The whole Maquis concept was idiotic. Here are some colonies in Cardassian space, under Cardassian jurisdiction, that are launching attacks against the Caradassians. But because the populations were human and former Fed colonies, it becomes the Federation's responsibility to deal with them? (What were the Cardy authorities doing all this time exactly?) If the Feds assisted the colonies they were basically restarting a war with the Cardassians (and on behalf of people who didn't want to be a part of the Federation no less, that nonsensical "at least the Borg are honest" speech and such), and if they didn't assist they were evil misers ignoring the suffering of the innocent. I'm not entirely sure what the Maquis ever actually wanted, other than to kill Cardassians and whine a lot. It didn't make sense then, it'd make less sense now.
I agree entirely. That's why I'd prefer a 'new' Maquis to actually make more sense from a plot perspective, with only loose connotations to the previous organization.
That isn't genocide at all. He made the planet uninhabitable, then he placed a cardassian transport in peril to distract Sisko. You have no evidence that his actions there led to- or even intended to lead to- even one Cardassian death.
It didn't have to. Go look up the term "ethnic cleansing" on Wikipedia. Does it sound familiar? It should: It's one of the many war crimes committed during the wars in the Balkans in the 1990s.
I strongly doubt a future society's view on crimes against humanity (or I suppose I should call it "crimes against sapient life" in this context) would be any different than those of present day civilized humanity. Eddington fully deserved to spend the rest of his life rotting in a holding cell, because you do not intentionally target civilians unless you militarily have no other choice. And yes, that makes Sisko's actions in that episode just as unconscionable as Eddington's.
And you think the Klingons will fare better on that front than the Cardassians did?
The Maquis are the worst nightmare of a force like the Klingons.
You underestimate the Klingons and overestimate the Maquis. Forget their babble about honor and look at the actions: The Klingons can be just as sneaky and underhanded as the Cardassians. More so, in fact, precisely because they don't have a reputation for being sneaky TRIBBLE thanks to all the "honorable warrior" BS they spout. As for the Maquis? The Dominion utterly slaughtered them inside of a week. And with the Jenolan Accords the Klingons are no longer distracted by a full-scale war against the only other remaining first-tier polity* in local space (the Federation). Do the math.
* A term I've come up with for ranking the various governments in Star Trek. In the TNG era the first-tier powers of the Alpha/Beta Quadrant border region were the Feds, Klinks, and Romulans. The second-tier powers were folks like the Cardassians, Ferengi, Gorn, Breen, Tholians, and Tzenkethi. Tier 3 is little small multi-system powers like the Talarians. Tier 4 is roughly any single-system polity like the Acamarians or Bajorans. And for the record, the Romulan Republic is Tier 3, with delusions of being Tier 1 that the two actual Tier 1 powers haven't had the balls to disabuse them of yet.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
so bring back a group that was wipe out....... cant we idk maybe come up with something new something never saw in the show dont get me wrong i know this is Star Trek Online but i dont need every one of my bad guys to be one from show or movies to tell me this is sto
For instance, a plot regarding the Imperialists on Andoria could lead to more dev time revisiting that iceball.
A plot regarding Vulcans, or Orions -- Gorn, really... the possibilities are far greater than that, and if the biggest external threat is gone, the only logical step is the next biggest theat being from within the factions and governments.
While I don't really disagree with your idea in general (and I think we all wish that would do SOMETHING with Andoria), the idea of Imperialists in Andoria seems silly. The Andorian Empire has more or less not been around for 250 years. I doubt there are even any Andorians left who remember it, let alone would want to return to it.
Honestly I feel the same way about having Bajorans running around worried about the Federation being the next "Cardassian Occupation" at this point (which as always annoyed me about "Of Bajor"). The Federation has been hanging around Bajor for over 40 years. If they wanted to occupy the planet, what are they waiting for. :P
The whole Maquis concept was idiotic. Here are some colonies in Cardassian space, under Cardassian jurisdiction, that are launching attacks against the Caradassians. But because the populations were human and former Fed colonies, it becomes the Federation's responsibility to deal with them? (What were the Cardy authorities doing all this time exactly?) If the Feds assisted the colonies they were basically restarting a war with the Cardassians (and on behalf of people who didn't want to be a part of the Federation no less, that nonsensical "at least the Borg are honest" speech and such), and if they didn't assist they were evil misers ignoring the suffering of the innocent. I'm not entirely sure what the Maquis ever actually wanted, other than to kill Cardassians and whine a lot. It didn't make sense then, it'd make less sense now.
