test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Why do players keep breaking the 5km rule? KASE
tilarta
Member Posts: 1,801 Arc User
I've observed this behavior so often I am now wondering why players keep doing it. 
To explain the 5km rule, whenever engaging an enemy Scimitar (Donatra is the one we see most often), you must keep a minimum of 5km between you and her.
A secondary requirement of the rule is that you must recall all active hanger bay pets, because they can also break the 5km distance.
If anything gets closer then 5km, player ship or hanger bay pet, she will cloak instantly.
And this is not my own speculation, it is based on hours of observing Donatra in KASE.
The worst match was when all the players would engage Donatra at point blank range with a high number of hanger bay pets going after her.
It took 20 minutes to bring her down because she was cloaking every 2 seconds.
The best match was when all the team knew the rule and kept hitting her from at range.
She rarely cloaked.
And inevitably, you'll see at least one player hit Evasive Maneuvers and move to within 1km to attack Donatra.
With the expected result of course.
KASE has been in the game long enough for people to learn this rule, I've even said it myself on occassion.
So why is nobody actually learning and following the rule?
To explain the 5km rule, whenever engaging an enemy Scimitar (Donatra is the one we see most often), you must keep a minimum of 5km between you and her.
A secondary requirement of the rule is that you must recall all active hanger bay pets, because they can also break the 5km distance.
If anything gets closer then 5km, player ship or hanger bay pet, she will cloak instantly.
And this is not my own speculation, it is based on hours of observing Donatra in KASE.
The worst match was when all the players would engage Donatra at point blank range with a high number of hanger bay pets going after her.
It took 20 minutes to bring her down because she was cloaking every 2 seconds.
The best match was when all the team knew the rule and kept hitting her from at range.
She rarely cloaked.
And inevitably, you'll see at least one player hit Evasive Maneuvers and move to within 1km to attack Donatra.
With the expected result of course.
KASE has been in the game long enough for people to learn this rule, I've even said it myself on occassion.
So why is nobody actually learning and following the rule?
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Post edited by tilarta on
0
Comments
Escorts with cannons do more damage close up. More damage equals better chance to get best optional rewards vs. other players at the end.
Or they can't follow instructions in the language typed in chat.
But I do not believe hangar pets alone trigger the cloaking.
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic
I don't wanna give away the WHOLE thing, as learning to deal with a Boss Encounter is half the fun of beating them. But, I'll lay a few truth-bombs on ya, just to clear the air.
Firstly, as long as she is in Combat, it is guaranteed that she will eventually Cloak, no matter how far away from her you stay.
It is true that this behavior occurs more frequently if you get within a certain distance from her. It is also true, however, that getting close to her is not an instant 100% guarantee that she will suddenly Cloak.
***Quote by a player saying Donatra's cloaking pattern should be clarified by the devs***
I'm going to have to disagree with you here. A Boss Encounter requires a schtick - a powerful attack or ability that can only be countered by players if they know how to properly counter it, and pay attention to the fight. There are very few Boss Encounters in the MMO gaming world where anticipation or prevention are considered valid counters - reaction is nearly always required.
In the case of Donatra, her schtick is the Cloak+Thalaron maneuver. But honestly, the counter to it is fairly simple - keeping maneuvering abilities in reserve, and reacting to her charge-up when she decloaks, after you've examined her firing arc. The charge-up time on this blast is 12seconds -- the challenge of the fight is learning to move out of the clearly-marked 90-degree firing arc of this weapon, before it goes off. If you cannot do so within this 12 second window, keep practicing. You shouldn't need more time than that.
Source: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=11686641&postcount=6
I know of the rule too, but.. wasn't that taken out in a patch some months ago?
I seem to remember that there was some kind of bug with it, and they removed the 5km trigger for her cloak.
Just making sure I have my facts straight.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=11686641&postcount=6
Changes made to her (Donatra) AI did add a random element to her cloaking regardless of the distance of the players (6 months ago or so?). Sometime in the last 3 weeks a previous bug was reintroduced that causes her to discharge her main weapons WITHOUT the buildup. It can be triggered by subsystems crits which is annoying.
Does she always cloak when player get within 5km? NO.
Donatra can be immobilized, drained of power and easily disposed of. The varied interplay of science skills, with the concentrated firepower of a few tacs makes the Dontra phase of the mission almost an after thought.
Simple Rule #1 of STO: EVERYTHING CHANGES. RELAX.
ty VIRUSDANCER
The most prevalent effect to cause the cloak is alpha striking within 2km.
