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Fed/Engineer/Cruisers need extreme help!
ajgamer1701
Member Posts: 191 Arc User
Plain and simply put, engineers esp feds in cruisers with their "commander engineering(HAHAHA WHAT A JOKE)" boff seating and Engineer skipper abilities in general DESERVE an extreme re balance! We, engineers are the laughing stock of the whole game, its quite sad, and I am hoping for such a rebalance in coming s10 delta rising, and if not, then ,.... WHEN can we expect this? I mean in PvE we (engineers) are not bad yet just a bit lacking but in PVP, were absolutely HORRIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sick and tired!!!!!! 75% dmg resist % or drm scales need an extreme rebalance as well, and I am NOT the only 1! Engineers and cruisers need an extreme overhaul! by at least 50% . make engineers mean something again! We have been "NERFED" for FAR 2 LONG!, and DONT tell me its my build cause its not, max defense builds in any engy in any cruiser is killed in nothing flat pvp by only 1-2 let alone 5 focus, if any1 should be able to tank 5/1 it should be engy in cruis not sci in cruis,/carrier and certainly NOT tac's in escort's with very little heals that are not even necessary because you cant put a 1% DENT in their shields with max attack no matter what weapon type even with eptW3 and elite flt WC with % for every power lvl over 75, it all means ZILTCH! Escorts/tacs and sci/tacs/rom dreads have it all , the rest have NOTHING! so Y do I spend time on this game if my choice in type toons is limited to sci/tac/eng when engy is the bottom of totem pole? In space, ... I mean on ground were almost unbeatable but shouldn't mean we cant do same in space so what gives?
Things are only impossible until they are NOT! (Picard)
Post edited by ajgamer1701 on
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Comments
Also you shouldn't be able to tank 5/1. I don't know nothing about PvP but to tank the entire enemy team is not what you should want to achieve. By maximizing your resists and stuff you lose most of your offensive potential as well as your support potential and in PvP a pure tank means nothing. Cause players don't check for the aggro you generate but will choose their targets. So a tank that's able to heal his team is an interesting target for the enemy team and the longer he is able to hold it (Miracle Worker x2 ftw via special engi-trait) the better.
Yeah that's about it. It's your build :-)
However NOOOOOO!!!!!!!! NO ship should be able to tank 5/1. Read my comment again!
What happens, if what you want would be achievable (tanking 5 on 1)? Take a look at one hypothetic premade 5vs5, one team using 5 of those tanks. The result is a draw because no one is gonna destroy anyone. That's why those tanks should not be able to work and gladly they don't work mechanics-wise ;-)
Also, as for Engineers / Cruisers can't put out Damage:
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=devregenta2b_0
That one (taken from http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1164511) gets good feedback. I'm too lazy to look for more builds that utilize Cruiser DPS, just using google.com will help you quite much ^^
Not any Cmdr Eng ability is worthless. Why does everyone put DEM3 into their cookie cutter builds?
The biggest problem with cruisers? It's the totally borked "Crew" mechanic, that even Cryptic admits is borked! Yet they do nothing about it!
One of the "selling" points of cruisers is their increased crew compliment over smaller ships, supposedly to increase hull repair rate, which it does do, but unfortunately the crew "recovery" rate is the same for a BoP as it is for an Oddy.
So a BoP can lose 95% of it's crew and recover almost instantly, and therefore Hull Repair rates go back up to +100%, almost instantly ... But If an Oddy loss 95% of it's crew, it takes around three and a half DAYS for it to recover, so the repair rate stays at 1 point per hour for those 3.5 days ... (Ok, maybe I exaggerated a teeny tiny bit, just for effect)
Yes, you can slot DoFF's to increase crew recovery, and yes, you can slot consoles to improve crew recovery, but then cruisers would be doing less damage once again, and not be able to tank as well, so we'd be right back at the start again!
IF Cryptic actually fixed the Crew/Hull mechanic so that Cruisers recovered hull WAY more quickly than escorts, due to there larger crew and NOT based on crew% as it is now, then "tanking" would take on a whole new meaning.
