Yeah, I read Three's last night but I wanted to wait until you'd finished D'Trel's part.
So, Three ended up in Starfleet by accident? She was trying to meet up with those aliens who turned up in your LC65 "Movie Night" piece and took a wrong turn somewhere in the spacetime continuum? Funny.
D'Trel's was pretty good too, really gets across that the Tal'Shiar took everything she ever had from her and left her with only rage and revenge. But you goofed on the Rihan name structure. The i' or ir' part is a locative signifying their home region, not their family name (that's t' or tr').
--Heh. It was pretty funny in retrospect, and she DID get a date with a hot naughty actress, which turned into a bestselling holoprogram...
Typical Three stuff, really.
--Dang, I'll edit that. That's just a misspelling for Tovan, my bad.
Yeah, D'trel is not a terribly happy person. She lost her fiancee, her best friend, her Commander, more friends and acquaintances than you can count on both hands...
Really, when Hakeev revealed the full depths of depravity that he and his goons did to Adani, that was the last scrap of hope that D'trel had being crushed. Which is why she lost it and killed him the way she did.
I want to give her a happy ending, though. She deserves it.
Anyway, working on the Xindi prompt, going to see how well it goes.
I want to give her a happy ending, though. She deserves it.
Well, between "The Accord" and "Movie Night" it looks to me like she might be starting to heal just a little bit.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Well, between "The Accord" and "Movie Night" it looks to me like she might be starting to heal just a little bit.
Well, having a telepathic Lethean mindhound as your therapist and Zoloft available as long as the replicators are working; these things tend to help mental illness, depression, and PTSD.
I even joke about how generic Ryan's original reason for joining Starfleet is in the story! :P
I'm glad you enjoyed it! Which part of the battle did you prefer?
Absolutely, that was what made it all the more fun for me
A few things, really... The descriptions of the attack on the Horizon, I could see clearly in my mind's eye, and the bridge scene showed some outstanding characters, which the understated destruction of the Horizon really drove home nicely :cool:
@ryan218 - beautiful story, very well written. It brings out real depth in Ryan's character which I had not seen before. Thank you for sharing that.
@worffan101 - Three's story: predictable, but amusing, as usual. D'trel's: definitely the more interesting of the two. What I really like about this is how you play off of Hakeev's sadism and obsessive hatred we see in the STO missions and use that to craft both his and D'trel's characters. Nicely done.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
@worffan101 - Three's story: predictable, but amusing, as usual. D'trel's: definitely the more interesting of the two. What I really like about this is how you play off of Hakeev's sadism and obsessive hatred we see in the STO missions and use that to craft both his and D'trel's characters. Nicely done.
Thank you! Yeah, Three's a predictable woman in her own way, and her insane antics can be pretty humorous.
I think I did pretty well with D'trel's story. She and Hakeev are alike in a lot of ways; the major difference is that he's a sadistic, disgusting person at his core, and D'trel's a basically decent woman who's been twisted by horrific loss and decades of seething hatred for the guy who took everything she loved from her.
It was one of those things where I started writing and couldn't stop. Even though it was after midnight at that point...:rolleyes:
[20:26] <DontEvenAsk> all the action is at the end of the sentence.
20:27] <DontEvenAsk> the description is not anywhere near where it should be.
[20:27] <DontEvenAsk> I have found that a great way to do things is open with a description, without telling what you're describing.
[20:27] <DontEvenAsk> then, let the name and exposition of the described thing slip in passing in the next few sentences.
[20:27] <GroundPetrel> OK
[20:28] <DontEvenAsk> and, general advice for Ryan as well:
[20:29] <DontEvenAsk> the /stuff/ comes first. loads of prepositions, especially ones referring to time, indicate that action, description, and dialogue are being concatenated.
[20:29] <DontEvenAsk> make the sentences and paragraphs top-heavy with actual /things/ happening.
[20:32] <DontEvenAsk> for instance, I am not attempting to rewrite the paragraph and have him use it, but as an example: I would open the beginning paragraph with the dialogue, maybe add some more little dialogue bits to expose the sorta infodumpy parts about backstory that you get, and then describe the actions and physical situation.
[20:32] <DontEvenAsk> ...we should probably take this review to PM.
[20:33] <GroundPetrel> Heh.
[20:33] <DontEvenAsk> the third paragraph can become entirely dialogue. pure infodump.
[20:33] <GroundPetrel> OK
[20:34] <DontEvenAsk> "Her hazel-brown hair mostly obscures her spots until it gets to her shoulders, but she's smart enough to know that Ryan isn't admiring the spots" first of all, is this self-insert fic? Second of all, if the spots are hidden, why is it contradicting that to say that she knows he isn't looking at them?
[20:35] <DontEvenAsk> "admiring" twice in such rapid succession...is a little odd.
[20:36] <DontEvenAsk> "She smiles at him teasingly, before he looks at her in shock, his eyes widening before he straightens up, clearing his throat" why are they doing anything that is in this sentence?! So confusing.
[20:36] <GroundPetrel> Ryan is the character's name, we call the author Ryan because his forum name is Ryan218.
[20:36] <GroundPetrel> Not sure of his real name.
[20:36] <DontEvenAsk> "Daya shakes her head, "Something wrong?" " why would she shake her head at this? also, "shakes her head" should not be a dialogue tag, as the comma makes it appear to be.
[20:38] <DontEvenAsk> "Daya frowns at him before putting her hot chocolate on the coffee table and reminding him, "You know, it's not a crime to look at me." " best moment in the fic so far.
[20:38] <DontEvenAsk> however, I believe a little less "before" and "then" and a little more sentence division could improve it.
