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Random thought.....Acc buff/debuff with speed
scurry5
Member Posts: 1,554 Arc User
So......
What if besides boosting your defense, high speeds also made your weapons fire less accurate?
Let's say, with different classes of ship having different speed thresholds before getting Acc reductions, and different rates at which additional speed reduced accuracy.
And ships at quarter-impulse or so had bonus accuracy.
You know, just a random thought so that going BANG! ZOOM! FAST! was a bit more of a double-edged sword. Would also make piloting and situational awareness more important - knowing when to slow down or speed up instead of just going at full speed permanently.
Thoughts?
What if besides boosting your defense, high speeds also made your weapons fire less accurate?
Let's say, with different classes of ship having different speed thresholds before getting Acc reductions, and different rates at which additional speed reduced accuracy.
And ships at quarter-impulse or so had bonus accuracy.
You know, just a random thought so that going BANG! ZOOM! FAST! was a bit more of a double-edged sword. Would also make piloting and situational awareness more important - knowing when to slow down or speed up instead of just going at full speed permanently.
Thoughts?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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First of all, you have to balance the amount of time it takes for your ACC to increase or decrease. then there's the threshold when the actual inc./dec. takes effect. And furthermore there's the implication on playstyle.
In an attack run you won't really feel the decrease if the inc./dec. speed is high enough, cause you usually stop (well, not stop, but lower your speed substantially), so your ACC will recover at this point. Plus things like Tractor Beam are also available and used by some escorts.
The other thing i'm not too keen seeing vanish, is the ability to chase an opponent. This would basically be impossible because (let's say the opponent can't be held) his increased defence vs. your decreased ACC will make nearly every shot miss, which would deprive escorts of a big chunk of their usability (as hunter-killers) and would make speed tanking even more of a thing. You would have to rely even more on CC and why not just play a tac captain in a sci boat with massive particle gens to circumvent the whole issue?
This would achieve Scurry's goal while avoiding the "chase" objection mentioned above. If you've got a guy dead in your gunsights, it doesn't matter how he moves as long as you can keep up with him, while flailing around like a spastic fish isn't going to help anyone's aim.
This sounds reasonable. By the way, does turning affect accuracy right now? A ship that is turning should get a defense bonus but an accuracy decrease.
This would be nice if only i would actually know where my ship is pointing at. So a real crosshair might be nice.
Also, i swear half of the time chasing someone i'm sure he's in my arc but my weapons aren't firing. Seems to have to do with their net-code though. The target is already outside the arc when a confirmation is send to the server or something like that.
Btw., wasn't there some talk about targeting computers/modules being introduced to escorts a while back?
Let's not forget the cannon shots that will twist and turn to hit a target.
And makes Scimitar even more OP
How so?
I was actually thinking of my non-cloaking escorts being able to speed tank and attack at the same time. As a general balance, I think I should be able to do one or the other but not both at the same time.
/sarcasm
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
Just when they make some changes to address the "vaping" ships, as well as making a persistent escort viable again. This change would completely backstep that and REQUIRE all tacs to be in vape ships. They would have to sneak up in cloak park unload and run away. The way things are now it is more viable to be in an uncloaked escort staying in the fight.
This change wouldn't favor the heavy ships as people would think. It would simply force tacs back into ships with cloaks more then they already are.
This is off topic, but when did they do anything to address vapers? I haven't seen one change that effects any of the abilities or consoles that bypass the hit table.
And as bypassing the hit table is the the exact cause of much of the grief, I'm not convinced anything material has changed.
And as far as making persistent escort viable, well remember that's how we got in this mess by adding acc into the game in the first place, releasing Tactical Escorts from reliance on the other two classes for dependable CC and repair.
I know you remember that time.
Adding ACC onto gear was a TRIBBLE poor idea.
Granting the best combined attack defense ability in the game to tactical ships only was a worse idea.
Granting GOBS of passive defense, and Critical Hit, and active defense to one faction was a disaster that pretty much everyone recognized.
Anyway, not important.
No change to accuracy based on the presented criteria.
Please, not again ....
I am not saying they have been on the right path the entire time. I think its obvious they are trying to curtail the vape style builds with there choices the last 3-6 months though.
You may not like the designation of "Escort" however it is a class I think most people would rather see in the game over the hit and run raider style. Hit and Run will always be super viable in kerrat and lower skill pvp matches. (I don't mean that to be offensive to anyone its just the way it has always been in STO) Raider style builds are effective against ships not built to counter them, there effective killing power goes down exponentially as target skill goes up. lol
The idea of an Escort to support (in fact escort) the support ships and the support ships supporting the escorts... is an elegant game design For that to work the game needed an Acc / Def Mechanic. Cryptic had that well balanced for a LONG time. They have messed that up since the Romulan faction release. Giving way to much gear that imparted +defense... and to much on the other side with ACC as well. It has lead to a lot of super boosted ships both ways, that break balance. I have ships that even if you stop them dead have more defense up then my old ships had while zooming around with Evasive. That is the main issue the mechanic is fine imo its the way Cryptic has piled the numbers onto the mechanic that has weighed it down.
lol why, because its spread thin and totally unoptimized so it does everything poorly?
your sorta making the argument i usually make defending AtB. these cruisers that use it, suck TRIBBLE without it, and not because they cant deal damage, its because they have no survivability wile trying to deal damage, UNLIKE escorts. they need that 'broken' uptime on heals AND tac skills both at the same time to have comparable damage skill uptime to escorts and because choosing not to be shot and outmaneuvered is not an option for cruisers like it is for escorts. take away AtB and they are just bad at everything, an achilles heal for the team, with useless damage and no way to impact the battle around him. if a tac cruiser is to exist AT ALL, it needs to be a tactical option equal to escorts. different sure, but equal in its own way.
