Remove Ambassador S'taass

angrytarg

I must say, as much as I dislike the 8472 nonsense in general, the new featured episode was well done (aside from some blatant padding. "Get the delegates seated" to squeeze out 15 seconds more playtime? Really? ). But Ambassador S'taass annoys this targ.

It's not even about the nonsense that the Klingon Empire sends a Gorn representative - I get that Cryptic decided that the Klingons basically formed the red confederation and it is supposed to be one happy family. But I don't think S'taass is up to the task.

This constant whining about boring conferences - he is ambassador, by Khaless. It is his job. And he should not foolishly risk important decisions to fail because of his personal boredom and annoyance.

Not every Klingon is a warrior, but the teachings of Khaless are to be found in most Klingons, not only warriors. For a Klingon lawyer, stepping before the court is his battle. For a Klingon farmer, improving the farm's output to feed the Empire is his battle. And for a ambassador, partaking in diplomatic talks is his battle. Instead we have a Gorn who tries to pose as a clich

orangeitis

angrytarg wrote: »

It's not even about the nonsense that the Klingon Empire sends a Gorn representative

To be fair, a Klingon would probably make worse diplomatic decisions.

angrytarg

orangeitis wrote: »

To be fair, a Klingon would probably make worse diplomatic decisions.

If you send a Cryptic/STO Klingon who keeps swinging is Bat'leth grunting "Hurr Durr, Me want SMASH!" you are probably right. But it would be an opportunity to show that not all Klingons are warriors, like I said. It's not being aggressive for no particular reason what makes a klingon. A Gorn would maybe better fit the "head scientist" position, mirroring "Egg" on fed side, who made a glorious comeback since they trashed crafting, btw (won't spoil the fun, it's in the new FE)

zipagat

S'tass actually says in the new FE that the reason he serves is because the KDF saved his people from destruction by the Undine. So he wasn't just assigned to play house.

trek21

Actually, in public, he merely acts like he's a Klingon warrior bored with conferences instead of battling, and who cares about the honor of the Empire (which is also likely part of his job). When alone with our character, he's not quite the same persona that he pretends to be

Which is more interesting imo

angrytarg

zipagat wrote: »

S'tass actually says in the new FE that the reason he serves is because the KDF saved his people from destruction by the Undine. So he wasn't just assigned to play house.

I get that some Gorn might serve gladly, but why would assign the post of ambassador to a member of a recently annexed kingdom - I just can't see that happening, really.

angrytarg

trek21 wrote: »

Actually, in public, he merely acts like he's a Klingon warrior bored with conferences instead of battling, and who cares about the honor of the Empire (which is also likely part of his job). When alone with our character, he's not quite the same persona that he pretends to be

Which is more interesting imo

That's my point. A Klingon's honour means taking pride in your duty, be it warrior or ambassador - playing "hurr durr me warrior" in the public is not a wise move, at all. I can't see this character doing much good for either side. If he would speak for the Gorn and the Empire clients would remain some form of semi-autonomy I wouldn't have a problem.

trek21

angrytarg wrote: »

I get that some Gorn might serve gladly, but why would assign the post of ambassador to a member of a recently annexed kingdom - I just can't see that happening, really.

Well, if a Gorn proved himself honorable (and competent), he'd be just as likely a candidate as a Klingon. There'd be some resistance, no doubt, but if he still worked for it, S'taass could have achieved easily (as easy as can be in a Klingon culture)

angrytarg wrote: »

That's my point. A Klingon's honour means taking pride in your duty, be it warrior or ambassador - playing "hurr durr me warrior" in the public is not a wise move, at all. I can't see this character doing much good for either side. If he would speak for the Gorn and the Empire clients would remain some form of semi-autonomy I wouldn't have a problem.

But he isn't a Klingon, merely a member of a Klingon society. So no doubts he has to adher to the honor code, even if on the inside, he really doesn't care one way or the other

In other words, taking necessary steps to advance his career, for one reason or another. Don't we all do similar things?

zipagat

angrytarg wrote: »

I get that some Gorn might serve gladly, but why would assign the post of ambassador to a member of a recently annexed kingdom - I just can't see that happening, really.

This is STO, implausibility doesn't enter into it. Besides a Gorn still makes a better ambassador than the average Klingon just look at the way Captain Koren is for proof of that.

