance and I go elsewhere.
If the upgrade system I detailed were adopted I would see me buying a few more tier 5 ships in the future.
The Gal X and D'kyr with dual Lt. Uni as Tac would make them quite good as would a Fleet Corsair not to mention the Galaxy could be very good as a FT5E.
This is only if things do not remain as they are proposed now.
T6 ships are going to make them a good amount of $$$ for them. It'll only be a matter of time before T6U then T7 come strolling in.
Before the game was released, I always imagined that there wouldn't be any tiers at all. You would buy a design of a ship and as you leveled you could have the option to upgrade your ship(buy more slots etc). My guess is they didn't go down this road because you could make a end game Connie, which we all know you can't do and along with many other reasons.
Anyway, Cryptic needs money, and this is their best option that's available to them.
At lower levels the Boff powers could be more open to Intel use but if on a Tac ship who wants to give up a APO3 or CSV3 or CRF3 for that Intel power?
Or how about losing that GW3 on your Intel Sci ship?
I can only see the Intel Cruisers being able to better utilize the higher Intel abilities without sacrificing too much as the Tac and Sci ships would have to.
This game needs a plain vanilla PVP mode as well as the rest of Baskin Robins' flavours mode.
The thing that would sell PVP to the masses as well as the Vanilla Mode would be Territorial Wars.
I have a few ideas about how that could be done but that is a subject for another thread.
There is a TRIBBLE-load of ships they havn't even touched yet, and they could offer early access to new missions to gold and pre-payers, and then open access to said content a week later... Still F2P.
There are PLENTY of ideas they've failed to consider that would have earned them plenty of money... But they took the easy way out, that coincidentally will require them to trash that eventually too.
whats with this, everyone has been asking new content for a while onw, and now the content is coming, everyone is complaining that the content is too much? why look a gift horse in the mouth, t5 is done thats buried now, t6 is the way forward and im already resigned to that fact. im not even gonna attempt a justification either beyond that times change, go with it or get left behind.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
They would be better served to still release the Intel Ships and then offer a "super structure" or modular bridge upgrade for the 13th BoFF Power upgrade for all T5 ships to make them equivalent to T6. They could even go one step further by offering different LTC and below bridge configurations for people to try.
They would have to keep it LTC and below so that the core differences in the bridges stay intact.
But how do you know they will? This game is nearly 5 years old and we're only now just moving on from T5. 5 years almost with our current tier being the strongest...plus how long do you think STO will last? 15-20+ years?
Sure, anything's possible. But -- and I say this as an invested STO fan -- I think the game will go dark before there's another level cap increase and a new ship tier to go with it.
Why? Because of the Specialization framework they're rolling out. This time around, it's themed around Intelligence. What other Specializations will be possible in the future, I don't know. I haven't had the time to brainstorm that.
But with ships and hybrid BOFF's having a more symbiotic relationship, Cryptic has room to design new ships around new content without raising a level cap for a long, long time.
Before, their strategy might have been to tie level cap increases with new expansions focused on a new storyline. Opening the Gamma Quadrant for example. They could still do that.
But now instead of increasing the level cap to 70, they could just create a new Specialization along with the ships and BOFF's to go with it and tailor the new content to that. Some people will want to buy the new ships based on the Specialization focus.
I have two characters that, in my mind, are supposed to be intelligence specialists. If I'm right, there will be a system for Captain specialization to go with the ships and the BOFFs. But even if there isn't, I'm going to want to put at least those two characters into an Intel ship.
Still debating about whether I'm going to want a Fed Intel ship or not, but I'm very interested in the KDF and Romulan Intel ships. Not because they're T6, but because:
* Intel/Electronic Warfare angle and mechanics
* Thematic fit for my espionage-themed characters
* Nice Design (Incidentally, this is my biggest hang-up with the Fed ships. The Scryer would have been a no-brainer for my Sci main, but I'm just not thrilled with the ring-shaped saucer design.)
Level 60 is just a number that doesn't greatly enhance my immersion. Give me my Intel Captain in a cutting-edge Intel ship doing missions with a theme of gathering intelligence... and they've got my attention.
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If the step to T6 is successfully, T7 will certainly come in time.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
I think the whole point of this system is to ensure that they don't need to go to Tier 7 at all. The reason to go to Tier 6 was apparently due to a stagnation of ships but the technology they developed to create the intel ships apparently is supposed to allow them to make many new systems in the future. This would imply we actually have a horizontal movement in ship specializations rather than a vertical progression in ship tiers to look forward to in the future.
The future is not nearly as bleak as it could be. We will see when the captain specialisation system comes in how this effects our careers with its flexibility to see how easy it is for new branches to be added later. They did say after all that progression in that system will be open ended continuing after we hit 60.
Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
That's exactly what I was thinking when I posted earlier. Thanks for putting it into better words.