The Maquis wanted their homes Cardassian-free because the Cardassians treated them similarly as they had the Bajorans. And the Federation came into play because the Maquis were constantly crossing borders and getting supplies from Federation space. The alternative would have been to either allow Cardassian warships in Federation space or stomp the Cardassian's faces in for good to teach them a few things about basic human rights. The Federation really messed up, just like with the Treaty of Algeron. I blame synthehol.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Oh, please. Eddington was a genocidal jackass with delusions of grandeur.
eddington was cunning, dismissive, arrogant and from the looks of it not entirely focused however he was not a fool. he promoted the maquis line of thinking but the maquis main mandate was to get rid of the cardassians from the dmz and do as much political damage as possible to make their cause look sympathetic and their use of violence as well as they have proven blood thirsty when it happens. eddington's aim was to follow the line to a point and use of weapons on a planetary scale to force the cardassians off worlds once occupied by federation colonists. luckily the cardassian thinking was taken into account when the maquis setup and it took almost 4 years to exterminate the maquis due to dominion interference, but not completely eradicate them, some survived in a federation prison and the rest were on voyager lost the delta quadrant.
i doubt any of those maquis on the voyager had any feeling about starting another maquis up because of their time serving on the federation starship besides these other officers and those locked up in prison learned a hard lesson about doing what they did, it failed. why TRIBBLE up twice?
if a maquis type situation exploded on the klingon border, the klingons wouldnt have any issue exterminating the colony to put down a rebellion unlike the cardassians, cardassians like to have the upper hand in any dealings bmeaning they must be cautious as to how they deal with the problem but the klingons never cared too much about diplomacy. invasion troops or a direct bombardment. so that 3/4 of the point secured.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
The Klingons have a special place for dissidents, it's called Rura Pente
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
How is the Klingon Empire simply going to stomp out a loosely organized terrorist organization. Sure, they take out a settlement... and in the process indiscriminately kill thousands of others, which in turn enrages the ranks against the empire, then they ramp up their attacks, and turn more and more dissidents against them.
Eventually, the disdain spreads to within the Empire- hell, that's always festering- and you've got another Klingon civil war. They can't stop fighting each other long enough to develop a surgical strategy against a decentralized opponent.
It is the ideal enemy to face off against the Klingons. They're too reactionary, too ham-fisted and generally too blockheaded to fight such a fight.
How is the Klingon Empire simply going to stomp out a loosely organized terrorist organization. Sure, they take out a settlement... and in the process indiscriminately kill thousands of others, which in turn enrages the ranks against the empire, then they ramp up their attacks, and turn more and more dissidents against them.
Eventually, the disdain spreads to within the Empire- hell, that's always festering- and you've got another Klingon civil war. They can't stop fighting each other long enough to develop a surgical strategy against a decentralized opponent.
It is the ideal enemy to face off against the Klingons. They're too reactionary, too ham-fisted and generally too blockheaded to fight such a fight.
terrorists attacking the weak to try make a political point especially to a warrior to recognises the actions of these cowards attacking the helpless. no honor in it, as a result they should be shown no honor in return. your also forgetting klingons possess federation allies and their technology as well as klingon cloaking technology. these terrorists wouldnt stand a chance when they have to come up for air.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
How is the Klingon Empire simply going to stomp out a loosely organized terrorist organization. Sure, they take out a settlement... and in the process indiscriminately kill thousands of others, which in turn enrages the ranks against the empire, then they ramp up their attacks, and turn more and more dissidents against them.
Eventually, the disdain spreads to within the Empire- hell, that's always festering- and you've got another Klingon civil war. They can't stop fighting each other long enough to develop a surgical strategy against a decentralized opponent.
