No i think he makes a good point. What non of us are thinking about is,what happens if they sell alot of these ship packs. Does it stop at t6 probably not. All you guys buying those packs should think about this. t6 t7 t8 t9 on and on from now on. It doesn't have to be just with an exspansion that they add new ships. Something to think about if you ask me.
You cater to the largest number of customers possible, not the handful of spoiled crackpots.
And while that may be my opinion, it's one that every business adheres to. :rolleyes:
Hmm, not quite, not every business.
Whilst it would be quite foolhardy to accommodate EVERY 'crackpot' request, my business does attempt to cater for every customer request insofar as possible.
We had one customer request that we do not 'touch' her door handles whilst carrying out a job (overcome by allowing her to open the doors herself (she was OCD), we had another that requested that we ring the bell 3 times before she would answer (again OCD) and another that insisted that they would only communicate via letters (even though he had a telephone)
Each job took a little bit longer than expected, but we worked around it, it IS possible to cater for your user base if you try, and if the request is not TOO extreme.
Case in point: the current 'levelless items' should remain so, they were sold as such, and it would not cut too deeplly into Cryptics/PWE pockets to honor the sales description - rather than attempting to nickle and dime people.
I have no problem with a business making money, business is by its very definition a money making entity, but there can always be a certain level of give and take, so both people are happy with the transaction.
Been here since just before year 2. Bought a life sub nearly immediately. Joined my first guild in this game. Fleet, whatever, you know what I mean.
Bought every major pack that ever came out, including Legacy of Romulus and Advanced Dyson - and most of the lone ships.
Do you see what I am saying? I bought practically EVERYTHING, supported you guys (Cryptic) all the way.
I will not be buying the latest ship pack. I am not happy with where this game is going at all. Why bother buying this and having to upgrade them to T7 eventually? When will that STOP? I have no idea what you guys are even thinking any more.
When the ship pack doesn't sell anywhere near as well as you're thinking (and it won't), I want you to remember that THIS was the point that *most of us stopped pretending that we were okay with your dodgy bait-and-switch ways*.
I won't be 'leaving', and no-one can have any of my stuff, because I have a life sub. But the time where I bought all the packs has well and truly finished, because you guys can't leave well enough alone (Seriously, you completely and utterly ruined my play experience with the last so-called patch - I would totally get a refund for my life sub if possible, just on general principle - I'm utterly and completely disgusted with your attitude towards your customers lately - you might remember us as 'those rubes that give you money').
I will always remain a fan (I've had some great times with this game), but I am no longer interested in financially supporting your continual goosing/reaming of my play experience.
What kind of over-privileged brat makes a post like this and is actually serious?
What idiot invests in an MMO and expects the status quo to remain for the entire lifespan of the game? This is the first MMO I've ever played where the level cap stayed still for more than 2 years. The first MMO I've ever played where the lower level gear (Rear Admiral ships, in this case) can effectively compete with top-tier statistics.
Usually I just chuckle and think #firstworldproblems, but this is just pathetic. I honestly hope they voluntarily refund your money for everything so they don't feel bad about banning your account. You have a way over-inflated sense of entitlement.
Had no problem with your post until this^ why single out EVE? the devs are pretty good, the game may not be up to everybody's taste - its seen as a 'hardcore' 'steep level' game.
So why assume this person is from EVE or recommend they go 'back' there?
my apologies dear sir ....wont you share some kanar with me?
No hard feelings, it might be that sometimes my wording is a bit off
Please put the kanar in that bowl over there *grunts* :P
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Regardless of cash or time spent, the items acquired are an investment of one or the other. For those who spent real money on these things it was in fact Time they were buying, not the item. Either is a currency and any of us has the right to express dissatisfaction.
Let me translate the OP's post for those that just felt like jumping on him. I am a customer that does financially support the game with significant real money purchases. I have been happy to do so but am not happy about the recent change in policy and direction your business is going. I still very much enjoy the service but will have to seriously consider ending my support should things go as currently planned. I am not sure how much difference it will make but thought I would provide feedback and wish the best for your efforts and the game overall.
See....why jump a guy for something like that...hehe
Btw...its like a convience store I used to buy a particular sandwich from at lunch. I loved those things. Premade but fresh and tasty....I got one at least once a week. Then one day they decided this most happy sandwich needed to be made with tomatoes. I hate tomatoes...they make me sick. Despite how much I liked the sandwiches, I regretably stopped buying them. The convience store chain certainly did not notice this but all I could hope was that enough people did not like the change and spoke with their wallets.
