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Intrepid Retrofit... Retrofit...
vegie0
Member Posts: 480 Arc User
Ok, we all know they Ablative Generator fell very short of what it was intended to do. In fact it just about made the ship hilarious in PvP. Every time I hit that button im essentially saying dont shoot me its useless.... but in 15 seconds I am gonna die...
So how do you tackle this problem? You make the console and ship work differently. I propose the following.
Console Ablative Generator:
Activation: 2 seconds.
Cool down: 10 Minutes. (Similar to the MVAE cooldown)
Effect: Grant +900 Damage Resistsance Rating, Beam Weapons Offline, Torpedo Cooldown +100% (make it so torpedo boats cant hope to just be lol invulnerable). Creates Ablative Armor with 30,000 Hull, once 30,000 Hull is destroyed the Ablative Generator Fails, Ablative armor is not effected by heals. Ablative Generator Regenerates Hull at about 10% per minute.
Ok, so the ability should be Toggle only. No time out on its up time. Why? When you double the time for the torpedos you essentially make it so the ship cant really do high dmg from under the shell. You also make it so the console is a reliable way to defend your ship from destruction. Would it be usefull in PvE? Hell yes, I bet i see atleast 1 per game of an Elite STF. Your basically making it so an intrepid can run in and not die against the borg. Is it Killable in PvP? yes, either Heavy Damage, Disabling the Aux system, or Stunning the ship could still remove the armor. And 30,000 hull gets eaten in a few minutes under heavy fire, even with a 96% resist to incoming damage.
However, having just the one console leaves open the possibility for special Gravity Well spam or TBR kill builds. To mitigate this and reduce the effectiveness. I would make it the Enchanced Ablative Armor. Available as an effect of a 3 set Intrepid Pack. This way, several console slots and weapon slots must be used up to allow this.
I welcome feedback as Voyager is one of the iconic ships and it seems a shame her more infamous feature is so worthless.:P
So how do you tackle this problem? You make the console and ship work differently. I propose the following.
Console Ablative Generator:
Activation: 2 seconds.
Cool down: 10 Minutes. (Similar to the MVAE cooldown)
Effect: Grant +900 Damage Resistsance Rating, Beam Weapons Offline, Torpedo Cooldown +100% (make it so torpedo boats cant hope to just be lol invulnerable). Creates Ablative Armor with 30,000 Hull, once 30,000 Hull is destroyed the Ablative Generator Fails, Ablative armor is not effected by heals. Ablative Generator Regenerates Hull at about 10% per minute.
Ok, so the ability should be Toggle only. No time out on its up time. Why? When you double the time for the torpedos you essentially make it so the ship cant really do high dmg from under the shell. You also make it so the console is a reliable way to defend your ship from destruction. Would it be usefull in PvE? Hell yes, I bet i see atleast 1 per game of an Elite STF. Your basically making it so an intrepid can run in and not die against the borg. Is it Killable in PvP? yes, either Heavy Damage, Disabling the Aux system, or Stunning the ship could still remove the armor. And 30,000 hull gets eaten in a few minutes under heavy fire, even with a 96% resist to incoming damage.
However, having just the one console leaves open the possibility for special Gravity Well spam or TBR kill builds. To mitigate this and reduce the effectiveness. I would make it the Enchanced Ablative Armor. Available as an effect of a 3 set Intrepid Pack. This way, several console slots and weapon slots must be used up to allow this.
I welcome feedback as Voyager is one of the iconic ships and it seems a shame her more infamous feature is so worthless.:P
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by vegie0 on
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Breaking news MVAM cools itself down in 3 mins.
Basically everything you said about "what's wrong with this ship" is about you unable to use a science ship. Didn't even try to point out its major defect; the boff layout.
IMO, at least.
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Hi, ok, maybe im wrong about the Cool Down on the MVAE? Sure I will give you that. Let me help you get to know me though. I feel we dont know eachother well enough.
My first Character was Science, also my primary. I fly the folowing ships for PvE, D'Kora (Tanks like a Monster and does some decent damage), Intrepid Retrofit (funny for letting Gravity Well slaughter borg Probes), Wells Temporal Science Vessel (Its just a monster for a Sci ship), and lastly I occasionally use the Fleet Excel (very similar to the D'Kora)
In PvP i use Sci ships before Cruisers, and I really dont use Escorts. Although I do own a few, but they just collect dust in my Hangar...
So, no I dont seem to suffer from a Defeciency in being able to use Science ships. Sorry that assumption on your part was a bad one. But yes, you are right the Buff Layout is a bit rough. But that ship spams like none other. And it does have the required stations to be able to defend its self. It can cycle TT, spam tons of Sci shield heals and buffs, and even still has a slot for EPTS and RSP. Granted however it cant cycle them effectively. But thanks for your input. Perhaps research your points a bit more first.:D
I do have to agree with you here. I think the Buff layout while not Ideal for Damage dealing and going all "Kirk". The buff layout does effectively render a support role to the Intrepid. Which would suit and Immortal spam type ship. But a lot of players that copy and paste builds from the forums wont agree. As anything that seems to require more then the space bar to defeat is OP. Even if they cant be defeated by what they are trying to beat....