It also sends a message that the attack on the Gorn wasn't just for land or resources but to actually remove a threat. letting S'tass and his people serve is a subtle reminder that the KDF aren't just oppressing the Gorn.

feiqa

zipagat wrote: »

This is STO, implausibility doesn't enter into it. Besides a Gorn still makes a better ambassador than the average Klingon just look at the way Captain Koren is for proof of that.

It also sends a message that the attack on the Gorn wasn't just for land or resources but to actually remove a threat. letting S'tass and his people serve is a subtle reminder that the KDF aren't just oppressing the Gorn.

An excellent point. My only eye roll at Stass is his need to turn warriors of any rank into spies for him. K'men should be asking you to make clandestine scans, etc. Not the ambassador.

bitemepwe

We have seen plenty of Klingon doing diplomatic duty in the movies and shows. To assume they all behave in the WH40k orc fashion is a disservice to the KDF.

As to Sstass and his role, I have no issues. He has grown on me and he upholds the Empire well enough. The only thing he said that I did not like was the veiled threat he made about the Gorn would not support the Empire anymore if the Klingons did not support the fed Undine war.

orangeitis

angrytarg wrote: »

If you send a Cryptic/STO Klingon who keeps swinging is Bat'leth grunting "Hurr Durr, Me want SMASH!" you are probably right.

This isn't about being a "Cryptic/STO Klingon" or otherwise.

starswordc

Honestly, it's just another symptom of the fact that Cryptic can't keep straight in their heads that not everybody in the KDF is a frakking Klingon*, and that not enough time has passed in-universe for that level of cultural osmosis to take place.

* Also true Fedside with the storyline seemingly convinced that you're a human even when you're not.

xablis

Personally I feel this ambassadorial role would have been better served/manipulated by an Orion or even a Lethean than a Gorn. With the aforementioned options they would be better serving the Empire with a bit more subtlety.

zipagat

xablis wrote: »

Personally I feel this ambassadorial role would have been better served/manipulated by an Orion or even a Lethean than a Gorn. With the aforementioned options they would be better serving the Empire with a bit more subtlety.

I wouldn't think J'empok would trust an Orion when they might undermine the empires interest, and Letheans aren't considered proper citizens of the empire for the most part.

shpoks

starswordc wrote: »

Honestly, it's just another symptom of the fact that Cryptic can't keep straight in their heads that not everybody in the KDF is a frakking Klingon*, and that not enough time has passed in-universe for that level of cultural osmosis to take place.

* Also true Fedside with the storyline seemingly convinced that you're a human even when you're not.

It's not that they can't keep it straight in their heads, it's more like they don't want to bother investing time and effort in changing dialogues per species when they could just pass it like they are doing it so far.

xablis wrote: »

Personally I feel this ambassadorial role would have been better served/manipulated by an Orion or even a Lethean than a Gorn. With the aforementioned options they would be better serving the Empire with a bit more subtlety.

The Gorn have a strong concept of honor and seem to value that trait within their society. Might have something to do with who J'mpok thinks to be honorable, as honor is valued as well in the Klingon society.

Also it's a nice "in yo' face" moment when sending a representative of the species that you were accused of illegally invading testifies that you actually saved their society.

starswordc

shpoks wrote: »

It's not that they can't keep it straight in their heads, it's more like they don't want to bother investing time and effort in changing dialogues per species when they could just pass it like they are doing it so far.

Comes down to the same thing: My Lethean babbling about honor and spamming tlhIngan Hol when according to the flavor text he's in it for the latinum, my Bajoran getting no acknowledgment of the crinkles on her nose in Hathon, and my Republic Romulan getting treated remarkably civilly by that RSE ambassador on Vulcan.

tpalelena

bitemepwe wrote: »

We have seen plenty of Klingon doing diplomatic duty in the movies and shows. To assume they all behave in the WH40k orc fashion is a disservice to the KDF.

As to Sstass and his role, I have no issues. He has grown on me and he upholds the Empire well enough. The only thing he said that I did not like was the veiled threat he made about the Gorn would not support the Empire anymore if the Klingons did not support the fed Undine war.