It is the ideal enemy to face off against the Klingons. They're too reactionary, too ham-fisted and generally too blockheaded to fight such a fight.
Would you wake up from your fanboi fantasy already. The Maquis gave the Cardies trouble because they were damn lucky, as I have previously shown. When their luck ran out, the entire "loosely organized terrorist organization" was utterly slaughtered by the Dominion inside of a week. The same Dominion that was simultaneously doing the following:
Overthrowing the Cardassian government to secure its foothold. Logically this would've included one or more pitched battles against Cardassian Guard forces loyal to the Detapa Council, who would've had various home field advantages.
We know for a fact they were also busy kicking half the Klingon Defense Force to the curb, because Gowron came running back to Deep Space 9 in "By Inferno's Light" to re-sign the Khitomer Accords.
And this was with one single battle group that included nothing bigger than a heavy cruiser, not the full force of the Dominion with JHDCs and so forth. Do you really think a Klingon Empire that has been on a war footing for three decades at this point can't marshal that kind of force, or stronger?
You also badly misjudge the Klingon psyche, as mirrorchaos noted.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I was just watching the DS9 episode Blaze of Glory, and it got me pining for some more solid Maquis stories. But since the original Maquis were killed off in the Dominion war, how about a new group of settlers and colonists who organize over a similar cause, this time, on the Klingon border.
The end of the KDF-Fed war is a great opportunity to introduce a rogue cell of former-Federation colonists who's worlds were ceded to the Klingon Empire in the midst of peace talks.
I know everything's got to revolve around the iconians, or 8472 or the silly Dinosaur people... whatever the big-bad of the season is... but I'd love to see some stories that get back to something much more organic, like the Maquis!
Well it's at least a concept that acknowledges that
A. The original marquis has been erased
B. the marquis is not existing just for its own sake like... Any empire essentially is, but a group with a mission... Which again has become obsolete with the end of the dominion war.
Still there are a few problems with that:
- I kind of doubt the federation repeats the same mistakes (although the cardassian treaty the caused the marquis in the first place was so stupid that it was hard to believe it happened the first time around)
- with a New Peace we'd probably get the old borders back and will not assign federation colonies to Klingon space (which is what happened with the cardassians)
- political correctness. Back then, when ds9 was made there was a lot if sympathy for a little "underdog freedom fighters fighting the evil empire" group called the Taliban. They were the template for the marquis and the bajorans. After 9/11... Let's just say that whole thing lost sympathies.
I don't think essentially a "playable terrorist faction" is a good idea these days.
- if as playable faction.... How is a playable faction only using shuttles and fighters supposed to work in sto?
I don't know about a joint storyline, but fighting an insurgency does sound like a good basis for new Klingon episodes.
I don't think it works to make a new Maquis, there was no territory exchange, but we've already seen the Gorn separatists at least, and the Klingons have just had an Imperialist surge. It'd be interesting to have some trouble there with an elusive enemy they can't pin down and crush, and it'd be a workable complication if the Federation and the Romulan Republic found them sympathetic, at least at first.
Would you wake up from your fanboi fantasy already.
Before I continue to argue my points when time permits, why don't you drop the internet tough guy persona and get your damned bitter attitude under control.
I disagree with you, that doesn't mean you need to be such a hostile sourpuss.
terrorists attacking the weak to try make a political point especially to a warrior to recognises the actions of these cowards attacking the helpless. no honor in it, as a result they should be shown no honor in return. your also forgetting klingons possess federation allies and their technology as well as klingon cloaking technology. these terrorists wouldnt stand a chance when they have to come up for air.
And another Klingon might see the Empire's abuse of a small defiant group of dissidents in the same way. Another problem with the so-called Klingon honor code... it's horridly inconsistent.
And, in fact, that small defiant against-the-odds organization might be seen by some in the Empire as an honorable ally against rival houses. They show a lot of warrior's heart in the face of insurmountable odds.
I was just watching the DS9 episode Blaze of Glory, and it got me pining for some more solid Maquis stories. But since the original Maquis were killed off in the Dominion war, how about a new group of settlers and colonists who organize over a similar cause, this time, on the Klingon border.
