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Forums > Home› Star Trek Online General Discussion

Crafting Design: Why are you crafting?

zerninzernin Member Posts: 8 Arc User
edited July 2014 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
So we've had a couple days with the crafting system now, and it's become pretty clear that the action of crafting is pretty much a bad idea. Let's do the math.

20 hour missions grant you 300 XP/hr.

Mk. II equipment gives 50 xp for 5 minutes. If you could perfectly restart these every 5 minutes that would be 600 XP/hr.

Mk. X equipment, the last level you can craft without spending dil, is 1,800 for 3 hours. Still 600 XP/hr.

Mk. XII equipment gives 3000 xp for 5 hours. That is, yet again, 600 XP/hr.

So crafting gives you double the XP of a non-crafting activity. On the surface, that seems like a good idea, but that ignores a few truths of life. Humans sleep, and every activity we do has an opportunity cost. To get that double xp gain rate, you need materials.

For the low mark equipment, these are pretty easy to gather but that means you are spending a ridiculous amount of time starting craft actions over and over and over. This is not a fun activity, and getting it efficient enough to actually hit that 600 xp/hr rate is pretty much impossible.

For the high mark equipment, gathering the materials is not a trivial task. Its going to take a significant amount of time where you could be focusing on something else. The opportunity cost here is huge, and the benefit is almost non-existent.

Once you throw sleep in to the mix, the 20 hour mission is the only reasonable task for someone with a job and without insomnia.

I would really like to see some modifications to the higher crafting ranks to make crafting and appealing part of the crafting system. Higher rank items need to provide more XP/hr to make crafting appealing at all. It would probably be wise to tie the efficiency of said increase to the crafting level of the player so that the right answer doesn't just become to only craft MK X or MK XII equipment.

Oh, and removing the 20 hour mission or making it worse is not the way to make the other options more appealing. The appeal of the whole system is so dreadfully low right now that such an action would just be the nail in the coffin.
Post edited by zernin on
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Comments

  • chrishellmax2363chrishellmax2363 Member Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Really hope you guys are not going to kill this with omg. It takes so much time threads. I ran two setao twenty hour beams just after a few hours of efts and tau dewa patrols. So this is on par with the tier system reps. Do it if you want. Like anything else the rewards are not why I do it. Its for the fun of doing it. Besides most of my ships have excellent gear already. This is for the fact that my fleet cillects and I craft for them. And. Its not bound items so you only really need to level one char and transfer the gear.
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  • johngazmanjohngazman Member Posts: 2,826 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    In other words, it's a Reputation system by another name. The nice difference - that had better not get changed - is that once you open up additional slots, you can run one or more 20hr project simultainiously.

    As for why i'm crafting - for cheap, top-end beam arrays, naturally. What disappoints me is the lack of variety. Top-end, there's only one item per school, and some items that could have been added in (because there aren't any other way of acquiring them, for example) have been overlooked - non C-Store energy-type quad cannons, for example (Tetryon, Polaron and Antiproton) and additional variants of the Piercing Tetryon, Retrofit Phaser, Chroniton and Dominion Polaron weapons could also have been included.
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  • hyplhypl Member Posts: 3,719 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Why I'm crafting?

    Nothing else better to do. Thanks Cryptic. :rolleyes:
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  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    To answer the Q in the subject line, I am using it because I want to be able to make Field Generator shield consoles. Those arent available anywhere except in the crafting system and on the exchange (soon to be for massive EC cost). The sooner I start, the sooner I can make my own again.

    I'm not interested in the other schools, since the weapons and stuff are randomized mods, and I'm not interested in dilithium lottery that is designed to benefit the house.
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  • dirlettiadirlettia Member Posts: 1,632 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Why am I crafting sense of achievement in that I have done something. Won't likely use it to actually craft anything useful though.
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  • binebanebinebane Member Posts: 557 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    johngazman wrote: »
    In other words, it's a Reputation system by another name. The nice difference - that had better not get changed - is that once you open up additional slots, you can run one or more 20hr project simultainiously.

    As for why i'm crafting - for cheap, top-end beam arrays, naturally. What disappoints me is the lack of variety. Top-end, there's only one item per school, and some items that could have been added in (because there aren't any other way of acquiring them, for example) have been overlooked - non C-Store energy-type quad cannons, for example (Tetryon, Polaron and Antiproton) and additional variants of the Piercing Tetryon, Retrofit Phaser, Chroniton and Dominion Polaron weapons could also have been included.
    probably they will add more. like they add fleet things they may add new schools. there was some speculation about kit school. or kits will just be on existing schools. more craftable equptment... defara crafitng is seperated. and some other things. maybe craftable ships... who knows.
  • jagdhippiesjagdhippies Member Posts: 676 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    All that they ever really needed to do is to double the XP reward for the 20 hour missions. That would take the time it takes a player to hit max rank in the system down to what, 1.5 - 2 months. That is basically the same as running through a new rep for the first time. That seems very appropriate to me.