If your about to rail her up close. She will buzz off...90% guaranteed
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Phaser Proc
Elachi Subspace Integration Circuit
Subsystem Targeting
Romulan Sensor Targeting Assault
And everything and anything else that will cause Weapons or Aux offline will trip it.
The easiest way to stop this is to make sure you have her aggro, and are over 5k away, as long as you can keep the aggro she won't cloak as often.
Donatra (all Scimitars actually) has a random chance to cloak at all ranges. When the range(s) are kept at 5+ km, then the cloak chance is extremely low, however, once the aggro target gets within the 5km window, then the chance to cloak spikes up dramatically, however, because of random chance, it is entirely possible that the cloak will not engage.
Therefore, and something that's extremely hard to explain in the scant seconds of the mission, there can be a case of Donatra (Scimitar) not cloaking during a combat, especially with a series of "lucky" no-cloak results + massive DPS (quick kill before law of averages catches up). Just like she might cloak 20 times with everyone staying 5+km, especially if the average group DPS is more reminiscent of a Miranda...
RNG's chaos wreaks havok with the "5km rule" or anything of the sort. However, adherence to the rule does prompt conditions favorable to the lack of a cloak...
And, coincidentally, is a case where beams > cannons, even on escorts, contrary to "conventional wisdom" where DHC = best...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
My character Tsin'xing
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
wweellll yes and no depending the avengers torp console the V.A.T.A acctually well follow her cloaked same with the ionized gas sensor console heck even hitting her with the breen syphon or any syphon skills well tell u where she is at.
Member since early 2011
Well tracking and detecting sure is perfectly alright.
But in terms of actual decloaking abilities and things that prevent her from recloaking, do not work at all. So stuff like CPB, Tractor Beam, GW, energy drains, etc will not decloak her or prevent her from cloaking again.
And that's not an isolated occurance, I've seen it many times over with any Scimitar in the game.
The one I find particularly frustating is the Fleet Alert Scimitar.
The other players will trigger it to cloak all the time while the timer is ticking down to eliminate it.
It's rare that a group will know how to take down a Scimitar.
Which is why as soon as I see Romulans, I quit, because it's doomed to fail.
So you can say it's outdated all you like, to me, evidence of direct observation proves otherwise.
And yes, I wish Cloakbreaker powers did work on Scimitars.
I've tried every technique I can think of to forcibly decloak Donatra and none of them worked.
The one I found funny was to shoot a grappling line (it's a console power) at her just before she cloaked and watch the line mysteriously disengage.
Invisible or not, if you're got a space harpoon stuck in your hull, all we have to do is fire at the end of the cable, since this is where your ship is!
A more practical approach I tried was to use the Jem'Hadar Space Set (Mk XII).
Despite me using this power when Donatra (and any other Scimitar) cloaks, nothing happens.
I asked a player with Cloak to fieldtest the power with me and everytime I hit him with the Antiproton Sweep, he was decloaked instantly.
I think Cryptic needs to revise NPC Scimitars so they have to follow the same rules as player ships.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
"It's really more of a... guideline than a rule, you know?"
Anyway, the distance only influences her cloaking rate if you have her direct attention. A low dps/low threat ship can plink away at her at point blank range without effect.
Charge her and it can go on for a long time and get your team mates killed over and over
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I think she cloaks if she gets spiked too much, and of course noobs jump to the assumption its because you are too close to it, and not because you just took down half of its health in 3 seconds.
There are no rules to cover strategy in gameplay.
But I guarantee if you deliberately ignore the tactics, for example, crossing the trigger lines in ISE, you're going to be sabotaging the mission and well, you deserve the verbal abuse they throw at you.
I just prefer to play it safe, whatever the cause, it's triggered by proximity.
And I've seen that enough to be certain of it, when all the other players are at range and one player gets too close, cloak, gone.
I see no reason why you can't shoot Scimitars at 9km as opposed to point blank range.
You're still shooting at her.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
I have seen it many a time no one went within 5km and she just cloaked anyway. The 5km rule just makes it take longer to kill her.
For High-dps-escorts a cloak is quite nice, since after it she sits 12sec like a duck and you can inflact much damage on her. Still, for the most player, keeping distance is adviceable, since the more she cloaks, the longer the stf goes.
AFAIK Donatra does not use an "actual" cloaking device in terms of game mechanics.
She sort of semi-despawns and pretty much gets reduced to a mobile data point, which is most likely why she can decloak in "perfect" firing position every time for her thalaron attacks.
This is the most logical assumption as I have never observed any other AI ship in the entire game being capable of actually maneuvering into perfect attack positions.