The end of the KDF-Fed war is a great opportunity to introduce a rogue cell of former-Federation colonists who's worlds were ceded to the Klingon Empire in the midst of peace talks.
I know everything's got to revolve around the iconians, or 8472 or the silly Dinosaur people... whatever the big-bad of the season is... but I'd love to see some stories that get back to something much more organic, like the Maquis!
The Dominion wiped out the Maquis.
It was their "gift" to the Cardassians when Cardassia joined the Dominion.
But since the original Maquis were killed off in the Dominion war, how about a new group of settlers and colonists who organize over a similar cause...
Quoted myself because people continue to respond as if I didn't say it.
its also side in a EP of VOY when b'elanna gets news from home dont recall the name but one where she keep going to the holodeck and doing some dangerous program with safety's off
How is the Klingon Empire simply going to stomp out a loosely organized terrorist organization. Sure, they take out a settlement... and in the process indiscriminately kill thousands of others, which in turn enrages the ranks against the empire, then they ramp up their attacks, and turn more and more dissidents against them.
Eventually, the disdain spreads to within the Empire- hell, that's always festering- and you've got another Klingon civil war. They can't stop fighting each other long enough to develop a surgical strategy against a decentralized opponent.
It is the ideal enemy to face off against the Klingons. They're too reactionary, too ham-fisted and generally too blockheaded to fight such a fight.
Given how J' mpok dealt with the gorn and the Orions.... Even if there WERE any territory exchange that might spawn a marquis like organization J'mpok would more likely find a way to use that capacities, be it military or other, to his advantage and include those colonists into the empire if they proof worthy.
If they don't they aren't a thread in the first place.
The Maquis gave the Cardies trouble because they were damn lucky, as I have previously shown.
Luck is always a lame excuse.
Let's face facts, the Cardassians are a much more savvy, intelligence based military force than the KDF, and when the Cardassians faced off against the KDF, the war was deadlock until the tables shifted with the entry of the Federation and Dominion into the war. And mind you, this was a fresh Klingon military, coming off of several years of relative peace... the Cardassians were coming off of a major defeat in the Gamma quadrant, and the Klingons still could not gain the advantage over them.
When their luck ran out, the entire "loosely organized terrorist organization" was utterly slaughtered by the Dominion inside of a week.
The Klingon Empire is not the Dominion, A. And B, The Maquis were, at that moment, in a state of disarray with their leader being captured by Sisko. And C, it was ultimately another loosely organized terrorist organization that DID infiltrate the Dominion and take it down.
The same Dominion that was simultaneously doing the following:
Overthrowing the Cardassian government to secure its foothold. Logically this would've included one or more pitched battles against Cardassian Guard forces loyal to the Detapa Council, who would've had various home field advantages.
Gul Dukat led a political alliance with Dominion. You have no evidence of a shot ever having been fired once they departed from the bajoran wormhole as allies.
[*]We know for a fact they were also busy kicking half the Klingon Defense Force to the curb, because Gowron came running back to Deep Space 9 in "By Inferno's Light" to re-sign the Khitomer Accords.
Right. The dominion made easy work of the KDF on it's own. You're only advancing the argument that the KDF is weak compared to the Dominion here.
And this was with one single battle group that included nothing bigger than a heavy cruiser, not the full force of the Dominion with JHDCs and so forth. Do you really think a Klingon Empire that has been on a war footing for three decades at this point can't marshal that kind of force, or stronger?
Absolutely.
This is a Klingon Empire that is coming off of continuous war and strife with the Romulans, then the Cardassians, then the Dominion, then the Federation, and now the Borg and the Undine, and so on...
When the Klingon/Cardassian war started, they'd come off of decades of relative peace. Yet they couldn't muster enough to topple the beat-up Cardassians, who never managed to topple the Maquis on their own.
Not to mention the fact that the Klingon military style is a far less ideal match against an opponent like the Maquis than is the Cardassians'.
Your arguments fail to convince me at all. The records of these species and organizations speak for themselves.
You also badly misjudge the Klingon psyche, as mirrorchaos noted.
