As many have posted, the 5km rule went out the window awhile back so the question is -
Why are you forcing people to follow your rules in a game?
Seriously I've done thousands of runs of every STF there is since they came into the game, and there is a reason why I don't do elites outside of a small few group of friends, people seem to think a) I'm an idiot that hasn't played STF's since they came out and b) I don't need to be hit with a baseball bat because I'm not following THEIR rules.
Kinda why pugs can be fun! No rules, everyone just goes and if it gets screwed up you just blame it on the pug hehe.
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
It doesnt matter how far away you are. That was done away with a patch, DURR.
I think she cloaks if she gets spiked too much, and of course noobs jump to the assumption its because you are too close to it, and not because you just took down half of its health in 3 seconds.
Sorta... As I said before:
Donatra - aka the Scimitar NPC in general (Sela, punks in fleet alert) have a random number generator based cloaking system/AI.
The odds are slanted to "rarely" cloak when the focus of her attention is farther than 5km away from her, and "most likely" cloak when the focus of attention is within 5km of her.
Let's say (as we'll most likely never be given the hard numbers), that Donatra cloaks with a 85% frequency checked once every 30 seconds, if the focus of her aggro is within 5km. Because it's a percentage chance, we go to the RNG. You know, that same thing that kept people from getting the STF sets after 200 runs in the pre-rep days? The same thing that doesn't give people lockbox ships after 1,000s of lockboxes but then gives joe-bob 5 ships in 6 boxes?
Well, a run where the aggro-grabbing tank sits within 5km for 2 minutes as people blast on a not-cloaking Donatra? RNG gave you the "5 ships in 6 lockbox" type result.
Running everyone at 5.5km and Donatra cloaks? Again, RNG doing it's thing. Donatra does still have a chance to cloak at any point in the mission, even if the target is outside the 5km range.
Therefore, the "5km" rule is not a 100% guarantee of behavior, unlike the trigger lines in Infected Ground. However, the rule does state/describe the proper conditions necessary to create the best chances for a quick kill...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
The cloaking is not normally a problem I find, but on occasion I have been in a long fight with her and have no idea why she cloaks so much.
From observation it seems that if the main aggro grabber is within 5km then she will probably but not always cloak. If there's lots of low aggro ships hitting her she ignores them.
As sure fire way to get her to cloak though that I've found is using grav wells on her together with high dps. Seems to upset her more than most things.
Annoyingly though she can cloak when in a grav well, which should be impossible. It's one example of the npcs ignoring rules that we have to play to.
I have found using a hargh-peng torp is good for tracking her as it emits a purple cloud even when she's cloaked. And the radiation explosion after 15 secs happens even when she is cloaked.
The 5km rule does exist...I've tested many many times and out of respect for bort I will continue to give the benefit of the doubt and continue to test.
The most prevalent effect to cause the cloak is alpha striking within 2km.
If your about to rail her up close. She will buzz off...90% guaranteed
I must agree with this post.
I have noticed when we all keep our distance she cloaks less often then when players attack her at very close range.
I was in a PUG group with 4 Sci ships and she kept cloaking more often when players would get real close to her even though the Sci ships kept spamming Gravity Wells at her.
The only way we were able to beat her was when I told the others to stay away from her and attack from 7-10km away.
Well it took some time until they got tiered and we lost one Sci ship due to frustration that we all finally kept our distance and slowly but surely she started to cloak less often and we were able to defeat her.
One could say it was just one BIG coincidence that when we kept our distance she cloaked a lot less but whos to know.
Donatra - aka the Scimitar NPC in general (Sela, punks in fleet alert) have a random number generator based cloaking system/AI.
The odds are slanted to "rarely" cloak when the focus of her attention is farther than 5km away from her, and "most likely" cloak when the focus of attention is within 5km of her.
Let's say (as we'll most likely never be given the hard numbers), that Donatra cloaks with a 85% frequency checked once every 30 seconds, if the focus of her aggro is within 5km. Because it's a percentage chance, we go to the RNG. You know, that same thing that kept people from getting the STF sets after 200 runs in the pre-rep days? The same thing that doesn't give people lockbox ships after 1,000s of lockboxes but then gives joe-bob 5 ships in 6 boxes?
