Here's another idea, I don't know if this would be possible but to mix and match bridges and interiors. Like let's supposed you bought the Defiant pack and now this new Intrepid pack (if it's a C-Store item), would it be possible to select the Defient bridge and then have a different tab to select the Intrepid interiors?
This might be crazy and not possible at all but I was hoping to keep my Odyssey bridge but be able to put in the Intrepid interiors. Those of you who know me know I'm in love with my Oddy and it's bridge; it just looks super modern 25th century while still looking Federation.
Just an idea don't burn me at the stake everyone...
Fleet Admiral Thomas Winston James a.k.a. The Grayfox Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
The devs say they want to prioritize new mission/story content ... so why not focus on story/missions that take place INSIDE our ships? It sounds like you're doing some of that now with DR and the Intrepid interior ...
No - there will likely be story content set on Voyager - not "our" ship.
- We really cannot make "content" on YOUR ship, because there are 50 different interiors that would all have to be set up one by one, by hand for each mission.
Setting a mission on a different ship is possible, because they only need to make one map.
Having said that, they're still in the game, even if they serve no real purpose, much like accolade points.
Except no new trophies have been developed in well over a year, and trophies have not been included in any ship interiors or bridges since the Deep Space Nine bundle came out.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
So, this is like exploration. Since ship interiors are not "worthy", why not to let the players to do all the work? we talked about using the foundry to attach player created exploration missions to an exploration system. With a little bunch of more tools in the foundry players will be even able to do the major work on the interiors of EVERY ship. And i dont think not for a long shot that it will take months (in plural) to make a single interior. Of course, if there is only 1 person doing it.. (same story as always). We all players want real interiors for our ships, but interiors were always abandoned since almost the day 1, so nothing was done ever to improve the experience in em. Another reason is, as i said, that the shape and design of the interiors is ridiculous and it will never make you feel that you are in the interior or your ship. But if things are done badly since the day 1.. of course, its too late now to do something about it. We should just remove em, like the exploration clusters. Since everything that implies a little work is a no no, lets start eliminating everything that players dont use and it will be a waste of time to improve...
Many of use complain that this game doesn't feel enough like "Star Trek" and want more ship interiors ... because, after all, most of Star Trek happens inside the ships.
The devs say they want to prioritize new mission/story content ... so why not focus on story/missions that take place INSIDE our ships? It sounds like you're doing some of that now with DR and the Intrepid interior ... I'm just hoping this continues and we see more mission/story content incorporate the interiors of our ships and the devs have a reason to apply time/resources toward improving the interiors.
Your best bet is to hope that the ongoing overall plot of STO after Delta Rising will have to take place on your ship. Perhaps, just like Voyager, you wandered into that "pitcher plant" zone of space. Or that region of space where there are no stars and aliens have been dumping toxic waste there.
So, yeah, hope for a season that continues the Iconian plot on our ships. That's supportable by C-Store items and Lockboxes.
Member since November 2009... I think. (UFP) Ragnar
With all respect to tacofangs ... I understand and appreciate the complexities of creating or implementing ship interiors ... However ...
What about ship interiors that are already in game?
A perfect example of this is the Tal Shiar Adapted Battlecruiser. It has a unique, and IMHO, wonderfully realized Bridge (my compliments on that one) However, you didn't add the rest of the ship interior? Even though we actually play missions in that interior?
Both in the Romulan story ark (Hakeev's ship, which the Playable ship is based on) And also the Tal Shiar Warbird we "rescue" in the Borg mission at endgame ... So why weren't they added to the TSABC and the TSAD? The maps already exist in game, with only a small amount of effort they could be converted into a Ship interior.
Same goes for certain other ships ... The Scimitar for instance, you could easily use the assets from Drozana Station (the dilapidated version) as the "industrial" feel matches very well with the Scimitar Bridge. change the color palette from Brown/Red to Grey/Green ...
With the amount of various "interiors" already in game, creating a "Ship Interior" map wouldn't actually be that hard ...
Time consuming? Yes.
Instantly profitable? No
So how about a Compromise? I've seen, and played quite a few Foundry Maps, that are layed out as 'Ship Interiors" and some of them are quite stunning!
So, Add a second option to the 'Visit Ship Interior". Allow players to create their own 'Custom Ship Interior" that's selectable, instead of the Standard version.
So how about a Compromise? I've seen, and played quite a few Foundry Maps, that are layed out as 'Ship Interiors" and some of them are quite stunning!
So, Add a second option to the 'Visit Ship Interior". Allow players to create their own 'Custom Ship Interior" that's selectable, instead of the Standard version.