[20:38] <DontEvenAsk> the fic, not the moment.
[20:39] <DontEvenAsk> I mean, the moment is included in the fic.
[20:40] <GroundPetrel> OK
[20:40] <DontEvenAsk> (I am basically saying all this as if speaking to the author, assuming that you transmit them.)
[20:40] <DontEvenAsk> just because a phrase goes before a piece of dialogue does not mean that it should end with a comma.
[20:40] <GroundPetrel> Yeah. I copy-[aste this stuff.
[20:41] <DontEvenAsk> it only needs a comma if it is a dialogue tag. "It doesn't" is not a dialogue tag.
[20:41] <DontEvenAsk> ok, excellent.
*discussion of Doctor Who in other chat tab*
[20:48] <DontEvenAsk> " Daya lets him stay silent for a while. His parents is the hardest subject for Ryan to talk about; ever since their death at Starbase 24, 6 years ago."
[20:49] <DontEvenAsk> ~iiiiinfoooo-DUUUUMP!~
[20:49] <DontEvenAsk> however, between this and "Daya frowns, concerned. "Ryan, what are you doing here? Why did you join Starfleet?" " is the best bit of the whole fic so far.
[20:49] <DontEvenAsk> funny, cute dialogue.
[20:50] <DontEvenAsk> also, "Daya frowns, concerned" did not get a comma at the end of it! It got a period, which is excellent.
[20:52] <DontEvenAsk> Petrel, does "medical ship" usually get capitalized?
[20:54] <GroundPetrel> Uh...
[20:54] <GroundPetrel> Not sure.
[20:54] <DontEvenAsk> physical descriptors all over the place, yet I have no idea what is actually happening.
[20:54] <DontEvenAsk> What are the different-colored beams?
[20:55] <DontEvenAsk> The colors are distracting.
[20:55] <DontEvenAsk> I can tell there might be a subtler way to slip them in.
[20:55] <DontEvenAsk> (god, I feel like a horrible nitpicky ***** doing this. every. ******n. time.)
[20:55] <GroundPetrel> ok...
[20:55] <DontEvenAsk> "He'd been at Science Station 3 minutes earlier, before a previous volley killed the regular helmsman."
[20:55] <DontEvenAsk> retroactive infodumps again.
[20:56] <DontEvenAsk> describe things in order. exposition, description, action.
[20:56] <DontEvenAsk> "On the Bridge of the Horizon, Commander Gareth Allington, the ship's First Officer , is kneeling on the deck next to Captain S'vorik, with two fingers against her neck, searching for a pulse."
[20:57] <DontEvenAsk> okay,
[20:57] <DontEvenAsk> stopping the description in this sentence for exposition.
[20:57] <DontEvenAsk> Which may not even be necessary.
[20:57] <DontEvenAsk> Do we need to know the "Commander" bit? Why not say "First Officer"?
[20:58] <DontEvenAsk> it's more relevant right now; the situation is clearly that the captain is dead, dying, or at least injured, which would make Gareth's status as second-in-command most relevant.
[20:59] <DontEvenAsk> "searching for a pulse" assumes the traditional "check with two fingers at neck or wrist"; no need to describe.
[20:59] <DontEvenAsk> "is kneeling", although this might be nitpicky, could give way to "kneels", slightly less passive in construction.
[21:00] <DontEvenAsk> any instance of "in the background" can be, I'm sorry for my wording here, summarily nixed.
[21:01] <DontEvenAsk> "[x] can be seen/heard/[insert sensory verb here]"; "behind them, [x is occurring]"; etc.
[21:01] <DontEvenAsk> it feels like the story is a description of a painting, rather than a story.
[21:01] <GroundPetrel> OK
[21:02] <DontEvenAsk> A story should /stand in/ for a painting. Not make you feel like there is one around the corner.
[21:02] <DontEvenAsk> also, I shall add the ye olde advice of:
[21:02] <DontEvenAsk> try to cut down on the adverbs!!
[21:02] <DontEvenAsk> if there is an adverb, try to see if you can't make it into just a verb.
[21:03] <DontEvenAsk> "slowly pushed" can become "hauled", for instance.
[21:03] <DontEvenAsk> "Gareth stands up, looking at the viewscreen to see the Klingon Battleship launch a full spread of photon torpedoes."
[21:03] <DontEvenAsk> passive again.
[21:03] <DontEvenAsk> the ship does things on the screen.
[21:03] <DontEvenAsk> that is the important part.
[21:03] <DontEvenAsk> making the main verb "to see" is less good.
[21:04] <GroundPetrel> So, "and seeing" would be better?
[21:04] <DontEvenAsk> I am not done, but must go.
[21:04] <DontEvenAsk> nnnO.
[21:04] <GroundPetrel> ok...
[21:04] <DontEvenAsk> "to see" is not the important verb.
[21:04] <GroundPetrel> Quick rating out of 10 then?
[21:04] <GroundPetrel> ...
[21:04] <DontEvenAsk> ehhh...
[21:04] <DontEvenAsk> 7?
[21:04] <DontEvenAsk> 6.5?
[21:04] <GroundPetrel> OK.
[21:04] <GroundPetrel> TY!
[21:04] <DontEvenAsk> could offer more constructive later.
[21:05] <GroundPetrel> Too much passive voice?
[21:05] <GroundPetrel> OK.
[21:05] <GroundPetrel> Thanks!
In general feedback: Characters and setting are good, plot is good, style needs less passive voice, and less exposition (which IMHO is part of this specific fic, not your stuff in general).
