I must have missed the episode where Picard turned Caitian. :rolleyes:
Well, every series but Enterprise had multiple species changes. Some through transporter accidents or warp malfunctions or viruses but the easy ones being surgical (and yet, the surgical ones were sophisticated enough to fool tricorders and transporters).
Spock and Kirk as Romulans, Picard and Data as Romulans, Riker and Troi as Mintakans, Riker as a Malcorian, Riker as a Talorian (Riker seems to hold the record for this kind of thing), the DS9 crew as Klingons, Neelix as a Ferengi...
Heck, if you get right down to it, Undine shapeshifting is the ultimate version of that since they aren't natural shapeshifters but have surgical implants that assign them one programmed form.
Whereas they only changed ships when a Captain was presumed dead or retired or a ship blew up. I can't think of one example of a living Captain changing commands.
But from a mechanical POV, owning ships (and owning multiple ships) appeals to the single alt player whereas species do not. So species have less selling power.
Well, every series but Enterprise had multiple species changes. Some through transporter accidents or warp malfunctions or viruses but the easy ones being surgical (and yet, the surgical ones were sophisticated enough to fool tricorders and transporters).
Spock and Kirk as Romulans, Picard and Data as Romulans, Riker and Troi as Mintakans, Riker as a Malcorian, Riker as a Talorian (Riker seems to hold the record for this kind of thing), the DS9 crew as Klingons, Neelix as a Ferengi...
In all fairness it is just a lot of really bad writing in all of those examples. It has nothing to do with sophistication. Take the episode where Troi is disguised as a Romulan Tal Shiar operative. Troi does not speak Romulan; which means the Universal Translator in her Combadge is translating her native tongue into Romulan for them to understand her - and vice-versa. No one notices that her mouth is making English words and Romulan is coming out of her chest? Or that her chest is broadcasting English to her from their Romulan.
.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
In all fairness it is just a lot of really bad writing in all of those examples. It has nothing to do with sophistication. Take the episode where Troi is disguised as a Romulan Tal Shiar operative. Troi does not speak Romulan; which means the Universal Translator in her Combadge is translating her native tongue into Romulan for them to understand her - and vice-versa. No one notices that her mouth is making English words and Romulan is coming out of her chest? Or that her chest is broadcasting English to her from their Romulan.
.
When a universal translator is used on a Klingon to make them sound like they're speaking English, their lips aren't moving in Klingonese like a bad dub. Universal translators have been used enough times like that that you pretty much have to assume that it's not a audio dub but actually rewires the brain of the person hearing it to see the person as speaking their language, down to lip movements.
Now, granted, there are interesting implications of that but nobody ever noticed the Voyager crew speaking like a bad dub when they used the universal translator on presumably over a hundred unknown species. Or at any point in the past 48 years of Trek. So I think you have to accept that nobody perceives the lip movement as being dubbed.
It clearly doesn't just repeat what you're saying in their language like a modern translation. It targets their brain and makes them think you're speaking their language.
When a universal translator is used on a Klingon to make them sound like they're speaking English, their lips aren't moving in Klingonese like a bad dub. Universal translators have been used enough times like that that you pretty much have to assume that it's not a audio dub but actually rewires the brain of the person hearing it to see the person as speaking their language, down to lip movements.
Now, granted, there are interesting implications of that but nobody ever noticed the Voyager crew speaking like a bad dub when they used the universal translator on presumably over a hundred unknown species. Or at any point in the past 48 years of Trek. So I think you have to accept that nobody perceives the lip movement as being dubbed.
It clearly doesn't just repeat what you're saying in their language like a modern translation. It targets their brain and makes them think you're speaking their language.
Do you remember in Undiscovered Country when Uhura and Chekov have to use a Klingon dictionary because they knew using the Universal Translator would be detected by the Klingons? It clearly does not rewire your brain to speak or understand the language.
The point is the UT is a writing convenience so that Trek writers did not need to make dozens of new languages - of course for shows like Game of Thrones they do that regularly. Like many Trek things, its logic falls apart if you think about it too much.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Universal translators are in the head, not the chest. Otherwise, no one would be able to talk to anyone whenever someone lost their combadge.
Oh, and only one side needs the translators. We see this numerous times when Our Heroes visit some primitive planet...and it's quite explicit in "Little Green Men".
Do you remember in Undiscovered Country when Uhura and Chekov have to use a Klingon dictionary because they knew using the Universal Translator would be detected by the Klingons? It clearly does not rewire your brain to speak or understand the language.
On the other hand, there are many occasions where the UT was used and nobody realized it.
Universal translators are in the head, not the chest. Otherwise, no one would be able to talk to anyone whenever someone lost their combadge.
Oh, and only one side needs the translators. We see this numerous times when Our Heroes visit some primitive planet...and it's quite explicit in "Little Green Men".
If you bother to check Memory Alpha you will see they are built into the Combadges in the TNG era.
The Ferengi version was inserted into their ear like a hearing aid - which is what you see failing in Little Green Men.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
It doesn't even have to be a faction, just give me an honest to God Cardassian with neck ridges and all. Make it for each faction, maybe with different uniform or tattoo options depending on which faction the Cardassian joines.
Next throw in some Cardassian weapons and a few Cardassian ships, including a weaker version of the Galor, so as not to TRIBBLE off those who have the lockbox Galor.
Maybe even go the Catain route and each faction has to buy the species and if you but it for both factions you get a bonus.
But for the love of Kahless give me a REAL Cardassian, not some alien wannabe!
On the other hand, there are many occasions where the UT was used and nobody realized it.
That gadget just isn't consistent.
I believe it was always recognized - each species encountered knew they were dealing with a UT. It was simply a hand-wave to convenience in the script.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I believe it was always recognized - each species encountered knew they were dealing with a UT. It was simply a hand-wave to convenience in the script.
Wasn't Archer down on some planet once, to mingle with the natives? And nobody realized he was translated. The UT even failed later on, afair.
Or that one time Troi was on that Romulan Warbird. How did she communicate without being recognized? Did she speak perfect Romulan? That was never mentioned before, after and even during that episode.
What about the time Sisko and friends infiltrated that Klingon space station to find/eliminate the changeling infiltrator? UT's obviously masked everyone's inability to speak Klingon (apart from Worf, of course).
Wasn't Archer down on some planet once, to mingle with the natives? And nobody realized he was translated. The UT even failed later on, afair.
Or that one time Troi was on that Romulan Warbird. How did she communicate without being recognized? Did she speak perfect Romulan? That was never mentioned before, after and even during that episode.
What about the time Sisko and friends infiltrated that Klingon space station to find/eliminate the changeling infiltrator? UT's obviously masked everyone's inability to speak Klingon (apart from Worf, of course).
So... how did that work?
You are right on top of things here. That was my point that started the whole discussion - even used one of those examples. Maybe you should read up a little?
The point is it should not work, but Trek writers are lazy and they allow things to happen rather then have to deal with the real problems that communication between species would bring. After all, there was a reason why Archer took Hoshi Sato - the best linguist in the service - with him.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
You are right on top of things here. That was my point that started the whole discussion - even used one of those examples. Maybe you should read up a little?
Hm. If you were aware, why did you say everybody was always aware they were dealing with a UT?
My whole point was that the thing is inconsistent. If that is your point, too... why are we even disagreeing?
You are right on top of things here. That was my point that started the whole discussion - even used one of those examples. Maybe you should read up a little?
The point is it should not work, but Trek writers are lazy and they allow things to happen rather then have to deal with the real problems that communication between species would bring. After all, there was a reason why Archer took Hoshi Sato - the best linguist in the service - with him.
Also.... many Starfleet officers ARE fluent in several languages. Picard, for example, is known to have skill in several languages, so much so that he was chosen to deliver a formal greeting to the Jarada.
I keep thinking there was some method of people learning a language without doing it the hard way.... but... not sure. Like when Riker had to learn the form of sign language used by that deaf ambassador... or maybe that was just something Data did. *looks it up* Yeah that was Data.
Bynars would also be interesting to play. 2 toons for one captain?
They could have a "fire at will" trait that would allow one of them to aim at another target a certain % of the time.
Well, every series but Enterprise had multiple species changes. Some through transporter accidents or warp malfunctions or viruses but the easy ones being surgical (and yet, the surgical ones were sophisticated enough to fool tricorders and transporters).
Spock and Kirk as Romulans, Picard and Data as Romulans, Riker and Troi as Mintakans, Riker as a Malcorian, Riker as a Talorian (Riker seems to hold the record for this kind of thing), the DS9 crew as Klingons, Neelix as a Ferengi...
Heck, if you get right down to it, Undine shapeshifting is the ultimate version of that since they aren't natural shapeshifters but have surgical implants that assign them one programmed form.
Whereas they only changed ships when a Captain was presumed dead or retired or a ship blew up. I can't think of one example of a living Captain changing commands.
But from a mechanical POV, owning ships (and owning multiple ships) appeals to the single alt player whereas species do not. So species have less selling power.
I think you're mistaking Star Trek contemporary plastic surgery with species changes. Sisko was changed to appear Klingon, not have a Klingon's physiology or the strength of a Klingon, etc. That's not a species change at all. Same goes for the lot of the examples you've given.
Apart from several incidents, and I underline incidents like Janeway and Paris going lizard (my gosh the bad writing in that one) or for ex. when Harry Kim's friend (whatshername) turned Kobali, there are no real species changes in Star Trek.
So no, species changing is not a common thing in ST at all, it's not even a thing.
Denobulan would have been great. Especially if we can do this. Denobulans should have been in from the start. They should have been here instead of Pakleds. Why are Pakleds even playable? One of the dumbest races in Star Trek.
Occampa and Kazon are most likely coming with the Delta Quadrant expansion. I'm looking forward too Occampa myself. Kes may have been lame, but they have interesting telepathic and telekinetic powers.
Denobulan would have been great. Especially if we can do this. Denobulans should have been in from the start. They should have been here instead of Pakleds. Why are Pakleds even playable? One of the dumbest races in Star Trek.
Pakleds are in the game because several years ago some fans on the forum thought it would be fun to role-play them in the game. So one of the Devs made it his free-time side project to get them added; and Cryptic put them in the C-Store.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
On the UT, guys. TNG was decades after Undiscovered Country. Clearly the design improved. Also, with prior to ST6 excamples, take into account the perceptive abilities of certain species, and whether they have the experience to distinguish between a universal translator accent and just someone sounding like that aren't from their part of the country.
My vote on playables would be Denobulan, Deltan, and/or Xindi for known Federation species we can't play. And Suliban or Acamarians for the Romulan. Not sure what could be added to the Klingon Faction.
I also like the idea of Ocampa and Voth if they bring in the Delta Quadrant species.
You know what would work in ST lore and potential in game? If in addition to Alien they had a hybrid option, where you make a character from two playable species you select and get half the species trait from each.
It would probably take some effort to develop, but half-human half-alien officers are a tradition in Star Trek.
imo i dont think we going to see another faction ever or for a very long time and it has been said if and when they doing another faction it will follow the path of the romulans so best to hope for add on species like one did before for fed and kdf
imo i dont think we going to see another faction ever or for a very long time and it has been said if and when they doing another faction it will follow the path of the romulans so best to hope for add on species like one did before for fed and kdf
one way to make a new faction is use the new link as a base and create a whole new faction this way cryptic would have a blank slate to create from.
and they could go the same way as the romulans maybe even take the cardis along for the ride kinda ike how the remans are with the romulans.
I think you're mistaking Star Trek contemporary plastic surgery with species changes. Sisko was changed to appear Klingon, not have a Klingon's physiology or the strength of a Klingon, etc. That's not a species change at all. Same goes for the lot of the examples you've given.
Apart from several incidents, and I underline incidents like Janeway and Paris going lizard (my gosh the bad writing in that one) or for ex. when Harry Kim's friend (whatshername) turned Kobali, there are no real species changes in Star Trek.
So no, species changing is not a common thing in ST at all, it's not even a thing.
There was also the ep where Geordi turned into a frog thing....
imo i dont think we going to see another faction ever or for a very long time and it has been said if and when they doing another faction it will follow the path of the romulans so best to hope for add on species like one did before for fed and kdf
Probably a good bet unless there's a massive increase in player count for some reason. That new faction however probably isn't the best place to look for new playable species. We already have fed and KDF aligned borg and we have all the necessary bits for someone to play as a cardassian (including the ship).
Now I'm not saying that these are appropriate substitutes for a new mini-faction but in terms of species these wouldn't be adding that much to the game, not compared to, for example, adding in the Talaxians (FED), Kazon (KDF), Heirarchy (Rom) with the next full season release since each would require entirely new species content.
As for non delta quadrant species (which you could probably make an occasion for during a .5 season release), how about....
Fed
Deltans (just force hair to none and enable the Orion traits)
Denobulans
Xindi - Primate, Sloth, and/or Reptile (I won't dare to hope for insectoid)
Efrosians (Fed President in ST6)
KDF
Yridians (justification - conscripts)
Klingon. Yes I know the KDF already has them but they could do with a massive customization option update.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Comments
Well, every series but Enterprise had multiple species changes. Some through transporter accidents or warp malfunctions or viruses but the easy ones being surgical (and yet, the surgical ones were sophisticated enough to fool tricorders and transporters).
Spock and Kirk as Romulans, Picard and Data as Romulans, Riker and Troi as Mintakans, Riker as a Malcorian, Riker as a Talorian (Riker seems to hold the record for this kind of thing), the DS9 crew as Klingons, Neelix as a Ferengi...
Heck, if you get right down to it, Undine shapeshifting is the ultimate version of that since they aren't natural shapeshifters but have surgical implants that assign them one programmed form.
Whereas they only changed ships when a Captain was presumed dead or retired or a ship blew up. I can't think of one example of a living Captain changing commands.
But from a mechanical POV, owning ships (and owning multiple ships) appeals to the single alt player whereas species do not. So species have less selling power.
.
When a universal translator is used on a Klingon to make them sound like they're speaking English, their lips aren't moving in Klingonese like a bad dub. Universal translators have been used enough times like that that you pretty much have to assume that it's not a audio dub but actually rewires the brain of the person hearing it to see the person as speaking their language, down to lip movements.
Now, granted, there are interesting implications of that but nobody ever noticed the Voyager crew speaking like a bad dub when they used the universal translator on presumably over a hundred unknown species. Or at any point in the past 48 years of Trek. So I think you have to accept that nobody perceives the lip movement as being dubbed.
It clearly doesn't just repeat what you're saying in their language like a modern translation. It targets their brain and makes them think you're speaking their language.
The point is the UT is a writing convenience so that Trek writers did not need to make dozens of new languages - of course for shows like Game of Thrones they do that regularly. Like many Trek things, its logic falls apart if you think about it too much.
Oh, and only one side needs the translators. We see this numerous times when Our Heroes visit some primitive planet...and it's quite explicit in "Little Green Men".
On the other hand, there are many occasions where the UT was used and nobody realized it.
That gadget just isn't consistent.
The Ferengi version was inserted into their ear like a hearing aid - which is what you see failing in Little Green Men.
It doesn't even have to be a faction, just give me an honest to God Cardassian with neck ridges and all. Make it for each faction, maybe with different uniform or tattoo options depending on which faction the Cardassian joines.
Next throw in some Cardassian weapons and a few Cardassian ships, including a weaker version of the Galor, so as not to TRIBBLE off those who have the lockbox Galor.
Maybe even go the Catain route and each faction has to buy the species and if you but it for both factions you get a bonus.
But for the love of Kahless give me a REAL Cardassian, not some alien wannabe!
Wasn't Archer down on some planet once, to mingle with the natives? And nobody realized he was translated. The UT even failed later on, afair.
Or that one time Troi was on that Romulan Warbird. How did she communicate without being recognized? Did she speak perfect Romulan? That was never mentioned before, after and even during that episode.
What about the time Sisko and friends infiltrated that Klingon space station to find/eliminate the changeling infiltrator? UT's obviously masked everyone's inability to speak Klingon (apart from Worf, of course).
So... how did that work?
The point is it should not work, but Trek writers are lazy and they allow things to happen rather then have to deal with the real problems that communication between species would bring. After all, there was a reason why Archer took Hoshi Sato - the best linguist in the service - with him.
Hm. If you were aware, why did you say everybody was always aware they were dealing with a UT?
My whole point was that the thing is inconsistent. If that is your point, too... why are we even disagreeing?
I keep thinking there was some method of people learning a language without doing it the hard way.... but... not sure. Like when Riker had to learn the form of sign language used by that deaf ambassador... or maybe that was just something Data did. *looks it up* Yeah that was Data.
My character Tsin'xing
They could have a "fire at will" trait that would allow one of them to aim at another target a certain % of the time.
Bah. Beat me to it.
I think you're mistaking Star Trek contemporary plastic surgery with species changes. Sisko was changed to appear Klingon, not have a Klingon's physiology or the strength of a Klingon, etc. That's not a species change at all. Same goes for the lot of the examples you've given.
Apart from several incidents, and I underline incidents like Janeway and Paris going lizard (my gosh the bad writing in that one) or for ex. when Harry Kim's friend (whatshername) turned Kobali, there are no real species changes in Star Trek.
So no, species changing is not a common thing in ST at all, it's not even a thing.
Yeah, maybe in 2018. We finally will get a fully romulan fraction completed.
Occampa and Kazon are most likely coming with the Delta Quadrant expansion. I'm looking forward too Occampa myself. Kes may have been lame, but they have interesting telepathic and telekinetic powers.
Il be okay to play Q with all their abilites...
My vote on playables would be Denobulan, Deltan, and/or Xindi for known Federation species we can't play. And Suliban or Acamarians for the Romulan. Not sure what could be added to the Klingon Faction.
I also like the idea of Ocampa and Voth if they bring in the Delta Quadrant species.
Why should you? A year in-game takes more than 4 in the real world. That gives you a good 36 years to play that character.
Assimilated Gorn. What could gorn wrong?
It would probably take some effort to develop, but half-human half-alien officers are a tradition in Star Trek.
system Lord Baal is dead
one way to make a new faction is use the new link as a base and create a whole new faction this way cryptic would have a blank slate to create from.
and they could go the same way as the romulans maybe even take the cardis along for the ride kinda ike how the remans are with the romulans.
My character Tsin'xing
Probably a good bet unless there's a massive increase in player count for some reason. That new faction however probably isn't the best place to look for new playable species. We already have fed and KDF aligned borg and we have all the necessary bits for someone to play as a cardassian (including the ship).
Now I'm not saying that these are appropriate substitutes for a new mini-faction but in terms of species these wouldn't be adding that much to the game, not compared to, for example, adding in the Talaxians (FED), Kazon (KDF), Heirarchy (Rom) with the next full season release since each would require entirely new species content.
As for non delta quadrant species (which you could probably make an occasion for during a .5 season release), how about....
Fed
Deltans (just force hair to none and enable the Orion traits)
Denobulans
Xindi - Primate, Sloth, and/or Reptile (I won't dare to hope for insectoid)
Efrosians (Fed President in ST6)
KDF
Yridians (justification - conscripts)
Klingon. Yes I know the KDF already has them but they could do with a massive customization option update.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Xindi
Skorr
Aenar
Anticans
Arcturians
Selay
Edosian
Efrosians
El-Aurian
Elaysian
Deltans
Denobulans
Iotians
Exocomps
The Robots from "I Mudd"
Eymorgs
Sheliak
I would also like to play as one of the many floating balls of gas that were encountered. That would be different.