So as much as we hate people like Kurland and Quinn, sadly we need them. Our lives would be dull and boring without them.
I'm going to make a Terry Pratchett reference so bear with me.
Sam Vimes would disagree.
Google it if you feel it necessary (I wouldn't), but the point is that even with competent leaders there's still work for the underlings to do. In fact the best work (ie. the stories with the best dramatic setup) come from where honcho A sends protagonist B on adventure C but precisely in the way that best applies the talents of B to the developing situation in C. That situation breaks, the hero plays the part of the hero to the very best of their ability, and you have a very good story. See. The Fifth Elephant, or *sigh* the Hobbit.
In STO what we have is merely the product of weak writing. We have all the elements of "competent" leader sending competent follower out into the plot but without the appropriate fine tuning of compounding characterizations and plot elements clicking nicely into place to build a more impressive structure than those constituent parts were by themselves. It's the right pattern but without the fine detail, as it were. We could still have that detail (ie. Quinn actually knows what he's doing [that is not just responding to stimuli by reflexively throwing you at it], he just needs someone to go do it, see. the Tuvok school of command) and still have an adventure, but it would take a little more effort in the writing.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Kurland let DS9 be taken over what.. 2? 3 times?
He ordered retreat from DS9 DISPITE the fact that I cleared out all enemies.
Admiral T'nae sent a Species 8472 in disguise as a Federation Admiral int a first strike mission against the Tal'shiar.
I think balloons and dancers are the least of our problems.
Undine in "Shutdown".
Terrans in "Crack in the Mirror".
5 episodes for "Second Wave".
13 episodes in that sector block and Kurland is out of control for 7 of them.
Plus a fleet action that got removed.
Kurland is literally in command less than 50% of the time.
If I could re-do that content, I'd scrap a big chunk of the Cardassian missions and go with a Mirror Terok Nor Adventure Zone like Nimbus. That would feel much more logical as a place where we'd be getting in firefights all the time with a DS9 map backdrop instead of having Kurland lose the station.
I'd probably also relocate the Cardassian colony missions. Merge Beta Ursae and Alpha Trianguli into one large sector block like Tau Dewa. Empty out the Zenas Expanse. (Can't get rid of it because there are Foundry hookups there.)
sisko is a god now and has better thing to do with his infinite time
So why not dedicate a fraction of infinity to doing something productive!
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
What's always bothered me about the game's Admiral Quinn is that it isn't the same Admiral Quinn from the show (TNG). While I'm sure that that Quinn would be dead, what's the point of naming this guy Quinn?
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
Yes, and we know how well he's keeping those going. On the one hand maybe the next dominion fleet expelled will be from the future, that would certainly spice things up, and on the other let's just hope the next Kai can keep their third leg tucked in beneath the robe for most public occasions. :P
Some time in a finite linear existence would probably be good for him.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
sisko is a god now and has better thing to do with his infinite time
Actually, it is worth pointing out, that the final episode of DS9, Sisko did indicate an intention to return to a linear, corporeal (and I am assuming non "god-like") existence at some point. Of course given the non-linear nature of the Prophets, when that is is anyone's guess.
Though I believe the books do have him back in corporeal existence now. Still STO's timeline seems to suggest he is still among the Prophets as a non-corporeal, non-linear being.
Actually, it is worth pointing out, that the final episode of DS9, Sisko did indicate an intention to return to a linear, corporeal (and I am assuming non "god-like") existence at some point. Of course given the non-linear nature of the Prophets, when that is is anyone's guess.
20,000 years later
"Hey guys, I'mmmmm back! Whose up for some baseball!"
*The otters just look at him.*
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
So all this talk about should Quinn be fired and not Is he even Admiral Quinn?
The Undine are very tricky they use their morphing technique to confuse their prey and are known to use even their own kind as a diversion. Secondly, dont Undine some sort of physical contact, albeit brief, to enable themselves to mimic an intended target?
Who better to mimic than Quin? How better to distract us all from his replacement than staging an attack on his life? I demand mandatory genetic screening for all Starfleet personnel! The Undines ability to mimic is impressive, but it isnt absolute. Trace anomalies in any mimicked host should be enough to identify them. The issue is controlling a test to isolate and identify those anomalies, and in order to do that we will need to test Undine in their hosts form. They seem rather less than willing to cooperate and we can not scan for something we do not know if we dont know what were looking for or from whom.
Quin needs to be quarantined immediately and subdued to a battery of tests, as do any and all Starfleet personnel present on the station during the attack.
How can this guy be in command of Starfleet when he can't even control his own headquarters. He has let a number of knuckleheads run rampant all around his new and shiny ESD shooting balloons, fog and disco lights at all hours of the day. His officers are dancing when they are on duty. How are we supposed to fight the Iconians with this lot of slackers.
Come on Admiral, get out from behind your desk and take back the ESD.
Quin needs to be quarantined immediately and subdued to a battery of tests, as do any and all Starfleet personnel present on the station during the attack.
Well that was what Cryptic was playing at during the mission. "Oh there's quinn, no he's a space monster. Is that really quinn on the comm?" The suspicion fell obviously on him but it was the little known engineer who was the infiltrator. You might still suspect another beard-wearing space monster is posing as the old man but to what purpose would Cryptic write that? Is there going to be another trump to play when the Undine attack ESD again (this time with feeling)? And in that case why allow Shon to use FED resources to save the KDF? As head honcho he certainly could have taken the position "no, we have to defend ourselves" with little if any suspicion that he had a third leg.
Possible: probably not so I'd put away the more invasive probes for the moment. You sir, on the other hand, have just bought yourself an hour with the lower transpectral interogulator! It would be a cunning plot indeed to question the species of a superior officer to cover up your own subversive actions!
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Well that was what Cryptic was playing at during the mission. "Oh there's quinn, no he's a space monster. Is that really quinn on the comm?" The suspicion fell obviously on him but it was the little known engineer who was the infiltrator. You might still suspect another beard-wearing space monster is posing as the old man but to what purpose would Cryptic write that? Is there going to be another trump to play when the Undine attack ESD again (this time with feeling)? And in that case why allow Shon to use FED resources to save the KDF? As head honcho he certainly could have taken the position "no, we have to defend ourselves" with little if any suspicion that he had a third leg.
Possible: probably not so I'd put away the more invasive probes for the moment. You sir, on the other hand, have just bought yourself an hour with the lower transpectral interogulator! It would be a cunning plot indeed to question the species of a superior officer to cover up your own subversive actions!
Subject me to any test you wish. I know I am me.
Ive already stated, as Admiral Tuvok has also reiterated; the Undine are a clever race. It is not unthinkable that Egg was a decoy to keep us from suspecting Quinn. As for why Cryptic would so something like this . STORY (he cries hopefully). Give us something more than Bad guys attacked destroyed the ESD but hey! We got a shiny new one so alls good!
Personally, Id like to have seen the restoration of the ESD take more time force players to use a broken and shattered ESD while the repairs are coming along, then surprise us with a new version. But thats just me.
As far as Shon, I disagree. What Shon did was no different than what Cpt Garrett did, saving the Klingons from a Romulan attack. That action established a rekindled peace between not only between the KDF and Starfleet, but a new peace between all three major powers of the Alpha Quadrant. Id say that was more than worth the loss of the Aquarius.
Garry: My God, what was happening to him?
MacReady: If it had more time to finish, it would have looked and sounded and acted just like Bennings!
Garry: I don't know what you're saying.
MacReady: That was one of those things out there trying to imitate him, Garry. C'mon.
Garry: MacReady, I know Bennings. I've known him for ten years. He's my friend.
MacReady: We gotta burn the rest of 'em.
Undine in "Shutdown".
Terrans in "Crack in the Mirror".
5 episodes for "Second Wave".
13 episodes in that sector block and Kurland is out of control for 7 of them.
Plus a fleet action that got removed.
Kurland is literally in command less than 50% of the time.
If I could re-do that content, I'd scrap a big chunk of the Cardassian missions and go with a Mirror Terok Nor Adventure Zone like Nimbus. That would feel much more logical as a place where we'd be getting in firefights all the time with a DS9 map backdrop instead of having Kurland lose the station.
I'd probably also relocate the Cardassian colony missions. Merge Beta Ursae and Alpha Trianguli into one large sector block like Tau Dewa. Empty out the Zenas Expanse. (Can't get rid of it because there are Foundry hookups there.)
