test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Options
Kinetic Cutting Beam Question
astimingpyle
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
A long time ago I was told the Kinetic cutting beam from the Omega Rep ignores shields and does hull damage.
Recently, I was told by someone else that the Kinetic cutting beam is pretty much useless as long as it is hitting shields, and only begins to do any real damage after the shield has dropped.
So, I'd like to know which is the true case? Does it go straight through the shields to do hull damage, or does it do nothing until the target facing shield has dropped?
Recently, I was told by someone else that the Kinetic cutting beam is pretty much useless as long as it is hitting shields, and only begins to do any real damage after the shield has dropped.
So, I'd like to know which is the true case? Does it go straight through the shields to do hull damage, or does it do nothing until the target facing shield has dropped?
[SIGPIC]http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?u=96550022000&type=sigpic&dateline=1365955208[/SIGPIC]
Post edited by astimingpyle on
0
Comments
It doesn't ignore shields. Think of it more as a compressed and stretched torpedo... pretty crappy against shields, But when it gets to the hull...woohoo... Also like a torpedo or any weapon it can miss but will still give the firing beam. It also kills off crew slowly. So basically, a 360 degree top that uses a little weapon energy Kills off targets crew and is pretty much always firing with a slight pause in between
It needs to hit an exposed hull to be effective, yet shield facings can regen pretty quickly, so its effectiveness weakens, and even when you do manage to keep the facing down for long, you usually kill them off way before the KCB can rack up some decent dps.
If you prefer not to use any major kinetic weapons, such as mines, or torpedoes, than the KCB is a decent filler, but as for kinetic weapons go in general IMO, I find it to be so so at best.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
make no mistake, this weapon + the assimilated console is a must have for pretty much ANY build.
*edit: had to correct myself there, because i was under the impression AP consoles would buff the KCB, which is not the case, since it deals kinetic dmg.
Lol, what?
That is the biggest use from the set, besides the console itself.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Correct. The console itself is one of the best universal consoles in the game. The kinetic cutting beam is average, and it is certainly not even close to being the best kinetic weapon in the game. The 2 set bonus is good from using these together, however it is in no way 'essential to builds'.
Please don't make wild statements on academy stuff, that could make newer players believe they can't be creative and have an open mind to their builds. Use facts, not favoritism. There are already far to many people in STO that dont think for themselves and seem to get all their builds/tactics from forums.
There is so much customisation in this game, people should experiment more. There is a lot you can do, and more importantly, its half the fun.
By the way, that wasn't directed at you shadowwraith.
I wonder if they were confusing the Kinetic Cutting Beam with the Rep Passive/Trait Omega Graviton Amplifier...perhaps thinking about the 2pc bonus and the Omega Weapons Amplifier.
Omega Graviton Amplifier does 751.4 kinetic damage - direct to hull, that ignores shields. It can't be buffed and its damage cannot normally be resisted (outside of certain "invulnerability" doohickeys). It's always 751.4 kinetic damage direct to hull that ignores shields.
2pc OWA, oft with the KCB (with its Kinetic damage that doesn't ignore shields) & the OGA Passive (doing Kinetic damage that ignores shields)...one can easily see where they might have been confused in what they told you.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
yeah that basicaly leads to people with horrible builds...
and what other kinetic weapon can match the DPS? the rom. torp? propbably, but you definately need the doff for that and it is a 90 degree weapon and it would be best that the target doesn't move or use any ability that could destroy the torps before they reach the target.
and i hate to break your bubble, but there are clear limits to creativity in this game when it comes to efficency...there are synergys that simply work better than others and some abilities and items that are just "better" than others. It is safe to say that 90% of the consoles that come with c-store and lockbox ships are garbage compared to fleet consoles and or certain reputation consoles.
Doesn't really impact in most of the PVE maps, but it is without a shadow of a doubt less efficent.
if you like to cook your own soup, feel free to do so, but any new player should definately look for a cookie cutter build and go with that before starting to toy around by himself and end up with a "creative" yet ****ty build.
He is not only doing himself a favour, but the rest of the PUG.
fyi: the KCB is probably average on your build...don't asume it is in general, just because you can't handle it. Get an ACT and check for yourself...KCB does slightly more overall % dmg than a turret that is fueled by rapid fire and 4 fleet disruptor consoles.
In my ACT log, my 3 disruptor turrets did 23% of the overall dmg(rapid fire and normal fire combined), that means ~7,3% per turret.
The KCB did 9%...without being buffed by consoles or any ability.
