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T6 Ships and the History of the Bortas
wintiemintie
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
The feedback the new fed ships seem to be getting reminds me of the day when the Bortas released.
I can't help but think on that day so long ago.
A ship often called the Bortas was released. Many KDF looked at this and cried out, " This. This is not what we want. "
In response to this, we got nothing for a very, very long time.
I see the Fed player responses to their new intel ships, numerous as they are. They say, " No, no. We do not want this. "
I can't but help to think back on what happened then, and after and wonder if that'd happen again. Probably not.
In all seriousness though. Thank you Ship Designer and Dev team for the 2 KDF ships. It would of been nice to have a Sci ship, but the Qib and MaHa are beautiful designs. Much Respect!
And the T5-U Upgrade for the Command varient. 4/3/4 Hnrrgghh. Not bad at all. Max shield cap % consoles would do decent there.
I can't help but think on that day so long ago.
A ship often called the Bortas was released. Many KDF looked at this and cried out, " This. This is not what we want. "
In response to this, we got nothing for a very, very long time.
I see the Fed player responses to their new intel ships, numerous as they are. They say, " No, no. We do not want this. "
I can't but help to think back on what happened then, and after and wonder if that'd happen again. Probably not.
In all seriousness though. Thank you Ship Designer and Dev team for the 2 KDF ships. It would of been nice to have a Sci ship, but the Qib and MaHa are beautiful designs. Much Respect!
And the T5-U Upgrade for the Command varient. 4/3/4 Hnrrgghh. Not bad at all. Max shield cap % consoles would do decent there.
Post edited by wintiemintie on
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Comments
I think the Bort is a little on the extreme end of "different", but the design aesthetic isn't bad at all. The new Qib* cruiser looks like a toned down variant of the bortas and looks fantastic.
*I can't help but think of the Quarian admiral whose ship was called "Quib Quib" when I see "Qib".
Personally I liked and used the Bortas. I tried mogh for a while but still loved bortas more. More visually appealing to me.
Ohhh. haha. Now I won't be able to get Quarians out of my head when i see a Qib.
Really the only thing that going to effect more ships is sales numbers.. if the ships do not sale well they wont keep releasing that type of ship... but given the want by a lot of feds for a cloak integrated ship I see them selling very well.
Really I would be more concerned with KDF sells. 2 new ships.. if they do not sell well that will be bad for future KDF ships. KDF players need to invest in these new ships. I plan to get at least one of every fact if I can.
Though I really want to use my grumba I think instead of going T-5u Ill get a T6 instead. They also need to make a T6 sci ship for KDF.. I was really surprised they didn't. Maybe a really tanky gorn sci ship.
Yeah, they should've (and still should) released smaller faction-specific packs.
I strongly dislike the Fed ships so I'll have no use for those and I only have 1 Romulan char., but she's in a T'Varo. I bought a Valdore, Mogai and a D'Deridex and she still ended up in the T'Varo, I just love that little warbird too much, so I don't really see that changing.
The 2 Klingon ships however not only that I love the looks of, but I can find a good use for them, especially the raptor - the missing link in the KDF roster.
I really don't understand why didn't they think of releasing smaller faction-specific packs ala the "Starter Pack" in LoR. They'd make much more money with those, since all the people that are witholding purchases now because only play 1 faction, or don't want/need all those ships would probably cave in a purchase a smaller pack for DR.
I bought the "Starter Pack" back then because I'm an ENT fan and I loved the T'Varo, but I knew I won't play that many Romulan chars so I had no need for the big pack.
Same now, I'd buy a smaller KDF pack - I need/like/want the ships and I'll have good use for the Boffs, Doffs and upgrades. I just don't intend to pay for 6 more ships I'll never use.
Heh
I expect the raptor to be very good actually, at least as good as what anyone else gets at T6. I know they have non-favorable history with the KDF, but undermining their sales of a brand new ship on purpose would be so asinine that I can't really see it happen.
Anyway, like captainoblivous said, I also love the 2 new T6 ships from what I've seen design wise so far. Cryptic always does awesome job in designing KDF ships and these 2 seem to be no exception to that. Ships like these make me get them based on looks alone.