Businesses get my money for products that respond to needs.
Needs should not be transparently created by the product manufacturer. I realize that a game designer creates the world and the rules but what they can never really create the player's needs.
Needs are things like escape, belonging, power/influence, etc. Primal drives.
These things can't be transparently created artificially by knocking a bunch of numbers on a spreadsheet around. You can require gear or virtually require it by virtue of competitive standards but you can't make players need the gear on an emotional level and emotional need is what drives all sales in all industries.
The "need" should come from the content, not from nerfs/buffs/competitiveness.
When you introduce EV suit content, it makes sense that I need to get a different suit than my standard armor. There's a whole system of logic that justifies EV suits as separate gear and my existing gear is not invalidated simply by spreadsheet values but by some new required functionality that I need something else for.
I could walk through how Tier 6 and new weapons that replace Lobi weapons could have been handled better but this stuff gets sprung on players so late in the design process that our feedback can't influence decisions. And I feel in large part like the feedback simply isn't valued by Cryptic, so why give it? Why test on Tribble or supply forum feedback if the feedback and concerns won't be respected?
I'd say it's more like he paid for permanent access to extra cable channels and received them, but he was never guaranteed the programming on those extra channels would stay the same.
No it's like he paid for cable channels and got the programming that was on it.
Then, the cable company released a new channel with new programming and switched off the old channel. Only problem is, the new programming sucks and he is saying he doesn't want to support said company anymore, nor take out a contract for the new channel.
Alot of ppl feel the same way. Me and my ENTIRE fleet included.
its like a convience store I used to buy a particular sandwich from at lunch. I loved those things. Premade but fresh and tasty....I got one at least once a week. Then one day they decided this most happy sandwich needed to be made with tomatoes. I hate tomatoes...they make me sick. Despite how much I liked the sandwiches, I regretably stopped buying them.
It is NOT like this at all.
It would be more like you purchased a membership from said convenience store entitling you to sandwiches every day for the rest of your life. You paid for it in good faith under the impression that these sandwiches would remain the same and that your feedback on said sandwiches would be listened to.
Only it wasn't, they put tomatoes in the sandwich without listening to what you had to say about the matter and devalued your membership that you had already purchased.
Been here since just before year 2. Bought a life sub nearly immediately. Joined my first guild in this game. Fleet, whatever, you know what I mean.
Bought every major pack that ever came out, including Legacy of Romulus and Advanced Dyson - and most of the lone ships.
Do you see what I am saying? I bought practically EVERYTHING, supported you guys (Cryptic) all the way.
I will not be buying the latest ship pack. I am not happy with where this game is going at all. Why bother buying this and having to upgrade them to T7 eventually? When will that STOP? I have no idea what you guys are even thinking any more.
When the ship pack doesn't sell anywhere near as well as you're thinking (and it won't), I want you to remember that THIS was the point that *most of us stopped pretending that we were okay with your dodgy bait-and-switch ways*.
I won't be 'leaving', and no-one can have any of my stuff, because I have a life sub. But the time where I bought all the packs has well and truly finished, because you guys can't leave well enough alone (Seriously, you completely and utterly ruined my play experience with the last so-called patch - I would totally get a refund for my life sub if possible, just on general principle - I'm utterly and completely disgusted with your attitude towards your customers lately - you might remember us as 'those rubes that give you money').
I will always remain a fan (I've had some great times with this game), but I am no longer interested in financially supporting your continual goosing/reaming of my play experience.
this looks like one of those i demand x or im threatening this or that, those are not allowed as they are on the fct list.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Been here since just before year 2. Bought a life sub nearly immediately. Joined my first guild in this game. Fleet, whatever, you know what I mean.
Bought every major pack that ever came out, including Legacy of Romulus and Advanced Dyson - and most of the lone ships.
Do you see what I am saying? I bought practically EVERYTHING, supported you guys (Cryptic) all the way.
I will not be buying the latest ship pack. I am not happy with where this game is going at all. Why bother buying this and having to upgrade them to T7 eventually? When will that STOP? I have no idea what you guys are even thinking any more.
When the ship pack doesn't sell anywhere near as well as you're thinking (and it won't), I want you to remember that THIS was the point that *most of us stopped pretending that we were okay with your dodgy bait-and-switch ways*.
