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A real review of pvp...
dahminus
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
STO pvp has a reputation for being "broken," "unfun," and just the "worst thing about star trek since Neelix."
These opinions keep popping up like bad weeds. Why? Is the general consensus that PvP is very much like the above? NO...the problem is that these "fair weather flyers" get upset that they bring what "they" consider good gear and good ships into pvp, and get instantly blown out of the sky.
News flash...PvP; unlike PvE, is extremely gear dependent. If you don't play video games, specially RPGs (role playing games...just like how this is a mmorpg), let me break this down for you....you don't go killing the final boss of the game with the rags and stick swords given to you at the start of the game.
Pvp is nothing compared to the doldrums of PvE. It's action packed, it's addicting, it's fast pace, it's a battle of wits. Two expert pilots dog fighting is a thing of epic proportions...speeds of 200 impulse, turn rates of excess 100 degrees.
This is not a place for people who can't fathom they are wrong and that they have nothing to learn from their peers. It's an ever evolving game of cat and mouse. And he who is the cat knows teamwork is where it's at.
My final comments...
If you ever want to pvp, please...PLEASE ask for help from the amazing chaps on the forums, the pvp posters are always hoping for new serious blood in the queues and they have many pointers to share.
Also, expect that hyper competitive builds take super expensive components to make happen. One may think that this is a deterrence...but the fact of the matter is that PvP is STO's end game. You take bits from each new season and you incorporate it into your build...each new season is a new tier to complete. failure to complete several tiers will put you at a disadvantage.
And the most important thing, proper PvP is like combat flight simulator game on crack. Easily the most fun to have in sto. It is just a s and m TRIBBLE that expects you to be prepared and will bend you over backwards if you are not
Cheers and happy hunting
These opinions keep popping up like bad weeds. Why? Is the general consensus that PvP is very much like the above? NO...the problem is that these "fair weather flyers" get upset that they bring what "they" consider good gear and good ships into pvp, and get instantly blown out of the sky.
News flash...PvP; unlike PvE, is extremely gear dependent. If you don't play video games, specially RPGs (role playing games...just like how this is a mmorpg), let me break this down for you....you don't go killing the final boss of the game with the rags and stick swords given to you at the start of the game.
Pvp is nothing compared to the doldrums of PvE. It's action packed, it's addicting, it's fast pace, it's a battle of wits. Two expert pilots dog fighting is a thing of epic proportions...speeds of 200 impulse, turn rates of excess 100 degrees.
This is not a place for people who can't fathom they are wrong and that they have nothing to learn from their peers. It's an ever evolving game of cat and mouse. And he who is the cat knows teamwork is where it's at.
My final comments...
If you ever want to pvp, please...PLEASE ask for help from the amazing chaps on the forums, the pvp posters are always hoping for new serious blood in the queues and they have many pointers to share.
Also, expect that hyper competitive builds take super expensive components to make happen. One may think that this is a deterrence...but the fact of the matter is that PvP is STO's end game. You take bits from each new season and you incorporate it into your build...each new season is a new tier to complete. failure to complete several tiers will put you at a disadvantage.
And the most important thing, proper PvP is like combat flight simulator game on crack. Easily the most fun to have in sto. It is just a s and m TRIBBLE that expects you to be prepared and will bend you over backwards if you are not
Cheers and happy hunting
Post edited by dahminus on
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Comments
Second rule of PVP is you're going to die again.
Once you accept that fact and check your humility at the door, you can start learning :cool:
Being a new PVPer is always a kick in the nuts in any game you go to, esp. when you jump into a title where the players are already well established. You're going to get schooled, bad. Only thing you can do is keep fighting, get blown up, learn, refine your build, fight again, get blown up, learn, refine, and so on
It was through PVP that I learned to try to dig into the mechanics more, try odd things that I never would have tried anywhere else. All in an effort to try to win, fight better, or possibly fight from a style that others may not be used to seeing. PVP forces you to learn the game a lot more due to the competitive nature. Sometimes the experiment works out good. Sometimes it's a dismal failure.
The main thing about PVP is that it was dynamic every match. You may recognize some names as regulars and can have a rough idea how good they are. You can run into guys you have no idea how good they are. Some guys are pretty terrible. Some guys are pretty decent. Some guys are good. Some guys will wipe the floor with you and you're wondering how you got there.
This is far more variable gameplay than the stale NPCs that just sit there letting you shoot them up. That barely do any abilities, if at all. Far more variable gameplay where the only way the NPCs kill you is with pure cheese (Invisitorp Of Doom) or sheer hull & shieldpoints.
Shooting at something that just sits there with 1 million or so hitpoints isn't exactly "gameplay," IMO. But trying to kill something that has a mind of its own is an entirely different thing.
First one has been touched on, the gear requirements. I browse through the PvP sub-forum a bit every now and then and most posts appear to be about certain groups leaning on the latest crutch or OP toy.