There is no consistent Klingon psyche. Their honor codes are inconsistent, and their actions are irrational. That is a major key to their ultimate undoing.
And another Klingon might see the Empire's abuse of a small defiant group of dissidents in the same way. Another problem with the so-called Klingon honor code... it's horridly inconsistent.
And, in fact, that small defiant against-the-odds organization might be seen by some in the Empire as an honorable ally against rival houses. They show a lot of warrior's heart in the face of insurmountable odds.
just fighting for the hell of it isnt really honorable because your fighting for no reason, the same with sneak attacks. you fight for a good cause or do something brave enough and to klingons its worthy, but if there was a situation along the federation klingon border and these renegades attacked klingon civilians just to try make a point, that would be taken as a dim view by the high council, they would like send a ship or two with troops to investigate it and if that was the true intent of these terrorists by fooling their enemy into a massacre and it happened, it would probably provoke a far more serious reaction, especially if klingon intelligence found were the terrorists are based from. the klingons would likely go out there in force and obliterate the enemy, renegades hiding within the civilians or not, the klingons would likely just rain weapons fire on the area to either force the terrorists to give up their hopeless cause or force them into hiding and become far less of an issue if at all any..
house rivalries are decided in house, that is why its a house thing between families. the house of duras brought outsiders into the mix with romulans and the council took a dim view of this because to them when it was discovered it showed that duras was weak enough he had to rely on outsiders to help him. the same with house of kozak with quark and the sons of mogh with picard. if a klingon can not stand on his own feet with a blade ready to fight or die, there is nothing in it for them.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
The dishonorable slithering ROMULANS were able to start a Klingon Civil War! You don't think a noble and warrior-like, scrappy, against-the-odds force of ragtag defiant dissidents could divide the unpredictable and inconsistent Klingon leadership?
Let's face facts, the Cardassians are a much more savvy, intelligence based military force than the KDF, and when the Cardassians faced off against the KDF, the war was deadlock until the tables shifted with the entry of the Federation and Dominion into the war. And mind you, this was a fresh Klingon military, coming off of several years of relative peace... the Cardassians were coming off of a major defeat in the Gamma quadrant, and the Klingons still could not gain the advantage over them.
What? The cardassians could barley hold the lines and that with a lot of support from the federation on the back lines. And the Klingons had (as stated in "the way of the warrior") only 1/3 of their fleet there.
Also the ships lost in the gamma quadrant were not part of the cardassian military and therefore do not count as "major loss"
Also... How many were that? It were 20 ships COMBINED with the romulan fleet. That's nothing compared to the thousands of ships single fleets had later.
The Klingon Empire is not the Dominion, A. And B, The Maquis were, at that moment, in a state of disarray with their leader being captured by Sisko. And C, it was ultimately another loosely organized terrorist organization that DID infiltrate the Dominion and take it down
Eddington was not the leader on the marquis. The marquis operated in cells there never was a general leader.
They were simply overpowered and would have been under any circumstances.
And section 47 is a lot if things but certainly not "a loosely organized terrorist organisation"
When the Klingon/Cardassian war started, they'd come off of decades of relative peace. Yet they couldn't muster enough to topple the beat-up Cardassians, who never managed to topple the Maquis on their own.
You don't know I with who the Klingons were at war over the time. Also the was a pretty bloody civil war we witnessed just a few years before. And you should re watch ds9, the Klingons were kicking the cardassians asses. They had taken almost half of their territory in the first few days.
They were clearly and easyly on the winning course which is why Dukat saw no option then selling out cardassia to the dominion.
Not to mention the fact that the Klingon military style is a far less ideal match against an opponent like the Maquis than is the Cardassians'.
Clearly cloaked ships are a far better target for an organisation like the marquis them the clearly visible cardassian ones... :rolleyes:
Eddington was not the leader on the marquis. The marquis operated in cells there never was a general leader.
They were simply overpowered and would have been under any circumstances.
And section 47 is a lot if things but certainly not "a loosely organized terrorist organisation"
Eddington was an integral leader of the Maquis, as stated in Blaze of Glory. Eddington himself, whether right or wrong, believed his absence was a major contributing factor to their destruction.