I won't be 'leaving', and no-one can have any of my stuff, because I have a life sub. But the time where I bought all the packs has well and truly finished, because you guys can't leave well enough alone (Seriously, you completely and utterly ruined my play experience with the last so-called patch - I would totally get a refund for my life sub if possible, just on general principle - I'm utterly and completely disgusted with your attitude towards your customers lately - you might remember us as 'those rubes that give you money').
I will always remain a fan (I've had some great times with this game), but I am no longer interested in financially supporting your continual goosing/reaming of my play experience.
*pulls out tricorder and begins scanning*
Mmmm nope. My apologies, Captain, but sensor readings indicate that I have no Tribbles to give. Not a single Tribble to be found.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
It would be more like you purchased a membership from said convenience store entitling you to sandwiches every day for the rest of your life. You paid for it in good faith under the impression that these sandwiches would remain the same and that your feedback on said sandwiches would be listened to.
Only it wasn't, they put tomatoes in the sandwich without listening to what you had to say about the matter and devalued your membership that you had already purchased.
I don't think anyone plays any game thinking it will be for the rest of one's life. But your right there is a future expectaion that ive made an investment of sorts..not just had a meal. That said, i had no reason to think my sandwiches wouldn't stay the same either.
I just thought I might be maginally entertaining with my sad sandwich story...oh well
Why bother buying this and having to upgrade them to T7 eventually?
Why get any gear ever when you're just going to have to get better gear later when it comes out?
This stupid argument always comes up and it's always imbecilic. Cryptic can't just stop making new stuff, and there's only so much room for lateral improvement before every variation is exhausted. Forward motion has to resume at some point, and yeah, it can suck, but the game would stagnate and die without it. What will your time and money be worth then?
If it's any consolation, this game went its entire life up to this point without upping ship tiers officially. Odds are T7, if it ever happens, will be years away, plenty long enough for you to get your money's worth out of your T6 ships.
Businesses get my money for products that respond to needs.
Needs should not be transparently created by the product manufacturer. I realize that a game designer creates the world and the rules but what they can never really create the player's needs.
Needs are things like escape, belonging, power/influence, etc. Primal drives.
These things can't be transparently created artificially by knocking a bunch of numbers on a spreadsheet around. You can require gear or virtually require it by virtue of competitive standards but you can't make players need the gear on an emotional level and emotional need is what drives all sales in all industries.
The "need" should come from the content, not from nerfs/buffs/competitiveness.
When you introduce EV suit content, it makes sense that I need to get a different suit than my standard armor. There's a whole system of logic that justifies EV suits as separate gear and my existing gear is not invalidated simply by spreadsheet values but by some new required functionality that I need something else for.
I could walk through how Tier 6 and new weapons that replace Lobi weapons could have been handled better but this stuff gets sprung on players so late in the design process that our feedback can't influence decisions. And I feel in large part like the feedback simply isn't valued by Cryptic, so why give it? Why test on Tribble or supply forum feedback if the feedback and concerns won't be respected?
I agree with you.
It's funny someone once said a purchase in a F2P game store should be like when you go out to buy a toy. Something that gives you that bit of excitement and joy to purchase. Ships in STO fit that quite well for the most part. Some of us even have made a habit of collecting them all.
I stopped doing that when the entire fleet ship thing rolled out. Afterward I would only buy Cstore ships that were by default at fleet ship level. I did make an exception for the Romulan big D and later on the T'Varo except I merely bought them as fleet ships and to be honest because of the deliberation I put into the purchases they did not 'feel' the same way to buy as ships in the past I didn't even intent to pilot felt to purchase. In a bad way.
The new ship subclass looks pretty neat. Like a stealth sci vessel with a bit more teeth really. Just like the destroyers were very appealing when they first began to appear in the game. Honestly a tiny part of me wants to buy a few of them.
Except now I look at my existing collection. Some may merely be toys and even though a shinier version is on the display shelf it shouldn't bother me all that much but it still does a little. Some though are my characters. They are my avatars, and what I identify with not the captain. For them I feel forced to pay or walk away. It is as if for my exiting characters not in lockbox ships I am forced to pay $?? per character just to play DR. This is merely a perception disconnect but it doesn't matter logic does not determine human response to anything as much as perception as existing beliefs do. History and politics has proven this many times.
Others may not share my perception of the entire thing. Others may have different preconceptions when they purchased a ship than I. Time will tell. DR and it's level of success or failure will determine the future path the game takes.
