Ships in Star Trek shows and movies hold up as well as the Plot Armor tells them to. If the plot calls for lots of ships blowing, up, well, they'll blow up real good. And fast. If the plot calls for survival, they'll hold up.
There were many times the Galaxy-class overcame a lot of adversity on Star Trek. Yet a Galaxy-class was about as sturdy as a wet paper bag when the plot called for it.
Sorry, USS Odyssey.
And sorry to the USS Yamato.
that's why 'stating' ships based on your favorite instance of cannon associated with it is bad, if your putting together a game. because you can use that bias to justify making a ship horrible based on 1 instance, and another ship god tier in another. best example i can think of is the excelsior R and galaxy R we have in game. best to go off things like the tech manual, and tech facts gleamed from the show.
Would be a straight argument about quantity vs. quantity - no argument made about quality. The argument about quality (as well as the continued argument about quantity) would come about once you remove all the WTF boats from the lists above...and that would have been what I was saying.
You also mentioned Elite Disruptors vs. Elite Phasers. Lol, duh! Who hasn't done the epic /facepalm at Elite Phasers whether Fed or KDF...I mean, WTF was Cryptic thinking there? I simply do not believe Elite Disruptors are the best weapon; even excluding box weapons.
Nausicaans are better than Humans, imho - when it gets into BOFFs.
Siphons? Really? Maybe two years ago or more? Elite Interceptors at the end of the day are still fighters and thus shredded if you even look at them. Danubes/Yellowstones on the other hand - not so much - and the blue poo...well...yeah.
How about the other one that's generally tossed out there? AAs? AAs are awesome to drop out on Fed farmers in Ker'rat that are pressing the A key and spacebar with their left hands while patting themselves on the back with their right hand. Otherwise they're being obliterated by torps or KCBs. On the other hand, a Fed team cycling TDF can eliminate any stealth issues that the Fed farmers from Ker'rat are normally complaining about.
I didn't go KDF because they were better - I went KDF because they are the underdog. If I wanted to go with the better, I'd be running all Fed Roms. Just the cost to try to equip a KDF Rom at the same level of a Fed Rom is insane when it comes to DOFFs...meh.
No doubt there were periods of time in the history of STO where KDF teams were just brutal compared to Feds...but that boogeyman's long gone, imho.
Then again, the basic concept of Fed and KDF is pretty much gone as well, eh? Roms and Box Ships...is the main. But there's still that edge in ships when it comes to Feds vs. KDF for folks that do not want to run a Rom or do not want to go Box.
There might have been a time when one could argue the Carrier vs. Sci Vessel thing - but with the massive boost to SA, the continued boosting of Perception vs. Stealth and a Sci Vessel being better at Stealth Detection than a non-Sci Vessel, and the addition of the Secondary Deflectors...
It just gets into what does the KDF have to compare with the 5x Tac Console Fed boats and the myriad of Sci Vessel choices? If the KDF had something comparable, not necessarily the same thing - not everything has to be the same thing - but just something comparable, it would be one thing...
...but this is Cryptic, the folks that brought us Elite Phasers and Elite Disruptors thinking they were comparable. /facepalm
The issue is the same as it always has been though....
When it comes to actual Premade caliber PvP...
The game has never ever been escorts online.
It is also NOT or has it ever been Cruisers online.
It is and always will be Science online.
Team with more / better science wins. Every time all the time.
Giving feds the only viable science ships since launch, has been the reason why every good premade has been fed based. Sure a few QEW teams and a very small number of the Lore teams could hold there own... that however was 100% skill and those teams fought with one hand behind there back. It is why for instance QEW ran stupid fed teams all the time that drove people nuts... they where just showing how stupid OP the fed ships could be when used as a team.
As an aside, while some folks mention missing certain folks that used to play - personally, I think it would be bad for the game if they came back. I mean, c'mon - could you imagine how devastating it would be? Most folks can't rise to the challenge that exists currently...could you imagine if folks like them came back? How many of us would run away to breed Epohhs...? :P
I think instead QEW or Lore but also TSI would have a very bad surprise with all the TRIBBLE we have to manage now...:P
Heh, I'm pretty sure they'd figure it out quick enough...and...most of us would end up over on Facebook playing Candy Crush Saga while nursing our scotch. :P
Comments
that's why 'stating' ships based on your favorite instance of cannon associated with it is bad, if your putting together a game. because you can use that bias to justify making a ship horrible based on 1 instance, and another ship god tier in another. best example i can think of is the excelsior R and galaxy R we have in game. best to go off things like the tech manual, and tech facts gleamed from the show.