It would be pretty neat if custom housing could find a way onto the exchange as well. I'd like to sell a set to players who have no patience for trying to build a custom set.
so, This Is Like Exploration. Since Ship Interiors Are Not "worthy", Why Not To Let The Players To Do All The Work? We Talked About Using The Foundry To Attach Player Created Exploration Missions To An Exploration System. With A Little Bunch Of More Tools In The Foundry Players Will Be Even Able To Do The Major Work On The Interiors Of Every Ship. And I Dont Think Not For A Long Shot That It Will Take Months (in Plural) To Make A Single Interior. Of Course, If There Is Only 1 Person Doing It.. (same Story As Always). We All Players Want Real Interiors For Our Ships, But Interiors Were Always Abandoned Since Almost The Day 1, So Nothing Was Done Ever To Improve The Experience In Em. Another Reason Is, As I Said, That The Shape And Design Of The Interiors Is Ridiculous And It Will Never Make You Feel That You Are In The Interior Or Your Ship. But If Things Are Done Badly Since The Day 1.. Of Course, Its Too Late Now To Do Something About It. We Should Just Remove Em, Like The Exploration Clusters. Since Everything That Implies A Little Work Is A No No, Lets Start Eliminating Everything That Players Dont Use And It Will Be A Waste Of Time To Improve...
This This This This This!!! ^^^^^^
The individual's rights will be protected only so long as they don't conflict with the state.... nothing is so dangerous to a society.
- They aren't used much, because there's nothing to do there. (That is a statement, not an excuse. It just is.)
- They take forever to make (properly).
- The existing method has all of the interiors on the same map. There is no good reason for this, it's just how it was set up. This makes adding more interiors even more problematic.
- I know people like Trophies, but trophies are huge mess of poor implementation.
- We really cannot make "content" on YOUR ship, because there are 50 different interiors that would all have to be set up one by one, by hand for each mission.
I don't want to piecemeal more TRIBBLE ontop of the already barely functional system. And I don't want to add a lot more interiors to that system.
IMO, we need to spend a full season on completely rebuilding the way interiors are set up, and how they work. We really couldn't to full customization, but we could add more minor interaction points throughout.
However, spending a whole season updating interiors would mean that we would obviously need to come up with something much more important/interesting to DO there.
At the moment, that isn't a priority. So . . . we will add interiors as we need them for content and they make sense to add for players.
I love it when y'all are up front with us. All of that makes sense.
It does sound like a mess, and to me, a season of revamped interiors would be awesome, but there's no doubt it'd be hard to sell to some.
The reason I wouldn't be included in that some: I'd much rather see dev time spent re-invested into parts of the game needing polishing. Old, outdated things like interiors, social zones, and exploration shouldn't be swept under the rug and abandoned for redresses of the latest and greatest and most successful. You guys have been doing the former recently, the new klingon war missions are great, undine infilitration on bajor was an awesome idea, and now you're hitting a single bridge/interior but doing it right.
This is the development I would want the money I put into this game to support. Please continue this pattern.
But it would be pretty cool if we could get that tutorial interior with amenities like the shuttlebay and armory to replace the current default fed interior. You guys couldn't just port it over to the interior map or whatever? It'd be a great way to meet the people demanding better interiors for everything halfway. The current interior is just so out of date compared to the rest of the game...
So, this is like exploration. Since ship interiors are not "worthy", why not to let the players to do all the work? we talked about using the foundry to attach player created exploration missions to an exploration system. With a little bunch of more tools in the foundry players will be even able to do the major work on the interiors of EVERY ship.
The problem is that these "more tools" also take time, money and resources to make.
Furthermore, Cryptic devs have to answer to their bosses and stakeholders when it comes to developing content for the game - "Players feel good about the game" isn't quantifiable from a monetary sense, while "Players are spending more money on XYZ" is.
And i dont think not for a long shot that it will take months (in plural) to make a single interior. Of course, if there is only 1 person doing it.. (same story as always).
How much game design experience do you have? On what basis do you believe quality ship interiors with all the bells and whistles every player wants can be fully implemented and bug free in less than one month?
I myself make mods for Kerbal Space Program, and it takes months for me to release new updates (due to IRL commitments, game-breaking changes in updates to the core game), yet each with of my updates, I can only squeeze out a couple of new parts or maybe tidy up the interior of existing ones. And users still complain about bugs caused by incompatibilities from other mods.
Overall, as much I've always wanted to have personalized ship interiors be a core part of gameplay in STO, until the powers-that-be are convinced they can get a steady-stream of revenue from better ship interiors*, the existing system is what we're gonna have to live with. Blame the dev's bosses, not the devs themselves.