    But as it is now, 3-4 months to reach max rank after which I will have to gamble my dilithium
    away with very weak odds that I will get exactly what I want, I just do not feel like it. I don't see the benefit. At least the reps, while they have very little to nothing else to offer me personally, come with a big bag of dilithium at the end. This system has nothing to offer me at the end of the road. I see no reason to waste my time with it.
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    zernin wrote: »
    So we've had a couple days with the crafting system now, and it's become pretty clear that the action of crafting is pretty much a bad idea.

    That's not what I've gotten out of it. What I've mainly gotten out of it would involve comments about fellow posters on the forums that would lead to moderator intervention if I were to share my thoughts on those particular individuals...

    No doubt, folks are going to be of differing opinions on things...so it should not be a case of attacking the person for their opinion, but it's damn hard not to laugh while doing a /facepalm at some of the TRIBBLE being said. Oh noes, I no get to have shinies instantly...doom! C'mon...
  • coupaholiccoupaholic Member Posts: 2,188 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Not sure I'll get into it myself. I think I'll stick to selling the materials I find for start up capital on my new toon and just hope the exchange is bursting with new gear once I hit level cap and just grab what I need from there.
  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    As of right now, every crafting slot you unlock will let you slot another 20 hr assignment.

    Get to 2nd level, and you can do 2 20 hr assignments. Can be in the same school or not.

    Get to 4th level and you can do 3 20 hr assignments.

    Get to 15th level or 5th level in three schools, and you can do 4 20 hr assignments.

    Unlock all of them and you can do 5 20 hr assignments at a time for 30,000 xp or 1500 xp/hr.

    Granted, not necessarily practical at higher levels, but unlocking 3 slots pretty quickly seems doable.

    I'm not certain, but I believe crafting Mk X items will be viable at level 5. So I'm of the opinion that it will be worth doing.
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  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    ursusmorologus wrote: »
    To answer the Q in the subject line, I am using it because I want to be able to make Field Generator shield consoles. Those arent available anywhere except in the crafting system and on the exchange (soon to be for massive EC cost). The sooner I start, the sooner I can make my own again.

    I'm not interested in the other schools, since the weapons and stuff are randomized mods, and I'm not interested in dilithium lottery that is designed to benefit the house.

    This is pretty much my answer as well. Even if I only make a blue 12 that is currently 7-8 mil. If I manage a purple it is well over 30 million ec. I am not rich.

    I also want the 360 degree beam.
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  • capemike4capemike4 Member Posts: 394 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I'm just crafting because I -can-...; it's something else to do, and the new system makes a lot more sense(to me) than the old one did...my end-goal is the updated Aegis set, so I can boost the defensive performance of my Fleet Nebula Retrofit...anything I gain along the way? Either pure profit or nice items for any future alts I make.... :D

    Either way, I come out ahead!
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  • bareelbareel Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I slot the 20hr missions. Then ignore it. I merely want the traits and to begin progressing through the time gate just in case something interesting is added in later on.

    As for the new shineys, i'll buy them off the exchange if I really want them but I already have sooo much stuff I'm not overly concerned about a potential .1% performance increase.

    Beyond that it might serve as a decent method to trade purple rock for EC via the components but we shall see.
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  • indypenguinindypenguin Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Most of my ship, character, and BOFF gear has come from the missions, reputation, fleet spire/dilithium mine, and some EC purchases on the exchange.

    I am trying to figure out the new system. I think for now, I will level it up on the characters I play most. This is more so to ensure I'd not behind should some new equipment gets released that is either only accessible via crafting or if allowed, rather costly on the EC side via the exchange.
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  • johngazmanjohngazman Member Posts: 2,826 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    bareel wrote: »
    As for the new shineys, i'll buy them off the exchange if I really want them

    Given that the new Aegis set (I think) and the Rank 15 items (360-beam, Wide-Arc cannons, TR-116 etc) are bind on pickup - no, you won't. Everything else in the Crafting System is standard fare stuff you might get from loot drops.
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  • paperclipriderpapercliprider Member Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Mr. Rivera just stated that crafting will become a much more important part of the game so we have to start or go to STO-hell
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  • kaiserkactokaiserkacto Member Posts: 482 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    At this moment I'm not crafting anyting, just running the 20 hours projects and collecting materials.