Yeah, that thought pops-up in my head a lot of times. I even said it here on the forum on more than a few ocassions.
On the ocassions they do make KDF stuff, they usually get it spot on and it looks great and aproprate to lore and the general setting. It's not only the ships, but mostly everything they do for the KDF looks awesome.
That's what leads me to believe that the roadblock we usually have is not because all the devs. hating on the faction, but rather a couple of decision makers at Cryptic combined with pressure and directions from PWE overlords. I could be waaay off target with this, but I have a hunch that's what's happening.
Which, in my belief, is the reason the KDF gets the more skilled players on average. Because KDF players were forced to utilize every single percent of what we have at our disposal, rely on teamwork and help and learn a lot about mechanics and how things work in order to stay on top with a sub-par equipment for a lot of time. That and the fact you need to be hardcore and love challenges in order to really enjoy a underdeveloped faction.
While things have improved lately (can't really call the Mogh sub-par, I get 1-st place in like 80% of the CCE I've been in these last couple of weeks for ex.), the fact about the skill remains.
What do you mean by "infected with Cryptic cruiser stats"?
Sure, the Mogh has 5 forward weapons slots, but the Bortas line can deliver unmatched burst damage on target when using DHC's and Beam Overload/Torpedo High Yield when combined with the autocannon.
Sensor Analysis on the Command Cruiser variant makes it even more deadlier.
IMO in the current climate, its not very good in PvP dealing with fast and agile ship classes.
But its an excellent cruiser destroyer like no other.
And it quite frankly excels at STF's, being able to take as well as it can give.
Blah blah blah, the usual anti-Bort nonsense. :rolleyes:
Put on a new record already.
And the one and only reason it even struggles in PvP these days is poor balancing choices Cryptic made with powers, turning escorts and the like into nearly unstoppable speedboats.
So you don't like it? Wonderful!
Care to actually spell out what you don't like about it?
Not really, unless you are (for some odd reason) buying the whole 3 pack rather than just one of them (i.e. the sci bort). If you buy all you need (i.e. just the one) then it is on the same footing as most others, cost wise.
Go speak to DDIS and tell me he can't run a good bort!
I think you mean "inertia", rather than turn rate. Nowadays turn rate can be boosted very nicely without losing anything, while inertia cannot and it is inertia that governs acceleration and deceleration, among other things. As I understand it, turn rate handles the maximum rate of turn, while inertia governs how long it takes to get to that max turn rate.
Saying that pets "follow instructions" is...a little loose. While the bort doesn't have the science capabilities of something like the Vo'quv, it was never designed to do so. Despite this, you have a ltcmdr universal slot which you could use.
How many ships have that? Not many, that's for sure and of those that do, how many have 8 weapon slots, no less than 4 tac consoles, a cloak and (potentially) sensor analysis?
It doesn't need to be used that way. As I said, turn rate can be boosted nowadays without losing anything in return, which was not true when the bort made its debut back in 2012.
Oh, I have a message from a group of beam arrays. They say "Hello!".
First you said it was a siege-gun, but now you say it's a traditional cruiser. Which is it?
The alternatives are only "cheaper" if you go and buy the whole bort pack, which you do not need to do.
Hell, most of the builds I have seen completely bin the bortas consoles in favour of other (more useful) consoles. Just like the oddy, just like almost any other piece of unique gear that comes from a c-store boat. They are toys that you do not need to buy, let alone use.
Oddly enough, the bort can work. It is rather more difficult, but it is possible. Have you ever actually sat down and tried to make it work, or are you one of those types who will just take one quick glance at something and slam it without thinking it through?
Oh, many people have. So what you're saying is "we can do it with free stuff, why buy anything more?". Odd that you would ask that while implying that one must buy the full bort set, as you did eariler.
Non-sequitur. Those traits, doffs and boffs are also required to make an effective build on any other boat. The combinations are different I admit, but still necessary. Think you can make a boat effective without those boffs, doffs, reps and traits?
Everything I have read in your post suggests that you haven't actually tried to make the bort work. In fact, it is rather like you haven't even bought it and are just going off what you have heard from others who dislike the bort. Over the years, I have run with quite a few borts that more than pulled their weight in PVE.
