unfortunately your overlooking facts in the process, voyager was haplessly outmatched by one of these carriers, if it wasnt for chakotay and his ship the val jean and its kamikaze attempt, voyager would of been destroyed no doubt about it. and that other incident was with decoys, sensors and holographic alike to pull the kazon out of position. chakotay said it best "Besides, out here in the Delta Quadrant every old trick is new again.". voyager got lucky on a few occasions, being a plot device of course :P.
the opinion still stands unless you got something better.
Voyager was still attacked by four of the carriers, originally before the holographic trick there were eight in total. They also managed to kill one with a couple of photon torpedos. This was while Voyager was damaged thanks to the suicide bomber Kazon that blew himself up on board and damaged several systems. The Kazon wouldn't of bought so many ships if they were not outmatched.
In the case of caretaker they didn't see too concerned with the ships, they rammed it with Chakotays ship because basically plot reasons. Plus again Voyager was damaged thanks to the caretaker pulling them across the galaxy. They were also missing a lot of personnel.
The point is the Kazon struggled quite a lot against a lone vessel, that won't be the case now as we have ability to bring fleets into the Delta quadrant. If the Kazon start annoying the KDF or the RR too much I can see them blowing them back to where they came from with not much effort. After all it only took a third of the KDF fleet to break the Cardassian military who were a much bigger threat and more advanced than the Kazon.(until they ran to the Dominion anyway)
more of a simple explanation of tech levels... The intrepid class is considered a light cruiser and as been shown to handle multiple kazon carriers and their support fleet...
Also take into account, the class was built for exploration, not for war. Now consider how that fight would have ended if they were facing a Sovy or Defiant class...
They may survive a fight with Fed's, due to their nature, however, if they attack either the klingons or romulans, they would be decimated.
And you got me thinking on the Kazon again. The battle that took Voyager. Seska convinced a large portion of the competing kazon to unify to capture the ship. All targeting the same area of the ship as it entered their space so crucial systems would be down. Then you have a fanatic suicide bomber cripple more systems from inside. The Voyager was not breezing through this fight prior to this. They might have gotten away they might not have. But the kazon gambled on taking the ship as intact as they could so they had to fight with an arm tied back. And from there use tricks to increase the odds of success.
Now we look at the kazon as a group. They are not one. They are a collection of gangs just as likely to fight each other as an outside force. But they all have a unifying issue. They hate uniforms and a unified fleet. Because it reminds them of being slaves. So Star fleet, and the Klingon Empire sho up. This might force them to turn to one leader of a strong tribe that has the tactics and some alpha quadrant blood in it as leaders to unite against this threat.
Now look at our reactions to the thought of the kazon. Imagine you are a Starfleet officer that read the voyager reports on them. You see some kazon ahead you will think. 'Eh, if Janeway with her ship shot up and running a skeleton crew can handle them then my ship can handle all of them. Well that kind of hubris loses battles and wars. So how many Starfleet or kdf ships might they capture and use? How much cross tribe tech becomes standard? The idea of them becoming a threat is not ludicrous. Merely unlikely.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
And you got me thinking on the Kazon again. The battle that took Voyager. Seska convinced a large portion of the competing kazon to unify to capture the ship. All targeting the same area of the ship as it entered their space so crucial systems would be down. Then you have a fanatic suicide bomber cripple more systems from inside. The Voyager was not breezing through this fight prior to this. They might have gotten away they might not have. But the kazon gambled on taking the ship as intact as they could so they had to fight with an arm tied back. And from there use tricks to increase the odds of success.
Now we look at the kazon as a group. They are not one. They are a collection of gangs just as likely to fight each other as an outside force. But they all have a unifying issue. They hate uniforms and a unified fleet. Because it reminds them of being slaves. So Star fleet, and the Klingon Empire sho up. This might force them to turn to one leader of a strong tribe that has the tactics and some alpha quadrant blood in it as leaders to unite against this threat.