Ok, took a stab at the Xindi one. Being I have a char who's already demonstrated a working Wells Class ship elsewhere, figured it fit
I had a SQUEE when Johnny started describing the dimensions of time. Intersecting quantum reality planes do funny things to my brain. :P
Awesome story!
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
One of the two main solutions I could think of, for a reasonably ethical solution to this situation. Very tough one to have to figure out, that's for sure.
BTW, I posted the start of a story titled "TRIBBLE of the Machine." It's going to be the start of a story following up on Faces in the Flames.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I had a SQUEE when Johnny started describing the dimensions of time. Intersecting quantum reality planes do funny things to my brain. :P
Awesome story!
If you haven't yet, go thou and read Robert Heinlein's "The Number of the Beast--". It's where Johnny's description of six-dimensional space-time comes from.
And given that the Burroughs-Carter Continua Device led to the discovery of multiuniversal multiperson solipsism, I wonder which universe they wound up in...
If you haven't yet, go thou and read Robert Heinlein's "The Number of the Beast--". It's where Johnny's description of six-dimensional space-time comes from.
And given that the Burroughs-Carter Continua Device led to the discovery of multiuniversal multiperson solipsism, I wonder which universe they wound up in...
I read that one a few years ago.
Of course, not all of Heinlein's conclusions were correct. (Reality is, as always, much stranger than fiction.) But I still get excited when people's minds start trying to wrap around six-dimensional spacetime.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
That bit at the end where everybody was worried about the time dilation...man, at least one person on that ship has a ridiculously high Janeway factor, huh?
...in fact, given the details set down earlier in the story, I'd say they ALL have high Janeway factors. Higher even than the Doctor and his average companions.
On another note, I'm working on my own version of this prompt, with D'trel. It's going a little slowly, but I'm going to try and push through.
@ryan - TRIBBLE. Yes. That was really good. I thought about the parents angle. Technically I have that, but it's not too fleshed out. Now I need to change it up because that's been done very with this entry.
This idea is an event I've known about for some time, but it only occurred to me to write it once the challenge was posted. It deals with 'mature themes' within the constraints set by both episode(s) and film which covered the topic. Please enjoy
For ease of reference/visualization, here're the actors I would cast if I was filming this tomorrow...
Marcus Kane - Matt Bomer
Silix - Zohar Strauss
Alix Kane - Zooey Deschanel
T'Reya - Emily Ratajkowski
Matthew Dougherty - Anthony Zerbe
Wesley Cooper - Brad Pitt
T'Nari - Sadie Frost
T'Pinna - Anna Silk
T'Fairu - Mackenzie Foy
Such a tragedy knowing his later history, that he left Vulcan and T'Reya. Though I disagree with the methods used to restore his equilibrium when he was younger, it is clear that he could have drawn a sense of meaning and belonging among those Vulcans who accepted him. To me it is extremely poignant to really see here all that he lost.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Such a tragedy knowing his later history, that he left Vulcan and T'Reya. Though I disagree with the methods used to restore his equilibrium when he was younger, it is clear that he could have drawn a sense of meaning and belonging among those Vulcans who accepted him. To me it is extremely poignant to really see here all that he lost.
Thanks, I think it is tragic to see, even in that time of loss, what he actually had, and how circumstance, and eventually his own poor judgement, took those things from him. Equally, 'falling from grace' was essentially the theme of this piece, as it equally showed Admiral Dougherty as, while certainly a flawed individual, not as much so as he became in Insurrection (which I blame on the death of his wife, which the novelisation said happened soon before he took the mission with the Son'a) When I first wrote this scene, the emotional reaction might have seemed 'too much', but when held in contrast to this entry, I think his reaction was pretty restrained...
This idea is an event I've known about for some time, but it only occurred to me to write it once the challenge was posted. It deals with 'mature themes' within the constraints set by both episode(s) and film which covered the topic. Please enjoy
For ease of reference/visualization, here're the actors I would cast if I was filming this tomorrow...
Marcus Kane - Matt Bomer
Silix - Zohar Strauss
Alix Kane - Zooey Deschanel
T'Reya - Emily Ratajkowski
Matthew Dougherty - Anthony Zerbe
Wesley Cooper - Brad Pitt
T'Nari - Sadie Frost
T'Pinna - Anna Silk
T'Fairu - Mackenzie Foy
Nice one as usual, marcusdkane. Well-written, smart use of the curtain. Not much of a plot, but then again neither did mine for this LC.
In retrospect...you kind of did make the right decision in killing off Marcus. I honestly was hoping for Ael's Kobayashi Maru, and maybe even Ael going to town on Huntington.
Marcus, IMHO, suffers from Superman Syndrome, which I consciously try to avoid with my characters. Basically, a powerful character who is always moral and just, and even when xe breaks societal traditions is generally shown as doing it for "good" reasons...gets boring.
We KNOW that Superman will do the right thing, and will succeed. On the other hand, we KNOW that Ael will do the right thing, but we DON'T know that she will succeed. With Three, OTOH, she will almost certainly succeed on any mission, but she's a complete psychopath who kills people for fun.
Basically, Marcus, like Superman, is a bit of a trump card. A known factor, who will ALWAYS do the right thing and pretty much always will succeed. Not a bad thing in small doses, but building a running series out of the character is very hard.
Short version: I prefer Ael. She's badass, but doesn't have both massive superpowers and perfect morality.
I hope you take no offense at this; as usual, I love your writing. Just...I prefer Ael.
Nice one as usual, marcusdkane. Well-written, smart use of the curtain. Not much of a plot, but then again neither did mine for this LC.