*Not empty, generic promises from players like "I'll spend more on this game if they make more ship interiors", but quantifiable things like "Players would be willing to buy extra internal deck space to get more crew and boost their hull healing". P2W I know, but that's the only way you'll convince the stakeholders.
Laws of thermodynamics as applied to life: 0 - You must play the game. 1 - You can't win. 2 - You can't break even. 3 - You can't quit.
I should also add that I'm extremely grateful that taco and the devs still take the time to talk to us about development decisions and such like - quite frankly, it's a thankless task at times and I'm sure many of you fellas may have been burned by rude and entitled players, but I personally appreciate the dev team's work and results nonetheless.
Laws of thermodynamics as applied to life: 0 - You must play the game. 1 - You can't win. 2 - You can't break even. 3 - You can't quit.
Have you seen Champions' Penthouses/Bases? Four or so "interiors" that can be customized with colors, wallpapers, different furniture, that sort of thing. And they're purchasable from their store. I think it could apply well to ship interiors. I am aware this is low priority, but I'm just throwing this here. Perhaps the tech can be shared.
Tacofangs came here from Champions, He's the one who designed the Penthouses/Bases.
"Let me guess, my theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie" - The Doctor
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" -Agatha Heterodyne
Have you seen Champions' Penthouses/Bases? Four or so "interiors" that can be customized with colors, wallpapers, different furniture, that sort of thing. And they're purchasable from their store. I think it could apply well to ship interiors. I am aware this is low priority, but I'm just throwing this here. Perhaps the tech can be shared.
Now I feel jealous of Champions Online. Wish Taco could do the same for us (Captain's Starbase Quarters, anyone?).
The problem is that these "more tools" also take time, money and resources to make.
Of course, like EVERYTHING. But do you really thing that is a valid "excuse" to say that it is not worthy the money and efforts everytime players want something??? Obviously cryptic is not worried about the health and the future of the game, but we as customers deserve a little point of attention. If they NEED to waste some money on making some things that probably will take em more time than they expect, so what????? they have more than enough money to make a thousand of interiors. Whats the problem, time?? staff?? seriously?? cant they design the interiors slowly, lets say one of em every month or so?? or, cant they hire more workers, something that any reasonable company will do??? or the real reason is just, they are too lazy now to make just ANYTHING that is not focused to profit? everybody just finally forgot about all the bugs this game carries along, now cryptic wants us to forget about every piece of content that will be great to have in the game, but we wont because it is not profit.. so, and i wonder, for example, why cryptic invested so much time and efforts in the new ESD????? players never asked for that. And there you go. Then, now, players wants REAL interiors for their ships, but they will not get em because it is "too much work". Seriously, i wonder if people who actually pays real money to play this game sometimes stop to think what are they doing...
How much game design experience do you have? On what basis do you believe quality ship interiors with all the bells and whistles every player wants can be fully implemented and bug free in less than one month?
I dont need it. I know exactly how much time a team of designers will take to make just a single interior. Ive been working with computers since 25 years ago, and i know a few things about this world.
Oh yes, i modded for dozens of games, that means nothing. Because every game is different.
If you telling me the problem is, they only have 1 guy doing the interiors, of course, it will take more than a month to do it. But of course, having only 1 guy in every department of a videogame company it is not normal. And this is the problem of cryptic. Instead of hiring more people they will always say that it is too much work and it is not worthy the efforts. Because they only have a couple of guys in every department. And since they are not willing to hire more, because it is not "profit" :P, we will never see great things implemented in this game.
Of course, i "blame" the bosses, not the devs. The bosses are the ones who need to hire more people. And i tell you, more people = more things possible. Its a basic rule. But when you dont want to waste not even an extra cent on anything.... well.... :mad:
Today is August 14th, I am still doing some touch ups/polish tasks for the Voyager Interior. I started working on Astrometrics for Voyager (the first room we built) on May 5th. I have been pulled off to help with two other things in that time, but by and large, most of the past three months has been Voyager. There are three other artists who built some of the other rooms (Mess Hall, Engineering, Quarters), during that time as well.
So yes. It literally takes months to create a proper interior.
And yes, it's mostly been me (but not entirely me). But, we have a team of environment artists, and many other things to work on for the expansion. So, if we wanted a bunch of people to work on the Voyager Interior simultaneously, all of those other things would have to cease for a time. It would still be a solid month of work, and it would be harder to ensure that it all looked the same, since different artists would each be making different areas.
Other than special bridges for special ships and the very rare bridge which is in a expensive pack we wont see any.