*edit: had to correct myself there, because i was under the impression AP consoles would buff the KCB, which is not the case, since it deals kinetic dmg.
Just my two cents, otherwise... no, it doesn't ignore shields, yes it gets a bonus when used in conjunction with the Assimilated 3-piece Tractor Beam, and yes the KCB can still be worthwhile for the 2-piece set bonus along with either the console or torp. It's at least as effective as a turret overall, and technically can apply the Tetryon Glider and other energy weapon bonus procs (Valdore console, Solanae Hybrid Technologies 3-piece, etc.). Not a bad little toy.
*As a side note, for the 2-piece I generally go Kinetic Cutting Beam + Assimilated Module. The Omega Plasma Torpedo Launcher is okay, but since it no longer procs the Projectile Weapons Officer reload doffs it is unimpressive as a secondary torp and lacks the punch to be your main; better to replace a turret with the KCB. That's assuming the devs didn't change it back, but I don't see that happening since it was actually rather handy before. :P
Look mate i don't want to burst your bubble either, but you do realise you aren't the only one who knows how to play this game right or build ships. My scimitar, can take a cube and everything that comes out of it solo, on Cure Space elite, without dying if i don't do something stupid. No KCB in sight. As can my avenger, my Apex cruiser and my Jem dread. All with different builds, including kinetic weapons, and no KCB.
The KCB is an average weapon, the only reason people like it so much is because you get it early in the rep and its 360. Actually try a build without it if you have the stones, go on i dare you!
I have ACT, had it for a long time, and have made several ridiculous DPS builds, usually with Rom plasma and no KCB in sight. Now if you think its an accurate DPS meter then you are crazy. To then base your build on it is complete TRIBBLE. Half the people who use it don't even know its limitations or how to read it correctly. My fleet arkif did 60k DPS in one fight, do i think that my arkif now does 60k DPS? No i don't. Half of ACT numbers are situational and nowhere near to being consistent. They are ball park numbers at best. At best!
Kinetic weapons with more damage than a KCB? Gravimetric photon torpedo, enhanced bio torpedo, Fleet quantums, transphasic torpedo boat builds. There are many. If you spec slightly into torpedos, especially photons, there is no comparison.
People who think that they need to use 'cookie cutter' (im really sick of hearing this term) builds or that KCB or any other item is essential to a build, are people that live their whole MMO lives around other peoples builds/gear/setups/forum comments. Seriously, open your mind. There is more to games than trying to min/max everything for the sake of 3-4% damage, especially STO. Dynamic builds with varying weapon types can be far more effective than just maxing out one thing.
Experiment and be surprised, and take your head out of ACT world.
excuse me, mr. ultra pro ship builder...didn't know you are such a number crunsher, since you really don't come across like one.
yes, and if i use consoles according to the torp i will also surpass my energy weapons...KCB has about double the DPS of a turret WITHOUT any skills or consoles, which makes it a superb weapon ontop of the set bonus.
when a weapon without any buffs parses for nearly 10% of overall dmg...it is an excellent weapon for any build. and it is incorporated in nearly every build a player looking for builds will come across.
Of course you need to adjust a "cookie cutter" build to your ship, you can't just copy - paste, but experimenting around can be costly and nobody needs to reinvent the wheel. Especially not people that are new to the game, which might get frustrated with their failed experiments, which obviously is the case, judging from the trillions of forum posts regarding help for ship builds.
No ship has more than 8 weapon slots, so 10 % could potentially be "subpar" for on average, a weapon slot would contribute 12.5 % of the damage.
Of course, some ships rely on weapons with a low arc, the contribution for front weapons would be higher and for aft weapons lower, but other ships (broad-siding ships), the distribution should be relatively equal, so 10 % then may be subpar.
Nice thanks for totally massacring what i said and becoming hostile, very mature. While only replying to half of it. I wasn't trying to be arrogant, nor thinking i am better than everyone. I was simply stating some facts related to some ship builds i have made that don't use KCB at all. I don't see how that was so hard to see and instead for some reason change to blaaah blaah blaah.
Yes yes, we know your precious inaccurate parser says its great while unbuffed. Maybe you arent buffing your other weapons right? Also it has changed from 8% damage to 10% damage on an already inaccurate parsing system.
And no i wasn't talking about speccing into torpedoes using tactical consoles. As i said, especially photon torpedoes, there are other ways of buffing them without sacrificing energy weapon power. THIS IS WHAT I MEAN BY EXPERIMENTING. But you wouldn't know because if you don't see it in someone else's 'cookie cutter' build first you wont deem it viable.
