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Would love to see rank detached from level

adastra1930adastra1930 Member Posts: 24 Arc User
edited August 2014 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
Just thought I'd post and see if anyone else is like-minded!

I'd like to see a ranking system in game that's not tied to level. Think: I could be a level 50, but still a Commander. It probably seems pointless, but to me it would be more "realistic"!

I'm thinking like Cmdr. Riker in TNG...he had more than enough experience to be his own ship's captain, but chose repeatedly to remain a commander aboard the Enterprise. And then there's the ep where Counselor Troi has to take the practical exams to get her commander's rank...I'd like to see that in STO, so you can accumulate experience but have to pass a specific mission or set of tasks to go up in rank, which (I imagine!) is more how it is in the real world...

What do you guys think?
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Twitter @adastra1930
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Post edited by adastra1930 on
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    puttenhamputtenham Member Posts: 1,052 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    yes, you should be a captain the whole game, and instead of your rank being what denotes your level, it can be your teir of ship..

    ie, if you were looking for items in the exchange, instead of listing it by rank, it would be listed as t1, t2, t3 and so on..

    it makes no sense that 3/4's of Starfleet is admirals.. and I am tired of my npc being addressed as admiral...

    to be honest, I wouldn't mind the current ranking system if I could choose the title npc's address me as ingame.. that would be a nifty feature.. the tech is already there for them to recognize what level you are, just make it so we can switch between them...
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    starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Only method is to have us able to choose rank similar to how we choose our title. Also certain titles could be used as ranks like Master Chef and Agent. Rank only applies to what npcs call us. As it is, there is not much difference between a Lieutenant and Vice Admiral besides the ships and equipment they can use and the content they can do.
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    tilarium1979tilarium1979 Member Posts: 567 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Something that's come up sense the beta days. The best thing can do is make a toggle like title that lets you select the rank the game refers to you as. Not everyone wants to be an Admiral/General. All of my Fed captains are just that, Captains. They refer to themselves as Captains, they were Captain rank. I'm thinking with DR that I might finally let my main get promoted to Admiral... maybe :P
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    yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    It would also be nice to get demoted back to captain, once you are admiral.
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    https://youtu.be/d-f3bscZa0E?t=105
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
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    captainhunter1captainhunter1 Member Posts: 1,627 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Agreed - Rank should be detached from Level.

    You would earn a Title unlock as you advanced in Levels for all ranks, just as we do now, however you wouldn't be FORCED to use it - you could chouse ANY title from the list you have for that character.

    See: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1116431

    :)
    My consolidated list of game improvements for STO:
    arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1203368/pve-content-a-list-of-gamewide-polishing-pass-suggestions
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    jodarkriderjodarkrider Member Posts: 2,097 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Definitelly supporting this. At least give us option to not be addressed as Admirals. If someone wants to be adressed us such, let them. But there are people, and it seems there's quite a bit of them, who would prefer other rank. Usually Captain. :)
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    willamsheridanwillamsheridan Member Posts: 1,189 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I love my Vice Admiral (and Soon Admiral or Fleet Admiral) insignia.

    STO makes no sense in so many ways from the Alien ships at the Center of the Federation over Weapons to Ship customization. The Rank is not really a Problem here.

    Yes, some NPCs call you Admiral but others, in Foundry missions, call you Captain.

    If you want to be a Captain just wear the Uniform and Rank and ignore this little Rank insignia in the Corner of the Screen.
    It also makes no sense that we already know several 5 star Admirals, from former Menn Hilo, who is juat a Rear Admiral without a job now to Admiral Quinn and Zav Glasch Trem, Akaar, Yanishev and even the Vet. Dilithium Refiner at the Academy. Thats more fleet admirals then we ever saw in the Movies and series (there were just 4 fleet Admirals, all during the TOS Movie Era, when we also had several Captains on the Enterprise, and its safe to assume that not more than one or two of those FADMs served at the same time. and at the Time of TNG Fleet admiral was a position not a rank and held by several Vice Admirals)

    I just hope they Add the Proper Admiral Ranks also to the 2360 Vice Admiral Uniform (TNG, Season 1)
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    mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    One of the oldest ideas probably about the game. I do not believe it will happen, consideirng how long it failed to happen.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
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    mictacmictac Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I dont know how many times its gotta be said captain ist a legit rank its a position little diffrence captain is just whos in charge of a ship rank has no meaning in that regaurd even irl navy its the same think.
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    walshicuswalshicus Member Posts: 1,314 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I 100% agree. The shows are about one ship, one captain, one crew.
    http://mmo-economics.com - analysing the economic interactions in MMOs.
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    fallenhawkfallenhawk Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I like my rank as is and can't wait to be a Fleet Admiral . Now let's drop this topic forever more. <_<
    >_>
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    I can still fight.
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    ashrod63ashrod63 Member Posts: 384 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    mictac wrote: »
    I dont know how many times its gotta be said captain ist a legit rank its a position little diffrence captain is just whos in charge of a ship rank has no meaning in that regaurd even irl navy its the same think.