Well, a run where the aggro-grabbing tank sits within 5km for 2 minutes as people blast on a not-cloaking Donatra? RNG gave you the "5 ships in 6 lockbox" type result.
Running everyone at 5.5km and Donatra cloaks? Again, RNG doing it's thing. Donatra does still have a chance to cloak at any point in the mission, even if the target is outside the 5km range.
Therefore, the "5km" rule is not a 100% guarantee of behavior, unlike the trigger lines in Infected Ground. However, the rule does state/describe the proper conditions necessary to create the best chances for a quick kill...
I really think you are seeing things into the cloaking mechanism.
I have been doing KASE a lot lately, and honestly I found her cloaking totally random.
Once she cloaks all the time, at other times I could literally sit beside her, and take down more than half of her health points before she cloaked.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
And here's today's report on the issue, just happened 5 minutes ago.
My team is doing KASE and Donatra is permacloaking.
Because two of the team are in escorts are rushing her at point blank range.
Followed by an escort wannabe (Bortas cruiser I think) who is doing the same.
The player issues a warning to stay out of 5km and is duly ignored.
5 minutes later, they decide to just leave.
That's how strongly this player feels about the rule, that they were willing to leave the match shortly after engaging Donatra the the teams' lack of ability to follow instructions regarding the 5km rule.
So the escort wannabe orders everyone to close to point blank range and gives me aggro because I'm continually having to evade Donatra's constant thalaron blasts.
10 minutes later, I've had enough of this nonsense, add the escort wannabe to ignore and prepare to mapleave.
Only to be beaten to it as the escort wannabee ragequits.
Now try to explain that away.
Personally, I've had enough of this behavior in KASE.
Not following the 5k rule, that I can live with, even though I find it personally irksome.
What's irritiating me is that lately the majority of aggressive players have been encountered in KASE.
Therefore, I think it's time to stay away from this STF if it involves PUGs.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
It's just been changed... getting closer than 5 km makes her nervous and more likely to hit the cloak button. However, as some others have said it, it is random. There's two cloaks...
1. I think I'll get into position and use my thalorn generators
2. I don't like this pervert riding my butt...
Because you have no idea where she is going to spawn, naturally.
I can't speak for other players, but when I discover I'm in the middle of a Thalaron cone, I hit Evasive Maneuvers and get the heck out of there before I'm oneshotted.
Which doesn't leave a lot of time for fighting back, especially if she cloaks immediately after firing her Thalaron pulse.
I sincerely doubt any group of players can one shot Donatra at point blank range before she cloaks again.
And if you can, awesome slow clap for you!
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
They should seriously fix it so that it become 10km rule. As a Carrier flyer, there's no way I will tell pets to stay out of my way, and with Cryptic adding Frigates and Pets left and right WITHOUT fixing the AI, you may as well as forget PUG.
I've had Stf runs many times where she keeps cloaking even when everyone is 8-9 km away so that's no hard and fast rule anymore, it may increase slightly the chance to cloak but doesn't assure it. on the other hand I've done many Stf when my team mates have been 2 km away and she hasn't cloaked once, and she's gone down in seconds. So it comes down to a chance toss-up.
Because you have no idea where she is going to spawn, naturally.
I can't speak for other players, but when I discover I'm in the middle of a Thalaron cone, I hit Evasive Maneuvers and get the heck out of there before I'm oneshotted.
Which doesn't leave a lot of time for fighting back, especially if she cloaks immediately after firing her Thalaron pulse.
I sincerely doubt any group of players can one shot Donatra at point blank range before she cloaks again.
And if you can, awesome slow clap for you!
There's a little game I like to play called "follow the torps".
I evasive out of the cone and then on to her side or rear, depending on which if any has lower shields.
And it is a piece of TRIBBLE to knackle her after one decloak if everyone does it. No one will manage to break her max hit points with one hit though.