I do see every now and then tournaments that have strict gear requirements, aim to strip out the cheese and even the field so to speak - which is a good idea, perhaps this should be a more standardised entry level thing for people wanting to give PvP a go?
I guess my only other problem is not really anyone's fault, it's just the way STO has been built. The lack of variety. Certain builds are head and shoulders above others and no real room for experimentation. This links to my first point, certain tools that compliment certain builds would attract all the attention - other ideas are left behind.
That's pretty much it. I don't mind the attitude of the PvP community myself - I frequented Ker'rat back in the day quite a lot and it can be pretty entertaining, competitive rubbish just comes with the territory.
Of course I don't mind getting blown up many times as well, I do think people are too protective of their space pixels sometimes.
never mind exploits like folks getting infinite deuterium charges from alhena, which allows them to spam that thing like no tomorrow and always escape getting popped(or chasing those who don't).
also cryptic adding a billion OP doffs/ships/gear all the time, which pretty much removes 90% of the playerbase as potential PvPers.
also the clear imbalance in regards to some ships(generally the most used), in essence, unless you happen to be VERY rich, willing to put up with all that, there isn't much point in PvPing, is it really surprising most don't? are PvPers running out of poor chaps in mirror star cruisers to blow up lol?
And he that paid attention in school knows that cats are solitary hunters.
One hundred degrees isn't a rate. It's a scalar quantity. One hundred degrees per <unit of time> is a rate. One would think that PvPers would value precision, wouldn't one?
For which some people apparently show up unarmed--present company excepted, naturally.
The fact of the matter is that statements to that effect are one person's opinion.
Here is my opinion: PVP is the antithesis of Star Trek canon, Star Trek history, and what Gene Roddenberry intended Star Trek to be. It isn't that the mechanics of PvP in STO are broken--it's that the entire idea of PvP being in STO is broken. I can't be a rampant idealist in real life, but I'm comfortable being one here.
Sorry, no sale. Not buying. I'm not even browsing your shop of horrors. Good luck with your pointless little displays of aggression--they're adorable. I'll be over here in civilization if you need me.
to be fair, PvP makes perfect sense in canon... for klingon house fights, not much beyond that.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
btw it looks to me like only 2 matches can run at the same time. If that is true it really needs to be changed. Sitting around waiting for a game to start, especially when there are plenty of people in line is a killer.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
You like cake.
I hate cake. Especially when it lacks a certain 'fairness' quality. Any PvP without a quality match making system bores me with one extreme or the other.
So wait...every week for how many seasons for how many shows and through how many movies...did I just imagine all the fighting in Star Trek?
Real: [adjective specifically modified for biased forum use] A term meaning "according to my standards, which are carefully cherry-picked to support my severely biased opinion and give it a token facade of factuality that it could never achieve if forced to stand on its own extremely limited merits."
-standing ovation-
What if we're doing it with our PvE Hats on?
Three of my top moments/most fun in STO:
1) Fighting the early Elachi before they were nerfed a half dozen times.
2) Fighting the Borg after they were buffed after having been nerfed and before they were nerfed again.
3) Fighting the Voth when they were "bugged" and before they were "fixed" again.
You don't need to be a PvPer to /facepalm the PvE in this game...
Ya....hi, PvEr here. I took the time to gear for pvp and tried my hat in it. With proper builds and gear, it's the most fun I've had in the game.
Your right it's all opinion, a newb to pvp opinion.
What Jbmonroe is exactly what I'm talking about. He went into pvp with sub par gear and a sub par build and know he thinks pvp is a waste of time
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
What the OP suggested is that new pvp players just accept the high financial cost of acquiring top end gear but that they also suck it up and be cannon fodder for weeks or months. Does that sound particularly appealing to anyone? One of the big drawbacks to pvp in an f2p game (especially PW games) is that they offer pay to win stuff and in the end only a small hardcore of people who keep buying the newer, more powerful stuff keep playing. Jumping on that train after the pvp community has whittled itself into the most skilled and best equipped over 4 years is an exercise in madness.
The answer is leaderboards, skill matching services, and probably a form of pvp where everyone is in ships of equivalent level of gear and stats. Nothing less will give pvp'ers the scope of players they want.
because reputation gear is starting gear huh?
i think and thats what i have read alot about is that people are annoyed that they have to grind/pay their life off just to be "okay" at PvP... this is not about smartyness.... no.. its about you get the most expensive piece of gear and minmaxing your stuff...
i personally find PvP unfair due to the fact that people with loads of time or money wil be always on top list...PLUS in most games pvp is nto abotu what weapon / style / species you like most.. no instead of that its about whats the OP gear ingame...
wich is why i only liked PvP in FPS games (( without payshop or grind)).... thsi is pure skill and reaction based... instead of what we have in mmorpgs...