In retrospect...you kind of did make the right decision in killing off Marcus. I honestly was hoping for Ael's Kobayashi Maru, and maybe even Ael going to town on Huntington.
Marcus, IMHO, suffers from Superman Syndrome, which I consciously try to avoid with my characters. Basically, a powerful character who is always moral and just, and even when xe breaks societal traditions is generally shown as doing it for "good" reasons...gets boring.
We KNOW that Superman will do the right thing, and will succeed. On the other hand, we KNOW that Ael will do the right thing, but we DON'T know that she will succeed. With Three, OTOH, she will almost certainly succeed on any mission, but she's a complete psychopath who kills people for fun.
Basically, Marcus, like Superman, is a bit of a trump card. A known factor, who will ALWAYS do the right thing and pretty much always will succeed. Not a bad thing in small doses, but building a running series out of the character is very hard.
Short version: I prefer Ael. She's badass, but doesn't have both massive superpowers and perfect morality.
I hope you take no offense at this; as usual, I love your writing. Just...I prefer Ael.
No offence taken at all, because you understand exactly why Marcus had to be killed off*. However, I find it amusing that you make the Superman comparison with regard his morality, because as mentioned, not just within this entry, but in your comment the other day, you quite rightly pointed out, that Marcus' morality, is anything but perfect... Game of Thrones-Style relationship with his sister, breaking an interstellar convention (albeit under orders) which resulted in the events seen in Pegasus (yup, that's right, if the hints in here weren't strong enough, he was the one who actually built the cloak) questionable relationships with women... I'm glad you felt that the curtain was well used, but my main concern/challenge there, was getting the tone right for what could indeed have been viewed as someone taking advantage of someone else in a pretty despicable way. As I said the other day, Paris didn't do that when B'Elanna threw herself at him, but, that wasn't a proper pon farr, just a kind of psychic echo from Vorik's, in this situation, T'Reya was more like Spock on Genesis, where Saavik 'took one for the team' (but in verse, it's unlikely that the majority of people would have known that, hence Marcus question of if it was something another Vulcan would help another with) One point you hadn't addressed, which I'd be keen for your thoughts on, is how well you felt I wrote Admiral Dougherty, compared to his appearance in Insurrection?
*While his body is dead (inactive might be a more accurate term) his consciousness is locked in the body of his MU counterpart who, to use the expression, makes Three look like a nun, and he simply has to endure it
[Edit to add]The outcome in this piece was equally somewhat pre-determined, as from the intro (and his bio) these were events I'd long known about, rather than channelling specifically for this LC, it was simply a matter of putting them down, hence the lack of plot twists etc
Dougherty was OK. He made more sense than he did in Insurrection, and his death scene was better (as in, he had no death scene, and didn't have to suffer the humiliation of being beaten by a terminally ill Son'a).
When I say that Marcus has Superman-style morality, I mean that he's pretty much universally treated as doing the right thing, and even when he does something not within traditional moral or ethical rules it's treated as morally right among the major protagonists.
Basically...even when he screws his sister, people treat it like it's OK. Especially people who are meant to be protagonists, like T'Reya (not a perfect example as she too has romantic entanglements with Marcus, but still...).
Also, I really think that Darien Kane should make an appearance again soon. Heh. He and Three would probably get along juuuust fine. Which is creepy.
Dougherty was OK. He made more sense than he did in Insurrection, and his death scene was better (as in, he had no death scene, and didn't have to suffer the humiliation of being beaten by a terminally ill Son'a).
That's cool, as I never see him as a Bad Guy, just someone who naively got rolled like a chump by the Son'a (when he rejected the offer of Ru'afo's girls, that's when you knew he actually had morals, and wasn't doing the mission for himself, but genuinely for the Federation as he said to Picard) and I wanted to show more of that 'somewhat morally questionable but heart in the right place' characterisation which Insurrection simply never had the time to explore fully...
When I say that Marcus has Superman-style morality, I mean that he's pretty much universally treated as doing the right thing, and even when he does something not within traditional moral or ethical rules it's treated as morally right among the major protagonists.
Basically...even when he screws his sister, people treat it like it's OK. Especially people who are meant to be protagonists, like T'Reya (not a perfect example as she too has romantic entanglements with Marcus, but still...).
Gonna have to disagree with you slightly there, as most of the other protagonists, Cooper, Dougherty, Cheliss, Janeway, Alyosha, etc, all expressed distaste at his personal life, but indeed, he did get given a pass as a competent and fair officer. T'Reya, on the other hand, due to the mind-melds, actually knew what he knew and felt what he felt, so she was in the unique position of being able to understand, and then simply not judging, because she's nice like that
That's cool, as I never see him as a Bad Guy, just someone who naively got rolled like a chump by the Son'a (when he rejected the offer of Ru'afo's girls, that's when you knew he actually had morals, and wasn't doing the mission for himself, but genuinely for the Federation as he said to Picard) and I wanted to show more of that 'somewhat morally questionable but heart in the right place' characterisation which Insurrection simply never had the time to explore fully...
Gonna have to disagree with you slightly there, as most of the other protagonists, Cooper, Dougherty, Cheliss, Janeway, Alyosha, etc, all expressed distaste at his personal life, but indeed, he did get given a pass as a competent and fair officer. T'Reya, on the other hand, due to the mind-melds, actually knew what he knew and felt what he felt, so she was in the unique position of being able to understand, and then simply not judging, because she's nice like that
You never know, when the MU is next mentioned, he might indeed, and yeah, Three would likely be his personal bodyguard
--Yes, I think you did quite well there. And it was a better treatment of the character than just having him get lol facerolled by a terminally ill Son'a...