No box ships, just 10 console Zen and Fleet boats...looking at 2-3 Tac (4 or more Tac Consoles) and 2-3 Sci (LCdr Sci)...we have the following:
Fed - Tac
Fleet Advanced Heavy Cruiser Retrofit
Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit
Fleet Avenger Battle Cruiser
Fleet Dreadnought Cruiser
Andorian Escort (Charal)
Andorian Escort (Khyzon)
Andorian Escsort (Kumari)
Blockade Runner Escort Retrofit
Fleet Patrol Escort Refit
Fleet Escort Retrofit
Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit
Fleet Advanced Escort
Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier
Advanced Dyson Science Destroyer (Reconnaissance)
Fleet Chimera Heavy Destroyer
Fleet Aquarius
Multi-Mission Explorer (Reconnaissance)
Fleet Reconnaissance Science Vessel
Fed - Sci
Odyssey Star Cruiser (Operations)
Odyssey Star Cruiser (Science)
Odyssey Star Cruiser (Tactical)
Fleet Support Cruiser Retrofit
Fleet Advanced Escort
Advanced Dyson Science Destroyer (Reconnaissance)
Advanced Dyson Science Destroyer (Strategic)
Advanced Dyson Science Destroyer (Surveillance)
Fleet Chimera Heavy Destroyer
Multi-Mission Explorer (Reconnaissance)
Multi-Mission Explorer (Strategic)
Multi-Mission Explorer (Surveillance)
Fleet Research Science Vessel Retrofit
Fleet Deep Space Science Vessel
Fleet Reconnaissance Science Vessel
Fleet Science Vessel Retrofit
Fleet Advanced Research Science Vessel Retrofit
Fleet Long Range Science Vessel Retrofit
Fleet Caitian Atrox Carrier
KDF - Tac
Fleet HoH'SuS Bird-of-Prey
Fleet Somraw Raptor Retrofit
Fleet Qin Heavy Raptor
Bortasqu' Battle Cruiser (Command)
Bortasqu' Battle Cruiser (Tactical)
Bortasqu' Battle Cruiser (War)
Fleet Vor'cha Battle Cruiser Retrofit (Tor'Kaht)
Fleet Mogh Battle Cruiser
Fleet Scourge Destroyer Retrofit
Fleet Peghqu' Heavy Destroyer
Advanced Dyson Science Destroyer (Tactical)
Fleet Kar'Fi Battle Carrier
KDF - Sci
Fleet B'rel Bird-of-Prey Retrofit
Fleet HoH'SuS Bird-of-Prey
Bortasqu' Battle Cruiser (Command)
Bortasqu' Battle Cruiser (Tactical)
Bortasqu' Battle Cruiser (War)
Fleet Kamarag Battle Cruiser Retrofit
Fleet Peghqu' Heavy Destroyer
Advanced Dyson Science Destroyer (Battle)
Advanced Dyson Science Destroyer (Command)
Advanced Dyson Science Destroyer (Tactical)
Fleet Varanus Support Vessel
Fleet Corsair Flight-Deck Cruiser Retrofit
Fleet Kar'Fi Battle Carrier
Fleet Vo'Quv Carrier
Would be a straight argument about quantity vs. quantity - no argument made about quality. The argument about quality (as well as the continued argument about quantity) would come about once you remove all the WTF boats from the lists above...and that would have been what I was saying.
You also mentioned Elite Disruptors vs. Elite Phasers. Lol, duh! Who hasn't done the epic /facepalm at Elite Phasers whether Fed or KDF...I mean, WTF was Cryptic thinking there? I simply do not believe Elite Disruptors are the best weapon; even excluding box weapons.
Nausicaans are better than Humans, imho - when it gets into BOFFs.
Siphons? Really? Maybe two years ago or more? Elite Interceptors at the end of the day are still fighters and thus shredded if you even look at them. Danubes/Yellowstones on the other hand - not so much - and the blue poo...well...yeah.
How about the other one that's generally tossed out there? AAs? AAs are awesome to drop out on Fed farmers in Ker'rat that are pressing the A key and spacebar with their left hands while patting themselves on the back with their right hand. Otherwise they're being obliterated by torps or KCBs. On the other hand, a Fed team cycling TDF can eliminate any stealth issues that the Fed farmers from Ker'rat are normally complaining about.
I didn't go KDF because they were better - I went KDF because they are the underdog. If I wanted to go with the better, I'd be running all Fed Roms. Just the cost to try to equip a KDF Rom at the same level of a Fed Rom is insane when it comes to DOFFs...meh.
No doubt there were periods of time in the history of STO where KDF teams were just brutal compared to Feds...but that boogeyman's long gone, imho.
Then again, the basic concept of Fed and KDF is pretty much gone as well, eh? Roms and Box Ships...is the main. But there's still that edge in ships when it comes to Feds vs. KDF for folks that do not want to run a Rom or do not want to go Box.
There might have been a time when one could argue the Carrier vs. Sci Vessel thing - but with the massive boost to SA, the continued boosting of Perception vs. Stealth and a Sci Vessel being better at Stealth Detection than a non-Sci Vessel, and the addition of the Secondary Deflectors...
It just gets into what does the KDF have to compare with the 5x Tac Console Fed boats and the myriad of Sci Vessel choices? If the KDF had something comparable, not necessarily the same thing - not everything has to be the same thing - but just something comparable, it would be one thing...
...but this is Cryptic, the folks that brought us Elite Phasers and Elite Disruptors thinking they were comparable. /facepalm
As Hus said...
As an aside, while some folks mention missing certain folks that used to play - personally, I think it would be bad for the game if they came back. I mean, c'mon - could you imagine how devastating it would be? Most folks can't rise to the challenge that exists currently...could you imagine if folks like them came back? How many of us would run away to breed Epohhs...? :P
Heh, I'm pretty sure they'd figure it out quick enough...and...most of us would end up over on Facebook playing Candy Crush Saga while nursing our scotch. :P