They should seriously fix it so that it become 10km rule. As a Carrier flyer, there's no way I will tell pets to stay out of my way, and with Cryptic adding Frigates and Pets left and right WITHOUT fixing the AI, you may as well as forget PUG.
That's why I insist players with pets use the Recall command, because it puts the pets inside the hanger bays and removes them from gameplay.
Unfortunately, your average PUG will not listen to requests, so I just gave up saying anything at all.
But yes, you are right, the commands are incredibly poor.
I want greater control, but I don't think Cryptic has that as a priority.
To be brutually honest, if you're so dependent on your pets to inflict damage, then your ship build is a poor one.
Your ship should be capable of taking out enemy vessels on it's own.
The pets are for bonus damage, they're not intended to be the primary source of damage.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
To be brutually honest, if you're so dependent on your pets to inflict damage, then your ship build is a poor one.
Your ship should be capable of taking out enemy vessels on it's own.
The pets are for bonus damage, they're not intended to be the primary source of damage.
It's a 2 hangar carrier with frigate. If it's HEC I can perfectly understand, but for the full carriers, unless you are flying a Kar'fi, they turn and move worse than Galaxy or D'D... but with only 3/3 weapons. Even if one go all beams, majority of damage actually come from pets.
EDIT: In fact that is what make pet master class special even in other MMO: Rely on AI.
It also affect those with seperate console, such as MVAE
What they should do instead is to make it so that even at 10km it cloaks as much so that peopel can sotp using this tactic.
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
Why are you forcing people to follow your rules in a game?
Seriously I've done thousands of runs of every STF there is since they came into the game, and there is a reason why I don't do elites outside of a small few group of friends, people seem to think a) I'm an idiot that hasn't played STF's since they came out and b) I don't need to be hit with a baseball bat because I'm not following THEIR rules.
Kinda why pugs can be fun! No rules, everyone just goes and if it gets screwed up you just blame it on the pug hehe.
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Doesn't prevent her from cloaking but it sure cuts down the frequency
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Sorta... As I said before:
Donatra - aka the Scimitar NPC in general (Sela, punks in fleet alert) have a random number generator based cloaking system/AI.
The odds are slanted to "rarely" cloak when the focus of her attention is farther than 5km away from her, and "most likely" cloak when the focus of attention is within 5km of her.
Let's say (as we'll most likely never be given the hard numbers), that Donatra cloaks with a 85% frequency checked once every 30 seconds, if the focus of her aggro is within 5km. Because it's a percentage chance, we go to the RNG. You know, that same thing that kept people from getting the STF sets after 200 runs in the pre-rep days? The same thing that doesn't give people lockbox ships after 1,000s of lockboxes but then gives joe-bob 5 ships in 6 boxes?
Well, a run where the aggro-grabbing tank sits within 5km for 2 minutes as people blast on a not-cloaking Donatra? RNG gave you the "5 ships in 6 lockbox" type result.
Running everyone at 5.5km and Donatra cloaks? Again, RNG doing it's thing. Donatra does still have a chance to cloak at any point in the mission, even if the target is outside the 5km range.
Therefore, the "5km" rule is not a 100% guarantee of behavior, unlike the trigger lines in Infected Ground. However, the rule does state/describe the proper conditions necessary to create the best chances for a quick kill...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
From observation it seems that if the main aggro grabber is within 5km then she will probably but not always cloak. If there's lots of low aggro ships hitting her she ignores them.
As sure fire way to get her to cloak though that I've found is using grav wells on her together with high dps. Seems to upset her more than most things.
Annoyingly though she can cloak when in a grav well, which should be impossible. It's one example of the npcs ignoring rules that we have to play to.
I have found using a hargh-peng torp is good for tracking her as it emits a purple cloud even when she's cloaked. And the radiation explosion after 15 secs happens even when she is cloaked.
I must agree with this post.
I have noticed when we all keep our distance she cloaks less often then when players attack her at very close range.
I was in a PUG group with 4 Sci ships and she kept cloaking more often when players would get real close to her even though the Sci ships kept spamming Gravity Wells at her.