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
I like the Idea of making the ablative armor, actually ablative, as the name suggests
I would like to see it made slightly more viable too. I think the push of this ship to an invulnerable spam ship is a bit harsh, but i think that Ablative has sufficient weaknesses that it can be dealt with and make the ship have its own unique feel.
You are thinking of Quantum absorbtion, and I agree. The recent addition of the Romulan Powers really shows that this type of change can be done very easilly. In fact im sure it would be something they could even include by the time Delta Rising arrived. Granted it is probably a bit late in the game to push this through, but I imagine the code required is all there already.
With it, I meant the Intrepid.
The Intrepid is a bad ship. Period. Overspecialized like Defiant and Galaxy are, with too little engi to survive. A ship with LtComm sci and Cmdr Sci is more tanky than one with Ltcmdr engi and comm sci? No.
Now to this:
Wait what? Under this logic here it is put in another way: Quantum Focused Shield Bubble... Everytime I hit that button I'm essentially saying don't shoot me it's useless, but in 10 seconds I'm gonna die.
(explains why and how for me should be buffed to godlike levels)
Intrepid needs a buff, but not in the terms you said.
Ok, clearly you dislike the ship. But the Defiant, Intrepid, and Galaxy can still get kills. You seem to be under the impression that the only viable ship is the best ship. Thats not the case. Im sorry you play like "Kirk" and go Pew Pew until the game says you win. But fortunately I can say the Intrepid has and can hold its own. Im sorry you are not creative enough to figure out how. But please, your passive agressive attack on my person and this ship is not helping. Im sorry this is not the change you are wanting. But i dont believe you fly science ships. I imagine you only fly what people have told you how to build. And i bet at that it has Aux2Bat in every build.
Galaxy gets kills? When?
Defiant gets kills... if it doesn't pop earlier.
Intrepid can do sci stuff but it's too squishy to survive on its own.
I'm no superkirk. I'm just telling you that the ship, as whole, needs a buff. Not its freaking innate console that does just fine. http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1179431
Funny to see how you go on the defensive after the argument has been satured. FYI, I play science. With a Vesta. It can mirror exactly the boff and console layout of the Intrepid using the Strategic variant. In no way such heavy setup would have saved me from destruction in PvP.
Intrepid needs the LtComm switched to universal. It would breathe fresh air for it. I'm sorry you're being narrow-minded on this topic that you fail to see the point. I'm speaking with facts, you from my side, with a QQ regarding a console.
As for the console, it's an interesting idea. The voth shield console has no counter that I know of and allows the user to continues to fire as normal with a 3 min cd. Also quantum absorption can have some DR, I think a similar fix could be used for the Intrepid console.
More so the inability of the player to adapt to something new. The only players who say ships like the intrepid, galaxy, and defiant are obsolete and useless are the ones who so.ply don't have the ability or the desire to even try. They see the layout and give up immediately because they're closed minded and intellectually unable to come up with something new. These players get all their ideas from the forum ship build threads and sometimes don't even make changes. Its a copy and paste mentality. They see it work, and instead of coming up with a variant, they copy it exactly, and if they fail with it, obviously its garbage and it can't work.
Let me guess you do still use Aux2Bat... So, im guessing you hide in your vesta trying not to die while the Evul Klingun Escorts pew pew at you. Piece of advice, use what you are good at. Having heavy science allows the Intrepid a great many support options and Crowd Control capabilities. I can litterally, TBR half of a team across a map, drop a gwell on the healer to TRIBBLE anchor him down. Pop FBP so they cant stop me. Nuke the one who is quick enough to hit APO or Polarize Hull and LOL as i leave 1 or 2 of their team to fend for themselves without a healer or support. Best part is i can spam out all of that in just 3 short seconds, then Pop RSP, Scramble sensors and just make the battle go from organzied and very structured to absolute CHAOS in a matter of seconds. I dont think you know what its like to be on the recieving end of a good Sci Wizard. You can do hilarious abouts of chaos. To the point where in my above demonstration, the opposing team is now disorganzied, damaged, seperated, drained, and anchored without you even hitting 1 torpedo. Sorry but you mash the space bar and fly in a circle. That is not what sci ships are ment for. They are ment to cause that chaos and prevent the enemy from helping eachother in any way shape or form.
Now as to QQ, you are throwing that out there because your "Facts" are less then accurate. Move on, you have nothing to contribute here other then the typical "My defiant needs a battle cloak" , "the cloak shouldnt be a console" "My Galaxy doesnt destroy a BOP, thats not cannon"... these arguements have nothing to do with the viability of the console i am discussing.