Breen 2 piece space set bonus = +transphasic damage
Adapted MACO 2 piece space set bonus = +torpedo damage
Counter command deflector = +projectile damage
Counter command tac console = +photon damage
Dyson torpedo set = +photon damage, +photon crit
Omega Kinetic shearing trait = +kinetic damage
And i am sure there are others i dont know about. But then again, i bet you would never consider not using 2 pieces of Borg space set and either the MACO or Fleet Resilient shields, because thats what everyone else uses.
I hear what you are saying about cost involved in making new builds, and for that i agree 'cookie cutter' builds can be useful for people starting out. My main gripe was you telling people what is and isn't essential to a 'good' build. which is complete BS. Nothing is essential, only perceived to be.
EVERYBODY is aware of that, you can even make it more efficent with boff abilities and doffs. But that is not the issue...KCB (and assimilated console) simply fit on any build, since each item on their own is already better, or as good as any other item you can put in that specific slot. Together they have an excellent set bonus. They occuy slots that are normaly not interfering with other set items.
again i'll explain, since you obviously didn't get it. The KCB replaces a turret in the aft weapon slot...any other turret in the aft weapon slot, even if buffed by consoles and scatter volley or rapid fire, does score significantly lower than the KCB in overall dmg.
you also would need to specc into torps to make use of torps (they are completely underpowered in this game anyway), KCB does not need that and scores higher and or as good as specific torpedos.
it seems to me that you are so against "cookie cutter" builds that once you see an item incorporated in more than 1 or 2 of those builds it has become "unusable" or "inferior" to you, because all of the rest of us "unimaginative" people use it.
Unfortunately this game doesn't leave that much place for experiments anyway, since the amount of "must have" items has nearly reached the number of possible items you can put on your ship.
anyway, i stand by my statement that KCB alone is an excellent kinetic dmg item especially since you can put it in the rear and the combo with the console is pretty much mandatory, since it doesn't even conflict with other sets. I'd consider a build without it a fail, or an RP build.
But come to think of it, i do not use it on my shuttles.
KCB doesn't go through shields.
But it's a fine weapon, part of many builds, an integral piece of a set bonus that a lot of people use, and is a 360 degree beam weapon so I'd say it's earned its place as one of the most popular rep granted items in STO.
We are on the academy page, maybe you didn't notice. So no, not EVERYBODY is aware of how good other kinetic weapons can be in conjunction with items/doffs/set bonuses. Torpedoes are definitely not underpowered. It just shows to me you dont use them and have never spent any time trying to. In fact, let me guess, you like another 'cookie cutter' build for skill points, the one where people spec no points at all into projectile weapons? Maybe you just don't know tactics or how to time them right so you hit hull instead of shields? Again supreme arrogance, because something doesn't work for you, you think its 'underpowered'. Lol.
I did get it just fine mate, you just don't seem to be able to take any other opinions on board without becoming defensive/hostile. Classic superiority issue. As such, ill just strike you off as another douchebag among many prowling the forums. As such i will briefly reply this last time, then you can get all the last words you like in.
There are no essential items. ACT is inaccurate. KCB is an average kinetic weapon, not bad but not great. I said the set bonus is good yes, i haven't even denied that or said KCB is a bad weapon. You need to read what people write, rather than feeling slighted that someone doesn't agree with you. Those are the main points i was making.
Im not 'so against cookie cutter builds i see them as unusable or inferior' at all. My point is, people like you, think that you make a build and no one could possibly do better or consider anything different because to you, its great. Thats fine, its your game, your character. I have no doubt they are good solid builds.
My major issue is, people like you then tell everyone else, that what you like is 'essential' to everyone or they just can't possibly have a good build. And it simply isn't true. As i said before, nothing is essential only perceived to be. I use to think certain things were essential, and you know what? I took them off. And guess what? I still had good builds.
Spend less time copying people on forums and more time trying your own stuff. Then you might get what i mean. And just because you haven't got the resources to experiment doesn't mean experimenting isn't a viable or worthwhile activity. It just means you personally can't do it.
:EDIT:
"anyway, i stand by my statement that KCB alone is an excellent kinetic dmg item especially since you can put it in the rear and the combo with the console is pretty much mandatory, since it doesn't even conflict with other sets. I'd consider a build without it a fail, or an RP build. "
I just want to re highlight what i have been talking about with this snippet from your last comment. Seriously, what an arrogant, overbearing ballbag you are. Words like 'mandatory' and 'fail'. In your 2nd comment, you mentioned that this weapon did 1.7% more damage than a turret. 1.7% is mandatory? Ha, Get over yourself.