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Actually, < means less than ... whatever is on the left side of the symbol "<" has a lesser value than whatever is on the right of the "<" symbol. As far as your question goes, no, there are not more ships in the T5U category than in the T5 category because T5 includes all the ships available to lvl 40-50 players while the T5Us do not include all of those ships.
I have purchased some Zen using real money, but not of that went towards any of the C-Store T5.5 ships. Find that the incremental increase in stats and whatnot was not worth spending any Zen on. I used the Zen (both from real money and grinding) to purchase the EC Cap increase and a lot of Doff slots.
I don't mind spending Zen on a ship as long as I think it the new ship is worth spending money on. I will take a closer look at the new T6 ship later, but not until more info is released about them. Unfortunately I am only interested in perhaps the Fed Guardian Cruiser since in theory it should be a good ship for my Fed Engineer. However, I for my KDF Tactical toon I am not going to buy a ship unless it is a Bird of Prey. As for my Romulan Science toon, I am rather reluctant to purchase any ship because I don't like trading 40 power points for singularity abilities where the only one that is of any real use is the Singularity Jump. I probably will not make another Romulan toon.
i recall a VERY large number of people saying the same about T6 a year ago, i honestly don't doubt anything anymore, if cryptic said they were going to release a unimatrix lockbox tomorrow, i still wouldn't be surprised.
i think the whole idea of "cryptic will never do this or that" is deader than disco.
After chasing leads I realized there is no Elite upgrade.
during a recent level cap introduction to DR, geko was on the forum and he mentioned this:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=18706971&postcount=86
so right now thats all we got on the subject.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I am thinking more like 2-4 years.
And you're still not getting the point... There are hundreds of different things they could do, just with the ships before they would have needed to even consider moving to a new tier... They just took the lazy way out.
And thats JUST on the ships... Don't even get started on the thousands of other things they could have done to earn money, without eventually pushing people away.
There was no reason to move on.
Don't be naive... If the T6 sell good, T7 is coming, and it's coming fast.
True... This time around it isn't so bad... My T5.5 ships wont be that far behind the T6... But then comes Fleet T6, and then later T7... And for people like me, who don't have the time and money to keep up with the arms-race (Upgrading and buying new Tiers)...
I KNOW I KNOW... People like me are undesired by Cryptic... no money and no time for perma Grind... But I am here... I don't want a big part of the cake... I just to taste it.
Cryptic are missing out by not offering people some way to fully upgrade the ships, even if it takes a lot of effort to achieve.
Ive had the vesta since the 2nd day it came out its still the best c-store ship of its type n even the new T6 ship does not seem to out match it. Vesta is one ship were meny builds fit it CC drain or healing.
Please stop it with the DOOM threads there is a permanent thread for that.
Wrong thread buddy... We are talking about upgraded and Ship tier increase... Not Level cap increase.
Consider how long tier 5 ships have been in Fed/KDF service: Since the Dominion War. Negh'Vars and Sovereigns were the first tier 5 ships, and there were already Galaxy retrofits used back then. And that was what, 40 or so years ago in-continuity? Seems about right to bump the tier up after a few decades.
But tier 7 ships? Let's put it into perspective: STO has only covered about a year in-continuity, maybe not even that. If they take a half a decade IRL to cover a year in-continuity, we won't see tier 7 ships for many, many years, unless Cryptic decides to do a timeskip. Besides, if going by the Enterprise-to-tier ratio, the Enterprise-G needs to be tier 6 before the Enterprises -H and -I at tier 7.
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I am flattered... Thank you.
You mistake my enthusiasm for great discussions, and my dedication to my fleet for allegiance towards STO and Cryptic.
Once the last member of my fleet leaves, so do I.
Also, I gave up when they introduced the fleet ships.
And in game a tier has generally lasted two years (four if you rightly consider that Fleet ships weren't a full tier increase, just a moderate stat buff). There is absolutely no reason for gameplay or story to start speculating about another tier increase now. I know (for some of you out there) we're at that odd point between antipication and aquisition where "what's next" seems like a very easy question to ask put practically speaking T7 is rather inconcievable at the moment.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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There's hundreds of different small adjustments but they've run through the list of major ship classes and ship types. All we've had to look forward to for a while now are novelty gimmicks (see. rear turrets, dual modes) and any attempt at filling out the KDF and ROM shipyards (which is just faction maintenance).
That's not a state where you can easily maintain a general interest in the game (though afficianados may be excited about each single bell/whistle a new ship is released with.) T6 on the other hand allows for that general excitement by developing more basic areas of the game.
Not only is it an excuse to revisit just what the hell end-game content should be (its been settled at fleet weapons for a good long while now which may not be the best situation now) it also gives cryptic the lattitude to invent entirely new classes of ships and ship roles (see. intel. That couldn't have happened at T5 because dedicating officers away form core tac/eng/sci abilities is a much more serious problem there). And you can bet that what we're seeing at T6 now is just the start of cryptics creative overhaul of end-game content since intel is not going to be the only new type of specialist boff (eventually) or for that matter specialist ship type.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!