On the feedback note and how Cryptic tends to ignore it. I honestly have to wonder if the feedback of the developers is being ignored as well by the higher levels of management and PWE. For a long time they seemed to by trying to update the old to keep pace with the new and when they added new features to the ship everyone got them. Warp Cores, arguably as impactful as an extra console, did not create a new starship tier nor require an upgrade token every ship in the game instantly got one. All cruisers gained auras. The SA changes. And so on. This really came out of left field to me as we had not seen anything like it for years.
Why get any gear ever when you're just going to have to get better gear later when it comes out?
This stupid argument always comes up and it's always imbecilic. Cryptic can't just stop making new stuff, and there's only so much room for lateral improvement before every variation is exhausted. Forward motion has to resume at some point, and yeah, it can suck, but the game would stagnate and die without it. What will your time and money be worth then?
If it's any consolation, this game went its entire life up to this point without upping ship tiers officially. Odds are T7, if it ever happens, will be years away, plenty long enough for you to get your money's worth out of your T6 ships.
Getting better gear is a function of playing the game. Getting a ship is a function of opening up a wallet. And don't bother with the zen exchange straw man someone paid cold hard cash which puts a completely different expectation on the activity.
As for forward momentum. The Warp Core item addition was forward momentum and did not require me to upgrade my ships to use it.
Could not a first officer bridge officer slot been added to every existing ship in the same way? That perhaps came with a single Lt. Cmdr boff ability slot? That could have been monetized in some way? Without creating anywhere near the level of chaos in the exiting ship design structure?
I think so. And that concept took all of five minutes to come up with.
Getting better gear is a function of playing the game. Getting a ship is a function of opening up a wallet. And don't bother with the zen exchange straw man someone paid cold hard cash which puts a completely different expectation on the activity.
As for forward momentum. The Warp Core item addition was forward momentum and did not require me to upgrade my ships to use it.
Could not a first officer bridge officer slot been added to every existing ship in the same way? That perhaps came with a single Lt. Cmdr boff ability slot? That could have been monetized in some way? Without creating anywhere near the level of chaos in the exiting ship design structure?
I think so. And that concept took all of five minutes to come up with.
I will say that I do like the upgrade button for similar ships of a configuration and wouldn't mind this being retrofitted back to fleet upgrades. It's smoother.
In MMOs increasing the level cap is one of the more common things that are done with expansions. You just have to look at games like WoW, LOTRO and many others to see that level increases happen in MMO.
And since in STO ships have always been associated with level bands then it's hardly surprising that there is a new Tier of starships for a new level band.
When you buy pack A, you buy Pack A, nothing more, nothing less. That pack entitles you to a set of objects that have specific attributes. Expanding the game, something that once again is common in MMOs whether content, ships or levels, means that they (being Cryptic) can't guarantee any kind of long term usefulness of any ship.
Even ships that were previously considered top-teir.are no longer top tier not because of the changing of definitions or stats, or fundamental attributes but because the game is expanding, something that living breathing, money-making games do.
Cryptic is offering an opportunity to upgrade ships, to bring them up into top tier, something that they didn't have to do. Especially considering the amount of work required to essentially create all the tier 5 ships again, including fleet, lobi, lockbox, CSTORE and dilithium purchasable ships.
What I'm puzzled about is the fact that people think that Cryptic are knifing them in the back, being ebil, and generally not thinking about their players when it's clear to me that they obviously are. Having the opportunity to upgrade your ship to being practically on par with the Tier 6 ships is something that few other MMOs do. When new levels are introduced so are new gear and usually you have to grind the higher teir content to get the best gear that is now available.
T6 ships are not the end of the world, nail in the coffin doom, that everyone in this thread seems to say they are. Look at the facts in context and stop thinking that Cryptic should give you more than you pay for. They do as this game is free to play and people can play without paying a cent but they certainly aren't obligated to give you more than what you pay for when you do pay.
I won't be bothered by these T6 gimick ships or the (poorly named) "iinteligence" boffs unless Cryptic decides to put in a gear score system like they did with Neverwinter.
In MMOs increasing the level cap is one of the more common things that are done with expansions. You just have to look at games like WoW, LOTRO and many others to see that level increases happen in MMO.
If all your friends are going to take cyanide does that mean it's a good idea for you to as well?
Increasing level caps are meaningless number increases for the sake of bigger meaningless numbers.
If they didn't offer an upgrade to give the appearance that all those T5 ships they've built up over the years aren't end-of-lifed with DR, as they don't tend to come with consoles that are not bound to that class of ship, you'd have an entire dead level band of ships, so only fools and collectors would buy them and those that have bought them would feel cheated.