The only way we were able to beat her was when I told the others to stay away from her and attack from 7-10km away.
Well it took some time until they got tiered and we lost one Sci ship due to frustration that we all finally kept our distance and slowly but surely she started to cloak less often and we were able to defeat her.
One could say it was just one BIG coincidence that when we kept our distance she cloaked a lot less but whos to know.
I really think you are seeing things into the cloaking mechanism.
I have been doing KASE a lot lately, and honestly I found her cloaking totally random.
Once she cloaks all the time, at other times I could literally sit beside her, and take down more than half of her health points before she cloaked.
My team is doing KASE and Donatra is permacloaking.
Because two of the team are in escorts are rushing her at point blank range.
Followed by an escort wannabe (Bortas cruiser I think) who is doing the same.
The player issues a warning to stay out of 5km and is duly ignored.
5 minutes later, they decide to just leave.
That's how strongly this player feels about the rule, that they were willing to leave the match shortly after engaging Donatra the the teams' lack of ability to follow instructions regarding the 5km rule.
So the escort wannabe orders everyone to close to point blank range and gives me aggro because I'm continually having to evade Donatra's constant thalaron blasts.
10 minutes later, I've had enough of this nonsense, add the escort wannabe to ignore and prepare to mapleave.
Only to be beaten to it as the escort wannabee ragequits.
Now try to explain that away.
Personally, I've had enough of this behavior in KASE.
Not following the 5k rule, that I can live with, even though I find it personally irksome.
What's irritiating me is that lately the majority of aggressive players have been encountered in KASE.
Therefore, I think it's time to stay away from this STF if it involves PUGs.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
It's just been changed... getting closer than 5 km makes her nervous and more likely to hit the cloak button. However, as some others have said it, it is random. There's two cloaks...
1. I think I'll get into position and use my thalorn generators
2. I don't like this pervert riding my butt...
Even if there still is, if she decloaks and charges her thalaron pulse she's a still target with a negative defense value for 12 or so seconds.
Why would you not all pile up at 0km and unload on her point blank?
I can't speak for other players, but when I discover I'm in the middle of a Thalaron cone, I hit Evasive Maneuvers and get the heck out of there before I'm oneshotted.
Which doesn't leave a lot of time for fighting back, especially if she cloaks immediately after firing her Thalaron pulse.
I sincerely doubt any group of players can one shot Donatra at point blank range before she cloaks again.
And if you can, awesome slow clap for you!
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
My character Tsin'xing
You do understand that damage done does not do anything in STFs right?
It is all completely random. STFs are not on the same scoring program that normal fleet actions are.
[/SIGPIC]
There's a little game I like to play called "follow the torps".
I evasive out of the cone and then on to her side or rear, depending on which if any has lower shields.
And it is a piece of TRIBBLE to knackle her after one decloak if everyone does it. No one will manage to break her max hit points with one hit though.
That's why I insist players with pets use the Recall command, because it puts the pets inside the hanger bays and removes them from gameplay.
Unfortunately, your average PUG will not listen to requests, so I just gave up saying anything at all.
But yes, you are right, the commands are incredibly poor.
I want greater control, but I don't think Cryptic has that as a priority.
To be brutually honest, if you're so dependent on your pets to inflict damage, then your ship build is a poor one.
Your ship should be capable of taking out enemy vessels on it's own.
The pets are for bonus damage, they're not intended to be the primary source of damage.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Donatra will cloak randomly regardless of player distance.
She will also cloak if an aggroed player gets within 5km of her.
To reduce the frequency of her cloaks, STAY FARTHER THAN 5km AWAY FROM HER.
It's a 2 hangar carrier with frigate. If it's HEC I can perfectly understand, but for the full carriers, unless you are flying a Kar'fi, they turn and move worse than Galaxy or D'D... but with only 3/3 weapons. Even if one go all beams, majority of damage actually come from pets.
EDIT: In fact that is what make pet master class special even in other MMO: Rely on AI.
It also affect those with seperate console, such as MVAE
What they should do instead is to make it so that even at 10km it cloaks as much so that peopel can sotp using this tactic.