    In Starfleet it is both a rank and a position, as it has been in the various shows. That's how it works there, so it's how it works here.
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    thetaninethetanine Member Posts: 1,367 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    In STO, click the U key (default char. screen), click the Edit Record button -> Personnel Record popup -> Title button -> Choose Your Title.

    NOW, the devs need to, on their end, to Get Char'Rank'=Char'Title' in the SQL so that the title YOU want to be called in NPC dialog is actually triggered live, in the game.

    Everything is there for this to work, it just takes a little manipulation of the code. So instead of [Rank] as you might use in the Foundry, it would be [Title].

    It's that easy. Really.

    T9

    P.S. See HERE (Imgur Image)

    Large Version Here
    STAR TREK
    lD8xc9e.png
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    tilarium1979tilarium1979 Member Posts: 567 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    thetanine wrote: »
    In STO, click the U key (default char. screen), click the Edit Record button -> Personnel Record popup -> Title button -> Choose Your Title.

    NOW, the devs need to, on their end, to Get Char'Rank'=Char'Title' in the SQL so that the title YOU want to be called in NPC dialog is actually triggered live, in the game.

    Everything is there for this to work, it just takes a little manipulation of the code. So instead of [Rank] as you might use in the Foundry, it would be [Title].

    It's that easy. Really.

    T9

    P.S. See HERE (Imgur Image)

    Large Version Here

    Problem with that, as the devs have said already (don't ask for a quote, not going to go digging for one) is that if they link it to title then ANY title is viable.

    Academy Graduate
    Annihilator
    Annihilated
    Boothyby's Favorite
    Causality
    Cheated Death
    Colonist

    etc, etc, etc

    That's just a small sample of the titles that wouldn't work to well, there are ALOT more of them then that.
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    adastra1930adastra1930 Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I've heard the "too many admirals" argument a lot already elsewhere, that's not really what I'm getting at! I don't mind all the admirals :) But I feel like gaining a rank is almost like an accident, you don't get it for a specific reason, just that you *happened* to get it. It's the only part of the game that I find really jarring from a RP perspective.
    =/\= ==================== = /\ =
    Fleet Admiral Kenna
    Producer/Host Priority One Podcast
    Twitter @adastra1930
    Per Aspera, Ad Astra
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    captainhunter1captainhunter1 Member Posts: 1,627 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    tilarium1979 wrote: »
    Problem with that, as the devs have said already (don't ask for a quote, not going to go digging for one) is that if they link it to title then ANY title is viable.

    Academy Graduate
    Annihilator
    Annihilated
    Boothyby's Favorite
    Causality
    Cheated Death
    Colonist

    etc, etc, etc

    That's just a small sample of the titles that wouldn't work to well, there are ALOT more of them then that.

    Who cares?

    YOU are the only one who will see that title used in the dialog boxes. If you chose to be addressed as "Moist" instead of "Doctor" or "Ambassador" that is YOUR problem.

    What is the big deal here? We already have these titles in-game OVER peoples heads, why can't WE chose them regarding how NPCs address us? It really is that simple. There is so much great customization in this game...and THIS is an issue? Why?
    My consolidated list of game improvements for STO:
    arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1203368/pve-content-a-list-of-gamewide-polishing-pass-suggestions
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    sentinel64sentinel64 Member Posts: 900 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Just change current progression names to Captain 1,2,3 and so on to 60; then allow player to choose an available rank/title passed on level achieved. If player wants to be an Admiral then it will be available at Captain 40, 45, 50, 55 and 60.
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    havokreignhavokreign Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    You gain 10 levels and increase in rank. It's not like you sit around doing nothing and they make you a Captain or Admiral.

    It takes 5-6 story missions to gain 10 levels, give or take a few if you're using DoFF's or PvE queues, or what order you choose to do the missions in.