I can't put my Vesta aux cannons on anything that isn't a Vesta. I can't put my Oddy Worker Bees on anything but an Oddy.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
When will people get into their thick heads that STO is one of the most generous, easy to use, tons of content, much of it free MMO's ever!
I play many MMO's and most of them are over priced, pay to win troll fests filled with one shot kill gold players and poor content.
STO is so generous with what they do. Regular givaways, regular mark and dill bonus weekends.
Before you say it.. oh another fanboi here. Yeah i am of the game and the shows. I also have a lot of MMO experience and If i had to rate them on a generosity rating sto be highest scorer by a long shot.
end of the day. if you no longer have fun with a game, don't play it. You wouldn't whip yourself like some sinning monk for pleasure now would you? :rolleyes:
Monkey see, Monkey do. Monkey flings Feathered Monkey poo...
The guy is expressing his dissatisfaction with the game,that's his opinion,that's how he feels.He has as much right as of all you to express his opinions.The way some people react on here makes me think you treat STO like a religion!Ho-ly Cr-ap!
It's always the same,bashing the people who have a different opinion to yours....you people disgust me.
The PWE/Cryptic sweatshop...not where the game is made,but where the game is played!
Take back your home,end the grind!
Volunteer moderators policing the forums is like a mall cop trying to solve a murder.
i think people really miss the point when somebody mentions they spent a great deal of $ on sto and are not happy. i know, 'entitlement' is a neat word to use because it comes off so dismissive and condescending. so go ahead and mock people for supporting the game you freeload off. throw out 'entitled' to your hearts content, but at least understand what the person is telling you; they are the ones buying zen and putting it on the exchange for the f2p freeloaders to buy with dil, and they are going to stop doing that, drip by drip. thats what they are saying. not 'boohoohoo my entitlement', but, 'hey, this aint on, and i am not spending my $ on this if it continues'.
but go ahead and knock yourselves out with that tired old schtick. just remember how much fun you had with it once those whales stop supporting your free ride.
i think people really miss the point when somebody mentions they spent a great deal of $ on sto and are not happy. i know, 'entitlement' is a neat word to use because it comes off so dismissive and condescending. so go ahead and mock people for supporting the game you freeload off. throw out 'entitled' to your hearts content, but at least understand what the person is telling you; they are the ones buying zen and putting it on the exchange for the f2p freeloaders to buy with dil, and they are going to stop doing that, drip by drip. thats what they are saying. not 'boohoohoo my entitlement', but, 'hey, this aint on, and i am not spending my $ on this if it continues'.
but go ahead and knock yourselves out with that tired old schtick. just remember how much fun you had with it once those whales stop supporting your free ride.
I want to know why people spend so much energy blindly defending a corporation and it's decision from any form of criticism and respond to any feedback that is negative by berating or mocking the customer offering the feedback. Without negative feedback, without criticism, a product cannot be improved. Decisions made in an echo chamber of yes men tend to end badly.
i think people really miss the point when somebody mentions they spent a great deal of $ on sto and are not happy. i know, 'entitlement' is a neat word to use because it comes off so dismissive and condescending. so go ahead and mock people for supporting the game you freeload off. throw out 'entitled' to your hearts content, but at least understand what the person is telling you; they are the ones buying zen and putting it on the exchange for the f2p freeloaders to buy with dil, and they are going to stop doing that, drip by drip. thats what they are saying. not 'boohoohoo my entitlement', but, 'hey, this aint on, and i am not spending my $ on this if it continues'.
but go ahead and knock yourselves out with that tired old schtick. just remember how much fun you had with it once those whales stop supporting your free ride.
So somehow entitlement is a wrong word to use but freeloaders is ok? Gotcha.
The guy is expressing his dissatisfaction with the game,that's his opinion,that's how he feels.He has as much right as of all you to express his opinions.The way some people react on here makes me think you treat STO like a religion!Ho-ly Cr-ap!
It's always the same,bashing the people who have a different opinion to yours....you people disgust me.
haters hating other haters. nothing new there. quit while your ahead :P.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
i think people really miss the point when somebody mentions they spent a great deal of $ on sto and are not happy. i know, 'entitlement' is a neat word to use because it comes off so dismissive and condescending. so go ahead and mock people for supporting the game you freeload off. throw out 'entitled' to your hearts content, but at least understand what the person is telling you; they are the ones buying zen and putting it on the exchange for the f2p freeloaders to buy with dil, and they are going to stop doing that, drip by drip. thats what they are saying. not 'boohoohoo my entitlement', but, 'hey, this aint on, and i am not spending my $ on this if it continues'.
but go ahead and knock yourselves out with that tired old schtick. just remember how much fun you had with it once those whales stop supporting your free ride.