Now look at our reactions to the thought of the kazon. Imagine you are a Starfleet officer that read the voyager reports on them. You see some kazon ahead you will think. 'Eh, if Janeway with her ship shot up and running a skeleton crew can handle them then my ship can handle all of them. Well that kind of hubris loses battles and wars. So how many Starfleet or kdf ships might they capture and use? How much cross tribe tech becomes standard? The idea of them becoming a threat is not ludicrous. Merely unlikely.
Nope. Kazon are simply too tribal to be a coherent force for any extended period of time. Look at current-day Afghanistan, or Iraq. Sure, they will somewhat unity against America, if need be; but overall, they're just too busy killing each other. The primitive tribal mindset does that to you.
The Kazon, for millenia to come, will simply remain a pathetic bunch of overall disorganized scavengers.
Nope. Kazon are simply too tribal to be a coherent force for any extended period of time. Look at current-day Afghanistan, or Iraq. Sure, they will somewhat unity against America, if need be; but overall, they're just too busy killing each other. The primitive tribal mindset does that to you.
The Kazon, for millenia to come, will simply remain a pathetic bunch of overall disorganized scavengers.
Their technology or lack of will also make sure they are never a threat. There is no way they have kept pace with the technological prowess of the various species of the Alpha quadrant who are not split into small tribes.
Voyager was still attacked by four of the carriers, originally before the holographic trick there were eight in total. They also managed to kill one with a couple of photon torpedos. This was while Voyager was damaged thanks to the suicide bomber Kazon that blew himself up on board and damaged several systems. The Kazon wouldn't of bought so many ships if they were not outmatched.
In the case of caretaker they didn't see too concerned with the ships, they rammed it with Chakotays ship because basically plot reasons. Plus again Voyager was damaged thanks to the caretaker pulling them across the galaxy. They were also missing a lot of personnel.
The point is the Kazon struggled quite a lot against a lone vessel, that won't be the case now as we have ability to bring fleets into the Delta quadrant. If the Kazon start annoying the KDF or the RR too much I can see them blowing them back to where they came from with not much effort. After all it only took a third of the KDF fleet to break the Cardassian military who were a much bigger threat and more advanced than the Kazon.(until they ran to the Dominion anyway)
again that was with holographic tricks for survival mode. and voyager only got into the fight then engaged the carriers coming across the first one then putting up the holographic ships to pull em out of position believing they are real. that wasnt 4v1, that was voyager and her crew getting cute and pulling it off but that still left one of the carriers that needed to be dealt with by voyager itself as it was shown that 3 holographic talaxian ships were there and then they were not and voyager almost got destroyed with all 3 firing after the suicide bombing of that kazon.
again that was with holographic tricks for survival mode. and voyager only got into the fight then engaged the carriers coming across the first one then putting up the holographic ships to pull em out of position believing they are real. that wasnt 4v1, that was voyager and her crew getting cute and pulling it off but that still left one of the carriers that needed to be dealt with by voyager itself as it was shown that 3 holographic talaxian ships were there and then they were not and voyager almost got destroyed with all 3 firing after the suicide bombing of that kazon.
Im not saying that the Kazon were not a threat to Voyager, clearly they were and they could take a single ship but it took quite large effort on their part. Now in 2410 they will have a lot more difficulty surviving, any of the three alpha quadrant empires are going to come in force and they will be powerful enough and numerous enough that the Kazon would just get killed. The Klingons and Romulans are not likely to hold back either.
Im not saying that the Kazon were not a threat to Voyager, clearly they were and they could take a single ship but it took quite large effort on their part. Now in 2410 they will have a lot more difficulty surviving, any of the three alpha quadrant empires are going to come in force and they will be powerful enough and numerous enough that the Kazon would just get killed. The Klingons and Romulans are not likely to hold back either.
Yes. Voyager was just 1 single, solitary ship, cut off from repair stations, backup, Fleet suport, and what not. Only with the help of Seska could the Kazon mount a serious threat, but still only against 1 Alpha-Quadrant *Science* (!) vessel.
What do you think will happen when they're foolish enough to attack a Klingon Bird of Prey? The Klingons will swarm in, en masse, and the Kazon will be wiped out faster than the Tribble homeworld! And will put up less of a fight to boot.