--Point. But we can discount Janeway because she needs serious therapy.
Like I said, T'Reya isn't the best example. I will say, though, that the part that really creeped me out was when he met S'rR's and it read to me that he basically saw her as a copy of his recently-deceased wife. THAT was creepy. Little Siri was creepy in general, too.
Basically, Marcus's lack of meaningful consequences reminds me a lot of how nobody ever really called the Avengers out for being titanic jerks during this story arc. Not as bad, obviously; he didn't actually stand by and let someone get hurt like that, but he DID do some extremely socially unacceptable things and got off light.
I prefer Ael; as I said before, someone can be God Mode OR a good person. The Sisko being the exception because Avery Brooks and because his god mode comes with enough of a price that they can only be used sparingly.
--Alriiiiiiight!!! So, do you think Mirror Three should be the nicest little living superweapon ever, or a complete sadistic monster without any control whatsoever?
--Alriiiiiiight!!! So, do you think Mirror Three should be the nicest little living superweapon ever, or a complete sadistic monster without any control whatsoever?
I think nicest little thing ever - just for weird factor. :P
I wonder how Three would respond to that?
Heh, knowing Three, she'd probably sleep with her anyway! :P
--Yes, I think you did quite well there. And it was a better treatment of the character than just having him get lol facerolled by a terminally ill Son'a...
As long as it came across as Matthew Dougherty, not just 'text and any name Admiral', I'm happy ^_^ The problem I had writing the two stooges, er, admirals, is that they both 'sound' very similar... For Cooper, think Brad Pitt in Devil's Own... This is a five hundred year old guy, who has kept up with the times, but still slips into 20th C vernacular, which irritatingly, is very much how Dougherty spoke in Insurrection...
I will say, though, that the part that really creeped me out was when he met S'rR's and it read to me that he basically saw her as a copy of his recently-deceased wife. THAT was creepy.
Oh dear, that wasn't how that scene should have read... It was meant to establish by description, that she was (effectively) a clone of K'm'rn, not him thinking "Mmm, jail-bait... Imma get me some of that.." >_<
Basically, Marcus's lack of meaningful consequences reminds me a lot of how nobody ever really called the Avengers out for being titanic jerks during this story arc. Not as bad, obviously; he didn't actually stand by and let someone get hurt like that, but he DID do some extremely socially unacceptable things and got off light.
That's Plot Necessity for you, but also, why I felt he had to go. I just felt his 'taking command' story would be more interesting than Ael's (which has already been posted over a few entries) or her reasons for joining Starfleet, which as Ryan said, 'boring and generic'
--Alriiiiiiight!!! So, do you think Mirror Three should be the nicest little living superweapon ever, or a complete sadistic monster without any control whatsoever?
That's an interesting point... MU Marcus was (even more) f**ked up because he hadn't had therapy after his mother's death because his family never moved to Vulcan. MU Vic Fontaine was not a hologram... Thinking about it, MU 'Three' would likely closer to Original's 'original' personality... She'd probably be the one standing outside Darien's arms factory protesting
As long as it came across as Matthew Dougherty, not just 'text and any name Admiral', I'm happy ^_^ The problem I had writing the two stooges, er, admirals, is that they both 'sound' very similar... For Cooper, think Brad Pitt in Devil's Own... This is a five hundred year old guy, who has kept up with the times, but still slips into 20th C vernacular, which irritatingly, is very much how Dougherty spoke in Insurrection...
Even a broken watch is right twice a day
Oh dear, that wasn't how that scene should have read... It was meant to establish by description, that she was (effectively) a clone of K'm'rn, not him thinking "Mmm, jail-bait... Imma get me some of that.." >_<
Of course she was ^_^ Creepy Child Trope is not much use if said child is not creepy
That's Plot Necessity for you, but also, why I felt he had to go. I just felt his 'taking command' story would be more interesting than Ael's (which has already been posted over a few entries) or her reasons for joining Starfleet, which as Ryan said, 'boring and generic'
That's an interesting point... MU Marcus was (even more) f**ked up because he hadn't had therapy after his mother's death because his family never moved to Vulcan. MU Vic Fontaine was not a hologram... Thinking about it, MU 'Three' would likely closer to Original's 'original' personality... She'd probably be the one standing outside Darien's arms factory protesting
--Yeah, you have a good point there; but Dougherty did have a similar voice in this piece, and you really did the character justice IMHO.
--Yeah. I think Janeway did the right thing once or twice...
--Nah, it came off to me as more "guy who's just lost his dearly-beloved wife sees a very close look-alike". Still creepy, but not really at the same level.
--Exactly. ^_^
--Yeah, I try to avoid Plot Necessity. It can...cause issues.
Maybe try Palmer? She was a wild child, she certainly might have a good story in there.
--Hoo boy. I think you're right.
Just trying to imagine Mirror Three as a superpowered vigilante activist...
--Yeah. I think Janeway did the right thing once or twice...
To be fair, she did... I was just meaning that where you've said Marcus got a pass on his behaviour (again, plot necessity dictated that accommodations had to be made to keep him a viable character) he was, maybe not openly despised, but certainly not universally popular amongst his peers...
--Nah, it came off to me as more "guy who's just lost his dearly-beloved wife sees a very close look-alike". Still creepy, but not really at the same level.
Damn, because that wasn't how the scene was supposed to read >_< (not worth revising it now though)
--Yeah, I try to avoid Plot Necessity. It can...cause issues.