    But there is progression there, for whatever reason some are choosing not to see it.
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    capnmanxcapnmanx Member Posts: 1,452 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    tilarium1979 wrote: »
    Problem with that, as the devs have said already (don't ask for a quote, not going to go digging for one) is that if they link it to title then ANY title is viable.

    Academy Graduate
    Annihilator
    Annihilated
    Boothyby's Favorite
    Causality
    Cheated Death
    Colonist

    etc, etc, etc

    That's just a small sample of the titles that wouldn't work to well, there are ALOT more of them then that.

    They could split titles into two different categories, so that only rank titles may be selected as forms of address.
    My old (and now mostly obsolete) exploration suggestions thread. Give it a read. :)
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    adastra1930adastra1930 Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    havokreign wrote: »
    You gain 10 levels and increase in rank. It's not like you sit around doing nothing and they make you a Captain or Admiral.

    It takes 5-6 story missions to gain 10 levels, give or take a few if you're using DoFF's or PvE queues, or what order you choose to do the missions in.

    But there is progression there, for whatever reason some are choosing not to see it.

    I've gained a few levels just doing doff stuff and jumping around a bit (accolades). As much as I love the boost of getting a new rank, I just feel like it should be more targeted for actual contribution to the storyline/Starfleet/KDF/etc.
    =/\= ==================== = /\ =
    Fleet Admiral Kenna
    Producer/Host Priority One Podcast
    Twitter @adastra1930
    Per Aspera, Ad Astra
    =/\= ==================== =/\=
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    snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    captainhunter1 wrote: »
    Who cares?

    YOU are the only one who will see that title used in the dialog boxes. If you chose to be addressed as "Moist" instead of "Doctor" or "Ambassador" that is YOUR problem.

    What is the big deal here? We already have these titles in-game OVER peoples heads, why can't WE chose them regarding how NPCs address us? It really is that simple. There is so much great customization in this game...and THIS is an issue? Why?

    I agree. I really think MOIST Captainhunter1 rolls off the tongue so much better than Rear-Admiral-Lower-Left-Hand-Corner-Half Captainhunter1 anyways. (yes I'm being silly, but my point is serious and I do agree with what you're saying).
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    adverberoadverbero Member Posts: 2,045 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    captainhunter1 wrote: »
    Who cares?

    YOU are the only one who will see that title used in the dialog boxes. If you chose to be addressed as "Moist" instead of "Doctor" or "Ambassador" that is YOUR problem.

    What is the big deal here? We already have these titles in-game OVER peoples heads, why can't WE chose them regarding how NPCs address us? It really is that simple. There is so much great customization in this game...and THIS is an issue? Why?

    Exactly, We can make Vice Admiral Deep dish Pizza the captain of the USS Stay Puff Marshmallow man if we want to. giving us the titles we want isn't all that different.

    And it has no effect on what player see since they already see our selected title anyway
    solar_approach_by_chaos_sandwhich-d74kjft.png


    These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
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    adverberoadverbero Member Posts: 2,045 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    havokreign wrote: »
    You gain 10 levels and increase in rank. It's not like you sit around doing nothing and they make you a Captain or Admiral.

    It takes 5-6 story missions to gain 10 levels, give or take a few if you're using DoFF's or PvE queues, or what order you choose to do the missions in.

    But there is progression there, for whatever reason some are choosing not to see it.

    Proper Admirals earn their rank by the DOFF system alone,Captaining a Desk is the way to do it , engage Paperwork, full spreadsheet !
    solar_approach_by_chaos_sandwhich-d74kjft.png


    These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
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    snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    adverbero wrote: »
    Proper Admirals earn their rank by the DOFF system alone,Captaining a Desk is the way to do it , engage Paperwork, full spreadsheet !

    Would Memo At Will be an acceptable follow up to that?

    Man, if ever I needed Clippy to clarify something, it's now!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    ccarmichael07ccarmichael07 Member Posts: 755 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    /signed, sealed and delivered on a gas emission torpedo

    Retcon the rank structure, and fix it!