Not everyone who thinks he acting entitled are "freeloaders." I spend plenty of real world money on this game too, but I don't throw a hissy fit on the forums when they make I change I don't like.
I've gotten what I paid for and so has he.
It's not myfault ifyoufeel trolledbymyDisco ball...Sorry'boutit.
Comments
No i think he makes a good point. What non of us are thinking about is,what happens if they sell alot of these ship packs. Does it stop at t6 probably not. All you guys buying those packs should think about this. t6 t7 t8 t9 on and on from now on. It doesn't have to be just with an exspansion that they add new ships. Something to think about if you ask me.
Hmm, not quite, not every business.
Whilst it would be quite foolhardy to accommodate EVERY 'crackpot' request, my business does attempt to cater for every customer request insofar as possible.
We had one customer request that we do not 'touch' her door handles whilst carrying out a job (overcome by allowing her to open the doors herself (she was OCD), we had another that requested that we ring the bell 3 times before she would answer (again OCD) and another that insisted that they would only communicate via letters (even though he had a telephone)
Each job took a little bit longer than expected, but we worked around it, it IS possible to cater for your user base if you try, and if the request is not TOO extreme.
Case in point: the current 'levelless items' should remain so, they were sold as such, and it would not cut too deeplly into Cryptics/PWE pockets to honor the sales description - rather than attempting to nickle and dime people.
I have no problem with a business making money, business is by its very definition a money making entity, but there can always be a certain level of give and take, so both people are happy with the transaction.
It is strong with that one,...
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
What kind of over-privileged brat makes a post like this and is actually serious?
What idiot invests in an MMO and expects the status quo to remain for the entire lifespan of the game? This is the first MMO I've ever played where the level cap stayed still for more than 2 years. The first MMO I've ever played where the lower level gear (Rear Admiral ships, in this case) can effectively compete with top-tier statistics.
Usually I just chuckle and think #firstworldproblems, but this is just pathetic. I honestly hope they voluntarily refund your money for everything so they don't feel bad about banning your account. You have a way over-inflated sense of entitlement.
Go back to EVE Online, kid.
Captaincy, Excelsior-Class U.S.S. Bianca Beauchamp NCC-99947-F
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Had no problem with your post until this^ why single out EVE? the devs are pretty good, the game may not be up to everybody's taste - its seen as a 'hardcore' 'steep level' game.
So why assume this person is from EVE or recommend they go 'back' there?
No hard feelings, it might be that sometimes my wording is a bit off
Please put the kanar in that bowl over there *grunts* :P
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Let me translate the OP's post for those that just felt like jumping on him. I am a customer that does financially support the game with significant real money purchases. I have been happy to do so but am not happy about the recent change in policy and direction your business is going. I still very much enjoy the service but will have to seriously consider ending my support should things go as currently planned. I am not sure how much difference it will make but thought I would provide feedback and wish the best for your efforts and the game overall.
See....why jump a guy for something like that...hehe
Btw...its like a convience store I used to buy a particular sandwich from at lunch. I loved those things. Premade but fresh and tasty....I got one at least once a week. Then one day they decided this most happy sandwich needed to be made with tomatoes. I hate tomatoes...they make me sick. Despite how much I liked the sandwiches, I regretably stopped buying them. The convience store chain certainly did not notice this but all I could hope was that enough people did not like the change and spoke with their wallets.
Same thing here folks.
Businesses get my money for products that respond to needs.
Needs should not be transparently created by the product manufacturer. I realize that a game designer creates the world and the rules but what they can never really create the player's needs.
Needs are things like escape, belonging, power/influence, etc. Primal drives.
These things can't be transparently created artificially by knocking a bunch of numbers on a spreadsheet around. You can require gear or virtually require it by virtue of competitive standards but you can't make players need the gear on an emotional level and emotional need is what drives all sales in all industries.
The "need" should come from the content, not from nerfs/buffs/competitiveness.
When you introduce EV suit content, it makes sense that I need to get a different suit than my standard armor. There's a whole system of logic that justifies EV suits as separate gear and my existing gear is not invalidated simply by spreadsheet values but by some new required functionality that I need something else for.