Also. There is no such group as the "maRquis". And I have no idea who you're talking about with "Section 47"... I'd assume you mean Section 31, but that's not what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about the Cardassian terrorists, led by Kira and Damar.
Comments
I agree entirely. That's why I'd prefer a 'new' Maquis to actually make more sense from a plot perspective, with only loose connotations to the previous organization.
I strongly doubt a future society's view on crimes against humanity (or I suppose I should call it "crimes against sapient life" in this context) would be any different than those of present day civilized humanity. Eddington fully deserved to spend the rest of his life rotting in a holding cell, because you do not intentionally target civilians unless you militarily have no other choice. And yes, that makes Sisko's actions in that episode just as unconscionable as Eddington's.
You underestimate the Klingons and overestimate the Maquis. Forget their babble about honor and look at the actions: The Klingons can be just as sneaky and underhanded as the Cardassians. More so, in fact, precisely because they don't have a reputation for being sneaky TRIBBLE thanks to all the "honorable warrior" BS they spout. As for the Maquis? The Dominion utterly slaughtered them inside of a week. And with the Jenolan Accords the Klingons are no longer distracted by a full-scale war against the only other remaining first-tier polity* in local space (the Federation). Do the math.
* A term I've come up with for ranking the various governments in Star Trek. In the TNG era the first-tier powers of the Alpha/Beta Quadrant border region were the Feds, Klinks, and Romulans. The second-tier powers were folks like the Cardassians, Ferengi, Gorn, Breen, Tholians, and Tzenkethi. Tier 3 is little small multi-system powers like the Talarians. Tier 4 is roughly any single-system polity like the Acamarians or Bajorans. And for the record, the Romulan Republic is Tier 3, with delusions of being Tier 1 that the two actual Tier 1 powers haven't had the balls to disabuse them of yet.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
system Lord Baal is dead
Precisely. No more of this 'I reject your Trek and replace it with my own' nonsense.
While I don't really disagree with your idea in general (and I think we all wish that would do SOMETHING with Andoria), the idea of Imperialists in Andoria seems silly. The Andorian Empire has more or less not been around for 250 years. I doubt there are even any Andorians left who remember it, let alone would want to return to it.
Honestly I feel the same way about having Bajorans running around worried about the Federation being the next "Cardassian Occupation" at this point (which as always annoyed me about "Of Bajor"). The Federation has been hanging around Bajor for over 40 years. If they wanted to occupy the planet, what are they waiting for. :P
The Maquis wanted their homes Cardassian-free because the Cardassians treated them similarly as they had the Bajorans. And the Federation came into play because the Maquis were constantly crossing borders and getting supplies from Federation space. The alternative would have been to either allow Cardassian warships in Federation space or stomp the Cardassian's faces in for good to teach them a few things about basic human rights. The Federation really messed up, just like with the Treaty of Algeron. I blame synthehol.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
eddington was cunning, dismissive, arrogant and from the looks of it not entirely focused however he was not a fool. he promoted the maquis line of thinking but the maquis main mandate was to get rid of the cardassians from the dmz and do as much political damage as possible to make their cause look sympathetic and their use of violence as well as they have proven blood thirsty when it happens. eddington's aim was to follow the line to a point and use of weapons on a planetary scale to force the cardassians off worlds once occupied by federation colonists. luckily the cardassian thinking was taken into account when the maquis setup and it took almost 4 years to exterminate the maquis due to dominion interference, but not completely eradicate them, some survived in a federation prison and the rest were on voyager lost the delta quadrant.
i doubt any of those maquis on the voyager had any feeling about starting another maquis up because of their time serving on the federation starship besides these other officers and those locked up in prison learned a hard lesson about doing what they did, it failed. why TRIBBLE up twice?
if a maquis type situation exploded on the klingon border, the klingons wouldnt have any issue exterminating the colony to put down a rebellion unlike the cardassians, cardassians like to have the upper hand in any dealings bmeaning they must be cautious as to how they deal with the problem but the klingons never cared too much about diplomacy. invasion troops or a direct bombardment. so that 3/4 of the point secured.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
And that's just for the survivors.
aka the unlucky dissidents.
Eventually, the disdain spreads to within the Empire- hell, that's always festering- and you've got another Klingon civil war. They can't stop fighting each other long enough to develop a surgical strategy against a decentralized opponent.
It is the ideal enemy to face off against the Klingons. They're too reactionary, too ham-fisted and generally too blockheaded to fight such a fight.
terrorists attacking the weak to try make a political point especially to a warrior to recognises the actions of these cowards attacking the helpless. no honor in it, as a result they should be shown no honor in return. your also forgetting klingons possess federation allies and their technology as well as klingon cloaking technology. these terrorists wouldnt stand a chance when they have to come up for air.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Would you wake up from your fanboi fantasy already. The Maquis gave the Cardies trouble because they were damn lucky, as I have previously shown. When their luck ran out, the entire "loosely organized terrorist organization" was utterly slaughtered by the Dominion inside of a week. The same Dominion that was simultaneously doing the following:
And this was with one single battle group that included nothing bigger than a heavy cruiser, not the full force of the Dominion with JHDCs and so forth. Do you really think a Klingon Empire that has been on a war footing for three decades at this point can't marshal that kind of force, or stronger?
You also badly misjudge the Klingon psyche, as mirrorchaos noted.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Well it's at least a concept that acknowledges that
A. The original marquis has been erased
B. the marquis is not existing just for its own sake like... Any empire essentially is, but a group with a mission... Which again has become obsolete with the end of the dominion war.
Still there are a few problems with that:
- I kind of doubt the federation repeats the same mistakes (although the cardassian treaty the caused the marquis in the first place was so stupid that it was hard to believe it happened the first time around)
- with a New Peace we'd probably get the old borders back and will not assign federation colonies to Klingon space (which is what happened with the cardassians)
- political correctness. Back then, when ds9 was made there was a lot if sympathy for a little "underdog freedom fighters fighting the evil empire" group called the Taliban. They were the template for the marquis and the bajorans. After 9/11... Let's just say that whole thing lost sympathies.
I don't think essentially a "playable terrorist faction" is a good idea these days.
- if as playable faction.... How is a playable faction only using shuttles and fighters supposed to work in sto?
I don't think it works to make a new Maquis, there was no territory exchange, but we've already seen the Gorn separatists at least, and the Klingons have just had an Imperialist surge. It'd be interesting to have some trouble there with an elusive enemy they can't pin down and crush, and it'd be a workable complication if the Federation and the Romulan Republic found them sympathetic, at least at first.
Before I continue to argue my points when time permits, why don't you drop the internet tough guy persona and get your damned bitter attitude under control.
I disagree with you, that doesn't mean you need to be such a hostile sourpuss.
And another Klingon might see the Empire's abuse of a small defiant group of dissidents in the same way. Another problem with the so-called Klingon honor code... it's horridly inconsistent.
And, in fact, that small defiant against-the-odds organization might be seen by some in the Empire as an honorable ally against rival houses. They show a lot of warrior's heart in the face of insurmountable odds.
The Dominion wiped out the Maquis.
It was their "gift" to the Cardassians when Cardassia joined the Dominion.
Quoted myself because people continue to respond as if I didn't say it.
system Lord Baal is dead
LOL
I completely agree, but only if they're led by Snoop Dogg and Katy Perry on a dark horse! :eek::D:P
Given how J' mpok dealt with the gorn and the Orions.... Even if there WERE any territory exchange that might spawn a marquis like organization J'mpok would more likely find a way to use that capacities, be it military or other, to his advantage and include those colonists into the empire if they proof worthy.
If they don't they aren't a thread in the first place.
Luck is always a lame excuse.
Let's face facts, the Cardassians are a much more savvy, intelligence based military force than the KDF, and when the Cardassians faced off against the KDF, the war was deadlock until the tables shifted with the entry of the Federation and Dominion into the war. And mind you, this was a fresh Klingon military, coming off of several years of relative peace... the Cardassians were coming off of a major defeat in the Gamma quadrant, and the Klingons still could not gain the advantage over them.
