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dual cannons vs heavy dual cannons
commandereffi
Member Posts: 33 Arc User
Which to get, I see the dmg is higher for the dual heavy cannons, but they seem slower to fire, vs the rapid fire of the dual cannons. Which to get? I see alot of builds online with 4 slots of dual heavy cannons.
Post edited by commandereffi on
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The way they cycle, you can actually combine them for very good results. Here is the way they work together: DHCs fire their first shot at the same time the DCs fire theirs. DHC=4 shots, and DC=2. Then, while the DHCs are on cool down, the DCs fire another two shots. When the DCs come off cool down, the DHCs are ready to fire again.
They both fire 4 shots in the amount of time the DHCs cycle. But, if you run an even number of them on the front, you will be able to hit the enemy with high spike damage, in the first shot. Then some sustained damage from the DCs, till the DHCs cycle again.
Make sure they have ACC (otherwise they will shoot all over the place).
ACC: 10-20% or( higher if you can get your hands on them)
CSB: 40%
Time will only tell!
It really depends on what you are looking for. I personally prefer a build that will allow me to have quick kills in PVEs, and STFs instead of higher DPS. When doing the missions, if I can kill things faster, it allows me to finish what I need to do quickly, and then help out others in the team.
DC's fire faster, DHC hits harder +crit bonus.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
This. I'm surprised no one mentioned that sooner tbh.
Exactly, I myself never run DC's, if anything is going to be a sub for that slot, it is normally going to be a torpedo, or a DBB.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
If you are choosing between DHC vs DC, then DHC are equal or superior in every way that matters
You don't even bother to support your own statement here. I don't really care what you do later on in the thread, this isn't an answer. Why post it?
The dual cannons offer a better sustained damage, since they only fire two shots per fire cycle.
In and of themselves, unbuffed fire, DHC's actually always parse ahead, for reasons that are actually mentioned in this thread; power and crit.
Thats all true but it doesnt matter.
Well yah. Then you go on to talk about some obvious stuff like..."you need to kill stuff' and then some stuff about PVP. Sure we get it. PVP rocks. Let's stay on topic though.
The only area where DCs come out ahead is with per-shot bonuses (DEM, Omega-2pc, maybe 1-2 more), and you give up so much to get it that its not worth it.
And that's the only area that matters as DC's were designed for exactly that purpose and engineering heavy ships really don't give up a lot for that. I mean unless we're talking PVP and escorts, the only OTHER ship that you have a choice between the two would be certain engineering heavy ships like battle cruisers or dreads. And they will eat your lunch.
5 through 9 really was just a bit of text without meaning. If anyone finds meaning in there disregard it. Let's get to number 10 as that pops up a bit.
Because of the game mechanics dual cannons eat more power than DHCs when used with turrets. It has to do with the firing cycles. So higher power = more DPS so go DHC.
OK. With unbuffed fire sure. Who does that? Power management on a cruiser by an engineer isn't really an issue. Seriously this should be put to rest. That's just misleading.
EDIT: Engineers use beams, cannons, and DC's combined with power management and long duration buffs to boost damage. Tactical uses high burst and debuffs of relatively short duration to boost damage. Unless of course you're a FAWDEMSCIMITARPWNZOOOR and this entire thread is moot. But if your're just looking for the difference between DC's and DHC's then fine there it is.
Pretty good arguement in my opinion.
There are a few ships, where different types of cannons use different hardpoints, which is quite noticable on ships like the Krenn or the Hegh`ta. BoPs with all-heavy cannons will only use the wingtip hardpoints, for example.
If you're into that sort of stuff and can live with potentially sacrificing a bit of DPS for looks, go ahead.
The only benefit to single cannons is the wider arc for slower vessels.
If you want to run non-heavy Dual Cannons, treat them more like Dual Beam Banks. You're going to need to offset the much higher energy drain(Overcapping weapon power and hopefully some sort of drain resistance). The only saving graces DCs have when you mitigate the energy draining penalty, is that they're a bit faster at applying damage when you switch between targets(you're not waiting on the longer recharge time of the DHCs) and the more consistent pressure/burn rate(you don't have to wait for the DHC's longer recharge to finish off that last sliver of health on an enemy). They still do less overall damage than DHCs, however.
Generally speaking, I don't recommend even considering running DCs unless you're flying a battlecruiser with the attack comm array command and EPtW.
Time will only tell!
If you read my post, I mentioned using a DC with a DHC, not running all DCs. They do parse higher when running all DHCs vs all DCs. However, if you have 4 front weapon slots, and run 3 DHCs, and 1 DC, you will be able to kill enemies faster, if they regenerate their shields. The sustained damage of the DC will help keep the shields down, so that when your DHCs, and the DC fire again, there is little to no shield in the way almost all the time.