Yeah, realistically, I should have killed him off years ago, but had wanted to use him and his crew for gameplay, but then the 30 year time jump threw me... Arguably, his life would have been much happier had he stayed on Vulcan teaching the harp to the kids... (Might've allowed him to try and kick Scolak's TRIBBLE too, because as shown, whatever he decided to do, T'Reya had already decided to move on with her life...)
Maybe try Palmer? She was a wild child, she certainly might have a good story in there.
Actually, she wasn't... She was a perfect student till she started getting bored after her midshipman cruise and started acting like a TRIBBLE, which immediately stopped when Marcus put her in a position of responsibility... Also means she never actually took the Kobyashi Maru (not everyone took it. Spock didn't) just final exams with the rest of her academic class. I've a few ideas percolating, so I'll see who steps up to the plate for that... :cool:
--Yeah, I try to avoid Plot Necessity. It can...cause issues.
Yeah, I kinda ran afoul of that with the backstory to The Wrong Reflection. It's in-character for Eleya to not put up with BS like what was going on at Tuvok's conference (whitewashing Klingon war crimes, D'Tan overextending his resources, and who the frak invited that Ferengi?), but realistically it's going to cause a diplomatic incident if she does anything about it.
My solution was to have her cause the incident, then make her a Bunny-Ears Lawyer: she's not a great diplomat but she's a good combat CO, and after the battles at Earth and Qo'noS Starfleet needs everyone on deck. So she gets lightly punished (possibly more lightly than was intended, given she wasn't interested in an admiral's flag anyway) and sent back to a combat post. Doesn't hurt that thanks to Cryptic's backstory there's a Bajoran in the Cabinet (Shad Ona) who I wrote as backing her up offscreen.
It's not without precedent: Starfleet needing every competent combat CO they could get is about the only explanation I can think of for Solok.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Regarding Marcus Kane's reputation, the reason Alyosha did not *completely* freeze him out (and also refuses to be drawn into conversation about a majority of the time he knew him, though he *does* talk to me about the earliest days) is twofold.
One: Marcus Kane of old has a lot to do with Alyosha having a career after Starfleet was done using him for Dominion War purposes, and being able to move into his true field (science). Kane also worked one end of the transfer to the 77th Fleet when the time came--a move that I *know* for sure occurred because the top science position aboard the Endeavor would not be vacated (whereas the 77th was one of the options with a billet available right away and amenable fleet and ship CO's)...but that may also have occurred, depending on timing, to remove Alyosha from a situation that was clearly causing him discomfort. See, Alyosha did not believe the first set of allegations against Kane--he thought it was jealousy over Kane's immortality leading to a disgusting rumor. He defended Kane against those accusations, and Kane knew this and allowed him to do it since it benefitted him. When things got hot and steamy with Siri, Alyosha was not only disgusted by a situation he sees as extremely inappropriate, but felt betrayed by Kane's abuse of his trust.
Two: Alyosha considers Kane's actions to be a moral violation on a combination of religious grounds and the fact that he believes Kane's being Siri's father, and Siri's sexual imprinting at an early age, means that insufficient grounds for consent exist. That said...he is not as vocal as some might be, because Alyosha is biologically unable to desire humanoids, and psychologically and emotionally unable to desire his own species. Having never experienced any such feelings, for himself, he is a bit reluctant to be *too* loud in his feelings on those subjects (though you can bet if anything nonconsensual or constituting abuse of power for sexual purposes takes place in his purview, he will take serious action in it).
Between his gratitude towards Marcus as he once was, and his (literal) ignorance of sexual drives, though, that is why he goes the route of refusing to volunteer information from certain time framed, and still at least invited Kane to his pinning-on ceremony as captain (which Kane likely declined to spare Alyosha the awkwardness). But that's why he doesn't just outright flame Marcus even after Marcus' passing.
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--Heh. It was pretty funny in retrospect, and she DID get a date with a hot naughty actress, which turned into a bestselling holoprogram...
Typical Three stuff, really.
--Dang, I'll edit that. That's just a misspelling for Tovan, my bad.
Yeah, D'trel is not a terribly happy person. She lost her fiancee, her best friend, her Commander, more friends and acquaintances than you can count on both hands...
Really, when Hakeev revealed the full depths of depravity that he and his goons did to Adani, that was the last scrap of hope that D'trel had being crushed. Which is why she lost it and killed him the way she did.
I want to give her a happy ending, though. She deserves it.
Anyway, working on the Xindi prompt, going to see how well it goes.
Well, between "The Accord" and "Movie Night" it looks to me like she might be starting to heal just a little bit.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Well, having a telepathic Lethean mindhound as your therapist and Zoloft available as long as the replicators are working; these things tend to help mental illness, depression, and PTSD.
Absolutely, that was what made it all the more fun for me
A few things, really... The descriptions of the attack on the Horizon, I could see clearly in my mind's eye, and the bridge scene showed some outstanding characters, which the understated destruction of the Horizon really drove home nicely :cool:
@worffan101 - Three's story: predictable, but amusing, as usual. D'trel's: definitely the more interesting of the two. What I really like about this is how you play off of Hakeev's sadism and obsessive hatred we see in the STO missions and use that to craft both his and D'trel's characters. Nicely done.
@angelus214 - interesting backstory there.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
Thank you! Yeah, Three's a predictable woman in her own way, and her insane antics can be pretty humorous.
I think I did pretty well with D'trel's story. She and Hakeev are alike in a lot of ways; the major difference is that he's a sadistic, disgusting person at his core, and D'trel's a basically decent woman who's been twisted by horrific loss and decades of seething hatred for the guy who took everything she loved from her.