Ya think da boyz kant be ...deeplooomatik? Me iz thinkin da boyz need to teach ya some mannerz! WAAAGH!

Now orks aside, a Gorn can be an ambassador as pointed out. Either to prove that the Klingons conquered them to "save them" from the Undine, or because the said gorn was skilled and ambitious, traits the Klingons do encourage.

deaftravis05

Klingons consider what they're doing glorious. That lawyer on DS9? Now that's a lawyer I'd be afraid of pissing off. He did his job and fought it with honour.

The ambassador does it as a service for his people, and yes Ambassadors do secret missions to gather intel to get leverage at the table.

jellico1

A Orion Female

Would have been the best Ambassador for the Empire

deaftravis05

jellico1 wrote: »

A Orion Female

Would have been the best Ambassador for the Empire

No. Orions do not fit under the concept of the honourable Klingon.


Gorns are more like the Klingons than the Orions.

f9thaceshigh

I got the impression from his first appearance in "Second Wave" that S'Tass was really given the job because J'mpok doesn't really care for diplomacy. Sort of a "meh, the lizard can do it."

rgzarcher

xablis wrote: »

Personally I feel this ambassadorial role would have been better served/manipulated by an Orion or even a Lethean than a Gorn. With the aforementioned options they would be better serving the Empire with a bit more subtlety.

Sure, because everyone would feel perfectly find having a telepathic vampire or pheromone enslaver in the room when negotiating.

There is a reason the Federation uses Vulcans, Trill and humans most of the time as ambassadors. They are long lived and are known for being level headed as a result. With time comes experience, with experience come patience.

Lethean live *very* short lives, somewhere around 20 odd years if memory serves. Nobody is going to trust an Orion (on either side) and while not all Klingons are 'warhawks, they do tend to be short tempered, even the ones who are not warriors.

Gorn on the other hand are very much like the Vulcans in that they can live insanely long, they are inherently patient and observant, and while being perfectly peaceable their sheer size makes them intimidating 24/7.

Politics is still a battlefield, just a different type. You send the best you have to fight on any front, be it with words or violence. S'taass has proven himself to be very good at the game of politics and an effective instrument for the Klingon Empire. It even has the bonus of throwing off negotiations to a degree because he ISNT a Klingon. So anyone speaking with him will already know he's from a people that the Klingon's conquered, so talking to him about the interests of the Empire is like walking into a mine field.

He does a good job and its easy to see a number of factors that play into his favor.

deaftravis05

That is true, S'taass is unexpected. When you go into a Federation meeting, you know it's going to be a vulcan. You may get a trill or a human. You would not expect a Terralite, or an andorian, both species not known for tact - one will insult you and the other would challenge you...

You go to the Klingons, you expect an older klingon who, if you're not careful, may duel you. So you have to talk honourably, take care not to insult their honour and do not talk nicely. Basically you need to be able to hold your liquor, do well in a duel and talk tough. A gorn... you're not sure what to do...

captainpirko

i like s'taass. the gorn need more representation in this game, they're interesting. S'taass does seem a bit more impatient with the conference them he maybe should be, but thats partly due to the klingon perception of the federation that they are lazy and only ever want to talk. his impatience with them may be one of the few ways to get them to shut up.


now, can we address the real KDF member who's honestly completely annoying and obnoxious? Captain koren is the worst klingon i have had to fight with. i dare say Tovan is a better character. quite frankly koren has no back story worth a darn, is rude to everyone around her, even our characters who outrank her, and seems incapable of fighting. seriously, starfleet sends 2 ships to fight, and she's insulted. but the romulans send one scimitar and she says nothing? where's that massive romulan fleet D'tan promised would deal with the undine in both spheres? so instead of yelling at the romulans who have only sent one ship, and havent been attacked at all, Koren yells at the federation who send 2 ships (including you) at the start, then send the enterprise and backup later? its like she doesnt even notice the debris field around earth.

koren: "you honorless cowards! how dare you not send that flaming drydock control room to help in the fight! after all you have that whole ruined space station to defend earth should more undine show up!"

tuvok: "tis okay, we got some more stuff coming"

koren: "one ship? is that all? how dare you not send a fleet a mirandas pre-exploded to the fight? (or did they?)"

enterprise: "i'm the flagship of the bloody federation, what more do you want, a fleet a typhoons? fine! there, ya got 3. that basically doubles the number of ships we sent."


not to mention when i played this on my federation and koren gets all grumpy at the start of the battle like "2 ships? thats all?" i REEAALLLY wanted to say "***** plz, we sent one ship too many. >.>"

shpoks

f9thaceshigh wrote: »

I got the impression from his first appearance in "Second Wave" that S'Tass was really given the job because J'mpok doesn't really care for diplomacy. Sort of a "meh, the lizard can do it."