The Klingon Empire is not the Dominion, A. And B, The Maquis were, at that moment, in a state of disarray with their leader being captured by Sisko. And C, it was ultimately another loosely organized terrorist organization that DID infiltrate the Dominion and take it down.
Gul Dukat led a political alliance with Dominion. You have no evidence of a shot ever having been fired once they departed from the bajoran wormhole as allies.
Right. The dominion made easy work of the KDF on it's own. You're only advancing the argument that the KDF is weak compared to the Dominion here.
Absolutely.
This is a Klingon Empire that is coming off of continuous war and strife with the Romulans, then the Cardassians, then the Dominion, then the Federation, and now the Borg and the Undine, and so on...
When the Klingon/Cardassian war started, they'd come off of decades of relative peace. Yet they couldn't muster enough to topple the beat-up Cardassians, who never managed to topple the Maquis on their own.
Not to mention the fact that the Klingon military style is a far less ideal match against an opponent like the Maquis than is the Cardassians'.
Your arguments fail to convince me at all. The records of these species and organizations speak for themselves.
There is no consistent Klingon psyche. Their honor codes are inconsistent, and their actions are irrational. That is a major key to their ultimate undoing.
just fighting for the hell of it isnt really honorable because your fighting for no reason, the same with sneak attacks. you fight for a good cause or do something brave enough and to klingons its worthy, but if there was a situation along the federation klingon border and these renegades attacked klingon civilians just to try make a point, that would be taken as a dim view by the high council, they would like send a ship or two with troops to investigate it and if that was the true intent of these terrorists by fooling their enemy into a massacre and it happened, it would probably provoke a far more serious reaction, especially if klingon intelligence found were the terrorists are based from. the klingons would likely go out there in force and obliterate the enemy, renegades hiding within the civilians or not, the klingons would likely just rain weapons fire on the area to either force the terrorists to give up their hopeless cause or force them into hiding and become far less of an issue if at all any..
house rivalries are decided in house, that is why its a house thing between families. the house of duras brought outsiders into the mix with romulans and the council took a dim view of this because to them when it was discovered it showed that duras was weak enough he had to rely on outsiders to help him. the same with house of kozak with quark and the sons of mogh with picard. if a klingon can not stand on his own feet with a blade ready to fight or die, there is nothing in it for them.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
The dishonorable slithering ROMULANS were able to start a Klingon Civil War! You don't think a noble and warrior-like, scrappy, against-the-odds force of ragtag defiant dissidents could divide the unpredictable and inconsistent Klingon leadership?
What? The cardassians could barley hold the lines and that with a lot of support from the federation on the back lines. And the Klingons had (as stated in "the way of the warrior") only 1/3 of their fleet there.
Also the ships lost in the gamma quadrant were not part of the cardassian military and therefore do not count as "major loss"
Also... How many were that? It were 20 ships COMBINED with the romulan fleet. That's nothing compared to the thousands of ships single fleets had later.
Eddington was not the leader on the marquis. The marquis operated in cells there never was a general leader.
They were simply overpowered and would have been under any circumstances.
And section 47 is a lot if things but certainly not "a loosely organized terrorist organisation"
You don't know I with who the Klingons were at war over the time. Also the was a pretty bloody civil war we witnessed just a few years before. And you should re watch ds9, the Klingons were kicking the cardassians asses. They had taken almost half of their territory in the first few days.
They were clearly and easyly on the winning course which is why Dukat saw no option then selling out cardassia to the dominion.
Clearly cloaked ships are a far better target for an organisation like the marquis them the clearly visible cardassian ones... :rolleyes:
Eddington was an integral leader of the Maquis, as stated in Blaze of Glory. Eddington himself, whether right or wrong, believed his absence was a major contributing factor to their destruction.
Also. There is no such group as the "maRquis". And I have no idea who you're talking about with "Section 47"... I'd assume you mean Section 31, but that's not what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about the Cardassian terrorists, led by Kira and Damar.
Now you're making unfounded assumptions. If you have no evidence, for the purposes of this discussion, it didn't happen.