Female Odyssey belts sit too low..

jodarkrider

I thought it'd not bug me, but.. it still does & in fact, more and more so, as the uniforms and belts are awesome, but this is hard to overlook.

Basicly, the female Odyssey belts, are sitting rather low on the uniforms, and it kinda looks... not so nice. Giving the Jupiter belt

and Odyssey belt

for comparison... Think something can be done about this? Male versions look totally fine, so it's just the females again.

iconians

I had one of my friends tell me the Odyssey belt makes her butt look big, for what useful feedback that is worth.

jodarkrider

iconians wrote: »

I had one of my friends tell me the Odyssey belt makes her butt look big, for what useful feedback that is worth.

Well, I'm using the Jupiter for now, as I really can't stand how low the belt is, on the females. Who wears belt this low, seriously. <.<

adverbero

Looks to me like it was lined up closer to the Skirt Hem line than the shape of a pair of trousers

jexsamx

The problem isn't the belt.

See, the belt sits on the standard Odyssey uniform where the hem of the top meets the waist of the pants. The female version has a somewhat lower waist, so the female belt sits lower. Which is good, because all the other belts in the game look stupid with the standard Odyssey uniform.

Your issue is two-fold. Your character's proportions are kinda wonky in the abdominal area, making the belt position look odder than it really is; and you want to use the Odyssey belt at a position it just isn't designed for because, well, it would look bad.

In other words, it's not broken, nor is there an issue.

That said, I'd be totally okay with women getting a second higher-sitting belt since having one would work better with female outfits already designed for higher belts, ala WoK.

rattler2

THe Odyssey belts sit in about the same position as the Mirror Enterprise dagger belt and T'pol's belt.

jodarkrider

jexsamx wrote: »

The problem isn't the belt.

See, the belt sits on the standard Odyssey uniform where the hem of the top meets the waist of the pants. The female version has a somewhat lower waist, so the female belt sits lower. Which is good, because all the other belts in the game look stupid with the standard Odyssey uniform.

Your issue is two-fold. Your character's proportions are kinda wonky in the abdominal area ... snip

The Jupiter belt looks just fine on the long jacket, as shown on the picture in my OP. Male version of the Odyssey belt looks just fine too. And no, it has nothing to do with 'wonky' proportions, I've tried that on other female characters (Boffs) & seen it on other female characters. Still sits too low and looks very bad, compared to where the belt sits on male characters.

jodarkrider

rattler2 wrote: »

THe Odyssey belts sit in about the same position as the Mirror Enterprise dagger belt and T'pol's belt.

Yeah, well, that's part of the problem. Most other belts look just fine. These three, not really.

yreodred

jexsamx wrote: »

The problem isn't the belt.

See, the belt sits on the standard Odyssey uniform where the hem of the top meets the waist of the pants. The female version has a somewhat lower waist, so the female belt sits lower. Which is good, because all the other belts in the game look stupid with the standard Odyssey uniform.

That's what annoyed me too.
Female Belts where sitting too high, many female uniforms looked just stupid with belt.
The new odyssey belt finally gets it right IMO.

jodarkrider

yreodred wrote: »

That's what annoyed me too.
Female Belts where sitting too high, many female uniforms looked just stupid with belt.
The new odyssey belt finally gets it right IMO.

It may look good on the short jacket uniforms, but it looks hideous on long jacket uniforms... such as long jacket Odyssey or even TWoK...

dragonsbrethren

Throwing in some more support in favor of where this belt sits. It looks so much better on the standard uniform than any of the other belts.

That said I agree, it's not the best looking with the long jacket. But given one or the other, I want it left as-is.

bberge1701

jexsamx wrote: »

See, the belt sits on the standard Odyssey uniform where the hem of the top meets the waist of the pants. The female version has a somewhat lower waist, so the female belt sits lower.

The problem is the specific combination of the Odyssey belt and the Odyssey long jacket. The belt is correctly positioned for the regular jacket. Since the jacket is an upper body setting, and the belt is a lower body setting, they don't mesh.

Unless the devs come up with some way of linking the two together, or give us a position option for the belt, I don't see a way of fixing this.

At first, I was going to say that I don't have this problem, and call it a bug. Then I remembered I'm actually using the Jupiter Veteran belt, which sits fine on the Odyssey long jacket.

jodarkrider

In other words, the Oddysey belt works fine for the regular length jackets, but totally doesn't work for the long jacket/Dress jacket. I just find it really... "lame", for lack of better words, because male models don't have this problem & the belt works fine on both variants of the jackets, without it looking odd on either of them.

Call me bitter, but it's always the female models, which seem to get... a short end of stick here. You can have one variant, but not the other, without it looking ridiculous... Come on.

dragonsbrethren

That's not really fair. This is the only good looking belt for the standard uniform, the only one actually worn at the right height for the jacket. Wear any other belt with the normal jacket and those look ridiculous.

jodarkrider

dragonsbrethren wrote: »

That's not really fair. This is the only good looking belt for the standard uniform, the only one actually worn at the right height for the jacket. Wear any other belt with the normal jacket and those look ridiculous.

It's equally unfair that the new, canon belt, can't be worn with the long jacket, without it looking silly, though. Especially that male models don't have this problem. I think this should be addressed somehow, so that even female characters have it, that it looks good in both variants, and not having to pick one...

calexista

What I think they really need to do is make 2 versions of each belt for females of all factions. 1 in the standard low position for standard and cropped outfits to have them match that doesn't show skin between the top of the pants and bottom of the belt. Then do 1 higher positioned one for Long Coats Corresponding belt high unlocking to the outfit that it comes with unlike the Winter winter cropped jacket that the belt leaves the Pant to belt gap skin exposed.

jodarkrider

calexista wrote: »

What I think they really need to do is make 2 versions of each belt for females of all factions. 1 in the standard low position for standard and cropped outfits to have them match that doesn't show skin between the top of the pants and bottom of the belt. Then do 1 higher positioned one for Long Coats Corresponding belt high unlocking to the outfit that it comes with unlike the Winter winter cropped jacket that the belt leaves the Pant to belt gap skin exposed.

That would be the ideal solution - as unfortunately, the female costumes waist (where the belt sits) sits lower compared to where it sits on the male model, which is why the Odyssey belt doesn't really look well with long jackets on females.

That, or we would need to have the waist to not sit lower compared to male model, which I personally would love to see. As I said, it works fine for males, both for long jacket and the standard one, because of the fact that the male costumes, standard length, do not sit as low.

I hope to live up to the day, when the game developpers will stop having the need to make the female models look sexy or cute, at the expanse of full functionality. That's been my gripe with gaming industry in general, not just STO - as not everyone wants to turn their female character into walking barbie. Sure, these are people who do, but having an option to not having to do so, would be neat and very appreciated. /rant

iconians

jodarkrider wrote: »

I hope to live up to the day, when the game developpers will stop having the need to make the female models look sexy or cute, at the expanse of full functionality.

I have noooooo idea what you're talking about, this is a perfectly functional business casual* uniform that should have been in Thomas Marrone's .pdf file!

*If Starfleet's business is cocktail service.

peetapipmac

jodarkrider wrote: »

Yeah, well, that's part of the problem. Most other belts look just fine. These three, not really.

Those three are my favorite belts because they sit low. I actually find that the other belts sit too high.

yreodred

jodarkrider wrote: »

It may look good on the short jacket uniforms, but it looks hideous on long jacket uniforms... such as long jacket Odyssey or even TWoK...

Well there are other belts that look good on long jacket uniforms...
But all other belts besides the odyssey belt, look stupid on short jacket uniforms.

jodarkrider

iconians wrote: »

I have noooooo idea what you're talking about, this is a perfectly functional business casual* uniform that should have been in Thomas Marrone's .pdf file!

*If Starfleet's business is cocktail service.

Yet again... the need to sexualize the female versions... makes me really... ugh. It's OK to have an option like this, but please, don't force it on every female character & give us non-sexualized versions too. I don't want my character to look like this, just no.

yreodred wrote: »

Well there are other belts that look good on long jacket uniforms...
But all other belts besides the odyssey belt, look stupid on short jacket uniforms.

Well, I'd like to use the current uniform standard, without it looking silly, though. I understand the complaint of other belts looking silly with shorter uniforms, but again, pointing out the fact, that if the devs didn't have the need to make the female model cute/sexualized, by having the waist sit lower on the model itself, compared to males, we'd *not* have this problem. Look at the male model & you'll see the height works for both uniform variants.

yreodred

jodarkrider wrote: »

Yet again... the need to sexualize the female versions... makes me really... ugh. It's OK to have an option like this, but please, don't force it on every female character & give us non-sexualized versions too. I don't want my character to look like this, just no.


Well, I'd like to use the current uniform standard, without it looking silly, though. I understand the complaint of other belts looking silly with shorter uniforms, but again, pointing out the fact, that if the devs didn't have the need to make the female model cute/sexualized, by having the waist sit lower on the model itself, compared to males, we'd *not* have this problem. Look at the male model & you'll see the height works for both uniform variants.

I'm all with you about making female uniforms look less sexualized.
(there is nothing more stupid looking than a Female Starfleet officer uniform with cleavage, it's looks just totally out of order and cheap too)


On the other hand Jupiter and WoK belt are placed too high, which looks also goofy IMO.
Odyssey belt is the first starfleet belt that doesn't look goofy IMO.

Here's what i mean.

These are just some examples, "Yesterdays Enterprise" Belt looks awful (no only because it it way to thick, typical Cryptic TNG hate IMO), Bajoran and Jupiter Veteran are placed too high too.

To be honest, i have no problem with fem, trousers placed so low. Of course it would be much better if female uniforms would be the exactly the same as male uniforms, but i'm glad that there is finally a Starfleet belt that females can wear too.


You're right, body proportions should be totally reworked. Cryptics devs really seem to have problems with creating realistic body proportions (and starfleet ship proportions too). Everything looks so cartoonish IMO. (For ex. you can't make legs look Muscular/Bulky compared to upper body.)

jodarkrider

yreodred wrote: »

I'm all with you about making female uniforms look less sexualized.
(there is nothing more stupid looking than a Female Starfleet officer uniform with cleavage, it's looks just totally out of order and cheap too)


On the other hand Jupiter and WoK belt are placed too high, which looks also goofy IMO.
Odyssey belt is the first starfleet belt that doesn't look goofy IMO.

Here's what i mean.

These are just some examples, "Yesterdays Enterprise" Belt looks awful (no only because it it way to thick, typical Cryptic TNG hate IMO), Bajoran and Jupiter Veteran are placed too high too.

To be honest, i have no problem with fem, trousers placed so low. Of course it would be much better if female uniforms would be the exactly the same as male uniforms, but i'm glad that there is finally a Starfleet belt that females can wear too.


You're right, body proportions should be totally reworked. Cryptics devs really seem to have problems with creating realistic body proportions (and starfleet ship proportions too). Everything looks so cartoonish IMO. (For ex. you can't make legs look Muscular/Bulky compared to upper body.)

The thing is, the fact the female uniform is designed this way, aka, sitting lower, is why we have the issues with the belts looking silly in the first place. I really wish they'd give us a less sexualized/less curvy body-type, as an option/choice, next to what we have now, which is more like the male version... all problems would be solved, really; with most people happy, that they have a choice...

I've been getting really bitter over this issue, as it's sadly not just STO, which has tendencies to want to make female models 'cute' and blatantly curvy, to underline and scream 'female body here, look'. No female, who wears an uniform jacket ever looks as curvy as this, unless it's some tight leather/spendex outfit designed purposefully that way. And I feel the need to speak up, because if this issue doesn't get talked about, things will always stay the same in the gaming industry - with female models being catered to just one demography.

I really enjoy STO, it's a fun game to unwind to, which is why it bugs me even more so, that this... issue is present here as well. I'm not trying to bash anyone here, I'm not speaking up to spew hate, it's just I would like to see some positive change in the female model, which gives us a non-sexualized, non-curvy option; hoping that if this gets mentioned, we might actually see the change one day.

yreodred

jodarkrider wrote: »

The thing is, the fact the female uniform is designed this way, aka, sitting lower, is why we have the issues with the belts looking silly in the first place. I really wish they'd give us a less sexualized/less curvy body-type, as an option/choice, next to what we have now, which is more like the male version... all problems would be solved, really; with most people happy, that they have a choice...

I've been getting really bitter over this issue, as it's sadly not just STO, which has tendencies to want to make female models 'cute' and blatantly curvy, to underline and scream 'female body here, look'. No female, who wears an uniform jacket ever looks as curvy as this, unless it's some tight leather/spendex outfit designed purposefully that way. And I feel the need to speak up, because if this issue doesn't get talked about, things will always stay the same in the gaming industry - with female models being catered to just one demography.

I really enjoy STO, it's a fun game to unwind to, which is why it bugs me even more so, that this... issue is present here as well. I'm not trying to bash anyone here, I'm not speaking up to spew hate, it's just I would like to see some positive change in the female model, which gives us a non-sexualized, non-curvy option; hoping that if this gets mentioned, we might actually see the change one day.

I understand your feeling towards this and i share it.
Cryptics design aproach is just cartoonish. Bodies aren't the only example of that. Just look at the animations and stances, 80% look totally silly and stupid IMO.

That's how todays games seem to work, females get viewed as cute little girlies or super tough amazones, while all men are bodybuilders across the board.
Everything is totally over the top and distorted IMO.
I only hope that this is just a temporary fashion TBH.

cerritourug

dragonsbrethren wrote: »

Throwing in some more support in favor of where this belt sits. It looks so much better on the standard uniform than any of the other belts.

I agree with you.

jodarkrider

yreodred wrote: »

I understand your feeling towards this and i share it.
Cryptics design aproach is just cartoonish. Bodies aren't the only example of that. Just look at the animations and stances, 80% look totally silly and stupid IMO.

That's how todays games seem to work, females get viewed as cute little girlies or super tough amazones, while all men are bodybuilders across the board.
Everything is totally over the top and distorted IMO.
I only hope that this is just a temporary fashion TBH.

Temporary fashion? I wish. Sadly this trend is as old as the gaming or heck, even movie industry. The fact this is being talked about, however, may stir the devs in another direction. Maybe not here, on this game, maybe not now, but - across the internet, I'm not the only one who dislikes this trend.

If I didn't care or enjoy STO, I'd not even waste my time here, trying to get the devs to see, that not everyone likes their female characters screaming 'omg female body'. And while most people seem to just like this option, I'd bet, that if we had two options, be it of how high the belt sits OR different body-type, to go along with the current one, which is more in sync with the male style, they'd not complain; and some may even use it for more diverse female characters too.

Unfortunately, for people, it's preferable this way, because it's one of the belts, which meshes properly with the short female jackets... and they aren't very hopeful of us getting either a choice where the belt itself sits, or another body-type, which resembles the male mesh more.

dragonsbrethren

There's nothing wrong or sexist with where the odyssey pants sit. I wear my pants at that height, I mean... Why not make the opposite argument, the male pants are worn too high. Wearing pants that high is totally out of fashion, fashion trends in Trek were always inspired by the era the series aired.

jodarkrider

dragonsbrethren wrote: »

There's nothing wrong or sexist with where the odyssey pants sit. I wear my pants at that height, I mean... Why not make the opposite argument, the male pants are worn too high. Wearing pants that high is totally out of fashion, fashion trends in Trek were always inspired by the era the series aired.

I don't really care about 'fashion trends'. But - since you've brought it up - I wear pants quite high, because it just seems more comfy for me.

Anyways - The so-called "fashion trends" are not an issue. The issue it, female belts have issues, because the jacket/pants are lower, and therefore, the regular belts look bad on the regular jackets, and when the belt is done like the Odyssey one, to mesh with the where the waist/pant line is, it looks very silly on the long jackets.

It would be good to either allow us to set where the belt sits, give us an option with body-type or whatever, which is more in line with male version of the uniforms or, simply give us two versions of the belt. All of it is work, but honestly, I think it'd be fair, as right now, we have a choice of one variant of the uniform with belt looking stupid, whereas the males are fine.

darlexa

maybe they could put in a slider to allow the player to reposition the belt?

it would allow the player to set it wherever it is needed for whatever combination they are using, and for wether the belt is a belt, or some sort of utility belt.

futurepastnow

I like it the way it is, I don't like the high-waisted look, which is why I never bought the AGT uniform before the giveaway. The male and female uniforms should be more consistent, though.

jodarkrider

futurepastnow wrote: »

I like it the way it is, I don't like the high-waisted look, which is why I never bought the AGT uniform before the giveaway. The male and female uniforms should be more consistent, though.

Well, the fact is, the Odyssey uniform on females, on long jackets, the Odyssey belt looks silly. It looks fine on males, for both short & long variant. My issue is, that with female, you have to pick one option, because the other one looks kind of not too nice.

The slider to reposition the belt would be neat, or simply, offering a variant for females, with the Odyssey belt meant to be used for long jackets, where it sits higher... <.<