It was one of those things where I started writing and couldn't stop. Even though it was after midnight at that point...:rolleyes:
In general feedback: Characters and setting are good, plot is good, style needs less passive voice, and less exposition (which IMHO is part of this specific fic, not your stuff in general).
"he's as dangerous as a ferret with a chainsaw."
I had a SQUEE when Johnny started describing the dimensions of time. Intersecting quantum reality planes do funny things to my brain. :P
Awesome story!
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
One of the two main solutions I could think of, for a reasonably ethical solution to this situation. Very tough one to have to figure out, that's for sure.
BTW, I posted the start of a story titled "TRIBBLE of the Machine." It's going to be the start of a story following up on Faces in the Flames.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1179211
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And given that the Burroughs-Carter Continua Device led to the discovery of multiuniversal multiperson solipsism, I wonder which universe they wound up in...
I read that one a few years ago.
Of course, not all of Heinlein's conclusions were correct. (Reality is, as always, much stranger than fiction.) But I still get excited when people's minds start trying to wrap around six-dimensional spacetime.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
That bit at the end where everybody was worried about the time dilation...man, at least one person on that ship has a ridiculously high Janeway factor, huh?
...in fact, given the details set down earlier in the story, I'd say they ALL have high Janeway factors. Higher even than the Doctor and his average companions.
On another note, I'm working on my own version of this prompt, with D'trel. It's going a little slowly, but I'm going to try and push through.
For ease of reference/visualization, here're the actors I would cast if I was filming this tomorrow...
Marcus Kane - Matt Bomer
Silix - Zohar Strauss
Alix Kane - Zooey Deschanel
T'Reya - Emily Ratajkowski
Matthew Dougherty - Anthony Zerbe
Wesley Cooper - Brad Pitt
T'Nari - Sadie Frost
T'Pinna - Anna Silk
T'Fairu - Mackenzie Foy
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Nice one as usual, marcusdkane. Well-written, smart use of the curtain. Not much of a plot, but then again neither did mine for this LC.
In retrospect...you kind of did make the right decision in killing off Marcus. I honestly was hoping for Ael's Kobayashi Maru, and maybe even Ael going to town on Huntington.
Marcus, IMHO, suffers from Superman Syndrome, which I consciously try to avoid with my characters. Basically, a powerful character who is always moral and just, and even when xe breaks societal traditions is generally shown as doing it for "good" reasons...gets boring.
We KNOW that Superman will do the right thing, and will succeed. On the other hand, we KNOW that Ael will do the right thing, but we DON'T know that she will succeed. With Three, OTOH, she will almost certainly succeed on any mission, but she's a complete psychopath who kills people for fun.
Basically, Marcus, like Superman, is a bit of a trump card. A known factor, who will ALWAYS do the right thing and pretty much always will succeed. Not a bad thing in small doses, but building a running series out of the character is very hard.
Short version: I prefer Ael. She's badass, but doesn't have both massive superpowers and perfect morality.
I hope you take no offense at this; as usual, I love your writing. Just...I prefer Ael.
No offence taken at all, because you understand exactly why Marcus had to be killed off*. However, I find it amusing that you make the Superman comparison with regard his morality, because as mentioned, not just within this entry, but in your comment the other day, you quite rightly pointed out, that Marcus' morality, is anything but perfect...
*While his body is dead (inactive might be a more accurate term) his consciousness is locked in the body of his MU counterpart who, to use the expression, makes Three look like a nun, and he simply has to endure it
[Edit to add]The outcome in this piece was equally somewhat pre-determined, as from the intro (and his bio) these were events I'd long known about, rather than channelling specifically for this LC, it was simply a matter of putting them down, hence the lack of plot twists etc
When I say that Marcus has Superman-style morality, I mean that he's pretty much universally treated as doing the right thing, and even when he does something not within traditional moral or ethical rules it's treated as morally right among the major protagonists.
Basically...even when he screws his sister, people treat it like it's OK. Especially people who are meant to be protagonists, like T'Reya (not a perfect example as she too has romantic entanglements with Marcus, but still...).
Also, I really think that Darien Kane should make an appearance again soon. Heh. He and Three would probably get along juuuust fine. Which is creepy.
Gonna have to disagree with you slightly there, as most of the other protagonists, Cooper, Dougherty, Cheliss, Janeway, Alyosha, etc, all expressed distaste at his personal life, but indeed, he did get given a pass as a competent and fair officer. T'Reya, on the other hand, due to the mind-melds, actually knew what he knew and felt what he felt, so she was in the unique position of being able to understand, and then simply not judging, because she's nice like that
You never know, when the MU is next mentioned, he might indeed, and yeah, Three would likely be his personal bodyguard
--Yes, I think you did quite well there. And it was a better treatment of the character than just having him get lol facerolled by a terminally ill Son'a...
--Point. But we can discount Janeway because she needs serious therapy.
Like I said, T'Reya isn't the best example. I will say, though, that the part that really creeped me out was when he met S'rR's and it read to me that he basically saw her as a copy of his recently-deceased wife. THAT was creepy. Little Siri was creepy in general, too.
Basically, Marcus's lack of meaningful consequences reminds me a lot of how nobody ever really called the Avengers out for being titanic jerks during this story arc. Not as bad, obviously; he didn't actually stand by and let someone get hurt like that, but he DID do some extremely socially unacceptable things and got off light.
I prefer Ael; as I said before, someone can be God Mode OR a good person. The Sisko being the exception because Avery Brooks and because his god mode comes with enough of a price that they can only be used sparingly.