Bridges just don't make them money and I know for sure I wont be holding my breath that we ever see more than the one Romulan bridge.
Heh. . . Yes, I've seen them.
I built them.
And it was a metric buttload of work. The results were good, but building a full ship interior alone is a couple of months of work. Building 4 or 5 versions of that ONE interior, takes much more time. Hideouts also suffered from lack of tech support. So they were a pain to set up and maintain (notice there haven't been any more added since the Penthouse). I would love to have something like that for ships, but I just don't think it's feasible for us.
If it gave us a chance to use interiors for missions, I'd gladly give up any customization, I think.
As a compromise, maybe one could designate certain "individualized" areas - stuff like the trophies and maybe the ready room and captain's room with some personalized stuff.
Even more so if this comes with a new exploration system that also includes interior missions.
"Bottle" shows in Star Trek where of course a way to minimize cost, but they were part of the shows, and sometimes told quite interesting stories, and STO cannot bring them to us because the interior system stands in the way.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Comments
This might be crazy and not possible at all but I was hoping to keep my Odyssey bridge but be able to put in the Intrepid interiors. Those of you who know me know I'm in love with my Oddy and it's bridge; it just looks super modern 25th century while still looking Federation.
Just an idea don't burn me at the stake everyone...
Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians
U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
Game Handle: Grayfox@GrayfoxJames
Website: https://www.libertytaskforce.com
Armada (STOFA Member Fleet): https://www.libertytaskforce.com/stofa
Discord: https://discord.gg/bGp9N7z
Twitter: STOFA@LTFGrayfox
Email: CSDynamix@Hotmail.com
Having said that, they're still in the game, even if they serve no real purpose, much like accolade points.
*This is a joke. You may laugh now. The minister of information* commands you!
No - there will likely be story content set on Voyager - not "our" ship.
Setting a mission on a different ship is possible, because they only need to make one map.
Except no new trophies have been developed in well over a year, and trophies have not been included in any ship interiors or bridges since the Deep Space Nine bundle came out.
Your best bet is to hope that the ongoing overall plot of STO after Delta Rising will have to take place on your ship. Perhaps, just like Voyager, you wandered into that "pitcher plant" zone of space. Or that region of space where there are no stars and aliens have been dumping toxic waste there.
So, yeah, hope for a season that continues the Iconian plot on our ships. That's supportable by C-Store items and Lockboxes.
(UFP) Ragnar
What about ship interiors that are already in game?
A perfect example of this is the Tal Shiar Adapted Battlecruiser. It has a unique, and IMHO, wonderfully realized Bridge (my compliments on that one) However, you didn't add the rest of the ship interior? Even though we actually play missions in that interior?
Both in the Romulan story ark (Hakeev's ship, which the Playable ship is based on) And also the Tal Shiar Warbird we "rescue" in the Borg mission at endgame ... So why weren't they added to the TSABC and the TSAD? The maps already exist in game, with only a small amount of effort they could be converted into a Ship interior.
Same goes for certain other ships ... The Scimitar for instance, you could easily use the assets from Drozana Station (the dilapidated version) as the "industrial" feel matches very well with the Scimitar Bridge. change the color palette from Brown/Red to Grey/Green ...
With the amount of various "interiors" already in game, creating a "Ship Interior" map wouldn't actually be that hard ...
Time consuming? Yes.
Instantly profitable? No
So how about a Compromise? I've seen, and played quite a few Foundry Maps, that are layed out as 'Ship Interiors" and some of them are quite stunning!
So, Add a second option to the 'Visit Ship Interior". Allow players to create their own 'Custom Ship Interior" that's selectable, instead of the Standard version.
Yup, forgot that one.
It would be pretty neat if custom housing could find a way onto the exchange as well. I'd like to sell a set to players who have no patience for trying to build a custom set.
This This This This This!!! ^^^^^^
I love it when y'all are up front with us. All of that makes sense.
It does sound like a mess, and to me, a season of revamped interiors would be awesome, but there's no doubt it'd be hard to sell to some.
The reason I wouldn't be included in that some: I'd much rather see dev time spent re-invested into parts of the game needing polishing. Old, outdated things like interiors, social zones, and exploration shouldn't be swept under the rug and abandoned for redresses of the latest and greatest and most successful. You guys have been doing the former recently, the new klingon war missions are great, undine infilitration on bajor was an awesome idea, and now you're hitting a single bridge/interior but doing it right.
This is the development I would want the money I put into this game to support. Please continue this pattern.
But it would be pretty cool if we could get that tutorial interior with amenities like the shuttlebay and armory to replace the current default fed interior. You guys couldn't just port it over to the interior map or whatever? It'd be a great way to meet the people demanding better interiors for everything halfway. The current interior is just so out of date compared to the rest of the game...
