Don't disagree, but I think there's a distinction that should be pointed out between the exploration (I know), Crafting (I know again), Storyline mission playing, RPing, Foundry type PvEer and the min/max STF/Rep grinder. Since pretty much all types other than the STF/Rep grinding forms of PvE require so little, there's probably little interest in acquiring the Rep/STF gear.
Oh, you would be surprised. I know quite a few people that have goals like 'breaking 20k DPS in STFs' or 'doing an STF in the fewest time'. They are equipped and they min/max their builds like PvP'ers, but all they do is STFs and No Win.
Without PVP, there is no real reason to grind or join a fleet or go to the zen store (or any combination of these things) in order to get better gear. Elite STF's might be a distant second reason but being able to knock some condescending arrorgant little rooster off the fence, even if just once in awhile, is, to me, the best reason in the world to PVP.
The better your skills and ship and its equipment, boffs and doffs are, the more often you will be able to "flush" some little supercilious "TRIBBLE". That's what PVP is to me, gratifying my enormous ego but squashing someone else's enormous ego, but, hey, they started it :- )
If my team gets to 15 points before the other team does so much the better but it's all about "smashing the smug" for me.
Oh, you would be surprised. I know quite a few people that have goals like 'breaking 20k DPS in STFs' or 'doing an STF in the fewest time'. They are equipped and they min/max their builds like PvP'ers, but all they do is STFs and No Win.
To make it clear I was pointing out there are 2 general different types of PvEers, the Min/Maxers "the min/max STF/Rep grinder" and the others " the exploration (I know), Crafting (I know again), Storyline mission playing, RPing, Foundry type PvEer".
It's my opinion if you added the Min/Maxers and PvPers together they'd still be outnumber by the " the exploration (I know), Crafting (I know again), Storyline mission playing, RPing, Foundry type PvEer". This is why I agreed w/Drunk generally speaking.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
lot of games out there are very approachable for fresh players
lot of games out there are like that, where the pvp is so mindless and so limited in customization, its all about just logging in, grabbing up your controller and a way you go
99% of the fps are that way, many of the rts are that way, etc
everything that is in a lockbox or on the c-store or in the lobi store can be gotten in game without spending a penny of your real world money
many would point out that it would take a lot of knowledge on how to drum up ec in game to get said items and time but, the fact is- anyone can do it
as of right out of the game pvping, that's in the game as well, you CAN cue up and learn, get kills, have fun
if your looking to totally DOMINATE top pvpers with a free ship and mark 10 gear with only a week of experience in the game- ya that probably wont happen, and thank god the game is not set up that way, that it is complex, that there are combos, that teamwork does matter- because if all of that didn't matter- all you would have would be nothing different then call of duty
perhaps that's what p2winsucks wants for star trek online- it to be some silly Star Trek DAC or Star Trek Legacy game where everyone just zips around on totally equal ground with zero difference in builds and the only thing that separates people from each other is luck and skill
I personally love the rock, paper, scissor element to sto pvp, as well as the build element to sto pvp
just because someone bought the new shinny escort doesn't mean they know how to build it right or gear it right
and its nice that some of that gear is not just gotten in 5 minutes for 100 ec LOL
I never saw sto pvp as pay 2 win even tho you got a bunch of unhappy players chanting it after every time they lose a match, its even better when the chanting comes from folks flying lockbox ships or c-store ships!
why is it bug ships pop all the time? why is it wells and palisades pop all the time? you would think that since these things are pay 2 win... why didn't they win? LIKE ALWAYS, isn't that the definition of pay to win?
anyone that has these ships and many of the other 3 part sets from lobi stores or c-store ship consoles will flat out tell ya- its not pay 2 win because they DO DIE and they DO LOSE
people that complain about pay 2 win are basically complaining about those that out flew them in pvp, that worked better with their team in pvp, and that had a great builds for the ships they flew
people that complain about pay 2 win are also those that probably don't like changing... like anything.. on their ship- long time ago their build worked great and now that its been like TWO YEARS they are angry because their ship doesn't win as much as it use to
because players created new tactics, used new equipment in different ways, built new and different teams then what was flying 2 years ago and these guys that complain about pay2win JUST DONT WANT to have anything to do with changing, changing their ship, changing their build, changing their strategy, NOTHING
they just want to log in and win all the time in pvp without having to think about anything, work for anything, or work with anyone else to win
anyone that complains about pay 2 win uses the p2win as an excuse for their own lack of skill, skill in building a ship and skill in working with a team
final thought, excellent pvpers can take a pile of free ships with junk gear and BUILD a team that can be a challenging to fight in pvp
I don't think that an excellent PVPER (as in single) can take a free ship with junk gear and beat everyone in the cues with it- without teamwork, without synergy, without a solid ship that has a solid boff layout/console layout its highly doubtful
1v1s ya ok, pug team vs pug team ya ok maybe, but ya some guy wants to be able to take some ship off the free rack and cue up against premade teams and walkout smelling like roses probably wont happen-- even tho there are seriously people online that have played this game for years that think you should be able to do just that LOL
"if your looking to totally DOMINATE top pvpers with a free ship and mark 10 gear with only a week of experience in the game- ya that probably wont happen, and thank god the game is not set up that way, that it is complex, that there are combos, that teamwork does matter- because if all of that didn't matter"
Those aren't mutually exclusive. It's a false choice to say power creep means more teamwork and more options than a balanced game w/multiple choices w/strength and weaknesses eg EvE model.