    "You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
    I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
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    valastsarranvalastsarran Member Posts: 46
    edited August 2014
    This is how I think they really should have designed the ranking system in Starfleet (others can be derived with their own names off this basis). In keeping with a "Naval" approach to starships, from least to highest: (I've only included notes on the atypical duties of a Flag Officer, because the others are pretty self-explanatory)

    Commissioned Officers
    • Cadet
    • Ensign
    • Lieutenant (Junior Grade)
    • Lieutenant (Senior Grade)
    • Lieutenant Commander
    • Commander
    • Captain (Junior Grade)
    • Captain (Senior Grade)

    Flag Officers
    • Commodore
      (Usually in command of a small "flotilla" or squadron of starships)
    • Rear Admiral
      (Usually in command of a small fixed outpost, ie: space stations)
    • Vice Admiral
      (Usually in command of larger fixed outposts, ie: DS9)
    • Admiral
      (Typically the command staff of the Admiral of the Fleet, usually based wherever the Admiral of the Fleet decides to call his HQ)
    • Fleet Admiral
      (Admirals directly responsible for whole groups of squadrons of starships responsible for certain sectors of space, ie: Home Fleet, Second Fleet, Third Fleet, etc.)
    • Admiral of the Fleet
      (THE man in charge - *All* military concerns start and stop here)
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    talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    valastsarran wrote: »
    This is how I think they really should have designed the ranking system in Starfleet (others can be derived with their own names off this basis). In keeping with a "Naval" approach to starships, from least to highest: (I've only included notes on the atypical duties of a Flag Officer, because the others are pretty self-explanatory)

    Commissioned Officers
    • Cadet
    • Ensign
    • Lieutenant (Junior Grade)
    • Lieutenant (Senior Grade)
    • Lieutenant Commander
    • Commander
    • Captain (Junior Grade)
    • Captain (Senior Grade)

    Flag Officers
    • Commodore
      (Usually in command of a small "flotilla" or squadron of starships)
    • Rear Admiral
      (Usually in command of a small fixed outpost, ie: space stations)
    • Vice Admiral
      (Usually in command of larger fixed outposts, ie: DS9)
    • Admiral
      (Typically the command staff of the Admiral of the Fleet, usually based wherever the Admiral of the Fleet decides to call his HQ)
    • Fleet Admiral
      (Admirals directly responsible for whole groups of squadrons of starships responsible for certain sectors of space, ie: Home Fleet, Second Fleet, Third Fleet, etc.)
    • Admiral of the Fleet
      (THE man in charge - *All* military concerns start and stop here)

    You messed up with Rear Admirals. Rear Admirals can command small outposts, but they can also command squadrons as well.
    afMSv4g.jpg
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    valastsarranvalastsarran Member Posts: 46
    edited August 2014
    With this command structure in place, this is how I would break down the "levels" to rank (if they desire to do it this way - because for all intents and purposes, after the opening stories, you are a "Captain" of a starship, regardless of level/rank). However, even in wartime - lower ranked officers could be given a "Field" Promotion, regardless of actual rank, to act as a higher ranking officer until such time as wartime is ended and performance of said officer can be evaluated and "fast-tracked" through the process to end up attaining the rank they are standing in for.

    Commissioned Officers
    1. Cadet (Level 0-4)
    2. Ensign(Level 5-9)
    3. Lieutenant (Junior Grade) (Level 10-19)
    4. Lieutenant (Senior Grade) (Level 20-29)
    5. Lieutenant Commander (Level 30-39)
    6. Commander (Level 40-49)
    7. Captain (Junior Grade) (Level 50-54)
    8. Captain (Senior Grade) (Level 55-59)

    Flag Officers
    1. Commodore (Level 60)
      (Usually in command of a small "flotilla" or squadron of starships)
      **I would stop at this level, possible award certain players the title of "Fleet Admiral" - but nothing more**
    2. Rear Admiral
      (Usually in command of a small fixed outpost, ie: space stations)
    3. Vice Admiral
      (Usually in command of larger fixed outposts, ie: DS9)
    4. Admiral
      (Typically the command staff of the Admiral of the Fleet, usually based wherever the Admiral of the Fleet decides to call his HQ)
    5. Fleet Admiral
      (Admirals directly responsible for whole groups of squadrons of starships responsible for certain sectors of space, ie: Home Fleet, Second Fleet, Third Fleet, etc.)
    6. Admiral of the Fleet
      (THE man in charge - *All* military concerns start and stop here)
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    valastsarranvalastsarran Member Posts: 46
    edited August 2014
    talonxv wrote: »
    You messed up with Rear Admirals. Rear Admirals can command small outposts, but they can also command squadrons as well.

    I know, but only gave the more typical duties of each type of rank - things can be defined and or added as the Admiral of the Fleet determines.
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