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Rally cry and motion accelerator.
simeion1
Member Posts: 898 Arc User
Cryptic please look into the stacking of motion accelerator and rally cry with other players. Currently MA and RC can be stacked to buff a lunge upwards of 5000 damage per hit. This is one shoting numerous NPCs and players in PvP. The problem exist when you add three purple security doffs four stacks of rally cry and motion accelerator. With proper speced out tac four rally cries add +28 to crit or better then the melee doffs add another 15%. Add the gambling device at 10% and any type of armor physical boost and omega bonuses the crit lunge is well over 50% chance and the crit damage is near 400%. Please look into the game balance of this.
My suggestions would be make sure rally cry and motion accelerator is not able to stack on top of each other. Also would look into adding a shared cool down between the two abilities.
My suggestions would be make sure rally cry and motion accelerator is not able to stack on top of each other. Also would look into adding a shared cool down between the two abilities.
Post edited by simeion1 on
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Also I would guess that the 5,000 damage is probably the 'perfect' hit sort of situation, the maximum one can achieve.
Why I agree that one person can do that. That is not the problem. The problem is the stacking. When a PvP team can be cleared out in the matter of seconds because of the ability lunge then pulse wave. I got hit by 873 damage with full shields and no crit. This is to OP. I don't mind players working well and destroying a team but this is game breaking.
It stacks with all buffs so they will use it with ambush and target optics for a damage buff way, way beyond rally cry.
Balance is hard to come by especially with the op kits. I only use blue quality melee doffs but if I spent X millions on purple kdf melee doffs, I would be upset if they nerfed lunge potential. My highest lunge so far in season 9: Your Lunge deals 8939 (3080) Physical Damage(Critical) to [1v1 against player]. Stacking and seeing how big of a lunge one can get is part of what makes pvp fun. Idk, without oneshotting, sci officers with medic are nearly invincible.
I don't think the receiving end of that damage finds it's fun.
A ~9K damage with Lunge is like, destroying a SHUTTLE with a DROP KICK. Do you really agree with that?
STO Screenshot Archive
Are your characters Vulcan? Because you're taking the fun out of it but have valid point with your logic.
It might be ok to try and use uber-hits on something like dedicated sci-medic. But what about non-medic scis, tacs, and engs? Other tacs have all the same tricks any tac can do, non-medic scis have other control abilities still, engs have stuff like mines and the like.
Even so, nobody is truly invincible, and when we start seeing constant, never-ending one shots, I do understand it stops being fun or enjoyable for the person taking it.
What's the bigger issue though:
Super-stacking critical chance/severity now that the kit revamp has happened, or the buffed damage that lunge can achieve?
The stacking of crit h/d is the issue along with the stacking of damage bonus from motion accelerator. Combining four MA can almost one shot a person with the minor buffs and the 80% need through of the lunge. It is the combination. Of it all that make non crit lunges one shots. This is out of hand. I don't mind a player that has one stack of MA, RC, ambush and target optics one shorting me with a lucky hard hitting shot. Tacs should be able to do this, after all they are supposed to be about dps. But it should only happen once or twice every ten or so lunges.
This along with the dot from the new rep gun is insane. I have been hit by a dot of 400 with the way buffs are happening. I was not even hit by the weapon just two dot tics and I died.
And frankly, I don't appreciate you trying to ruin rest of the game because pvp is broken. Pvp will always be broken. Cryptic should just excise this cancer that is pvp so the whine and nerfs don't kill rest of sto. The game is better off without it.
The simple fact is lunge needs to change. I can one hit kill a target with lunge just by using Target Optics and getting a critical hit. In addition I can stack up Ambush, Stealth Module decloak, Motion Accelerator, Strike Team, and Rally Cry to hit for 5,500+ damage.
Rally Cry is a bit of a problem due to the height the Critical Chance and Critical Severity can be stacked. Two players using Rally Cry at the same time get +14% Critical Chance and +140% Critical Severity added to all outgoing attacks. In all honestly the critical bonuses on Rally Cry need to be cut in half and the heal needs to be doubled or tripled. A 15 second shared cooldown with Ambush would also solve the majority of Ambush + Rally Cry one hit kills.
Motion Accelerator ultimately isn't much of a problem. Use of the ability spreading to the team requires standing within four meters of the activating teamate. The ability is most effective when staggered rather than stacked due to a three minute cooldown before Tactical Initiative. It may be for the best to tone down the speed bonus a bit, but removing the stackability of the ability wouldn't accomplish much. Lunge is one hit killing without the aid of Motion Accelerator.
Lunge is just as much a problem in PvE when players are capable of instant killing an Elite Tactical Drone through shields on the elite difficulty.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
PvP is the only true end game worth playing. I am not asking to make lunge where buffs don't work on it. I just don't want four to five copies of the same buff stacking against lunge. Pvpers are what brings game balance into check. Bring this into blance is not ruining the game. It is making it playable. So I don't appreciate people that want a I win button.
This is part of the issues. Before in order to have lunge you did not have rally cry or motion accelerator on the kit. You had to have a second or third tac to buff your abilities. Now since a team of four of five tacs can buff each other's lunges it has become a Over Power issue. Then you add tactical initiative into the mix those four to five tacs can have these powers up almost all the time. It is a balancing bug that was not tested when the kits came out because no one tested it while on tribble.
*(or tripled, in the case of Lunge, but Lunge is just the most extreme example - and it was already doubled a couple seasons earlier, so it's up about six times where it was in Season 5 or 6)
Nerfing lunge would help PvE, at least. My suggestion would be to change its damage type from physical melee (80% penetration, co-buffs with melee attacks, extra damage to crouched targets) to kinetic (50% penetration, buffs normally), and make it an Expose, not an Exploit, but leave the damage the same. Right now Lunge is the Tricobalt Oneshot of ground PvE and it does need to be nerfed.
There's no easy one-stop cure for ground PvP, because you don't need to do 6000 damage to kill a player - about a 1200 timed correctly will do the job. If it weren't super-lunge it'd be tac-buffed super Exothermic Induction Field. If it weren't that it'd be abusing the four-year-old-never-getting-fixed 'grenades don't consume ambush' bug (feature lol), probably in conjunction with cloak and a compression pistol or pulsewave, using Photon Grenade for max damage.
And that's just for pugging PvP. I haven't tested it yet to be sure, but I'm fairly certain you can run a five-player premade with the Undine 3set, and as long as at least 4 of you are tacs, everything dies once a minute every minute from across the map, courtesy of superbuffing and synchronizing the 3set. It should average about 4000 damage (50% penetration) per synchronized hit when done right, and it's Radiation, which isn't resisted by conventional armor.
I used to love this game. Now I'm just here for the dress-up and the community.
I haven't really tried any of the ground equipment, or even have finished Undine rep yet, so I dunno much about that.
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I have not done enough studying on that but the dot is insane. I don't know if it is being buffed or is it just that nasty.
Removing Target Optics from buffing Lunge won't change anything. Target Optics is just +49.5% all damage and it tiny compared to Ambush (+149.5%). The problem is the fact that Lunge IV can have a base of 400 damage before any buffs are applied. I was outlining that even the slightest damage buff with a 33.334% uptime can push lunge to the point where it can one hit kill players.
The 8472 rifle has several issues that are game breaking. First, the weapon has a proc that deals radiation damage. This proc is unfortunately also buffed by anything improving all damage and can be used to one hit kill players passively.
Secondly, the weapon's secondary attack will not have a cooldown if the player stacks the two piece 8472 set bonus and Tactical Initiative. The secondary attack is balanced around a 10 second cooldown, but players may use it non-stop while under Tactical Initiative due to no minimum cooldown. This is clearly an oversight because pulsewave assault, compression pistols, and all weapon types have a minimum cooldown on secondary.
Third, the weapon's secondary attack will bug out if the player breaks line of sight with the target before final detonation. The 8472 charges up dealing 10 damage 6 times over 3 seconds before detonating for 150 damage (base numbers). However, breaking line of sight will cause the secondary attack to prematurely detonate once for each of the remaining DoT ticks. For example, if you fire the secondary and immediately break line of sight you should have 10 damage 5 more times before the 150 explosion. Instead the rifle will detonate for 150 damage 5 times instead of 10 damage 5 times. Then, the weapon will detonate again for 150 more damage. This results in the players dealing 1,050 base damage before any form of damage buff. Oh, did I mention the explosion is dealt in a three meter AoE with no range dissipation?...yeah...
Those changes were intended to fix the rather weak melee weapons within the game. Unfortunately those changes have greatly improved Lunge while only moderately improving actual melee weapons.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
No you could have had Motion accelerator and Lunge at any time prior to s9 on the same kit if you used the Tactical Kit - Close Combat Specialist starting at Mk V though most avoided that as you received a bigger dmg bonus from using another kit unless strictly built for melee combat. if you are running a team of 4-5 tacs then you are already trying to max the damage potential probably with a sci to run debuffs on the opposing team. How is this different than team buffed sniper shots from say an elachi weapon?
The rifle is also bugged as I understand it... but you don't need to fire a shot!
http://i.imgur.com/jOr2SUV.png
Superbuffing by myself using mk11 purple modules. You can pump the crit chance and severity higher if you stack Rally Cries, iirc, and obviously the damage will be higher if you have grandfathered mk12 pink modules. That's an average of 771 damage per player, before considering the effect of stacked Rally Cry. Multiply by a team of five for an average hit of 3855, minimum of 1999, maximum of 6759 (again, without stacked rally cry). Cycle time should be once a minute with tactical initiative.
The future of ground pvp, lol.
You are right about MA and Lunge, but the kits was not used very often in ground PvP. Still the chance of fining the right buffs from team mates was even rarer. The fix would be to stop the stacking of MA and RC. Other team buffs like science aptitude don't stack. Yes this is a captains ability instead of a kit ability, but it still buffs the team.
Actually the only ability that doesn't stack is the Rear Admiral skill for all captains (Scientific Aptitude, Engineering Proficiency, and Strike Team). Every other ability that affects teammates stacks (Nanite Health Monitor, Tactical Initiative, Overwatch, etc.). Motion Accelerator is balanced for stacking due to a three minute cooldown and a four meter transfer radius. It is very impractical to stack Motion Accelerator and makes little sense due to the fact that Motion Accelerator works best when staggered for longer uptime. Rally Cry's critical severity bonus is out of hand, but that is true for even a single copy. It should still stack, but the bonus needs to be decreased in order to make stacked Rally Cry more reasonable.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
All I can say is...oh my, I see what you all mean now.
It is bad game mechanics when a gun side effect like an aoe can do so much damage. It is not just the tacs benifiting from the damage increase from the stacks. All classes are benifiting from it. Mines and exothermic induction. But the more tacs the more stacks and more often with tactical int.
Mines are a problem right now because they are flanking again. This bug was specifically fixed with Season 9 and resurfaced about 4-5 weeks ago. Exothermic Induction Field is a problem because it doesn't have a minimum cooldown, but Borticuscryptic did comment on the concerns directory and we may see a minimum cooldown in the next month or two.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Dot duffs
spam inheriting owners buffs
cloaking period
Running virus while cloaked
omega cloaking
The other classes have had issues as well. The traits are not working correctly. Some traits you don't even have to have slotted to be active.
I was in a shanty the other day....I watched how one tac would uncloak and one shot lunge someone.....then on the other team...a tac uncloaked on the first one and did the same thing. Then the logging in/out started. This is not pvp...its a joke. Having multiple copies of any ability stack on a team level isn't needed.
If you want ground pvp fixed or better...we as a community have to learn to play the game and stop with the agendas. The same toons do the same thing consistently. As far as im concerned...sit in those qs alone then.
I welcome anyone that wishes to discuss more about this to come on our mumble server...send me a mail/tell for info.