Thank you for keeping on topic, the other guy cant... but I am glad you approve, and I hope the Devs do too. Would be interesting to keep the sci heavy loadout and give the Intrepid the ability to focus on just that area. The first true Support focused ship that isnt a liability needing to FBP and RSP to live.
You are clearly a ship builder yourself. And there is no feeling like when you slap together your own ship and hope it works for the first time. Then BAM, nobody has seen something like it, or a ship built that way attack in that manner. Makes it look as if a ship is Over Powered for quite a while. But then again, people have to be like you and the other ship builders. Adabtable and creative.
lol WUT?
I like confusion builds for a more support oriented role, and you are right. The intrepid in a drain capacity is just about unmatched. Seeing people have difficulty keeping shields up let alone weapons is something that is funny to watch. But i still think the ship could be so much more viable in other areas if the console allowed it to keep the sci heavy style and be somewhat hard to kill. But thats why i would want to see its own damage be crippled as a result. By destroying torpedo recharge times.
and ya, those tier 4 retrofits are the worst ships of their type. the defiant isn't as bad off, but compared to the best sci ships, that have power creeped twice as far as any cruiser and escort creep has, the intrepid is pretty bad. at least with sci though, there are enough system cooldowns that the abundance of sci skills you have don't leave you with slots you literally cant fill without making your ship weaker, trying to fill everything
Well with the science crafting trait, a Doffed TBR Intrepid might actually be good since 1 crit rulls all science powers. Then you can fit a GW, PH, and 2x HE, ST, and TSS. Then I would use EPTE1, EPTS2 and TT1 with TS2 and grav torpedoes. Full aux and with the t4 Nukara rep trait and you should be putting out some decent shield penetrating damage.
Congratulations on creating your perfect world. Too bad Aux 2 Damp negates TBR and GW, Sci team clears SNB, scrambles, Jams, Siphons. Sum a ton of other counters to these like Omega. That little self-glorious moments... it makes me lol. You're assuming that other players are just some idiots who can't counter your attacks? Congratulations?
Done here.
Third breaking news: Z and X are my binds for rapid cycling powers. Nothing on spacebar.
I think people lose sight of what you are discussing though drunk, I know you are a ship builder and have more expertise in this area then just about anybody. But bad ship doesnt mean it is a 1 hit quit ship. You can expect the Intrepid not to perform as well as any of the other power creep ships. But it will still put up a nasty fight. And given a pilot with the apporpriate skill, it can beat superior ships that are using copy and paste builds. But I would like to see the Intrepid console act more like it should...
Ha, thats true, a crit on TBR is hell for damage. But i think you are right. Science ships are built for the extreme penetrating damge atm. Only wish they could focus on disables again.
Yeah that's how I got my fleet nebula back in the game. Pulling TBR, GW, warp poo, APD and TS with grav torpedo can set up an escort really well for a good clean kill.
There are counters to things like Gravity Well? Lol, you really dont get it do you. Im forcing other players out of FEAR to carry those things. Its not a 1 trick poney. When you wait for the Opportune Moment. You can do a Sci Alpha, yes... a Sci Alpha... you spam the abilities at the right time to catch an opponent un able to defend themselves. Stop while you are ahead. You clearly are an A2B wanna be that is mad that the ship does things you dont want... due stop.
Ha, my builds are pretty convensional now. Lol, but thanks i do take that as High Praise, he just doesnt seem to understand i am arguing about something totally different then he is.
The fleet nebula is super tanky though. I think the Intrepid has a bit more trouble.
there's a difference, my friend, between making an unconventional build work, and pretending the impossible. the Intrepid is too strict with its setup. You get diminshing return. The ship pays too much for its science focus. I'm the first one who wants a better Intrepid, but this is achieved by giving it flexibility, not enduring on something that is fallacious already, stat wise.
yeah, I'm just theory crafting. The Intrepid does have better turn and speed on it's side, and with all the CC going on that's a plus.
If you want a fun little ship, try the mirror nova. It's crazy cheap, has a fun, unique boff layout, and zips like an escort.
Dude, stop. If you cant make the ship work doesnt mean that i can not make it work. Just move on. You are arguing the buff loadout is bad. Which has LITTERALLY nothing to do with what my Thread is about.... Please discuss the console... not your own issues with the ship... move on...
I love CC in sci ships. It makes amazing spam. That is something people lost faith in, so many builds are optimized to fight the current flavor of the month. And that means people are once again vulnerable to sci spam.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1053481
What do you think?
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I actually have very high hopes for that. Great minds think a like i suppose. Good idea with the 80k hull to. With 1 Neutro i get about 95% resists across the board. Which means that 30k DPS spikes can still kill an armored Intrepid. I do like the idea of set bonus being astrometrics. But i think the general concensus here is that the console is not acceptable in the current condition.