    Once I reach level 15 I might start crafting, but only if I'm on the mood of course.

    So yes, It's just reputation by another name
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  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    First I'm always wiling to give something new a try. To see if I like it or not. I got plenty of mats stored up so why not use them. At least a few rounds to see what it looks like. Usually in games that offer crafting I usually do them as I like doing them. Cause it gives me gear and make profit as well.

    Its not for everyone. Just like other features in any game. Some will enjoy some won't.
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    johngazman wrote: »
    Given that the new Aegis set (I think) and the Rank 15 items (360-beam, Wide-Arc cannons, TR-116 etc) are bind on pickup - no, you won't. Everything else in the Crafting System is standard fare stuff you might get from loot drops.

    They're not Bind on Pickup. They're Account Bind on Equip.
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,462 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I craft to stock the power cells for my jem Hadar gun. In addition the TR-116 sniper and the emission torpedo look like items i can use in various builds.
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  • saedeithsaedeith Member Posts: 628 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Assuming I can mail mats and gear between characters, I will only use one character for crafting as it is. Starting out without any mats is too much of a pita to even mess with.

    I was going to use the crafting system to gear my characters while leveling. Sadly, this looks like a waste of time as well.

    What would help out quite a bit is if they would add a breakdown system for breaking down gear, ect into mats.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,450 Community Moderator
    edited July 2014
    Why am I crafting?

    TR-116.
    :D
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  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,903 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    johngazman wrote: »
    In other words, it's a Reputation system by another name. The nice difference - that had better not get changed - is that once you open up additional slots, you can run one or more 20hr project simultainiously.

    As for why i'm crafting - for cheap, top-end beam arrays, naturally. What disappoints me is the lack of variety. Top-end, there's only one item per school, and some items that could have been added in (because there aren't any other way of acquiring them, for example) have been overlooked - non C-Store energy-type quad cannons, for example (Tetryon, Polaron and Antiproton) and additional variants of the Piercing Tetryon, Retrofit Phaser, Chroniton and Dominion Polaron weapons could also have been included.

    or the ability to craft a [CrtD]x3 if you want
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  • kazamiyukarinkazamiyukarin Member Posts: 158 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I like crafting. So I am crafting.
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  • firekeeperhufirekeeperhu Member Posts: 416 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Why am I craftin?

    I don't craft. I run daily assigments to keep the schools running. I intend to max them this way, and don't craft any single item. I don't want to waste my dil for this, if I want something I will buy it on ex.
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    RnD and upgrade needs less RNG. Less lottery. Something has to change.
  • johngazmanjohngazman Member Posts: 2,826 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    virusdancer wrote: »
    They're not Bind on Pickup. They're Account Bind on Equip.

    Just the Aegis stuff or all the Level 15 items?

    I can seem them leaving the Aegis set tradable but i'm surprised that the other top-level stuff is. Somewhat defeats the point of adding those unique items to crafting if it's not to entice people to actually use the new system.
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  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,358 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    zernin wrote: »
    20 hour missions grant you 300 XP/hr.

    It gives 6000 XP and uses 1 cheap mat to do. This mission is the only reason I'm bothering w/ crafting at all. I barely have time atm to log in once a day and get a few doff missions going. I sure as hell wasn't going to sit around while some 5 minute 10 XP crafting missions popped off. I don't really care if it's 300 XP per hour. I don't even have an hour of game time to play. I like the long mission w/ big payout. Helps us people that don't have hours to sit and start 50 separate missions every day.
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  • crm14916crm14916 Member Posts: 1,528 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I'm crafting for the omni-beam arrays...

    But I do have some questions that have probably been answered elsewhere, but I can't seem to find them...

    Is there a list of how much XP is required to reach each level?

    The loot from STFs, does it come as a box, with multiple materials in it?

    What are the 20hr projects everyone is talking about?

    Tons more questions, but I'm on my kindle and it sucks to type...

    CM
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  • binebanebinebane Member Posts: 557 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    firekeeperhu wrote: »
    Why am I craftin?

    I don't craft. I run daily assigments to keep the schools running. I intend to max them this way, and don't craft any single item. I don't want to waste my dil for this, if I want something I will buy it on ex.

    +1 but will start crafting special items on lvl 20... in a year or two...
  • jagdhippiesjagdhippies Member Posts: 676 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    vetteguy904 wrote: »
    or the ability to craft a [CrtD]x3 if you want

    With the gambling mechanic you could spend all of your dil and not get it, when you can get precisely what you want is when I will spend dilithium.
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