And if the power drain of one, or two DCs firing at the same time the turrets do kills your weapons power without any buffs activated, then you will get the same issue if running more than 2 DHCs because of the slight delay between the first two, and the second set. Unlike beams, they don't all four fire at the exact same time.
So yes, if you just want to parse higher, then all DHCs will do that for you, because each time they fire, you are hitting more shields. But, if you want quicker kills, adding at least one DC will help with that, for the same reason the DBB do. They help keep shields down, or lower so the DHCs can do more damage to the hull.
True. But if you applied this same principle to DHCs wouldn't that mean they would hit harder for less power meaning DHCs win out again?
Because nowadays, the loss of power is meaningless. Nobody cares anymore if this weapons consumes more weapon power than this other. DHCS are better because they are far more powerful than single or just heavy cannons. And in this game, there is a point in which so low damage numbers means those weapons are useless, and thats the case of single cannons and heavy cannons. But more power consumption?? lol, that was relevant 2 or 3 years ago, now??? nah...
While power mitigation is far easier to deal with now-a-days, it is still relevant in that with each shot taking some away causes small amounts of dps loss.
DHC's even though 2 points hungrier than a DC, gets off its shots in shorter cycles consuming less overall WP, than the lengthier DC's shot cycle, being 2 points per cannon more efficient vs a DHC.
So I do agree with your statement 100%, there is still some tiny dps/WP deviation that needs be considered.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Agreed, could care less about the power consumption. Since most of my ships already give me a bonus to weapons power anyways. I tend to always set my power level to weapons. So, I never notice a drastic drop in weapons efficiency. If I'm concerned I just give myself a buffer with Plasma Distribution Manifold's.
I personally use Dual Heavy Cannons... I just like them better and they do the damage I want... Dual Cannons are okay if I want to do a lot of damage per second.
The main choice to make is:
Do you want...
-->Use DHCs. They get that +10% CrtD, and the firing cycle makes power management easier if you don't overcap enough to sustain other weapon types.
or
2) a greater number of shots for per hit procs like Tetryon Glider, DEM or "% chance on crit"?
-->Use DCs. You can, and often will, overcap enough that power isn't an issue; if you use powers or weapons that apply their procs per hit, you get twice as many hits (and therefore procs) out of a DC as you do a DHC, which is nothing to sneeze at.
This statement is incorrect. An update a while back applies the proc per firing cycle not per actual visual hit. This was done in order to close the gap between beams and cannons. DCs do not proc more than DHCs. If your statement were true turrets would be constantly procing.
No, he was correct. There are multiple types of procs. There are procs per cycle and procs per pulse/attack.
The 2.5% Phaser, Disruptor, Tetryon...are examples of per cycle.
Tet Glider, DEM, Omega Graviton Amplifier...are examples of per pulse/attack.
No sir. I may seem like I'm contridicting myself but those are as well are based on firing cycles. It just that it seems that way because of some weapons faster firing cycles. And typicaly people are using rapid fire or othe buffs when using those abillities. If I am wrong show me some data to back it up and I will politely concede to your wisdom.
Parse DEM - you'll see a DEM hit for each hit. It's one of the ways the double proc issue with FAW was discovered when DEM was not only triggering on the actual hit but also on the "hit" where the target was acquired.
Can go read the info on Omega Graviton Amplifier which states specifically that it is per attack rather than per cycle...
"Unlike other triggered effects, this proc can be triggered once per attack instead of once per attack cycle."
There are both per pulse/attack procs and per cycle procs in the game. The 4/3 cycle of the DCs over the 2/3 cycle of DHCs won't help with any of the per cycle procs - but - it does and can (depending on if it is a %proc or not) with the per pulse/attack procs.
Speaking about procs per pulse/per cycle, does anybody know if Degenerative Wave Signature's 1% proc is per cycle or per pulse? It's got a 10s CD on it after it procs...which has me leaning a certain way, but with a 1% proc - no way to really test. Anybody see an answer from a dev on that one by any chance?
edit: And just to make sure it's clear, Omega Graviton Amplifier is the trait that does the 751.4 damage and not the 2pc Assimilated which provides the weapon drain resistance (that's Omega Weapon Amplifier).
edit2: BTW, it's by no means an endorsement of DCs over DHCs...it wouldn't take much for the extra CrtD from the DHCs to give higher returns than you'd get from the two extra triggers.
I still use them over DC's because they parse higher. I believe this is caused by a combination of all the damage being front-loaded in the cycle and the power drain effect that's been mentioned already.