The problem is that these "more tools" also take time, money and resources to make.
Furthermore, Cryptic devs have to answer to their bosses and stakeholders when it comes to developing content for the game - "Players feel good about the game" isn't quantifiable from a monetary sense, while "Players are spending more money on XYZ" is.
How much game design experience do you have? On what basis do you believe quality ship interiors with all the bells and whistles every player wants can be fully implemented and bug free in less than one month?
I myself make mods for Kerbal Space Program, and it takes months for me to release new updates (due to IRL commitments, game-breaking changes in updates to the core game), yet each with of my updates, I can only squeeze out a couple of new parts or maybe tidy up the interior of existing ones. And users still complain about bugs caused by incompatibilities from other mods.
Overall, as much I've always wanted to have personalized ship interiors be a core part of gameplay in STO, until the powers-that-be are convinced they can get a steady-stream of revenue from better ship interiors*, the existing system is what we're gonna have to live with. Blame the dev's bosses, not the devs themselves.
*Not empty, generic promises from players like "I'll spend more on this game if they make more ship interiors", but quantifiable things like "Players would be willing to buy extra internal deck space to get more crew and boost their hull healing". P2W I know, but that's the only way you'll convince the stakeholders.
Tacofangs came here from Champions, He's the one who designed the Penthouses/Bases.
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" - Agatha Heterodyne
There is a difference between using an interior for a mission, and putting a mission into an interior.
Now I feel jealous of Champions Online.
Of course, like EVERYTHING. But do you really thing that is a valid "excuse" to say that it is not worthy the money and efforts everytime players want something??? Obviously cryptic is not worried about the health and the future of the game, but we as customers deserve a little point of attention. If they NEED to waste some money on making some things that probably will take em more time than they expect, so what????? they have more than enough money to make a thousand of interiors. Whats the problem, time?? staff?? seriously?? cant they design the interiors slowly, lets say one of em every month or so?? or, cant they hire more workers, something that any reasonable company will do??? or the real reason is just, they are too lazy now to make just ANYTHING that is not focused to profit? everybody just finally forgot about all the bugs this game carries along, now cryptic wants us to forget about every piece of content that will be great to have in the game, but we wont because it is not profit.. so, and i wonder, for example, why cryptic invested so much time and efforts in the new ESD????? players never asked for that. And there you go. Then, now, players wants REAL interiors for their ships, but they will not get em because it is "too much work". Seriously, i wonder if people who actually pays real money to play this game sometimes stop to think what are they doing...
I dont need it. I know exactly how much time a team of designers will take to make just a single interior. Ive been working with computers since 25 years ago, and i know a few things about this world.
Oh yes, i modded for dozens of games, that means nothing. Because every game is different.
If you telling me the problem is, they only have 1 guy doing the interiors, of course, it will take more than a month to do it. But of course, having only 1 guy in every department of a videogame company it is not normal. And this is the problem of cryptic. Instead of hiring more people they will always say that it is too much work and it is not worthy the efforts. Because they only have a couple of guys in every department. And since they are not willing to hire more, because it is not "profit" :P, we will never see great things implemented in this game.
Of course, i "blame" the bosses, not the devs. The bosses are the ones who need to hire more people. And i tell you, more people = more things possible. Its a basic rule. But when you dont want to waste not even an extra cent on anything.... well.... :mad:
So yes. It literally takes months to create a proper interior.
And yes, it's mostly been me (but not entirely me). But, we have a team of environment artists, and many other things to work on for the expansion. So, if we wanted a bunch of people to work on the Voyager Interior simultaneously, all of those other things would have to cease for a time. It would still be a solid month of work, and it would be harder to ensure that it all looked the same, since different artists would each be making different areas.
Heh. . . Yes, I've seen them.
I built them.
And it was a metric buttload of work. The results were good, but building a full ship interior alone is a couple of months of work. Building 4 or 5 versions of that ONE interior, takes much more time. Hideouts also suffered from lack of tech support. So they were a pain to set up and maintain (notice there haven't been any more added since the Penthouse). I would love to have something like that for ships, but I just don't think it's feasible for us.
As a compromise, maybe one could designate certain "individualized" areas - stuff like the trophies and maybe the ready room and captain's room with some personalized stuff.
Even more so if this comes with a new exploration system that also includes interior missions.
"Bottle" shows in Star Trek where of course a way to minimize cost, but they were part of the shows, and sometimes told quite interesting stories, and STO cannot bring them to us because the interior system stands in the way.