LMAO!!! :P

/10chars.

deaftravis05

J'mpok isn't one for diplomacy.

zipagat

Duh he is a Klingon, most of them are not fond of diplomacy.

Oh and Letheans aren't vampires FYI, just telepathic.

rmxiii

captainpirko wrote: »

i like s'taass. the gorn need more representation in this game, they're interesting. S'taass does seem a bit more impatient with the conference them he maybe should be, but thats partly due to the klingon perception of the federation that they are lazy and only ever want to talk. his impatience with them may be one of the few ways to get them to shut up.


now, can we address the real KDF member who's honestly completely annoying and obnoxious? Captain koren is the worst klingon i have had to fight with. i dare say Tovan is a better character. quite frankly koren has no back story worth a darn, is rude to everyone around her, even our characters who outrank her, and seems incapable of fighting. seriously, starfleet sends 2 ships to fight, and she's insulted. but the romulans send one scimitar and she says nothing? where's that massive romulan fleet D'tan promised would deal with the undine in both spheres? so instead of yelling at the romulans who have only sent one ship, and havent been attacked at all, Koren yells at the federation who send 2 ships (including you) at the start, then send the enterprise and backup later? its like she doesnt even notice the debris field around earth.

koren: "you honorless cowards! how dare you not send that flaming drydock control room to help in the fight! after all you have that whole ruined space station to defend earth should more undine show up!"

tuvok: "tis okay, we got some more stuff coming"

koren: "one ship? is that all? how dare you not send a fleet a mirandas pre-exploded to the fight? (or did they?)"

enterprise: "i'm the flagship of the bloody federation, what more do you want, a fleet a typhoons? fine! there, ya got 3. that basically doubles the number of ships we sent."


not to mention when i played this on my federation and koren gets all grumpy at the start of the battle like "2 ships? thats all?" i REEAALLLY wanted to say "***** plz, we sent one ship too many. >.>"

S'taass I find intresting and the more we find out about him and deal with him the more I like him. Sure he may be for Gorn back to being independant, but he knows that not viable now and pushes to increase the standing of the Gorn within the KDF. He may have his own agenda, but he dosent betray hiscurrent standing at all which is very nice.

Now as for Koren the more I have to deal with her, the more annoying she gets. Hell was hoping she would actually say something nice when do to defend Qo'nos on my KDF, but nope, I dont't even recall her acknowlding me and called the USS Voyager an outdated relic. Consindering she called an Intrepid class that and my Fed flys an Excelsior class, which is ancient compared to an Intrepid, almost makes me wonder how much insulting she would if she had dialog for using that old ship.

deaftravis05

zipagat wrote: »

Duh he is a Klingon, most of them are not fond of diplomacy.

Oh and Letheans aren't vampires FYI, just telepathic.

Actually they suck your soul... Bashier on ds9 anyone? Him growing old?

holyknight22

S'taass is actually the most logical choice for the KDF to send on any diplomatic mission. First, he is the only KDF Ambassador that shows up repeatedly in that function. So far in the KDF we have three Ambassadors.

Ambassador Worf
Ambassador S'taass
and the KDF Ambassador that gets saved by Temer.

Worf only shows up as an Ambassador in the "Sphere of Influence' mission, but only because of his knowledge of the Iconian Gateways.

The other Klingon Ambassador does not show up again at all in the story line.

S'taass on the other hand is quite busy, besides being a key member in the KDF-Rom Alliance.

He is shown is overall command (mission giver) for the KDF Ops against the True Way and Mirror Federation. He is sent to negotiate a treaty against the Borg Incursions and saves the lives of the the Deferi, Cardassian, and Federation delegations in the Confederance room from the Jem'hedar.

I think he is more than qualified to speak for the KDF.