Not to mention that skills like boarding party rely on crew. I like that skill, but finally gave up on it. My Oddy may take a barrage of torps and only lose 10% hull, but my crew will be wasted and boarding party no longer works.
That's another thing that's terribly wrong with the crew mechanics. How did 3/4 of the crew taken out when my hull got less than 10% damage. If my cruiser has about 7% hull then I get why my crew's dead but if an enemy barely scratches the paint of my ship 75% of my crew will become redshirts as in "just dying for the sake of showig potential danger".
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=264508&page=4
He necroed a years old thread.
So you want to give every ship and every captain in the game super resists then? because those numbers of yours are done easily on any char, on any ship.
Nadion Inversion? You should never, ever need this ability as an engineer. If you stack a lot of beams, 6 or more, just add Cutting Beam and Assimilated Console.
EPS? +35 power to all subsystems and a huge chunk of power transfer sounds great on paper, but again power isn't something engineers are hurting for. Add in the risk Tykens rift and all that power transfer equals one dead ship!
Rotate Shield Frequency dose not hold a candle to snb/alpha. It's underpowered because a good engineer is already running near shield resist cap and the regen element on its own is a drop in the must have resilient shield bucket.
Miracle Worker. A Yo yo mechanic that, again, seems good on paper but it dose not feel like something Scotty, it's namesake, would rescue the enterprise with! A miracle for me in pvp/pve is immunity to all debuffs, holds, disables, and buff stripping for me and my teammates. 30 seconds of being unstoppable means you have to kill the engineer to get rid of that damn miracle worker and that means engineers become a threat again instead of the ignored until last kill.
as it stands we engineers are spam healers and not anything else in pvp and aggromagnets in pve.
Brody ToS veterans
Finn, Entrax, Edna, Tobias to name just the ones that come quicker to mind If you look at hilberts you can see all of them.
Are some ships too tanky, very likely, but the problem is NOT that engineers are not survivable enough. No single person should be able to stalemate a match
You die, get over it.
I myself run a sci in a sci ship as a healer and am engineer in a cruiser as a healer and in both I heal well (very specialized builds on both) but I also die under concentrated fire on both.
As Brody said if there is a problem with engineers on STO is that their powers are worthless outside of healing/tanking.
Nothing is impossible to him who would try.... except getting cryptic to care about pvp.
I think the majority of your complaints come from either a bad build or misunderstandings of the mechanics.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Cruiser
Cruisers come in a huge variety of configurations. You are not lacking for boff seating. The Odyssey (any of the 3-pack) is an excellent ship. If you want to go more tactical, the Assault Cruiser Refit or Avenger are excellent ships. If you want to go more science, the Support Cruiser, Star Cruiser or Tal Shiar Adapted Battle Cruiser are also excellent. As a healer in PvP, I fly the Tal Shiar Adapted Battle Cruiser. When in PvE, I fly the Fleet Avenger.
In terms of Engineer Player ability, your complaints are a little more valid. Tactical captains have some excellent offensive abilities, specifically two buffs (Attack Pattern Alpha and Go Down Fighting) along with a debuff (Fire on my Mark). Science captains also have some excellent offensive abilities, specifically two debuffs (Sensor Scan and Subnucleonic Beam).
Engineers on the other hand do not technically have any offensive abilities. Of the space abilities (5 in total), two are personal heals (Rotate Shield Frequency and Miracle Worker), one is a personal buff (Nadion Inversion), one is a targeted buff (EPS Power Transfer) and then, of course, the team buff (Engineering Fleet).
The thing to remember here is that Engineers and Cruisers are really good for boosting and maintaining power levels. Both the EPS Power Transfer and Nadion Inversion abilities, along with the EPS Manifold Efficiency trait, reflect this. If you want to do damage with a Cruiser and you are playing an Engineer, then you have to take advantage of that. Use those boosted power levels along with Directed Energy Modulation and Fire at Will. It's what they were built for. Add some Elachi Disruptors and you'll see some huge damage numbers.