While i agree that the Kazon arent much of a technological threat to any Faction in the alpha or beta quadrants . i feel they would fit as a Pirate threat . they would prey on ship to see what tech they could get . to be honest i really couldnt see them expanding very far outside there Territory before getting wiped out by other Delta factions .
Comments
Voyager was still attacked by four of the carriers, originally before the holographic trick there were eight in total. They also managed to kill one with a couple of photon torpedos. This was while Voyager was damaged thanks to the suicide bomber Kazon that blew himself up on board and damaged several systems. The Kazon wouldn't of bought so many ships if they were not outmatched.
In the case of caretaker they didn't see too concerned with the ships, they rammed it with Chakotays ship because basically plot reasons. Plus again Voyager was damaged thanks to the caretaker pulling them across the galaxy. They were also missing a lot of personnel.
The point is the Kazon struggled quite a lot against a lone vessel, that won't be the case now as we have ability to bring fleets into the Delta quadrant. If the Kazon start annoying the KDF or the RR too much I can see them blowing them back to where they came from with not much effort. After all it only took a third of the KDF fleet to break the Cardassian military who were a much bigger threat and more advanced than the Kazon.(until they ran to the Dominion anyway)
Also take into account, the class was built for exploration, not for war. Now consider how that fight would have ended if they were facing a Sovy or Defiant class...
They may survive a fight with Fed's, due to their nature, however, if they attack either the klingons or romulans, they would be decimated.
Now we look at the kazon as a group. They are not one. They are a collection of gangs just as likely to fight each other as an outside force. But they all have a unifying issue. They hate uniforms and a unified fleet. Because it reminds them of being slaves. So Star fleet, and the Klingon Empire sho up. This might force them to turn to one leader of a strong tribe that has the tactics and some alpha quadrant blood in it as leaders to unite against this threat.
Now look at our reactions to the thought of the kazon. Imagine you are a Starfleet officer that read the voyager reports on them. You see some kazon ahead you will think. 'Eh, if Janeway with her ship shot up and running a skeleton crew can handle them then my ship can handle all of them. Well that kind of hubris loses battles and wars. So how many Starfleet or kdf ships might they capture and use? How much cross tribe tech becomes standard? The idea of them becoming a threat is not ludicrous. Merely unlikely.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Nope. Kazon are simply too tribal to be a coherent force for any extended period of time. Look at current-day Afghanistan, or Iraq. Sure, they will somewhat unity against America, if need be; but overall, they're just too busy killing each other. The primitive tribal mindset does that to you.
The Kazon, for millenia to come, will simply remain a pathetic bunch of overall disorganized scavengers.
Their technology or lack of will also make sure they are never a threat. There is no way they have kept pace with the technological prowess of the various species of the Alpha quadrant who are not split into small tribes.
again that was with holographic tricks for survival mode. and voyager only got into the fight then engaged the carriers coming across the first one then putting up the holographic ships to pull em out of position believing they are real. that wasnt 4v1, that was voyager and her crew getting cute and pulling it off but that still left one of the carriers that needed to be dealt with by voyager itself as it was shown that 3 holographic talaxian ships were there and then they were not and voyager almost got destroyed with all 3 firing after the suicide bombing of that kazon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtW_zz6XXG4 - im getting tired of discussing it any further unless your willing to budge a bit on your own point.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Im not saying that the Kazon were not a threat to Voyager, clearly they were and they could take a single ship but it took quite large effort on their part. Now in 2410 they will have a lot more difficulty surviving, any of the three alpha quadrant empires are going to come in force and they will be powerful enough and numerous enough that the Kazon would just get killed. The Klingons and Romulans are not likely to hold back either.
Yes. Voyager was just 1 single, solitary ship, cut off from repair stations, backup, Fleet suport, and what not. Only with the help of Seska could the Kazon mount a serious threat, but still only against 1 Alpha-Quadrant *Science* (!) vessel.
What do you think will happen when they're foolish enough to attack a Klingon Bird of Prey? The Klingons will swarm in, en masse, and the Kazon will be wiped out faster than the Tribble homeworld! And will put up less of a fight to boot.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1194621.
this thread has an official link and confirmation, no further point in its existence.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.