The mechanic in STO though is fine. I used to work very well. It still does as a mechanic. The only real issue I see is all the +defense items / boffs / traits ect that make the system a bit of a joke.
We used to laugh at people not running EPTS... cause the difference between someone running shield resists and not was night and day. No resists, one volley and they where dead. With Resists games could drag on for hours.
Now we have the same Cryptic yo-yo effect with Defense vs Acc... Ships with lots of Defense are super hard to kill and ships with out much defense are sitting ducks.
With the shield mechanics it happened in stages as well... at one point Cryptic added so much +shield resists and regen and heals (on crit heals ect) that the only sure fire way to kill anyone was mulitple nukes. (one wasn't enough because gear alone and team buffs could pop them back up to 75% resist almost instantly). Now we are in the same boat with Defense. One nuke is often not enough as there are so many ways to pop your defense back up... or you can have items / boffs ect that simply can't be nuked. (really a rom toon with the right setup can have more defense parked then a KDF/FED cruiser has moving at top speed).
I really don't know how they fix this one with out nerfing a lot of things... I guess they could implement a DR formula to Defense and Acc both... and take another look at the Caps on both + and Negative defense.
You can see that when comparing to hit numbers based on increasing defense.
Say you take your stock Accurate (+10%), 9 Targeting (+15%), and [Acc]x3 (+30%) for +55% Bonus Accuracy. Drop that out against +55% Bonus Defense to give you the base 100% to hit.
55% BA vs. 55% BD: 100% to hit
55% BA vs. 65% BD: 90.9% to hit; -9.1% to hit
55% BA vs. 75% BD: 83.3% to hit; -7.6% to hit
55% BA vs. 85% BD: 76.9% to hit; -6.4% to hit
55% BA vs. 95% BD: 71.4% to hit; -5.5% to hit
55% BA vs. 105% BD: 66.7% to hit; -4.7% to hit
55% BA vs. 115% BD: 62.5% to hit; -4.2% to hit
55% BA vs. 125% BD: 58.8% to hit; -3.7% to hit
55% BA vs. 135% BD: 55.6% to hit; -3.2% to hit
55% BA vs. 145% BD: 52.6% to hit; -3.0% to hit
55% BA vs. 155% BD: 50.0% to hit; -2.6% to hit
Each increase of BD results in a smaller decrease in the chance to hit. There are diminishing returns as you continue to add Bonus Defense.
edit:
In a similar fashion with Accuracy Overflow, we see the following...
0% BD vs. 0% BA: 100% to hit; no +CrtH/+CrtD
0% BD vs. 10% BA: 109.1% to hit; +1.14% CrtH, +4.54% CrtD
0% BD vs. 20% BA: 116.7% to hit; +2.08% CrtH (+0.94%), +8.33% CrtD (+3.79%)
0% BD vs. 30% BA: 123.1% to hit; +2.88% CrtH (+0.80%), +11.54% CrtD (+3.21%)
0% BD vs. 40% BA: 128.6% to hit; +3.57% CrtH (+0.69%), +14.29% CrtD (+2.75%)
0% BD vs. 50% BA: 133.3% to hit; +4.17% CrtH (+0.60%), +16.67% CrtD (+2.38%)
0% BD vs. 60% BA: 137.5% to hit; +4.69% CrtH (+0.52%), +18.75% CrtD (+2.08%)
My point is the mechanic itself is fine. There is no issue with ACC and Def in the game. In fact the game would be very bad with out them.
The issue as always is Cryptic having a need to willynilly stack stats on everything and everything. Then to top it off take skills with stats on them and throw more and more ways to give them 100% or darn near 100% uptimes.
Considering the Run away defense issue... did we really need a new doff that resets evasive, a great source of on demand +Defense.
The mechanic is good and needed... just like shield resistance is a good mechanic and needed. What isn't needed is Cryptics moronic need to stack stats to the cap... adding so many ways to boost stats that you can easily build to have 100% at cap on things like Shield DR Hull DR and Defense.
I was talking more about the actual stat on your own ship having a DR formula not just the firing mechanic.
We are all running around on toons that have much more then 55 bonus defense.
I can make an escort stay north of 100 pretty darn near 100% of the time. I was thinking something more like hull resistance where adding more and more starts to be less and less effective. (Ditto for the Acc mechanic as with traits weapon mods consoles ect its possible to stack that up pretty high as well... and Cryptic isn't done releasing more acc and targeting stat items)