Now, let me be clear, DEM+FAW is not always a good thing. I'm just saying that it can be an effective build, especially for an Engineer.
On this, I highly disagree. In PvP, damage resistance is very fluid. Just because you have a high damage resistance out of combat or when you pop all your abilities, doesn't mean that your damage resistance is going to stay high throughout a fight, especially in PvP. Once you throw in Fire on my Mark, Sensor Scan, Disruptor procs, etc, into the mix your damage resistance can drop dramatically. Having some purple Neutronium consoles doesn't mean you are actually tanky.
Damage resistance mechanics work very well in the game. In fact, I would argue that in PvP damage resistance is king. You just have to understand the mechanics of it. You need to know what buffs it, what debuffs it and _especially_ when to use it.
I know a few people on the the Hilbert PvP leaderboard with FAW+DEM cruiser builds which consistently rank very high in both damage and kills. On the other end of the spectrum I, myself, rank very high on the healing side.
Publish your build! Let other people take a look. Ask for advice from the OrganizedPVP channel. Maybe it not your build. Maybe it's just your playstyle or a misunderstanding of how something works.
Cruisers are not invicible. If you have two or three very good tactical players in escorts on you, you're very likely going to die. Doesn't really matter who you are. That's what they do. They blow stuff up quickly.
The reverse is also true. If you have two or three very good engineering players in offensively built cruisers on you (using FAW+DEM), you're very likely going to die.
You are not going to solo kill every escort you see just because your ship is bigger.
Please don't use RSP3. It's silly and usually ineffective. For most builds, I would not recommend anything more than RSP1. For newer players just getting started in a cruiser, I'd even recommend running two RSP1 abilities. That's what I did when I got started.
If you are playing an offensive build, your high level powers should not be defensive.
If you are playing a simple tank build, without at least being an off-healer, please don't PvP. Zombie cruisers just take up space and don't contribute. This is coming from someone who plays a tank+full healer.
If you are an off-healer, you should balance your high level powers between offensive and cross-healing. Use something like Auxiliary to Structural, which can be cast on yourself or a teammate.
If you are a full healer, your high level powers should never be self-only.
No. It's called game balancing.
even the ships that should be more tactical like the chimera, avenger, and galaxy x.
I would support retooling things a bit. maybe expand on the level up effect they have detailed for teir6 ships or have teir 6 versions.
Ship build coordinator for The Breakfast Club http://WWW.TBCSTO.COM
Doesn't Owe Anyone EC
Kirks Prot
and the engineering focused ships have virtually no tactical slots most of the time.
its about as bad for sci ships as well.
I understand it of course, fed is a lot of engineers and scientists, but it still grates on me with classes like the avenger being such a pain to outfit for tactical abilities.
I amd hopeful that t5-u will address that a bit.
...warship? Heavily skewed towards engineering?
You *do* realize that Escorts are the warships of the Federation fleet, right? Not cruisers?
I have a Trill engineer in an assault cruiser and her ship is impressively resilient, having tanked the CC's pulse a few times, but it's not all that deeps-y, which doesn't bother me much.
Mostly, I think the issue is twofold - A, STO (like most MMOs) is heavily skewed towards murderizing things - the "good" cruisers, Avenger, Excelsior, Regent, all have a LtC Tactical station. The Gal-X, being a dreadnought cruiser, should have a LtC Tac, but does not, because.. reasons. The other cruisers, with either a Lt or a Lt and an Ens station, are not considered as "good".
B, the cmdr engineering abilities are pretty underwhelming. Aceton beam, boarding party, extend shields? Who uses these things? (I use extend shields on my escort, but that's an discussion for another place.) Eject warp plasma is good in specific builds, but not very frequently used.
The only "good" cmdr eng ability is DEM III, and that's offensive. Maybe if they added/buffed some of the Cmdr eng abilities, people might be less annoyed with the Galaxy's "ALL of the engineering!" layout.