Hes one of the guys that puts builds on the forums...its others that are copying him. Cant blame him for using a cookie cutter build for when it is he who cut the cookie.
KCB+assimilated is a fantastic combo, perhaps not end all be all...but in terms of energy weapons....it is in poor taste to dismiss it
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
I practice in the early stages and today just to see how my new layout working out. In the Nimbus Sector you have few planets you can test and you can also earn points, get, console items and have some fun.
Time will only tell!
Ok, now read the rest of the comments and tell me where i dismissed it? Honestly, i don't give a **** who makes the 'cookie cutter' builds. There are probably 100's if not 1000's of people that could go on forums and make builds for people. Just because they don't do it doesn't mean they aren't out there or their opinions would not be viable in build discussions.
I under stand everything you are saying mate. I tried min/maxing, and still do on certain ships, and its boring. If you min/max then you will also understand this to be true.
I had a scim and an arkif doing 60k+ DPS in STF's and it is boring. No i'm not talking about a 10k at best build either. You sound like you think if you don't know someone, or they don't regularly post 'builds' on forums that they can't be possibly able to play the game effectively and are somehow inferior.
I have been playing the game for 2 years. I have 40+ ships, about 20 of them lockbox. I have about 3000 hours clocked up. I have every energy weapon type, access to all fleet gear possible, every lobi space weapon except Ferengi and every rep maxed out. I have ACT. I read forums, i speak to people about what works for them. I make good builds, i try things, i know when they don't work and i fix them. I have experimented a great deal.
But i don't tell people what is or isn't essential because i'm not arrogant enough to think i know everything about the game. No one does. Some stuff the developers don't even know themselves! Lol.
If i wanted to recommend something, i would say something like "I found having item XXXX works well with item XXXX and especially in combination with XXXX. I tried other things similar but they did not produce as good results. I would consider using it in any build for set bonus XXXX"
Nowhere is the word 'mandatory', 'essential' or 'fail build'. If you know a good amount about the game then fair enough, pass it on to benefit others. But don't think you are the only one that does.
There is more to damage than DPS. Yes consistent, DPS over and over looks good on ACT, if you like to sit there with DHC's or using FAW endlessly with aux 2 bat, pushing in 30mil+ doffs.
But their are other uses for other things not accurately depicted on ACT. Things that are more fun, such as torp strikes/spreads/beam overloads through shield gaps that can do spike damage. Things that work well in different situations, than sitting 3km from a boss AI repeating 3 skills over and over.
This. Enough said.
I use everything I have and carefully test to see what works and use the right console to go with it. Not all consoles just what works. But if you have slot of aft torp, you should use one there. When they're on your tail incoming torp in their face will give them something to think about only if your using the right torp though. Some can be shot down.
Time will only tell!
yesterday in game someone asked in chat if it was a good idea to keep all beam weapons the same type or put a few different kinds on your ship, this sparked a debate among others and got me thinking since i have AP, plasma, tetryon banks(i think) and the omni on my ship. i seem to kill things just fine so wasnt sure.
The best tactical console damage buffs are based on energy types, so it's generally better to stick to one energy type.
But PvE is not that difficult usually that it's crucial. But it's still more efficient and if you want to optimzie your build, that is something to look at.
This is very true. Also, if you are wanting to try just one energy type on your ship to see the difference, you don't really need to dish out a lot of EC. There are episodes that you can pick weapons at the end of. Some offer hybrid weapons like Phased Disruptors. They are Disruptors, with the Phaser proc. For ones like this, you can use a Disruptor tac console, and benefit from the proc of both energy types.
This is how I usually test out different energy types. I will pick them from the episodes, and load a ship out with them by doing the episode multiple times. Then, I can see the effects that the individual weapons have, as well as the effect of running all one energy type.
If you are curious about what going with a single energy type will do for you, I recommend giving this a try. Also, if you go to the exchange for the tac consoles, it is a good idea to look for the common quality consoles for testing. The commons will not bind on equip, and can be resold after testing is completed.
OK, fair enough. I agree with all points said...dps racing isn't how the game is designed and it does get boring. And the dps racing is aoe parsed which requires a specific build to look pretty on act...true there indeed.
But it's when you deviate from the obvious power builds that you don't measure up. Kcb/assimilated console out dpses and aft turret or torpedo and the proc puts it on par with a beam array.
I think I'm starting to ramble...let go with the quote you quoted and say it's kinetic therefore weaker against shields but it's still a 360 always on torpedo...and leave it at that
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree