Brel and BOPs in general are outdated thanks to powercreep. Beyond the weak hull, paper thin shields, ineffective torp damage issues. The beamfaw spam from both sides rips BOPs apart in matches. Add to that GW spam with the GW doff and all the fed science ships and the bop is getting very rare in the actual queues. This doesn't even affect the Roms that much thanks to singularity jumping. Its like BOPs are paying the price for having Roms in game with every ship battle cloaking. I still fly BOPs for kicks but I would honestly do 500% better with even a gimpy qin raptor nowadays. Right now the game favors durability and bops have none.
In the end they lost money by giving the the 4th tac slot to the fugly skeleton bop. The 4th eng slot on fleet B'rel has no value to me, so one less fleet ship sold.
And I'm not the only one who sees no reason to "upgrade" from the B'rel R. Both ships have the iconic appearance and both have three tac console slots. Six eng/sci consoles are sufficient for my universal consoles. Tyvm.
At least the impulse mod could be 0.22 or better.
Brel and BOPs in general are outdated thanks to powercreep. Beyond the weak hull, paper thin shields, ineffective torp damage issues. The beamfaw spam from both sides rips BOPs apart in matches. Add to that GW spam with the GW doff and all the fed science ships and the bop is getting very rare in the actual queues. This doesn't even affect the Roms that much thanks to singularity jumping. Its like BOPs are paying the price for having Roms in game with every ship battle cloaking. I still fly BOPs for kicks but I would honestly do 500% better with even a gimpy qin raptor nowadays. Right now the game favors durability and bops have none.
Birds of Prey, alongside all the original, older Fed & KDF ships have fallen on the wayside of Power Creep. Forgive my "nostalgia" but I feel like going into STO History mode again.
Before the Fleet Ship System came about, I'd say it was pretty equal. It was also during this time that BOPs were at their height of their Reign of Terror on Feds. They feared nothing more than a decloaking attack from a BOP. But we had to be wary of Fed Sci Vessels at the time (Sci was much more deceptively powerful in these early days... Escorts hated Science).
When the Fleet Ship System came about, Fed Escorts took front & center stage. 5 TAC Fleet Defiant & Prometheus made the entire KDF Raptor & Destroyer line flying deathtraps. Steamrunners and the original FPE were solid choices for the Feds. Raptors were a death sentence, Nausicaan Destroyers (Fleet Scourge, Guramba) died off due to being obsolete. The BOPs had to be clever to survive, but the Battlecruisers & Carriers still held the line firmly. Fed Escorts were firmly kings in this period. This was also the day of "Escorts Online." BOP captains were still quite viable in their ships but the margin for error grew even smaller due to all the high powered Fed Escorts. However, in Arena matches, proper Hit & Run tactics of a BOP was a hindrance to a team. Instead of something like a 5 vs 5 match, the dangers and damage BOPs faced always drove them off to recover, leaving the rest of the team behind and making most of the match really 4 vs 5. I also recall my Fleet PVP team doing an Arena match at this time... 1 Kar'Fi, 3 BOPs, 1 Vor'Cha Retrofit. The heat was way too much for the BOPs and the "Run" part of Hit & Run took to long due to having to recover. In essence, the match I recall was typically more of a 3 vs 5 since it was too dangerous for the BOPs to linger around. I felt terrible seeing our Vor'Cha and most esp. Kar'Fi player taking all the heat. That was the last time we brought more than 1 BOP to any PVP team by our fleet. If at all.
LOR and the Romulan Republic releases. Every faction ship outside the Roms was made completely and unquestionably obsolete and irrelevant. Where Fed & KDF ship stats tended to have some sort of compromise, Warbirds had none and were completely OP. Esp. when combined with the OP BOFF traits. The status quo between the Fed & KDF lineup is still the same, only now the Roms were made blatantly and completely OP over all of them. If you had no cloaks as an Escort, you were dead unless you were flying a Bugship or some really fancy lockbox/lobi ship. The game was still "Escorts Online" and Warbirds ensured that would remain so (almost all are TAC ships). With the proliferation of Battle Cloaks, which was once only found on BOPs, the combination of Rom BOFF Traits, Warbirds... the BOPs became completely obsolete unless flying some gimmick, support build. You had no endurance in a fight. Everything was moving a lot faster (EPTE, A2D, etc). BOPs had twice the cloak cooldown timers that a decent Warbird build had. The era of BOPs was over, and that long flickering, barely burning light was finally extinguished.
By the time of S8, the Voth and what we're at right now. Cruisers are now very much back in the mix of being viable ships instead of being flying Target Drones. Feds by now get Battlecruiser access (Avenger). Warbirds are still the Apex Predator of this game, but Cruisers are viably good. I would say the older mainstay of the Fed Escorts, Fleet Defiant & Prometheus, have dropped off. Non-cloaking Escorts that aren't something like the JHAS are suffering quite a bit. The corpses of KDF Raptors and Destroyers have long since decomposed in their graves. BOPs are still obsolete. For the KDF faction ships, Battlecruisers & Carriers are still the only viable choices. The TAC-heavy side of the house is completely out of the game and irrelevant.
the saddest thing that's ever happened while flying my brel, is as a joke i built a speedboat, beamboat brel. was meant to be a prank, but somehow earned me first place in Crystaline entity. i dont know how, or why, probably with the dozens of heals i decided to use. somehow, i took first place. in a brel. without a torpedo used at all. with a fail group, i once got 3rd using a full transphasic torpedo build on the same character.
i dont even. i guess heals out do damage, but all versions of my brel use alot of hull heals (miracle worker, engineering team, hazard emitters etc.) so i cant imagine how my beam boat did better then my torp boat, on a ship meant for torps.
if this ship gets anything, i think it should get a console that gives +50% shield penetration to all kinetic weapons. i understand this will make some builds extremely OP. oh well, big deal. the scimitar can be OP, hell i've seen a rear admiral patrol escort ROFLstomp a full tanki recluse in PVP. anyone can make a ship OP. just because 1 person will make the ship an insta killer doesnt mean you shouldnt buff the ship for the other 5000 people that play this game.
if this ship gets anything, i think it should get a console that gives +50% shield penetration to all kinetic weapons. i understand this will make some builds extremely OP.
Torps are a whole nother can of worms. As has been pointed out time and time again, Cryptic needs to drop the shields stops 70-80% of torp damage. It was dumb in the beginning and is even dumber today now that most ships can outrun torps.
Targetable High Yield like plasma never reach a target except on accident or if 3 GWs were spammed on the a target already pinned by two TBs. Torp Spread is better than HY for all torpedos because TS doesn't miss and fires all at once. Meanwhile, high yield quantums fire multiple torps one by one and require that the target stay within the firing arc for every single torp.
I have long since lost track of how many HY3 quantums only fired one torp instead of all 4 because the target scooted out of my firing arc. With the ludicrous amount of shields, heals, rez, and rep stuff, shield being down long enough from when torps are fired to when they connect is nearly impossible at anything outside point blank which on a lot torpedos hits the guy who shot the torpedo with feedback explosions.
Seriously Omega kinetic shearing is not cutting it Cryptic, rethink torpedoes completely. Stop trying to make them look pretty and make them functional in PvP. Speeding them up would help tremendously. BTW cannons should be sped up as well. Make ordinance faster than tgts that aren't at full impulse for the love of god. It's silly watching cannon salvos chase around a target across the map. Beams don't have this problem :rolleyes:
My BoP can solo a whole side of CSE. It takes me longer to do it, but, I do it. (See sig for build)
It's NOT a tank. If you're trying to fly a BoP like a cruiser, you deserve your death,... and many more.
BoP's have that special something often missing from many if not most ships in this whole game,... FUN! They are FUN to fly. They're iconic, and if flown right, their down right nasty! I love my B'rel.
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
To: Bo'Boq
From: KDF Equipment command, Ty'gokor shipyard engineering and design department.
RE: B'rel retrofit issues.
Your inability to understand and utilize the design for it's purpose is not the fault of the engineers who designed the ship, nor of the workers who built it. They are your personal defects. We get this complaint a lot from spoiled, lazy and ignorant house scions better suited temperamentally for service as cannon-fodder in heavy cruiser classes.
The mistake is not in the design of the ship-many fine warriors have been very successful and effective when commanding this class, your inability to succeed is not a fault of the equipment, it is the fault of your trainers, your parents, your ancestors, and yourself.
Please submit a request for transfer to a vessel more in keeping with your abilities as a warrior and officer, we recommend something slow, such as a bridge position on a Bortasque, where you will no longer be able to get low-ranked but talented warriors killed by being a P'taq in a ship whose design and role you clearly have no idea how to handle.
Signed:
renwl' Karkakaq,
Engineering Lead 2nd shift,
Ty'gokor shipyard.
ROFLMAO - OH this made my night! heheheheh
*STO*Its mission: To destroy strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations... and then kill them, to boldly annihilate what no one has annihilated before!
Comments
And I'm not the only one who sees no reason to "upgrade" from the B'rel R. Both ships have the iconic appearance and both have three tac console slots. Six eng/sci consoles are sufficient for my universal consoles. Tyvm.
At least the impulse mod could be 0.22 or better.
Birds of Prey, alongside all the original, older Fed & KDF ships have fallen on the wayside of Power Creep. Forgive my "nostalgia" but I feel like going into STO History mode again.
Before the Fleet Ship System came about, I'd say it was pretty equal. It was also during this time that BOPs were at their height of their Reign of Terror on Feds. They feared nothing more than a decloaking attack from a BOP. But we had to be wary of Fed Sci Vessels at the time (Sci was much more deceptively powerful in these early days... Escorts hated Science).
When the Fleet Ship System came about, Fed Escorts took front & center stage. 5 TAC Fleet Defiant & Prometheus made the entire KDF Raptor & Destroyer line flying deathtraps. Steamrunners and the original FPE were solid choices for the Feds. Raptors were a death sentence, Nausicaan Destroyers (Fleet Scourge, Guramba) died off due to being obsolete. The BOPs had to be clever to survive, but the Battlecruisers & Carriers still held the line firmly. Fed Escorts were firmly kings in this period. This was also the day of "Escorts Online." BOP captains were still quite viable in their ships but the margin for error grew even smaller due to all the high powered Fed Escorts. However, in Arena matches, proper Hit & Run tactics of a BOP was a hindrance to a team. Instead of something like a 5 vs 5 match, the dangers and damage BOPs faced always drove them off to recover, leaving the rest of the team behind and making most of the match really 4 vs 5. I also recall my Fleet PVP team doing an Arena match at this time... 1 Kar'Fi, 3 BOPs, 1 Vor'Cha Retrofit. The heat was way too much for the BOPs and the "Run" part of Hit & Run took to long due to having to recover. In essence, the match I recall was typically more of a 3 vs 5 since it was too dangerous for the BOPs to linger around. I felt terrible seeing our Vor'Cha and most esp. Kar'Fi player taking all the heat. That was the last time we brought more than 1 BOP to any PVP team by our fleet. If at all.
LOR and the Romulan Republic releases. Every faction ship outside the Roms was made completely and unquestionably obsolete and irrelevant. Where Fed & KDF ship stats tended to have some sort of compromise, Warbirds had none and were completely OP. Esp. when combined with the OP BOFF traits. The status quo between the Fed & KDF lineup is still the same, only now the Roms were made blatantly and completely OP over all of them. If you had no cloaks as an Escort, you were dead unless you were flying a Bugship or some really fancy lockbox/lobi ship. The game was still "Escorts Online" and Warbirds ensured that would remain so (almost all are TAC ships). With the proliferation of Battle Cloaks, which was once only found on BOPs, the combination of Rom BOFF Traits, Warbirds... the BOPs became completely obsolete unless flying some gimmick, support build. You had no endurance in a fight. Everything was moving a lot faster (EPTE, A2D, etc). BOPs had twice the cloak cooldown timers that a decent Warbird build had. The era of BOPs was over, and that long flickering, barely burning light was finally extinguished.
By the time of S8, the Voth and what we're at right now. Cruisers are now very much back in the mix of being viable ships instead of being flying Target Drones. Feds by now get Battlecruiser access (Avenger). Warbirds are still the Apex Predator of this game, but Cruisers are viably good. I would say the older mainstay of the Fed Escorts, Fleet Defiant & Prometheus, have dropped off. Non-cloaking Escorts that aren't something like the JHAS are suffering quite a bit. The corpses of KDF Raptors and Destroyers have long since decomposed in their graves. BOPs are still obsolete. For the KDF faction ships, Battlecruisers & Carriers are still the only viable choices. The TAC-heavy side of the house is completely out of the game and irrelevant.
i dont even. i guess heals out do damage, but all versions of my brel use alot of hull heals (miracle worker, engineering team, hazard emitters etc.) so i cant imagine how my beam boat did better then my torp boat, on a ship meant for torps.
if this ship gets anything, i think it should get a console that gives +50% shield penetration to all kinetic weapons. i understand this will make some builds extremely OP. oh well, big deal. the scimitar can be OP, hell i've seen a rear admiral patrol escort ROFLstomp a full tanki recluse in PVP. anyone can make a ship OP. just because 1 person will make the ship an insta killer doesnt mean you shouldnt buff the ship for the other 5000 people that play this game.
Torps are a whole nother can of worms. As has been pointed out time and time again, Cryptic needs to drop the shields stops 70-80% of torp damage. It was dumb in the beginning and is even dumber today now that most ships can outrun torps.
Targetable High Yield like plasma never reach a target except on accident or if 3 GWs were spammed on the a target already pinned by two TBs. Torp Spread is better than HY for all torpedos because TS doesn't miss and fires all at once. Meanwhile, high yield quantums fire multiple torps one by one and require that the target stay within the firing arc for every single torp.
I have long since lost track of how many HY3 quantums only fired one torp instead of all 4 because the target scooted out of my firing arc. With the ludicrous amount of shields, heals, rez, and rep stuff, shield being down long enough from when torps are fired to when they connect is nearly impossible at anything outside point blank which on a lot torpedos hits the guy who shot the torpedo with feedback explosions.
Seriously Omega kinetic shearing is not cutting it Cryptic, rethink torpedoes completely. Stop trying to make them look pretty and make them functional in PvP. Speeding them up would help tremendously. BTW cannons should be sped up as well. Make ordinance faster than tgts that aren't at full impulse for the love of god. It's silly watching cannon salvos chase around a target across the map. Beams don't have this problem :rolleyes:
My BoP can solo a whole side of CSE. It takes me longer to do it, but, I do it. (See sig for build)
It's NOT a tank. If you're trying to fly a BoP like a cruiser, you deserve your death,... and many more.
BoP's have that special something often missing from many if not most ships in this whole game,... FUN! They are FUN to fly. They're iconic, and if flown right, their down right nasty! I love my B'rel.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
ROFLMAO - OH this made my night! heheheheh