--Alriiiiiiight!!! So, do you think Mirror Three should be the nicest little living superweapon ever, or a complete sadistic monster without any control whatsoever?
I think nicest little thing ever - just for weird factor. :P
I wonder how Three would respond to that?
Heh, knowing Three, she'd probably sleep with her anyway! :P
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Even a broken watch is right twice a day
Oh dear, that wasn't how that scene should have read... It was meant to establish by description, that she was (effectively) a clone of K'm'rn, not him thinking "Mmm, jail-bait... Imma get me some of that.." >_<
Of course she was ^_^ Creepy Child Trope is not much use if said child is not creepy
That's Plot Necessity for you, but also, why I felt he had to go. I just felt his 'taking command' story would be more interesting than Ael's (which has already been posted over a few entries) or her reasons for joining Starfleet, which as Ryan said, 'boring and generic'
That's an interesting point... MU Marcus was (even more) f**ked up because he hadn't had therapy after his mother's death because his family never moved to Vulcan. MU Vic Fontaine was not a hologram... Thinking about it, MU 'Three' would likely closer to Original's 'original' personality... She'd probably be the one standing outside Darien's arms factory protesting
--Yeah, you have a good point there; but Dougherty did have a similar voice in this piece, and you really did the character justice IMHO.
--Yeah. I think Janeway did the right thing once or twice...
--Nah, it came off to me as more "guy who's just lost his dearly-beloved wife sees a very close look-alike". Still creepy, but not really at the same level.
--Exactly. ^_^
--Yeah, I try to avoid Plot Necessity. It can...cause issues.
Maybe try Palmer? She was a wild child, she certainly might have a good story in there.
--Hoo boy. I think you're right.
Just trying to imagine Mirror Three as a superpowered vigilante activist...
Three in a Batman outfit...
Wow, that was weird. And slightly creepy.
To be fair, she did... I was just meaning that where you've said Marcus got a pass on his behaviour (again, plot necessity dictated that accommodations had to be made to keep him a viable character) he was, maybe not openly despised, but certainly not universally popular amongst his peers...
Damn, because that wasn't how the scene was supposed to read >_< (not worth revising it now though)
Yeah, realistically, I should have killed him off years ago, but had wanted to use him and his crew for gameplay, but then the 30 year time jump threw me... Arguably, his life would have been much happier had he stayed on Vulcan teaching the harp to the kids... (Might've allowed him to try and kick Scolak's TRIBBLE too, because as shown, whatever he decided to do, T'Reya had already decided to move on with her life...)
Actually, she wasn't... She was a perfect student till she started getting bored after her midshipman cruise and started acting like a TRIBBLE, which immediately stopped when Marcus put her in a position of responsibility... Also means she never actually took the Kobyashi Maru (not everyone took it. Spock didn't) just final exams with the rest of her academic class. I've a few ideas percolating, so I'll see who steps up to the plate for that... :cool:
Yeah, no need for that :P
Yeah, I kinda ran afoul of that with the backstory to The Wrong Reflection. It's in-character for Eleya to not put up with BS like what was going on at Tuvok's conference (whitewashing Klingon war crimes, D'Tan overextending his resources, and who the frak invited that Ferengi?), but realistically it's going to cause a diplomatic incident if she does anything about it.
My solution was to have her cause the incident, then make her a Bunny-Ears Lawyer: she's not a great diplomat but she's a good combat CO, and after the battles at Earth and Qo'noS Starfleet needs everyone on deck. So she gets lightly punished (possibly more lightly than was intended, given she wasn't interested in an admiral's flag anyway) and sent back to a combat post. Doesn't hurt that thanks to Cryptic's backstory there's a Bajoran in the Cabinet (Shad Ona) who I wrote as backing her up offscreen.
It's not without precedent: Starfleet needing every competent combat CO they could get is about the only explanation I can think of for Solok.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
One: Marcus Kane of old has a lot to do with Alyosha having a career after Starfleet was done using him for Dominion War purposes, and being able to move into his true field (science). Kane also worked one end of the transfer to the 77th Fleet when the time came--a move that I *know* for sure occurred because the top science position aboard the Endeavor would not be vacated (whereas the 77th was one of the options with a billet available right away and amenable fleet and ship CO's)...but that may also have occurred, depending on timing, to remove Alyosha from a situation that was clearly causing him discomfort. See, Alyosha did not believe the first set of allegations against Kane--he thought it was jealousy over Kane's immortality leading to a disgusting rumor. He defended Kane against those accusations, and Kane knew this and allowed him to do it since it benefitted him. When things got hot and steamy with Siri, Alyosha was not only disgusted by a situation he sees as extremely inappropriate, but felt betrayed by Kane's abuse of his trust.
Two: Alyosha considers Kane's actions to be a moral violation on a combination of religious grounds and the fact that he believes Kane's being Siri's father, and Siri's sexual imprinting at an early age, means that insufficient grounds for consent exist. That said...he is not as vocal as some might be, because Alyosha is biologically unable to desire humanoids, and psychologically and emotionally unable to desire his own species. Having never experienced any such feelings, for himself, he is a bit reluctant to be *too* loud in his feelings on those subjects (though you can bet if anything nonconsensual or constituting abuse of power for sexual purposes takes place in his purview, he will take serious action in it).
Between his gratitude towards Marcus as he once was, and his (literal) ignorance of sexual drives, though, that is why he goes the route of refusing to volunteer information from certain time framed, and still at least invited Kane to his pinning-on ceremony as captain (which Kane likely declined to spare Alyosha the awkwardness). But that's why he doesn't just outright flame Marcus even after Marcus' passing.
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