I could even name one person who does pretty well in a sci bort in PVP. He's active on this forum as it happens. "Dontdrunkimshoot".
The way I see the bort is that its decent at what it can do (the usual faw with evasive boosted as much as possible and a few rcs) but to use it in ways the designers truely did not design it is a sign of the type of players the KDF has fostered over the years in that they took this fed-orientated ship and rebuilt it to perform with weaponry that most would find inadvisable - the design a labour of love; not fixated on the optimum but the 'because I can'
Few feds I know have ever push their ships beyond what they were designed for and this I feel is the difference - the kdf had so few ships they wanted to explore their capabilities beyond the designed (for example I've seen a sci norgh whose build was nothing but heals meant to drive the fed kerrateers crazy by rendering their target near unkillable)
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rofl you must be trolling.
The mogh is more flexible plus brings more fire power than any other KDF ship. It is kinda like our token ship we got because we went for over a year without a 5 fore weapon ship. We are yet to get our first 5 tact console ship.
The tactical variant Bortas has 5 tactical consoles.
Not only that...but the Tac Bortas was the FIRST ship in the game to have 5 tac consoles.
Let me break down what I said:
Fleet Mogh = more flexible ship
Bortasqu = flying pig
I still love the flying pig, it's a challenge to make it work. It's not superior in anyway to the Mogh, or my Tork.
It's agility.
A KDF "Battlecruiser" that doesn't handle like a KDF Battlecruiser. There's 2 general things KDF Battlecruisers have leaned towards:
Agility and Firepower.
Agility with at the bare minimum a Turn Rate of 9 (Negh'Var) and 11 at best (i.e. K'T'Inga) with the 10 our happy medium.
Firepower in that KDF Battlecruisers are DHC/DC capable. Not necessarily LtCdr TAC stations, but we have the luxury of DHC/DC options.
Even the Subsystem Power Bonus leans towards Weapons & Engine Power.
Back when the only KDF Battlecruisers were the freebie Negh'Var, Vor'Cha, the Bortasqu' was tossed out to us.
Looking at what KDF Battlecruisers have played by, it did not fit characteristics and playstyle of the type of ships it claims to be. Even with the later advent of the Fleet ships with Fleet K'T'Inga, Fleet Vor'Cha, and then the Avenger, I mean, **Mogh**, the Bortasqu' never fit the mold of what a KDF Battlecruiser characteristically meant.
If the Bortasqu' was meant to be a hulking juggernaught of staying power, it isn't. Even the freebie Lv40 Negh'var and Vor'Cha Retrofits did not have an issue with staying alive.
If the Bortasqu' was meant to be a damage dealer, it can, but its terrible handling makes the application of any potential for great firepower problematic. Kahless help you if you want to do this in PVP. Especially today's PVP with all the EPTE/A2D, etc. You can have Death Star and Genesis Weapon scale of firepower for your ship, but if you can't present your weapons in a timely manner on something that's faster than a stationary object, then all that firepower doesn't mean squat.
So now we come to the next obvious remedy... work on improving the Bortasqu's agility. There's various means on doing that but there's a big problem. You have to sacrifice quite a bit of build space (skillpoints, BOFF skills, consoles, etc) to make it handle even somewhat responsively. Build space that could have made the ship tougher, harder hitting, etc.
That's why ships like the Avenger, I mean, *Mogh*, Fleet Vor'Cha, are still superior options over the Bortasqu'. You don't have to sacrifice build space to make it handle decently. They already have 4 TAC Consoles, DHC/DC capable, handle very well. They have the firepower, they have the survivability, they have the agility, and the player can emphasize even more any of those to make it perform better.
Unlike the Bortasqu'. You need to increase the agility. Even in PVE, if you accidentally put your ship out of position, you're screwed because you'll be wasting a long time to glacially turn around and go back to where you're supposed to be.
The Bortasqu' isn't any more survivable than any of the KDF Battlecruisers. It *may* have better firepower but the Fleet Vor'Cha and Avenger, I mean, *Mogh* may say otherwise. But its handling leaves much to be desired.
P.S. - For PVP, if you run into a "Raider" style of ship... Kahless help you if you're flying this brick called a Bortasqu'.