I could walk through how Tier 6 and new weapons that replace Lobi weapons could have been handled better but this stuff gets sprung on players so late in the design process that our feedback can't influence decisions. And I feel in large part like the feedback simply isn't valued by Cryptic, so why give it? Why test on Tribble or supply forum feedback if the feedback and concerns won't be respected?
No it's like he paid for cable channels and got the programming that was on it.
Then, the cable company released a new channel with new programming and switched off the old channel. Only problem is, the new programming sucks and he is saying he doesn't want to support said company anymore, nor take out a contract for the new channel.
Alot of ppl feel the same way. Me and my ENTIRE fleet included.
...#LLAP...
It is NOT like this at all.
It would be more like you purchased a membership from said convenience store entitling you to sandwiches every day for the rest of your life. You paid for it in good faith under the impression that these sandwiches would remain the same and that your feedback on said sandwiches would be listened to.
Only it wasn't, they put tomatoes in the sandwich without listening to what you had to say about the matter and devalued your membership that you had already purchased.
...#LLAP...
this looks like one of those i demand x or im threatening this or that, those are not allowed as they are on the fct list.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
*pulls out tricorder and begins scanning*
Mmmm nope. My apologies, Captain, but sensor readings indicate that I have no Tribbles to give. Not a single Tribble to be found.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
I don't think anyone plays any game thinking it will be for the rest of one's life. But your right there is a future expectaion that ive made an investment of sorts..not just had a meal. That said, i had no reason to think my sandwiches wouldn't stay the same either.
I just thought I might be maginally entertaining with my sad sandwich story...oh well
Why get any gear ever when you're just going to have to get better gear later when it comes out?
This stupid argument always comes up and it's always imbecilic. Cryptic can't just stop making new stuff, and there's only so much room for lateral improvement before every variation is exhausted. Forward motion has to resume at some point, and yeah, it can suck, but the game would stagnate and die without it. What will your time and money be worth then?
If it's any consolation, this game went its entire life up to this point without upping ship tiers officially. Odds are T7, if it ever happens, will be years away, plenty long enough for you to get your money's worth out of your T6 ships.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
I agree with you.
It's funny someone once said a purchase in a F2P game store should be like when you go out to buy a toy. Something that gives you that bit of excitement and joy to purchase. Ships in STO fit that quite well for the most part. Some of us even have made a habit of collecting them all.
I stopped doing that when the entire fleet ship thing rolled out. Afterward I would only buy Cstore ships that were by default at fleet ship level. I did make an exception for the Romulan big D and later on the T'Varo except I merely bought them as fleet ships and to be honest because of the deliberation I put into the purchases they did not 'feel' the same way to buy as ships in the past I didn't even intent to pilot felt to purchase. In a bad way.
The new ship subclass looks pretty neat. Like a stealth sci vessel with a bit more teeth really. Just like the destroyers were very appealing when they first began to appear in the game. Honestly a tiny part of me wants to buy a few of them.
Except now I look at my existing collection. Some may merely be toys and even though a shinier version is on the display shelf it shouldn't bother me all that much but it still does a little. Some though are my characters. They are my avatars, and what I identify with not the captain. For them I feel forced to pay or walk away. It is as if for my exiting characters not in lockbox ships I am forced to pay $?? per character just to play DR. This is merely a perception disconnect but it doesn't matter logic does not determine human response to anything as much as perception as existing beliefs do. History and politics has proven this many times.
Others may not share my perception of the entire thing. Others may have different preconceptions when they purchased a ship than I. Time will tell. DR and it's level of success or failure will determine the future path the game takes.
On the feedback note and how Cryptic tends to ignore it. I honestly have to wonder if the feedback of the developers is being ignored as well by the higher levels of management and PWE. For a long time they seemed to by trying to update the old to keep pace with the new and when they added new features to the ship everyone got them. Warp Cores, arguably as impactful as an extra console, did not create a new starship tier nor require an upgrade token every ship in the game instantly got one. All cruisers gained auras. The SA changes. And so on. This really came out of left field to me as we had not seen anything like it for years.
People who generalize are always wrong.
When people continue to throw money at ships and the current design - surprise, they going to keep doing the same, true.
That doesn't mean you can conclude it can't be or shouldn't be better or with entirely different gameplay.
I will agree as far as it's pointless to complain and then go in-game and throw 500$ after lockbox keys though yeah totally.