However, recently, due to the interest of some of our active fleet mates I've spent quite a bit of time in PvP using my PvE dps toons/ships. Fully expected to get spanked again because max dps PvE isn't necessarily ideal for PvP, and yes I get handed my TRIBBLE$ at times, but it's truly been an enjoyable experience.
For me the difference is two fold: (1) despite being PvE centric the build is ok for some non-serious PvP; and, (2) mucking about with my fleet friends regardless of match results is just good fun! Have also made some new friends both opponents and teammates in Kerrat and the queues.
For me, at least, PvP is a kind of end game. I mean there's still plenty to do and enjoy in PvE, but my main toons are more or less where I want them to be and so PvP introduces a welcomed and appreciated different venue that stretches my game in a completely different way. Is it better? No. Worse? No. But it IS different, very different, as you can imagine from reading all the PvP threads throughout the years. Sometimes I want chocolate chip swirl, other times mango sorbet. It's all good!
most definately that!
my personal vision would be PVE mixed with PVP...something tried, but utterly failed in kerrat.
Instead, imagine klingon scout force...one team trying to destroy the enemy starbase, while the other team tries to destroy their flagships and other "siege vehicles"
or
The Big Dig...2 Teams actually trying to be the first ontop.
or
a DOTA style lane war with "minions" pouring through 3 separate lanes, while 2 teams try to destroy controle towers and each other and finaly the enemy base.
yes, it is copying from other games, but hey, i can play LOL with Star Trek ships, i'd do it in a heart beat.
oh, and i nearly forgot it: Actual rewards...i could imagine a PVP faction, but participation should be more important than winning. Maybe 15 marks for losing, 30 for winning + once per day participation reward of 55.
Nothing to quit on bagging the PVE of this game when you know full well as I do that it's static. Absolutely nothing changes.
The behavior of the content is always, always, ALWAYS the same. The spheres come out always when you blow the Gens in ISE. The Raptors always come out at the same specific time in CSE. The remaining Gate in KASE always spits out more stuff when the other Gate goes down. The incoming waves in Fleet Alert are predictable and the only thing that varies is what NPC types come in.
The NPCs barely do anything. The only challenge from this game is NPCs having a mountainous scale of sheer hullpoints or built in cheese like Invisitorps.
The PVE in this game is absolutely predictible with vary little, if any at all variation, with TRIBBLE-poor NPCs who's only challenge is how they can get slapped around more than the next.
You see... both PVE & PVP suffer from some sort of "staleness." PVE being Faceroll Easy & Predictable. PVP not getting any dev attention. Literally. But PVP is more dynamic because of the people.
How people run the EXACT same PVE instances to infinity seeing the EXACT same courses of action by the NPCs, in the EXACT sequence of events, doing the EXACT same abilities, offering the EXACT same negligible challenge... and not go insane or bored to death is beyond me.
~ 4 year STO player and PVPer has spoken :rolleyes:
Nothing to be gained from the foundry other than farming :cool:
I think a lot of the people in this thread have far too much of an 'Us vs Them' mentality.
+1
/10chars
Vanilla Ground PvP information
But I'm in us and them...:cool:
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
And do you really remember Gene's Star Trek quite correctly here?
I remember a story where a Romulan Bird of Prey violated the Neutral Zone, and the Enterprise destroyed it in a battle of wits and weapons. I remember a space combat duel between Kirk and Khan. WOrds were exchanged, but they didn't solve their conflict.
In Star Trek PvP, two sides fight each other at a point where words will not solve the conflict, and the side that outwits the other is the one that prevails. It is a mix of teamwork vs competition.
No, Star Trek isn't about "let's solve all our problems with violence". But it is about people working together to overcome great challenges - and sometimes that challenge's nature is combat.
---
Of course, all that doesn't change that PvP is suffering from neglect and power creep everywhere.
There is no form of leaderboards (aside from player-run ones) or area control to create a sense of long-term motivation, it's all canned matches. Additions to PvP have been rare, and it actually lost an entire PvP map shortly after launch, never to be replaced. The additions that were at one point planned never made it into the game (say hi to Freighter Escort).
There was a time when it was actually not gear dependent. But as sets and special abilities from gear (like consoles) was added to the game, that slowly changed. You can argue it's still skill based, since all these tools are useless if you don't know how to use them, but it was already true that you needed skill before these tools were added. More over, some of these tools are great, others are not, meaning that choices are limited if you want to play effectively, lessening variety and a big part of what PvP makes so distinct from PVE - you never know what you get, you need to adapt to the enemy on the fly. But if you bring the "must-have" gear, and the nemy doesn't, you don't need to adapt, just decimate, and if the enemy brings the must haves, you know what to expect.
Then I realized your post was so full of nonsense that you were maybe just trolling or having a bit of a joke.
I admit there is a small chance that you think you are entirely correct and sensical.
I hope it was just a joke.