"I personally love the rock, paper, scissor element to sto pvp, as well as the build element to sto pvp"
There was more rock, paper, scissors design to the game's pre-Heretic departure than the power creep escalation after and w/o the grind. Try again ...
"1v1s ya ok, pug team vs pug team ya ok maybe, but ya some guy wants to be able to take some ship off the free rack and cue up against premade teams and walkout smelling like roses probably wont happen-- even tho there are seriously people online that have played this game for years that think you should be able to do just that LOL"
Another strawman that has nothing to do w/the topic based on false assumptions.
"people that complain about pay 2 win are basically complaining about those that out flew them in pvp, that worked better with their team in pvp, and that had a great builds for the ships they flew"
Or they're like me an would prefer much less grind w/designers who know what balance means and have the freedom to strive for it.
"final thought, excellent pvpers can take a pile of free ships with junk gear and BUILD a team that can be a challenging to fight in pvp"
A team w/free ships and commons would be trashed vs a team w/rep gear, rep traits, high end doffs, fleet gear, Fleet/Lotto Box/Lotto Box Customer rewards ships. Try keeping apples to apples.
Further, you've still ignored/danced around/BS'd/Made Up TRIBBLE to get around the time/$ it takes to build up a and gear a toon to be nearly as capable. Which was the initial point. The power creep issue has other points besides the time/$ gating. But, this was focused on new players to PvP and how much time/$ they'll need to catch up and be on a fairly even level.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Comments
Oh, you would be surprised. I know quite a few people that have goals like 'breaking 20k DPS in STFs' or 'doing an STF in the fewest time'. They are equipped and they min/max their builds like PvP'ers, but all they do is STFs and No Win.
The better your skills and ship and its equipment, boffs and doffs are, the more often you will be able to "flush" some little supercilious "TRIBBLE". That's what PVP is to me, gratifying my enormous ego but squashing someone else's enormous ego, but, hey, they started it :- )
If my team gets to 15 points before the other team does so much the better but it's all about "smashing the smug" for me.
To make it clear I was pointing out there are 2 general different types of PvEers, the Min/Maxers "the min/max STF/Rep grinder" and the others " the exploration (I know), Crafting (I know again), Storyline mission playing, RPing, Foundry type PvEer".
It's my opinion if you added the Min/Maxers and PvPers together they'd still be outnumber by the " the exploration (I know), Crafting (I know again), Storyline mission playing, RPing, Foundry type PvEer". This is why I agreed w/Drunk generally speaking.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Not probably we are the best. We punish the feds... We are the real Klingon empire in this game. :cool:
But I always share my builds with people that want to learn.
"if your looking to totally DOMINATE top pvpers with a free ship and mark 10 gear with only a week of experience in the game- ya that probably wont happen, and thank god the game is not set up that way, that it is complex, that there are combos, that teamwork does matter- because if all of that didn't matter"
Those aren't mutually exclusive. It's a false choice to say power creep means more teamwork and more options than a balanced game w/multiple choices w/strength and weaknesses eg EvE model.
"I personally love the rock, paper, scissor element to sto pvp, as well as the build element to sto pvp"
There was more rock, paper, scissors design to the game's pre-Heretic departure than the power creep escalation after and w/o the grind. Try again ...
"1v1s ya ok, pug team vs pug team ya ok maybe, but ya some guy wants to be able to take some ship off the free rack and cue up against premade teams and walkout smelling like roses probably wont happen-- even tho there are seriously people online that have played this game for years that think you should be able to do just that LOL"
Another strawman that has nothing to do w/the topic based on false assumptions.
"people that complain about pay 2 win are basically complaining about those that out flew them in pvp, that worked better with their team in pvp, and that had a great builds for the ships they flew"
Or they're like me an would prefer much less grind w/designers who know what balance means and have the freedom to strive for it.
"final thought, excellent pvpers can take a pile of free ships with junk gear and BUILD a team that can be a challenging to fight in pvp"
A team w/free ships and commons would be trashed vs a team w/rep gear, rep traits, high end doffs, fleet gear, Fleet/Lotto Box/Lotto Box Customer rewards ships. Try keeping apples to apples.
Further, you've still ignored/danced around/BS'd/Made Up TRIBBLE to get around the time/$ it takes to build up a and gear a toon to be nearly as capable. Which was the initial point. The power creep issue has other points besides the time/$ gating. But, this was focused on new players to PvP and how much time/$ they'll need to catch up and be on a fairly even level.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
thats becasue we are in kerrat!!! les wait time and moar pew pew .....oh and all hail CHEESUS!