Thats actually a healthy take on revamping the Cardassian storyline... Half a Mirror-ark, and then make all the cardassian stories independend (sort of like the cardassian council asking for federation aid for a while, and you're the one going there).
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
He is TRIBBLE. I can tell you, if a male guy with skimpy clothes would be dancing on my desk, I wouldn't enjoy it much, and I would probably do the same face Quinn is doing. Thinking "I hope this idiot is not breaking my desk".
Ive already stated, as Admiral Tuvok has also reiterated; the Undine are a clever race. It is not unthinkable that Egg was a decoy to keep us from suspecting Quinn. As for why Cryptic would so something like this . STORY (he cries hopefully). Give us something more than Bad guys attacked destroyed the ESD but hey! We got a shiny new one so alls good!
Right, because Cryptic thinks that far ahead. :rolleyes: And if the Undine were a clever race, they would've figured out by now that A) it's frakking not us attacking them, and that they're wasting their time and forces trying to break through the Dyson spheres.
The Undine are a bunch of ****ing morons and Egg managing to stay undetected so long makes him the only actually competent infiltrator we've ever met.
And let's not forget, Quinn visited J'mpok, a man who keeps Lethean bodyguards around to catch Undine. If he was an Undine, he would've been unmasked at the armistice.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Comments
Was gonna support you.
But now......
STAY OFF OUR EPOHHS, STAY OFF OUR MARKS, STAY OFF THE ROMULAN LEGACY!!!!!
I hereby declare the Rebel Alliance to be born. I will be leading this one, already have a fitting name xD
Join the Deltas today!
would one billion marks buy your vote ?
system Lord Baal is dead
I'm going to make a Terry Pratchett reference so bear with me.
Sam Vimes would disagree.
Google it if you feel it necessary (I wouldn't), but the point is that even with competent leaders there's still work for the underlings to do. In fact the best work (ie. the stories with the best dramatic setup) come from where honcho A sends protagonist B on adventure C but precisely in the way that best applies the talents of B to the developing situation in C. That situation breaks, the hero plays the part of the hero to the very best of their ability, and you have a very good story. See. The Fifth Elephant, or *sigh* the Hobbit.
In STO what we have is merely the product of weak writing. We have all the elements of "competent" leader sending competent follower out into the plot but without the appropriate fine tuning of compounding characterizations and plot elements clicking nicely into place to build a more impressive structure than those constituent parts were by themselves. It's the right pattern but without the fine detail, as it were. We could still have that detail (ie. Quinn actually knows what he's doing [that is not just responding to stimuli by reflexively throwing you at it], he just needs someone to go do it, see. the Tuvok school of command) and still have an adventure, but it would take a little more effort in the writing.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
oh and tuvok is what in his 200's by now?
system Lord Baal is dead
Undine in "Shutdown".
Terrans in "Crack in the Mirror".
5 episodes for "Second Wave".
13 episodes in that sector block and Kurland is out of control for 7 of them.
Plus a fleet action that got removed.
Kurland is literally in command less than 50% of the time.
If I could re-do that content, I'd scrap a big chunk of the Cardassian missions and go with a Mirror Terok Nor Adventure Zone like Nimbus. That would feel much more logical as a place where we'd be getting in firefights all the time with a DS9 map backdrop instead of having Kurland lose the station.
I'd probably also relocate the Cardassian colony missions. Merge Beta Ursae and Alpha Trianguli into one large sector block like Tau Dewa. Empty out the Zenas Expanse. (Can't get rid of it because there are Foundry hookups there.)
he would be a much better choice then quinn and while your at it bring back sisko to take control of ds9 again
sisko is a god now and has better thing to do with his infinite time
system Lord Baal is dead
So why not dedicate a fraction of infinity to doing something productive!
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
he is he keep Bajor and the wormhole going
system Lord Baal is dead
Yes, and we know how well he's keeping those going. On the one hand maybe the next dominion fleet expelled will be from the future, that would certainly spice things up, and on the other let's just hope the next Kai can keep their third leg tucked in beneath the robe for most public occasions. :P
Some time in a finite linear existence would probably be good for him.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Actually, it is worth pointing out, that the final episode of DS9, Sisko did indicate an intention to return to a linear, corporeal (and I am assuming non "god-like") existence at some point. Of course given the non-linear nature of the Prophets, when that is is anyone's guess.
Though I believe the books do have him back in corporeal existence now. Still STO's timeline seems to suggest he is still among the Prophets as a non-corporeal, non-linear being.
20,000 years later
"Hey guys, I'mmmmm back! Whose up for some baseball!"
*The otters just look at him.*
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
The Undine are very tricky they use their morphing technique to confuse their prey and are known to use even their own kind as a diversion. Secondly, dont Undine some sort of physical contact, albeit brief, to enable themselves to mimic an intended target?
Who better to mimic than Quin? How better to distract us all from his replacement than staging an attack on his life? I demand mandatory genetic screening for all Starfleet personnel! The Undines ability to mimic is impressive, but it isnt absolute. Trace anomalies in any mimicked host should be enough to identify them. The issue is controlling a test to isolate and identify those anomalies, and in order to do that we will need to test Undine in their hosts form. They seem rather less than willing to cooperate and we can not scan for something we do not know if we dont know what were looking for or from whom.
Quin needs to be quarantined immediately and subdued to a battery of tests, as do any and all Starfleet personnel present on the station during the attack.
Seriously.
Let's go into the Wormhole and get Sisko back.
"We must maintain radio silence."
*Five seconds pass*
"KURLAND HERE!"
you sir will be ejected into space
Well that was what Cryptic was playing at during the mission. "Oh there's quinn, no he's a space monster. Is that really quinn on the comm?" The suspicion fell obviously on him but it was the little known engineer who was the infiltrator. You might still suspect another beard-wearing space monster is posing as the old man but to what purpose would Cryptic write that? Is there going to be another trump to play when the Undine attack ESD again (this time with feeling)? And in that case why allow Shon to use FED resources to save the KDF? As head honcho he certainly could have taken the position "no, we have to defend ourselves" with little if any suspicion that he had a third leg.
Possible: probably not so I'd put away the more invasive probes for the moment. You sir, on the other hand, have just bought yourself an hour with the lower transpectral interogulator! It would be a cunning plot indeed to question the species of a superior officer to cover up your own subversive actions!
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Subject me to any test you wish. I know I am me.
Ive already stated, as Admiral Tuvok has also reiterated; the Undine are a clever race. It is not unthinkable that Egg was a decoy to keep us from suspecting Quinn. As for why Cryptic would so something like this . STORY (he cries hopefully). Give us something more than Bad guys attacked destroyed the ESD but hey! We got a shiny new one so alls good!
Personally, Id like to have seen the restoration of the ESD take more time force players to use a broken and shattered ESD while the repairs are coming along, then surprise us with a new version. But thats just me.
As far as Shon, I disagree. What Shon did was no different than what Cpt Garrett did, saving the Klingons from a Romulan attack. That action established a rekindled peace between not only between the KDF and Starfleet, but a new peace between all three major powers of the Alpha Quadrant. Id say that was more than worth the loss of the Aquarius.
Garry: My God, what was happening to him?
MacReady: If it had more time to finish, it would have looked and sounded and acted just like Bennings!
Garry: I don't know what you're saying.
MacReady: That was one of those things out there trying to imitate him, Garry. C'mon.
Garry: MacReady, I know Bennings. I've known him for ten years. He's my friend.
MacReady: We gotta burn the rest of 'em.
Did you read? On his desk...right infront of him
...and he was staring at her bottom without any hint of any emotion on his face.
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
maybe he is part vulcan
system Lord Baal is dead
Thats actually a healthy take on revamping the Cardassian storyline... Half a Mirror-ark, and then make all the cardassian stories independend (sort of like the cardassian council asking for federation aid for a while, and you're the one going there).
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Was this the scandalous Harlot?
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1118651&highlight=quinn+abusing+power
The doctor from voyager found a way :P
Rank hath it's privileges.
And he's just the cool and collected type. That, or he's just seem a gazillion strippers doing the same thing over his many lifetimes.
Right, because Cryptic thinks that far ahead. :rolleyes: And if the Undine were a clever race, they would've figured out by now that A) it's frakking not us attacking them, and
The Undine are a bunch of ****ing morons and Egg managing to stay undetected so long makes him the only actually competent infiltrator we've ever met.
And let's not forget, Quinn visited J'mpok, a man who keeps Lethean bodyguards around to catch Undine. If he was an Undine, he would've been unmasked at the armistice.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/