Getting better gear is a function of playing the game. Getting a ship is a function of opening up a wallet. And don't bother with the zen exchange straw man someone paid cold hard cash which puts a completely different expectation on the activity.
As for forward momentum. The Warp Core item addition was forward momentum and did not require me to upgrade my ships to use it.
Could not a first officer bridge officer slot been added to every existing ship in the same way? That perhaps came with a single Lt. Cmdr boff ability slot? That could have been monetized in some way? Without creating anywhere near the level of chaos in the exiting ship design structure?
I think so. And that concept took all of five minutes to come up with.
I will say that I do like the upgrade button for similar ships of a configuration and wouldn't mind this being retrofitted back to fleet upgrades. It's smoother.
In MMOs increasing the level cap is one of the more common things that are done with expansions. You just have to look at games like WoW, LOTRO and many others to see that level increases happen in MMO.
And since in STO ships have always been associated with level bands then it's hardly surprising that there is a new Tier of starships for a new level band.
When you buy pack A, you buy Pack A, nothing more, nothing less. That pack entitles you to a set of objects that have specific attributes. Expanding the game, something that once again is common in MMOs whether content, ships or levels, means that they (being Cryptic) can't guarantee any kind of long term usefulness of any ship.
Even ships that were previously considered top-teir.are no longer top tier not because of the changing of definitions or stats, or fundamental attributes but because the game is expanding, something that living breathing, money-making games do.
Cryptic is offering an opportunity to upgrade ships, to bring them up into top tier, something that they didn't have to do. Especially considering the amount of work required to essentially create all the tier 5 ships again, including fleet, lobi, lockbox, CSTORE and dilithium purchasable ships.
What I'm puzzled about is the fact that people think that Cryptic are knifing them in the back, being ebil, and generally not thinking about their players when it's clear to me that they obviously are. Having the opportunity to upgrade your ship to being practically on par with the Tier 6 ships is something that few other MMOs do. When new levels are introduced so are new gear and usually you have to grind the higher teir content to get the best gear that is now available.
T6 ships are not the end of the world, nail in the coffin doom, that everyone in this thread seems to say they are. Look at the facts in context and stop thinking that Cryptic should give you more than you pay for. They do as this game is free to play and people can play without paying a cent but they certainly aren't obligated to give you more than what you pay for when you do pay.
If all your friends are going to take cyanide does that mean it's a good idea for you to as well?
Increasing level caps are meaningless number increases for the sake of bigger meaningless numbers.
If they didn't offer an upgrade to give the appearance that all those T5 ships they've built up over the years aren't end-of-lifed with DR, as they don't tend to come with consoles that are not bound to that class of ship, you'd have an entire dead level band of ships, so only fools and collectors would buy them and those that have bought them would feel cheated.
I can't put my Vesta aux cannons on anything that isn't a Vesta. I can't put my Oddy Worker Bees on anything but an Oddy.
I play many MMO's and most of them are over priced, pay to win troll fests filled with one shot kill gold players and poor content.
STO is so generous with what they do. Regular givaways, regular mark and dill bonus weekends.
Before you say it.. oh another fanboi here. Yeah i am of the game and the shows. I also have a lot of MMO experience and If i had to rate them on a generosity rating sto be highest scorer by a long shot.
end of the day. if you no longer have fun with a game, don't play it. You wouldn't whip yourself like some sinning monk for pleasure now would you? :rolleyes:
It's always the same,bashing the people who have a different opinion to yours....you people disgust me.
Take back your home,end the grind!
Volunteer moderators policing the forums is like a mall cop trying to solve a murder.
You should have quoted all of it and not just one line of my post....
Take back your home,end the grind!
Volunteer moderators policing the forums is like a mall cop trying to solve a murder.
but go ahead and knock yourselves out with that tired old schtick. just remember how much fun you had with it once those whales stop supporting your free ride.
free jkname
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I want to know why people spend so much energy blindly defending a corporation and it's decision from any form of criticism and respond to any feedback that is negative by berating or mocking the customer offering the feedback. Without negative feedback, without criticism, a product cannot be improved. Decisions made in an echo chamber of yes men tend to end badly.
Oh well.
So somehow entitlement is a wrong word to use but freeloaders is ok? Gotcha.
haters hating other haters. nothing new there. quit while your ahead :P.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Not everyone who thinks he acting entitled are "freeloaders." I spend plenty of real world money on this game too, but I don't throw a hissy fit on the forums when they make I change I don't like.
I've gotten what I paid for and so has he.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy