And assignments are still slow to complete after maintenance. I'm starting to think we won't see any more major changes to the doffing system until the expansion launches.
And assignments are still slow to complete after maintenance. I'm starting to think we won't see any more major changes to the doffing system until the expansion launches.
It has been said many times, the delay is intentional. As in, not a bug.
Annoying, yes. Bug, no.
"You Iconians just hung a vacancy sign on your asses and my foot's looking for a room!"
--Red Annorax
Where have they said this? Because there's no way this can be intentional. It deliberately makes the game worse for no conceivable reason.
Said by someone who obviously has never written code. Order of operations can be very important, especially when the code has been modified over and over. It might be a 'temporary fix' to make something work until they can implement a better 'fix'.
I'm not saying it is a great solution. In fact, it is relatively annoying. But it isn't worth getting that worked up over. Sign in, check your mail, look at your fleet projects. Heck, go use the head if you have to. *Then* check your doff missions.
"You Iconians just hung a vacancy sign on your asses and my foot's looking for a room!"
--Red Annorax
Throw your condescension out the airlock and try again. I asked for a quote where someone with authority within Cryptic has said that this is intended. You have thus far refused to provide any evidence of your claim.
Throw your condescension out the airlock and try again. I asked for a quote where someone with authority within Cryptic has said that this is intended. You have thus far refused to provide any evidence of your claim.
I'm not here to prove anything to anyone. If you don't care to believe me, that's your prerogative. I don't have that kind of time to waste.
"You Iconians just hung a vacancy sign on your asses and my foot's looking for a room!"
--Red Annorax
And assignments are still slow to complete after maintenance. I'm starting to think we won't see any more major changes to the doffing system until the expansion launches.
I think it is likely that Thomas the Cat and the UI programmer have been put on "more important" projects for Delta Rising. Despite the poor state of the doff UI, they haven't made any significant changes to it in two weeks.
Sorry, can you explain the issue in more detail? Is this the same as the negative completion times other people are seeing?
Talking about the 5+ second for missions to actually complete when you log in. Used to be you could log in and they'd all be in the completion tab already.
I think it is likely that Thomas the Cat and the UI programmer have been put on "more important" projects for Delta Rising. Despite the poor state of the doff UI, they haven't made any significant changes to it in two weeks.
Makes me wonder why they were in such a hurry to release it if they knew they wouldn't be able to provide much support for it before switching over to the expansion.
Talking about the 5+ second for missions to actually complete when you log in. Used to be you could log in and they'd all be in the completion tab already.
Ah, I guess I haven't noticed because I don't check doff assignments right away after logging in.
Makes me wonder why they were in such a hurry to release it if they knew they wouldn't be able to provide much support for it before switching over to the expansion.
I think they had to change the doff system because they decided to tie crafting into doffing. My guess is that crafting was the primary goal; the changes to doffing were a secondary goal needed to support crafting. You can see how this played out on Tribble. They started a feedback thread on crafting, but no feedback thread on doffing; all the feedback threads on the doffing changes were started by players.
Overall, I am unhappy with how the doffing changes were handled in Season 9.5:
1. No official feedback thread on the forums
2. Features still being worked on after release
3. Many bugs still present
4. Removal of the exploration clusters without considering the refresh time.
5. Removal of the exploration clusters without considering which assignments were lost. They seemed to be under the mistaken impression that only colonial assignments were specific to exploration clusters.
DOFFing worked. The changes were purely a GUI skin covering the older system. The older system worked and was FAR more efficient. In terms of menu options, in terms of filtering, in terms of everything. The only issue was a semi-recent glitch where the auto recommendations for doff slots were super terrible, BUT this was a recent bug since in the previous update it worked with decent suggestions.
So, short of fixing some of the logic behind what it suggests to fill in a slot, the older interface was a hundred times better. The only reason for the change was to try to update it to some kind of lame-duck "mobile phone ap" friendly visual style. Only... it's not mobile friendly AT ALL. The older interface was much more mobile friendly.
It all goes back to the STO gateway and the interface there. I presume it's an early attempt to make doffing available via web browser, but IMO that's doomed to fail as a concept.
Alright... Doffs make the game for me.. If you guys checked when I started playing, it was right about the time Doffs were introduced. Until then, no interest in it whatsoever.... Soooo.
I have stopped playing because you broke the Doffs. When they are fixed, I will play again, but until then, I simply cannot tolerate making me wait minutes after logging in for all the Doff assignments to trickle in, so... as long as you don't care that people aren't playing for it, by all means, do NOT fix it.
DOFFing worked. The changes were purely a GUI skin covering the older system. The older system worked and was FAR more efficient. In terms of menu options, in terms of filtering, in terms of everything. The only issue was a semi-recent glitch where the auto recommendations for doff slots were super terrible, BUT this was a recent bug since in the previous update it worked with decent suggestions.
So, short of fixing some of the logic behind what it suggests to fill in a slot, the older interface was a hundred times better. The only reason for the change was to try to update it to some kind of lame-duck "mobile phone ap" friendly visual style. Only... it's not mobile friendly AT ALL. The older interface was much more mobile friendly.
It all goes back to the STO gateway and the interface there. I presume it's an early attempt to make doffing available via web browser, but IMO that's doomed to fail as a concept.
The changes were not solely cosmetic, even if one disregards the removal of the exploration clusters and considers UI changes only. There were behavioral as well as cosmetic changes to the UI. Geko has stated that the doff UI was changed to make it easier to port to Gateway. But the question is "Why did they do it now instead of waiting until they had more time to devote to it?" My guess is that they had to change the doff system to meet certain requirements for crafting; for example, doffs put on crafting assignments are unavailable for doffing and vice versa. It thus seemed like an opportune time to change the doff UI, since they had to change the doff system anyway and they were already working on the crafting UI. People tend think of a UI update as a mere skin change, but it is often more involved. I think that they believed updating the doff UI would be relatively simple once the crafting stuff was done, but they sorely underestimated the amount of work needed. And now, they can't devote the resources needed to fix it, because they are working on Delta Rising.
Filters are useless now as well because say you are looking for Explosives Expert or Quartermaster when you filter it messes the window up and highlights Geologists / Technicians in green writing like the mission requires those.
Filters are useless now as well because say you are looking for Explosives Expert or Quartermaster when you filter it messes the window up and highlights Geologists / Technicians in green writing like the mission requires those.
Yeah, it seems to highlight the top doffs no matter what their specialization is, which is pretty useless.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Filters are useless now as well because say you are looking for Explosives Expert or Quartermaster when you filter it messes the window up and highlights Geologists / Technicians in green writing like the mission requires those.
Geko has stated that the doff UI was changed to make it easier to port to Gateway.
Just allow me to ask one simple question:
Let's assume actual STO game ui is written with a mixture of BigWorld, Flash c++ and perhaps pyton or what not (i simply don't want to run it under debugger). Gateway tech is pretty much some sort of home grown webservices and jQuery (curious can press F12 in chrome to see what it's all about).
So. The question:
How does minor UI facelift in unrelated area can be justification for another completely unrelated tech?
Let's assume actual STO game ui is written with a mixture of BigWorld, Flash c++ and perhaps pyton or what not (i simply don't want to run it under debugger). Gateway tech is pretty much some sort of home grown webservices and jQuery (curious can press F12 in chrome to see what it's all about).
So. The question:
How does minor UI facelift in unrelated area can be justification for another completely unrelated tech?
Just curious that's all.
Are you asking me or Geko, who may not even be reading this thread? I have no special insight into how Cryptic's code works. Your guess is as a good as mine; in fact, yours may be better, depending on your particular programming expertise. My guess is that the database is probably shared. Much of the back-end logic, such as the code that communicates with the database, is probably also shared. As you pointed out, the Gateway web server and your web browser likely run on a completely different architecture than the STO game server and game client, so most of the front-end code would be different as well. However, Cryptic may have their own UI templating language, which could be shared by the game client and Gateway web server. Previous comments by devs have indicated that they do, in fact, have a UI templating language, but I do not know whether it is used by the doff UI or not.
I agree with essentially everything the original poster said. The previous interface was easier to use and required less clicks to do the same job (less clicks means better interface).
With the old system
- I seldom wasted my Caitian flight deck officers on missions that didn't need them so I could use them for the one mission for which they are essential
- It was easier to find my doctors for doing Support, and they get the crit chance up to 33%
- I didn't have to unselect several things before assigning officers
- I would have an easier time not wasting research lab scientists since I would only use them when required so I could do more of the of science options to get R&D materials.
I believe the issue is that Cryptic, as an extension of Perfect World, views the players, their customers, only as metrics. Metric data will tell that the longer a user remains engaged with your application, the more likely they are to spend money. Largely an accurate analysis. With the decline in time that PC gamers are spending on their games lately, I believe they had to come up with a method to keep their customers engaged for longer periods of time, if nothing more than to appease the share holders.
The problem with this Zynga style approach, by making things more tedious and time consuming for the players in the hopes that they'll spend money, is that they don't offer an alternative. With Facebook or iOS games that require you to click here, click there, wait for four hours, click again is that they offer a means to bypass that by injecting currency into the game. Cryptic redesigned the DOFF system to be more time consuming, but neglected to take advantage of the monetization opportunity. The likely result that they'll see is that people may spend LESS money, as they'll spend too much of their gaming time doffing and opt to bypass other areas where money may be involved.
It's a gamble, and I'm not so sure it'll pay off, in THIS metric's opinion.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Comments
It has been said many times, the delay is intentional. As in, not a bug.
Annoying, yes. Bug, no.
--Red Annorax
I'm not saying it is a great solution. In fact, it is relatively annoying. But it isn't worth getting that worked up over. Sign in, check your mail, look at your fleet projects. Heck, go use the head if you have to. *Then* check your doff missions.
--Red Annorax
Takes ages for each mission to register as completed once I log in.
I am going to quit doffing for good I think, shame because this was the main reason I kept playing.
--Red Annorax
Sorry, can you explain the issue in more detail? Is this the same as the negative completion times other people are seeing?
I think it is likely that Thomas the Cat and the UI programmer have been put on "more important" projects for Delta Rising. Despite the poor state of the doff UI, they haven't made any significant changes to it in two weeks.
Makes me wonder why they were in such a hurry to release it if they knew they wouldn't be able to provide much support for it before switching over to the expansion.
Ah, I guess I haven't noticed because I don't check doff assignments right away after logging in.
I think they had to change the doff system because they decided to tie crafting into doffing. My guess is that crafting was the primary goal; the changes to doffing were a secondary goal needed to support crafting. You can see how this played out on Tribble. They started a feedback thread on crafting, but no feedback thread on doffing; all the feedback threads on the doffing changes were started by players.
Overall, I am unhappy with how the doffing changes were handled in Season 9.5:
1. No official feedback thread on the forums
2. Features still being worked on after release
3. Many bugs still present
4. Removal of the exploration clusters without considering the refresh time.
5. Removal of the exploration clusters without considering which assignments were lost. They seemed to be under the mistaken impression that only colonial assignments were specific to exploration clusters.
DOFFing worked. The changes were purely a GUI skin covering the older system. The older system worked and was FAR more efficient. In terms of menu options, in terms of filtering, in terms of everything. The only issue was a semi-recent glitch where the auto recommendations for doff slots were super terrible, BUT this was a recent bug since in the previous update it worked with decent suggestions.
So, short of fixing some of the logic behind what it suggests to fill in a slot, the older interface was a hundred times better. The only reason for the change was to try to update it to some kind of lame-duck "mobile phone ap" friendly visual style. Only... it's not mobile friendly AT ALL. The older interface was much more mobile friendly.
It all goes back to the STO gateway and the interface there. I presume it's an early attempt to make doffing available via web browser, but IMO that's doomed to fail as a concept.
I have stopped playing because you broke the Doffs. When they are fixed, I will play again, but until then, I simply cannot tolerate making me wait minutes after logging in for all the Doff assignments to trickle in, so... as long as you don't care that people aren't playing for it, by all means, do NOT fix it.
The changes were not solely cosmetic, even if one disregards the removal of the exploration clusters and considers UI changes only. There were behavioral as well as cosmetic changes to the UI. Geko has stated that the doff UI was changed to make it easier to port to Gateway. But the question is "Why did they do it now instead of waiting until they had more time to devote to it?" My guess is that they had to change the doff system to meet certain requirements for crafting; for example, doffs put on crafting assignments are unavailable for doffing and vice versa. It thus seemed like an opportune time to change the doff UI, since they had to change the doff system anyway and they were already working on the crafting UI. People tend think of a UI update as a mere skin change, but it is often more involved. I think that they believed updating the doff UI would be relatively simple once the crafting stuff was done, but they sorely underestimated the amount of work needed. And now, they can't devote the resources needed to fix it, because they are working on Delta Rising.
Yeah, it seems to highlight the top doffs no matter what their specialization is, which is pretty useless.
Joined January 2009
I reported this bug a month ago.
Doff selection list displays wrong colors for specializations
Just allow me to ask one simple question:
Let's assume actual STO game ui is written with a mixture of BigWorld, Flash c++ and perhaps pyton or what not (i simply don't want to run it under debugger). Gateway tech is pretty much some sort of home grown webservices and jQuery (curious can press F12 in chrome to see what it's all about).
So. The question:
How does minor UI facelift in unrelated area can be justification for another completely unrelated tech?
Just curious that's all.
Are you asking me or Geko, who may not even be reading this thread? I have no special insight into how Cryptic's code works. Your guess is as a good as mine; in fact, yours may be better, depending on your particular programming expertise. My guess is that the database is probably shared. Much of the back-end logic, such as the code that communicates with the database, is probably also shared. As you pointed out, the Gateway web server and your web browser likely run on a completely different architecture than the STO game server and game client, so most of the front-end code would be different as well. However, Cryptic may have their own UI templating language, which could be shared by the game client and Gateway web server. Previous comments by devs have indicated that they do, in fact, have a UI templating language, but I do not know whether it is used by the doff UI or not.
With the old system
- I seldom wasted my Caitian flight deck officers on missions that didn't need them so I could use them for the one mission for which they are essential
- It was easier to find my doctors for doing Support, and they get the crit chance up to 33%
- I didn't have to unselect several things before assigning officers
- I would have an easier time not wasting research lab scientists since I would only use them when required so I could do more of the of science options to get R&D materials.
Also, for R&D, there needs to be an ABORT OPTION!
The problem with this Zynga style approach, by making things more tedious and time consuming for the players in the hopes that they'll spend money, is that they don't offer an alternative. With Facebook or iOS games that require you to click here, click there, wait for four hours, click again is that they offer a means to bypass that by injecting currency into the game. Cryptic redesigned the DOFF system to be more time consuming, but neglected to take advantage of the monetization opportunity. The likely result that they'll see is that people may spend LESS money, as they'll spend too much of their gaming time doffing and opt to bypass other areas where money may be involved.
It's a gamble, and I'm not so sure it'll pay off, in THIS metric's opinion.
Joined January 2009